Third year sucks.

[VincentAdultman]

Seriously. Now that I'm halfway done (Family, OB, Surgery) I finally have time to look back on the past 5 months and come to full realization how much they sucked (except family...but little chance I'll pick that as my career.)

So, basically, my grade on each rotation is purely subjective? That it has less to do with how much I actually know than it does how much I pretend to like that particulart field? SWEET!

And I can work my ass off for 13 hours, sacrafice all my free time, and guarantee myself a mediocre shelf score, and earn myself an "S" for my trouble? AMAZING!

And when I go into the hospital, the time I spent actually LEARNING is greatly overshadowed by the time served as some douchebag mid level's bandage jockey? AWESOME!

And then there's my fellow students, especially certain fourth years who feel its their duty to scrub in on all the cases, give you assignments, and ask you pimp questions in front of the attending. Seriously, I get to make these future residents look good by making myself a total ass. What an honor!


Seriously? F#%% medical school. I should have been an accountant.

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[Telemachus]

You've gotten through the most demoralizing part of 3rd year (in my opinion that's OB and surg). Things should get better, especially schedule-wise. Just keep as positive of an attitude as possible.....

 

[VincentAdultman]

You've gotten through the most demoralizing part of 3rd year (in my opinion that's OB and surg). Things should get better, especially schedule-wise. Just keep as positive of an attitude as possible.....

That's the good part I think....I have Pediatrics and Psych next, and I've never heard anything bad said about the hospital where I'm doing peds.

Free breakfast on Fridays!

 

[Hurricane]

That's the good part I think....I have Pediatrics and Psych next, and I've never heard anything bad said about the hospital where I'm doing peds.

Free breakfast on Fridays!

Oh god, the hospital where we do peds has free breakfast and lunch every single day. I got fat on that rotation...

 

[imtiaz]

sorry to hear your experience sucked that badly. 3rd year is one of the hardest years, but once you become a 4th year its easy peasy. i basically go in whenever i feel like it, its great. everyone knows you dont give a s**t. hang in there.

 

[dynx]

Seriously. Now that I'm halfway done (Family, OB, Surgery) I finally have time to look back on the past 5 months and come to full realization how much they sucked (except family...but little chance I'll pick that as my career.)

So, basically, my grade on each rotation is purely subjective? That it has less to do with how much I actually know than it does how much I pretend to like that particulart field? SWEET!

And I can work my ass off for 13 hours, sacrafice all my free time, and guarantee myself a mediocre shelf score, and earn myself an "S" for my trouble? AMAZING!

And when I go into the hospital, the time I spent actually LEARNING is greatly overshadowed by the time served as some douchebag mid level's bandage jockey? AWESOME!

And then there's my fellow students, especially certain fourth years who feel its their duty to scrub in on all the cases, give you assignments, and ask you pimp questions in front of the attending. Seriously, I get to make these future residents look good by making myself a total ass. What an honor!


Seriously? F#%% medical school. I should have been an accountant.

This is a public service announcment not directed entirely at you:

Stop crying. I swear to god I have never heard as much bitching as I have in the past 6 months. 3rd year is not that bad. The hardest part is listening to all my classmates complain about how hard it is...if you STFU and just do your damn job (which consists of learning and knowing your patients) it's a lot easier than most employment. So hike up your skirt and plow through. Oh, and while your at it, get a f*cking back bone, you don't want to be pimped or scutted by a fourth year open your damn mouth and correct the situation. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but at my school we have small groups where we all get to vent our frustrations and i've had to listen to 3/4ths of the members start crying (literally) cause someone yelled at them..the people you are caring for may be DYING how about a little god damn perspective. Here's some news for you all:
-Some people are dinguses
-Some people will yell at you
-Sometimes you dont get credit for your hard work
-Sometimes you don't get 8 hours of sleep
-Sometimes you're not smart enough to honor a shelf
You know what doesn't help the situation? Pissing and moaning. Figure out why they yelled or treated you like crap (yes this may involve mustering up enough balls to ask) then evaluate the situation, if it was your fault, fix it, if not muster the confidence to let it slide off your back. Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance...you'll be much happier there then at the Mayo clinic where everyone will continue to pound you for being such a dumb ass. And you're still gonna make six figures. Yeah, life sucks.

Rant over.

 

[RookieRoo]

This is a public service announcment not directed entirely at you:

Stop crying. I swear to god I have never heard as much bitching as I have in the past 6 months. 3rd year is not that bad. The hardest part is listening to all my classmates complain about how hard it is...if you STFU and just do your damn job (which consists of learning and knowing your patients) it's a lot easier than most employment. So hike up your skirt and plow through. Oh, and while your at it, get a f*cking back bone, you don't want to be pimped or scutted by a fourth year open your damn mouth and correct the situation. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but at my school we have small groups where we all get to vent our frustrations and i've had to listen to 3/4ths of the members start crying (literally) cause someone yelled at them..the people you are caring for may be DYING how about a little god damn perspective. Here's some news for you all:
-Some people are dinguses
-Some people will yell at you
-Sometimes you dont get credit for your hard work
-Sometimes you don't get 8 hours of sleep
-Sometimes you're not smart enough to honor a shelf
You know what doesn't help the situation? Pissing and moaning. Figure out why they yelled or treated you like crap (yes this may involve mustering up enough balls to ask) then evaluate the situation, if it was your fault, fix it, if not muster the confidence to let it slide off your back. Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance...you'll be much happier there then at the Mayo clinic where everyone will continue to pound you for being such a dumb ass. And you're still gonna make six figures. Yeah, life sucks.

Rant over.

I don't know why you are so upset. The guy is just venting a little. We all need to do that from time to time especially in a stressful period such as 3rd year. As a physician or physician-to-be you should have a little more empathy for your peers. If you are perfect all the time and never get frustrated over anything, good for you! But some of us need to let of some steam sometimes and that is PERFECTLY NORMAL.

 

[p53]

I knew eventually you would make an insightful comment. Couldn't agree with you more on this.

JUST STFU and DO YOUR JOB.

This is a public service announcment not directed entirely at you:

Stop crying. I swear to god I have never heard as much bitching as I have in the past 6 months. 3rd year is not that bad. The hardest part is listening to all my classmates complain about how hard it is...if you STFU and just do your damn job (which consists of learning and knowing your patients) it's a lot easier than most employment. So hike up your skirt and plow through. Oh, and while your at it, get a f*cking back bone, you don't want to be pimped or scutted by a fourth year open your damn mouth and correct the situation. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but at my school we have small groups where we all get to vent our frustrations and i've had to listen to 3/4ths of the members start crying (literally) cause someone yelled at them..the people you are caring for may be DYING how about a little god damn perspective. Here's some news for you all:
-Some people are dinguses
-Some people will yell at you
-Sometimes you dont get credit for your hard work
-Sometimes you don't get 8 hours of sleep
-Sometimes you're not smart enough to honor a shelf
You know what doesn't help the situation? Pissing and moaning. Figure out why they yelled or treated you like crap (yes this may involve mustering up enough balls to ask) then evaluate the situation, if it was your fault, fix it, if not muster the confidence to let it slide off your back. Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance...you'll be much happier there then at the Mayo clinic where everyone will continue to pound you for being such a dumb ass. And you're still gonna make six figures. Yeah, life sucks.

Rant over.

 

[Telemachus]

-Some people are dinguses
-Some people will yell at you
-Sometimes you dont get credit for your hard work
-Sometimes you don't get 8 hours of sleep
-Sometimes you're not smart enough to honor a shelf
You know what doesn't help the situation? Pissing and moaning. Figure out why they yelled or treated you like crap (yes this may involve mustering up enough balls to ask) then evaluate the situation, if it was your fault, fix it, if not muster the confidence to let it slide off your back. Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance...you'll be much happier there then at the Mayo clinic where everyone will continue to pound you for being such a dumb ass. And you're still gonna make six figures. Yeah, life sucks.

This is incredibly useful and direct advice. Heed it.

 

[Zuwie]

Seriously. Now that I'm halfway done (Family, OB, Surgery) I finally have time to look back on the past 5 months and come to full realization how much they sucked (except family...but little chance I'll pick that as my career.)

So, basically, my grade on each rotation is purely subjective? That it has less to do with how much I actually know than it does how much I pretend to like that particulart field? SWEET!

And I can work my ass off for 13 hours, sacrafice all my free time, and guarantee myself a mediocre shelf score, and earn myself an "S" for my trouble? AMAZING!

And when I go into the hospital, the time I spent actually LEARNING is greatly overshadowed by the time served as some douchebag mid level's bandage jockey? AWESOME!

And then there's my fellow students, especially certain fourth years who feel its their duty to scrub in on all the cases, give you assignments, and ask you pimp questions in front of the attending. Seriously, I get to make these future residents look good by making myself a total ass. What an honor!


Seriously? F#%% medical school. I should have been an accountant.

Dude, you really got it tough first semester! Anyone would cringe if they had Surgery and OB back-to-back. I started with Peds and Psych and got a much better prospective on the 3rd year befor getting to Surgery, which was absolutely brutal. Surgery residents tend to be bitter, overworked and sleep-deprived, they are disrespected by attendings and some are disillusioned about their specialty choice. Of course, they vent ther frustrations on M3s. Most Peds and Psych residents are nice and absolutely love what they are doing. Also in Psych you will have plenty of time to study on your own and get to know your patients. You'll get to the hospital at 8:30-9 and leave at 1 or 2 (sometomes 3 or 4 and that's gonna be "late"). And none of that "go ask a nurse for some four-by-fours" crap. You apparently also have Internal Medicine coming up, which is bread and butter of medicine and most of the learning will be done there. You see, third year is like a zebra, unfortunately you got one long dark stripe, but it will get better. Just celebrate being done with the hardest part of third year!

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

And you're still gonna make six figures.

this is all that matters.

it's the way i see it.

just pay me.

 

[tigershark]

Ob/Gyn was the low point of my med school career...you've made it through the toughest part of third year.

And always remember that the crap you are exposed to third year is nothing like what your actual private practice life will be like.

 

[Entei]

Third year suxx0rz, and OB/Gyn was definitely the low point so far... but peds and psych weren't that peachy either.

You shouldn't put any stock into my opinion, though, because if I had it my way, third year would be 12 months of surgery.

 

[sacrament]

I like that nobody can even complain on an anonymous internet message board without being called a whiner. That's medicine for you.

 

[raspberry swirl]

dont hate me when i say this, but my 3rd year has been awesome so far (IM, OB, Peds, Rads, FP done, currently in the middle of Surgery). but ive been super super lucky with my rotations (and i know this, and i thank god for it every day). i think the reason why things have gone pretty swimmingly for me is that i haven't worked a whole lot with residents, interns, and other students. I was able to pick affiliates that are community hospitals where its just you and a chill doc or two, taking care of patients and hanging out, for the majority of my rotations. there is a point to me saying this- most of my rotations have been sweet because i haven't really had to worry about anyone but myself. i haven't had to worry about other residents, interns and students who are trying to prove something at others' expenses, subconciously or otherwise.

now i understand that not everyone has the luxury of where and with whom you rotate with, but the reality is, wrap yourself up in a little bubble and dont even worry about the other people. pretend its just you and the list of tasks you have to accomplish for the day. just try to convince yourself that those other students or crazy stressed out interns dont really matter, and figure out exactly what you need to do to get what you want out of the rotation. find out on the first day who will be filling out your evaluation (not who will be signing it, but who will actually be filling it out) and remember to never be late, always seem interested, and be honest with what you know and dont know.

i had another 3rd year student pimp me once in front of an attending. for 3 seconds, i was furious. then i reminded myself that i dont give a **** what that student thinks of me, nor was that particularly attending going to be evaluating me. i just smiled and said, "really, im not sure. what do you think?" and proceeded to ignore him and make fun of him in my head for the rest of the rotation. i go the library or the cafe by myself sometimes, rather than sit in the residents lounge and listen to people bitch (it stresses me out). if you take my approach, be aware that some people may think you are aloof or spacey, but i am much happier taking care of what i need to, irregardless of what all the crazy chickens around me are doing. take thing one step at a time, and know that you will get through it. i occassionally need to tell myself that it could be worse, and if i keep complaining, karma will most likely make it so . . . good luck!

ps i know everything i said you probably know, but you were just having a rough go of it. so please do not think i am being condescending. i understand one's need to vent- i need to do it often! you are always welcome to pm those of us who are more understanding so that you dont get yelled at by the posters who so obviously have their **** so together they can't understand needing to whine a little

 

[me454555]

3rd year SUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to rotate through a bunch of field you're not interested in and get bitched at for things that aren't your fault. Just finished a surgery rotation, a field in which I have zero interest in after this month is over. Get there @ 6 round on 15 pts in 45 minutes. How am I supposed to know anything about anyone when we go through every pt so quickly? Next, Scrub up for surgeries of which I stand around doing nothing but holding retractors and cutting sutures. This of course leads to me getting yelled at for not retracting well or not cutting the sutures right. We're done w/surgeries by 5 o clock when we round w/the attendings till about 6:30. Since I have to be up at 5:30 the next day, I'm usually asleep by 10:30. When am I supposed to find time to read and learn stuff?

Once I actually asked my resident if I could hit the library rather than scrub a case, this did not go over well at all and of course led to me being called lazy. Whats the point of watching when you have no clue whats goin on?

The worst part of surgery is the call. They make you stay overnight to do consults, rectals, and any other bitch work the residents just dont want to do. In the end you put in 66hrs/week, feel like a gofer, and dont get paid 1 dime.

I've worked at real jobs before and this is totally different.
1) You don't get paid
2) If anyone was treated the way a medical student was at his/her job, there would be a lawsuit against the company
3) You can always find a different job if your job sucks.
4) You're actually supposed to be learning, not being a scutmonkey.

 

[sophiejane]

Raspberryswirl has some excellent advice.

I think my 1st semester was so good because of the places I was able to choose to rotate. I had a great 8 weeks in family medicine at my rural site, lots of hands-on, lots of independence. Then I went to an inner city hospital in a totally different partof the country for medicine and had a completely different but equally excellent experience. Surgery was at a smaller regional hospital with only a FP program--got lots of hands on experience and scrubbed as first assist on over 50 cases. I've had a good balance of time to read and taking care of patients, and I've never been on call past 11 pm.

I know my experience is not the norm, but I wanted to share a different experience.

Even though the sites I've been at have been very good and the people all very nice (except some of the nurses in the Bronx!), I think a lot of my happiness this year has come from my attitude. I don't think about not getting paid because I don't know enough about medicine yet to be paid to do it. I also haven't been scutted out at all, so I might feel differently if I had. But I also go into each rotation excited about what I can learn. I put in extra time and effort and ask lots of questions and soak in as much as possible. When I get chastised for not knowing something or not doing something right, I chalk it up to inexperience and don't take it personally, and I move on.

In the end, it's about learning as much as you possibly can.

Having said that, there sure is a lot of spirit-breaking on this site. It's no wonder so many attendings turn out to be a*&holes...they are just continuing the tradition of being rude and unsupportive that they were taught by their fellow students and attendings when they were in medical school.

It's the holiday season, folks. Let's try to play nice.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

people who call others whiners are TOO COOL

 

[sophiejane]

Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance.

I wasn't aware that not "honoring" on a shelf exam would mean you are considered middle-of-the-road and that it seals your fate to go to a mediocre residency program.

Not everyone takes shelf exams. My understanding was that residency applications are a "whole package" sort of thing. I seriously doubt that an otherwise strong candidate with good board scores and good letters of recommendation would be tossed in the mediocre pile because they didn't get 90th percentile on a shelf exam.

Look, there's enough pressure in this game as it is. No need to make proclamations about people's future that you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[tigershark]

I wasn't aware that not "honoring" on a shelf exam would mean you are considered middle-of-the-road and that it seals your fate to go to a mediocre residency program.

Not everyone takes shelf exams. My understanding was that residency applications are a "whole package" sort of thing. I seriously doubt that an otherwise strong candidate with good board scores and good letters of recommendation would be tossed in the mediocre pile because they didn't get 90th percentile on a shelf exam.

Look, there's enough pressure in this game as it is. No need to make proclamations about people's future that you know absolutely nothing about.

There is some truth to what he says though....Many times I saw people busting ass on the wards only to end up with a P/HP because they neglected studying for the shelf, while I would usually end up with honors by focusing entirely on the shelf and doing the least amount of ward work as I could without being labled a slacker.

 

[sophiejane]

At our school it's P or F on rotations. You get a letter from the dean in your file only if you are >90th percentile on the shelf, and the shelf is only 25% of your grade.

 

[pgg]

When I get chastised for not knowing something or not doing something right, I chalk it up to inexperience and don't take it personally, and I move on.

In the end, it's about learning as much as you possibly can.

Well said.

The only thing that should matter is the transfer of knowledge from those who have it to those who don't. A fragile ego is an obstacle to personal and professional growth. (This doesn't mean one should feel obligated to tolerate abuse, just that thick skin and a sense of perspective are helpful.)


To the OP - my first 3rd year rotation was on general surgery with an incredibly malignant chief resident (later that year, he was actually barred from further interaction with medcial students). I seriously questioned whether or medicine was right for me every day of that 6 week rotation. It sucked.

Looking back though, several years later, I have to admit that I learned more during those six sleepless demoralizing weeks than I did on any other rotation.

It's nice to be happy. It's more important to learn as much as possible while you're a student and have no real responsibility for the lives of patients. Take it all in stride. Choose to expose your ignorance rather than conceal it - because when the pimping and yelling is done, what matters most is how much you've learned. Don't take it personally when your mistakes are publicly criticized by some ass of a resident ... it's the MS3's job to be ignorant.

I wouldn't take any crap from a marginally less ignorant 4th year, though. Pull him aside and privately ask him to stop pimping you ... and take some comfort in knowing that the attendings probably have as much contempt for MS4s pimping MS3s as you do.

 

[IlliniEMT1]

"Stop crying. I swear to god I have never heard as much bitching as I have in the past 6 months."

Awesome. I think I said exact same thing to one of my depressed patients the other week. Ive been sick before and I didnt go bitching to everyone about it! Good thing that all that crap about selecting compassionate individuals to be doctors is bull. What we need is some docs that will berate people back to health.

"And I can work my ass off for 13 hours, sacrafice all my free time, and guarantee myself a mediocre shelf score, and earn myself an "S" for my trouble? AMAZING!"

Yeah totally - someday when I look at all of the framed report cards full of H's on my office wall I would hate to have an ugly little 'S' in there. Thank god some people undersand what this job is all about - When I start my own practice, I would never want to work my ass off all day for my patients only to have them award me a measley little 'S' when they die. I bet they woulda lived too, if they had a doctor that went to an ivy league residency program.

[/sarcasm]

 

[VincentAdultman]

So like, when you see a thread entitled "third year sucks," did you NOT think it was going to be venting? Hint: DON'T READ THE POST if you have a problem with the content!

I love "Internet toughguys" like p53 and dynx because you know they are exactly as tough in real life as they are in cyberspace.

Maybe you should be doing something more productive, like calling out people you think lied about their Step One scores on the USMLE forum?

 

[dizzypie]

IlliniEMT1 : seriously thanks for the laugh, to think I was starting to lose faith in my colleagues...

 

[dynx]

So like, when you see a thread entitled "third year sucks," did you NOT think it was going to be venting? Hint: DON'T READ THE POST if you have a problem with the content!

I love "Internet toughguys" like p53 and dynx because you know they are exactly as tough in real life as they are in cyberspace.

Maybe you should be doing something more productive, like calling out people you think lied about their Step One scores on the USMLE forum?

So like, when you post a thread did you NOT think you were gonna get feedback? Hint: DON'T POST THE THREAD if you have a problem with feedback.

 

[Makaka]

How realistic is it to maintain or initiate a romantic relationship your third year?

 

[VincentAdultman]

So like, when you post a thread did you NOT think you were gonna get feedback? Hint: DON'T POST THE THREAD if you have a problem with feedback.

I wouldn't call it "feedback" as much as "bitching about topics I don't particularly like." But if it gives you pleasure to act better than everyone on an internet message board then have at it.

As far as relationships..

I think it becomes significantly harder after the first two years because time constraints become a much bigger factor. It's not impossible, though. Probably best if the person in question is another 3rd year cause they'd be better able to relate to the crap you experience on a daily basis.

 

[AtomKr]

I've worked at real jobs before and this is totally different.
1) You don't get paid
2) If anyone was treated the way a medical student was at his/her job, there would be a lawsuit against the company
3) You can always find a different job if your job sucks.
4) You're actually supposed to be learning, not being a scutmonkey.

The really sad thing is not only are we not paid, we're PAYING.

 

[MediCane2006]

This is a public service announcment not directed entirely at you:

Stop crying. I swear to god I have never heard as much bitching as I have in the past 6 months. 3rd year is not that bad. The hardest part is listening to all my classmates complain about how hard it is...if you STFU and just do your damn job (which consists of learning and knowing your patients) it's a lot easier than most employment. So hike up your skirt and plow through. Oh, and while your at it, get a f*cking back bone, you don't want to be pimped or scutted by a fourth year open your damn mouth and correct the situation. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but at my school we have small groups where we all get to vent our frustrations and i've had to listen to 3/4ths of the members start crying (literally) cause someone yelled at them..the people you are caring for may be DYING how about a little god damn perspective. Here's some news for you all:
-Some people are dinguses
-Some people will yell at you
-Sometimes you dont get credit for your hard work
-Sometimes you don't get 8 hours of sleep
-Sometimes you're not smart enough to honor a shelf
You know what doesn't help the situation? Pissing and moaning. Figure out why they yelled or treated you like crap (yes this may involve mustering up enough balls to ask) then evaluate the situation, if it was your fault, fix it, if not muster the confidence to let it slide off your back. Work hard, drink coffee and study more if you want to honor a shelf. If you cant do this, congrats you're gonna be evaluated as a midddle of the road candidate and go to a residency where they expect middle of the road performance...you'll be much happier there then at the Mayo clinic where everyone will continue to pound you for being such a dumb ass. And you're still gonna make six figures. Yeah, life sucks.

Rant over.

This just made my top ten list of SDN posts.

Bottom line is, when you're in the hospital as a third-year, you are thrust into a very, very high-pressure, high-stress environment, where (especially at first) the tasks and skills are unfamiliar and can be very intimidating. So if you're smart, you fly by the seat of your pants, keep your head down, work hard at the things you CAN do, and by being enthusiastic and a hard worker, demonstrate your interest in learning. Unless your residents are COMPLETE jerks, they will usually pick up on this and make sure that you're learning along the way (and if you're not, you need to be proactive and ask questions). Put yourself in the shoes of an exhausted, stressed-out resident or intern on a surgery or Ob-gyn service - the med student that acts bored, complains, doesn't show up, or (worst of all) slows the team down is going to get ignored.

Is this fair? Sure, if you consider that the goal of the MS-3 and 4 years is to prepare you for the intense pace of internship. Do you think that once intern year rolls around you will suddenly NOT have to take BS consults at 2 AM on call nights? That you won't have residents scut you out? Or that you will magically have more time to read? (and unless you're planning on doing derm or pathology, you will have to do an intern year). Yes, third year can be exhausting, frustrating, and challenging. But you need to figure out a way to handle the tough times and still excel if you want to continue to be successful.

 

[footcramp]

Bottom line is, when you're in the hospital as a third-year, you are thrust into a very, very high-pressure, high-stress environment

I have a hard time understanding how talking to a patient for 5 minutes in the morning and writing a BS note for the day could be considered high pressure or high stress. Or retracting for several hours out of the day. That's what most of 3rd year is. Then at the end of your 1-2 months you take usually one test, which is not too hard to pass as long as you study at least 1/10th the amount you did second year. To me that is not high stress at all.

 

[sacrament]

I have a hard time understanding how talking to a patient for 5 minutes in the morning and writing a BS note for the day could be considered high pressure or high stress. Or retracting for several hours out of the day. That's what most of 3rd year is. Then at the end of your 1-2 months you take usually one test, which is not too hard to pass as long as you study at least 1/10th the amount you did second year. To me that is not high stress at all.

No kidding, third year is not particularly "high stress." I suppose getting pimped can be sort of stressful, but only until you learn to not give a sh1t. Being sleep-deprived on long-hour rotations can be stressful in a sense, but you get used to that, too. Mostly I was just bored and irritated.

 

[CANES2006]

I suppose getting pimped can be sort of stressful, but only until you learn to not give a sh1t. Mostly I was just bored and irritated.

Ditto.

 

[MediCane2006]

I should probably clarify. When I mentioned a high-stress working environment, I was trying to convey that the residents and interns who are working around you (especially in the surgical subspecialties) have a lot more on their mind than whether their third-year med student is being sufficiently entertained. Quite frankly, nothing about the words "high-stress" is applicable to the third-year medical student experience.

 

[SBlanc]

I have a hard time understanding how talking to a patient for 5 minutes in the morning and writing a BS note for the day could be considered high pressure or high stress. Or retracting for several hours out of the day. That's what most of 3rd year is. Then at the end of your 1-2 months you take usually one test, which is not too hard to pass as long as you study at least 1/10th the amount you did second year. To me that is not high stress at all.

I'm currently on my surgery core rotation and feeling really stressed... I guess to me, the stress stems not so much from the actual work I'm expected to do, but from the constant overwhelming sense of not knowing what I'm supposed to be doing at any given moment. Like am I striking the right balance between asking intelligent questions about the procedure without being annoying... or even more, every question I think to ask, I have to stop and wonder if asking it will make me sound sharp or just like I haven't read enough...

At first I was totally confused by the down time I got on surgery, and I'm just starting to get comfortable with using that time to go study by myself. For some reason I always have the sinking feeling that I should be checking on someone's labs or reading a radiology report or something... I think in general perhaps I have always just lived in such fear of surgery that I can't possibly accept that perhaps it doesn't have to be as bad as I thought. I also think that reading all these "tips for the surgery core rotation" books (like the first part of Surgical Recall, or the stuff in First Aid for the Wards) definitely scared me... Anyway, those are my thoughts so far. I keep complaining about the long hours (typically 5a-7p) and barrages of pimping, etc., but in truth there is very little expected of the med student on surgery in terms of actual "work"--it's just hard to come to grips with that fact!

 

[IlliniEMT1]

Wow. I can't believe so many people who are going to be doctors have such narrow-minded ways of dealing with other peoples emotions. You really think you can judge whether someones response to a situation is appropriate like its some kind of algebra problem? Ok, so we all have the same X things to do as third years + I didnt think it was that bad = anyone who complains is a baby?
NEWSFLASH - whether someone is happy or not has very little to do with some objective measure of their life stressors, and even if it did, people have alot going on in their lives OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL (remember that?) and it is often a tough time for families, friends and relationships as well.
Everyone has times when they are upset by something that would seem insignificant by someone else. THATS NOT THE POINT. If youre stressed because your mother is very ill, does that mean some orphan can tell you to quit bitching and STFU because they lost their parents?
I think we would all make better doctors and friends if we stopped trying to judge whether someones frustration or unhappiness is justified given their circumstances, and spent all that energy listening(remember that??) and helping them deal with their problems.
Are most med-students' frustrations rooted in the pressure they put on themselves, rather than their environment? Maybe so, but that doesnt mean its not a legitimate way to feel.
So I say if you cry because you were pimped or yelled at by an attending: be proud of yourself, youve managed to retain your humanity - many of your fellow medical students have not. Find a friend to comfort you. If they tell you to quit whining - congrats! you have just found a surgeon(J/K!!) But, if they constructively help you to find a new perspective on things and make you feel better - congrats! you have found someone who will make a great doctor someday.
Robots make bad doctors.

 

[sophiejane]

Wow. I can't believe so many people who are going to be doctors have such narrow-minded ways of dealing with other peoples emotions. You really think you can judge whether someones response to a situation is appropriate like its some kind of algebra problem? Ok, so we all have the same X things to do as third years + I didnt think it was that bad = anyone who complains is a baby?
NEWSFLASH - whether someone is happy or not has very little to do with some objective measure of their life stressors, and even if it did, people have alot going on in their lives OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL (remember that?) and it is often a tough time for families, friends and relationships as well.
Everyone has times when they are upset by something that would seem insignificant by someone else. THATS NOT THE POINT. If youre stressed because your mother is very ill, does that mean some orphan can tell you to quit bitching and STFU because they lost their parents?
I think we would all make better doctors and friends if we stopped trying to judge whether someones frustration or unhappiness is justified given their circumstances, and spent all that energy listening(remember that??) and helping them deal with their problems.
Are most med-students' frustrations rooted in the pressure they put on themselves, rather than their environment? Maybe so, but that doesnt mean its not a legitimate way to feel.
So I say if you cry because you were pimped or yelled at by an attending: be proud of yourself, youve managed to retain your humanity - many of your fellow medical students have not. Find a friend to comfort you. If they tell you to quit whining - congrats! you have just found a surgeon(J/K!!) But, if they constructively help you to find a new perspective on things and make you feel better - congrats! you have found someone who will make a great doctor someday.
Robots make bad doctors.

BRAVO, Illini. So well said.

This just made MY top-ten list of best ever SDN posts.

And may neither I nor anyone I know and love have to ever be treated by some of the emotionally and socially ******ed individuals on this board.

 

[sophiejane]

I'm currently on my surgery core rotation and feeling really stressed... I guess to me, the stress stems not so much from the actual work I'm expected to do, but from the constant overwhelming sense of not knowing what I'm supposed to be doing at any given moment. Like am I striking the right balance between asking intelligent questions about the procedure without being annoying... or even more, every question I think to ask, I have to stop and wonder if asking it will make me sound sharp or just like I haven't read enough...

This is so true. Our Dean actually said basically the same thing to us at our little pre-clinicals pep talk last summer. On the one hand, it's great to not have to worry about screwing up because at least 4 doctors or residents will follow after you and do the exact same thing you just did or tried to do. On the other hand, you have to learn to navigate your way through all the social and logisitical landmines of the hospital world. The hierarchy, the schedule, the wondering what the hell you are supposed to be doing now. And in the midst of it, trying to sound smart and interested but not TOO smart or TOO eager.

And you are right--that's what's so stressful.

We've all been there, it's just that some are unwilling to admit they felt the exact same way you did, or just weren't able to articulate it so well.

Best of luck with surgery. Just when you get it all figured out, it'll be over...!

ps...and in case you haven't heard this yet: when a student is cutting a suture knot in the OR they have two choices: Too short, or too long.

 

[dynx]

So I say if you cry because you were pimped or yelled at by an attending: be proud of yourself, youve managed to retain your humanity - many of your fellow medical students have not.

Please, cut the crap. You make some good points but you over-shot the "reasonable" mark and landed in happy fluffy bunny land.

 

[pharmer]

Please, cut the crap. You make some good points but you over-shot the "reasonable" mark and landed in happy fluffy bunny land.

That just made my top 10 best SDN posts

 

[footcramp]

pretty soon someone is going to say that wetting your pants is retaining your humanity too

 

[IlliniEMT1]

pretty soon someone is going to say that being a jerk with a giant ego and a toughguy complex makes you a good doctor

seriously though, I totally understand what you mean. We had this girl in our class commit suicide last year, and I was just like - wow, thank god she didnt just go around blubblering all of her gross emotions all over me, anything is better than crying like a wittle baby - that would just make me nauseous. Luckily, I wasnt forced to *gasp* speak in a comforting manner!. Better to tough it out in silence like a good little soldier. Ugh! and then you should have seen all of the whiny little girly-girls at the memorial. I'm thinking we just replace all of our shelf exams with arm-wrestling contests - thin out their ranks a little.


... I guess I better watch it with those anti-surgeon comments...seem to irk the natives...

 

[footcramp]

there is no reason to applaud crying. if you cry you cry, whatever. people cry, that's ok. crying is often entirely appropriate. and those nearby can obviously comfort those who need it. but there's no need for an asshat nearby to say stupid things like "crying means you retained your humanity, unlike those other robots." why make crying out to be something to be glorified? it's as if not crying means you're somehow deficient. sorry, i refuse to cry over an attending yelling at me for not checking who the pt lives with at home. or because i can't retract well. or because i use too many abbreviations in my notes. if that makes me a "tough guy" then that says more about you than me.

 

[quideam]

AWESOME post...! Sorry about the classmate :-(

 

[VincentAdultman]

I just found out I high-passed surgery. I take back the original statement. Third year RULES.

 

[fang]

If they tell you to quit whining - congrats! you have just found a surgeon(J/K!!) But, if they constructively help you to find a new perspective on things and make you feel better - congrats! you have found someone who will make a great doctor someday.
Robots make bad doctors.

Ah, the standard "robot" analogy again. Just because we can marshal our emotions for a period of time doesn't make us "robots". I can get through a lot of crap during the day, come home and hold my cat for half an hour, call a friend and vent and feel just fine the next day, sine crying.

 

[dynx]

pretty soon someone is going to say that being a jerk with a giant ego and a toughguy complex makes you a good doctor

I dont think a giant ego or tough guy complex makes a good doctor either. But I do know I have never seen a "good doctor" that pisses all over themselves every time someone looks at them cross-eyed....but Im sure you've seen several.

seriously though, I totally understand what you mean. We had this girl in our class commit suicide last year, and I was just like - wow, thank god she didnt just go around blubblering all of her gross emotions all over me, anything is better than crying like a wittle baby - that would just make me nauseous. Luckily, I wasnt forced to *gasp* speak in a comforting manner!. Better to tough it out in silence like a good little soldier.

Better to have a solid sense of self worth...but I bet that option never occured to you.

Ugh! and then you should have seen all of the whiny little girly-girls at the memorial. I'm thinking we just replace all of our shelf exams with arm-wrestling contests - thin out their ranks a little.

From the story above I'd say your school is doing a decent job of this allready.

... I guess I better watch it with those anti-surgeon comments...seem to irk the natives...

Not irked, just trying to help. Unlike some people on this thread I don't take the small stuff to heart.

 

[IlliniEMT1]

if you cry you cry, whatever. people cry, that's ok. crying is often entirely appropriate. and those nearby can obviously comfort those who need it. but there's no need for an asshat nearby to say stupid things like "crying means you retained your humanity, unlike those other robots."

Hold on there partner, I think my original point has been distorted well beyond its meaning, and clearly the concept of metaphor is lost on many. I, personally, have never cried because of criticism given in the hospital - and I dont consider myself to be a robot, or an asshat. I have, however, had friends that went through some very depressed times in med school for many reasons, and have cried because they were very sensetive to criticism at the time. Getting sad, or frustrated and looking for support is part of what makes you human. THAT IS WHAT I MEANT. So the people I think ARE robots are the ones that think this is the same thing as "pissing yourself if someone looks at you cross-eyed." I have a problem with the people that look at a colleague who cries or complains, or vents (like the OP) and categorically states that their reaction is stupid. I dont consider that "helping".
If you can turn to someone that is looking for support and expressing their emotions honestly and just tell them to shut up and call them a baby - then yeah, I think you are a robot. If you have sense of self worth that has never been shaken in any situation - good for you, go write a self-help book. Not everyone is like this, and I figure that shouldnt cost them my respect.
My point is that I think the best doctors are the ones that have some humility, and some ability to be empathetic - and the worst ones are usually the ones that cant tell the difference between empathy and pissing yourself.

 

[footcramp]

i see your point now, you are a good man. i applaud your maturity.

 

[IlliniEMT1]

thanks, maybe it is a bit of a sore spot for me - but Ive learned in med school that not everyone is capable of just plowing through the stress and frustration and occasional criticism without letting it get to them sometimes.
Personally, it kills me to think that there are people like my former classmate that are not able to find a way to vent these frustrations constructively, and I fear that myself and my peers did not do enough to create an atmosphere in which she felt comfortable expressing her feelings. I dont think it helps to have medstudents think that they will be berated or insulted if they try to go to their peers for some support.
Maybe some of us need to have a stronger sense of self worth in order to combat these frustrations - but Im sorry, you dont just wake up one morning and decide to be impervious to criticism. I know a few people that suffer from depression who really have to work and fight to keep the kind of self worth and emotional stability that some people take for granted- and I think many of us, even those that arent neccesarily depressed have to work at it sometimes and I think we should cut them a break during those times.