'Those Caribbean medical schools are looking more and more attractive'

[738177]

I see, so do you know any case of a caribbean school med student that transferred to europe?if yes you have any idea which university would accept a transfer?

HMI - Hope Medical Institute in Poland.
Why? Because that's the "Caribbean" of the Polish medical schools.

Good luck.

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[bbbcccppp]

Donuts are by definition hole-istic.

Maybe. But they're not made from judo like bagels.


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[DocGreatness26]

HMI - Hope Medical Institute in Poland.
Why? Because that's the "Caribbean" of the Polish medical schools.

Good luck.

Mmm that looks like those univerisities that focus on the american program first, I checked other universities and contacted them, thanks a lot, one last question: do you recommend any time for a transfer? before my clinicals?right away?after taking the NBME?anything

 

[ScottTenorman54]

well what are my chances to match for the residency of my choice being a non US citizen from an caribbean med school?

Well...not fantastic. But I've heard that between the US and the Commonwealth, the former is quite a bit more IMG-friendly.

 

[738177]

Mmm that looks like those univerisities that focus on the american program first, I checked other universities and contacted them, thanks a lot, one last question: do you recommend any time for a transfer? before my clinicals?right away?after taking the NBME?anything

You can get into HMI whenever you want.

 

[Lyoness]

Mmm that looks like those univerisities that focus on the american program first, I checked other universities and contacted them, thanks a lot, one last question: do you recommend any time for a transfer? before my clinicals?right away?after taking the NBME?anything

Dude as long as you are american board certified, meaning you do your residency in the usa, then you can practice in any country depending on the job, and your visa sponsors. If you want to practice in the middle east, they prefer middle easterners over white ppl to practice medicine especially those who are american board certified. Google doctor jobs in UAE or something and look at the details and requirements for each job.

 

[DocGreatness26]

Dude as long as you are american board certified, meaning you do your residency in the usa, then you can practice in any country depending on the job, and your visa sponsors. If you want to practice in the middle east, they prefer middle easterners over white ppl to practice medicine especially those who are american board certified. Google doctor jobs in UAE or something and look at the details and requirements for each job.

I know that being board certified will help for some countries but not all of the, Im a french citizen and its not the same everywhere, being board certified is mainly for the states, and I dont mind that, UAE and DUBAI are looking for those kinds of doctors I know, but for doing a residency of my choice in the states, being non US citizen and graduating from the caribbean my chances are minimal I suppose unless you know something I dont, then please share it with me

 

[Lyoness]

I know that being board certified will help for some countries but not all of the, Im a french citizen and its not the same everywhere, being board certified is mainly for the states, and I dont mind that, UAE and DUBAI are looking for those kinds of doctors I know, but for doing a residency of my choice in the states, being non US citizen and graduating from the caribbean my chances are minimal I suppose unless you know something I dont, then please share it with me

I disagree, while it's true Caribbean is harder future wise, if you kick ass and do very well on your boards you still have a chance. Just focus on studying and graduating the top of your class so you can land a residency, at least an internal medicine residency. Don't lose hope, search success stories of non citizen Caribbean graduates!

 

[Stagg737]

Dude as long as you are american board certified, meaning you do your residency in the usa, then you can practice in any country depending on the job, and your visa sponsors. If you want to practice in the middle east, they prefer middle easterners over white ppl to practice medicine especially those who are american board certified. Google doctor jobs in UAE or something and look at the details and requirements for each job.

The problem is getting residency in the U.S. as an IMG or FMG, which is quite a bit harder than you're making it out to be...

 

[Lyoness]

The problem is getting residency in the U.S. as an IMG or FMG, which is quite a bit harder than you're making it out to be...

International students have landed residencies here before. It will undeniably be extra hard.

 

[Stagg737]

International students have landed residencies here before. It will undeniably be extra hard.

There's a big difference between saying "someone has done it" and thinking it's a reasonable choice. Most IMGs/FMGs end up in sub-par residency programs that US MDs/DOs don't want in fields that aren't competitive. Sure there are those IMG/FMGs that end up in competitive programs or in competitive fields, but they are standout applicants who had to go above and beyond to get there. They are not the norm.

 

[Lyoness]

There's a big difference between saying "someone has done it" and thinking it's a reasonable choice. Most IMGs/FMGs end up in sub-par residency programs that US MDs/DOs don't want in fields that aren't competitive. Sure there are those IMG/FMGs that end up in competitive programs or in competitive fields, but they are standout applicants who had to go above and beyond to get there. They are not the norm.

If you are in this situation then you have to be above and beyond if you truly want a residency in the usa. But this is a very sticky situation to put yourself in, and people who choose Caribbean should have had this discussion way before they started med school and accumulated debt. Especially if you are not a citizen or a permanent resident!

 

[DocGreatness26]

Hey I completely agree with you, but let me put it this way, I only went to the caribbean because I graduated in summer and all the medical schools I knew about already had closed their registration, so I thought getting an md anywhere would be fine and then doing my residency back in france or europe, so my main concern is being part of a program that is directed for the US while I really want to practice in europe and my school knew about it, so I am looking for a transfer because I think that landing a residency in europe after my md would be 100 times easier if I graduate from a european university , am I right?

 

[BKNbkn]

You can't change over 200 years of tradition over night, shipmate.

<--- that's not coffee in that mug

 

[Shams al Deen]

I know 5-10 ppl that have matched from carribs in last 2 years. I know nobody that has failed to match from Carribean in that same time period. Seems like the pendulum is swinging back the other way like in the 90s. Carrib vs DO may become a legit convo soon.

 

[738177]

Hey I completely agree with you, but let me put it this way, I only went to the caribbean because I graduated in summer and all the medical schools I knew about already had closed their registration, so I thought getting an md anywhere would be fine and then doing my residency back in france or europe, so my main concern is being part of a program that is directed for the US while I really want to practice in europe and my school knew about it, so I am looking for a transfer because I think that landing a residency in europe after my md would be 100 times easier if I graduate from a european university , am I right?

Yes you're right.
There are plenty of money hungry European universities in Hungary, Poland etc. who might allow a transfer. Contact the schools directly. Even if the schools made you start over, i'd do that rather than spending big $$$ in the Caribbean.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I know 5-10 ppl that have matched from carribs in last 2 years. I know nobody that has failed to match from Carribean in that same time period. Seems like the pendulum is swinging back the other way like in the 90s. Carrib vs DO may become a legit convo soon.

No....

 

[gyngyn]

I know 5-10 ppl that have matched from carribs in last 2 years. I know nobody that has failed to match from Carribean in that same time period. Seems like the pendulum is swinging back the other way like in the 90s. Carrib vs DO may become a legit convo soon.

Let's see, DO's have a 99+% chance of getting an internship. We can't even get the "good" Caribbean schools to give us anything close to accurate attrition or placement data. Generous estimates are close to 50% of those who start fail to practice. With new US schools opening every year, the days of Caribbean dreams becoming nightmares is only getting more likely.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Let's see, DO's have a 99+% chance of getting an internship. We can't even get the "good" Caribbean schools to give us anything close to accurate attrition or placement data. Generous estimates are close to 50% fail to practice. With new US schools opening every year, the days of Caribbean dreams becoming nightmares is only getting more likely.

I thought do match rate was like 90%

 

[W19]

I thought do match rate was like 90%

match rate =/= placement rate.... Some of them enter the SOAP and get a residency spot. My guess is the match rate is probably 93-94% just like MD and the rest scramble for a spot just like MD. I think DO placement rate might be slightly higher than MD...

 

[Lyoness]

match rate =/= placement rate.... Some of them enter the SOAP and get a residency spot. My guess is the match rate is probably 93-94% just like MD and the rest scramble for a spot just like MD. I think DO placement rate might be slightly higher than MD...

I believe Merritt Hawkins said that DO match rate is 73% ish and MD is 84%, according to the data they collected from medical schools.

 

[gyngyn]

I believe Merritt Hawkins said that DO match rate is 73% ish and MD is 84%, according to the data they collected from medical schools.

This does not include the DO match and placements which put them over 99%.

 

[Shams al Deen]

Ah yes personal anecdotes with a sample size of 10 clearly trumps national data with a sample size of thousands.

The data are pretty noisy, lots of variables and hard to isolate real numbers from the Big 3 (SGU, AUC, Ross). Bottomline is that good students (with blemishes on their apps) can go to Carrib and come out with an MD and a match pretty consistently.

 

[Goro]

The data are pretty noisy, lots of variables and hard to isolate real numbers from the Big 3 (SGU, AUC, Ross). Bottomline is that good students (with blemishes on their apps) can go to Carrib and come out with an MD and a match pretty consistently.

At a consistent 50/50 chance, which will be decreasing in the next few years, as pointed out.

All one has to do is look in the Carib forum to see plenty of tales of woe.

 

[DocGreatness26]

HMI - Hope Medical Institute in Poland.
Why? Because that's the "Caribbean" of the Polish medical schools.

Good luck.

I know you only mentionned that school and its really low key not that good from what appears on the internet, do you any options I have in germany?poland?or really any university in Europe other than this one?I would really appreciate some help, I already started sending emails

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

<--- that's not coffee in that mug

Or at least not just coffee.

 

[738177]

I know you only mentionned that school and its really low key not that good from what appears on the internet, do you any options I have in germany?poland?or really any university in Europe other than this one?I would really appreciate some help, I already started sending emails

I don't know any more than what i've already written, sorry.

 

[bengirlxD]

Washington Post. You are FAKE NEWS!!

 

[Stagg737]

MD match is 94-95% every year.

DO match rate is difficult to interpret. The official DO match rate in the ACGME match is about 80% and has been trending up; this does not however account for the separate DO/AOA match which occurs earlier.

It should also be stated that if a DO student enters the AOA match and actually matches to a program, they are automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match. I could be wrong, but I believe those withdrawals are counted as "unmatched students", making the DO match rate seem significantly lower than it actually is.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It should also be stated that if a DO student enters the AOA match and actually matches to a program, they are automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match. I could be wrong, but I believe those withdrawals are counted as "unmatched students", making the DO match rate seem significantly lower than it actually is.

I'm not sure if they show up as unmatched in the charting outcomes but they do show up under the ERAS data lowering the numbers by a fair amount

 

[Blessthefall]

The data are pretty noisy, lots of variables and hard to isolate real numbers from the Big 3 (SGU, AUC, Ross). Bottomline is that good students (with blemishes on their apps) can go to Carrib and come out with an MD and a match pretty consistently.

Consistently? Please elaborate on what your interpretation of "consistently" means.

Though I respect your claim, I believe the available data refutes it.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

@Shams al Deen I know two people that either dropped out/kicked out or failed to match, add that to your 5-10 plus the Carib grad that killed himself after not matching makes a good sample size, let's run the numbers!

Edit: I believe all were "big 4"

 

[Shams al Deen]

Consistently? Please elaborate on what your interpretation of "consistently" means.

Though I respect your claim, I believe the available data refutes it.

I mean consistently/reliably in that if students do what they're supposed to do, they'll succeed. Show up, study hard, do well on step 1, shelf exams, step 2. Be a good student. Then they can reasonably expect to match. So my view is that with the big 3 Carrib schools, there are things within the students' control that will heavily tilt the odds in their favor.

Basically, students that show up and work like crazy at those carribean schools consistently match at US MD residencies.

 

[ThreeCheers]

I mean consistently/reliably in that if students do what they're supposed to do, they'll succeed. Show up, study hard, do well on step 1, shelf exams, step 2. Be a good student. Then they can reasonably expect to match. So my view is that with the big 3 Carrib schools, there are things within the students' control that will heavily tilt the odds in their favor.

Basically, students that show up and work like crazy at those carribean schools consistently match at US MD residencies.

The problem is that every MS-0 thinks they are going to "work like crazy", get a 280 step, and match MGH ortho. Only a select group actually ends up doing this so it's better to go to a school that leaves room for error.

Every year even US medical students with massive red flags (step failure, remediated years, etc) make it to graduation and match/place somewhere, while more average students still have their pick of specialties outside of rural primary care. THAT'S what "consistently" looks like.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

Why is this debated? Isn't it already established that Caribbean schools "consistently" bring in hundreds more students than they end with? It's not the match rate of students that made it through all the hoops to apply as an ms4 (though still a poor rate) it's the match rate of all the students that washed up on the islands' shores on day one that is troubling.

 

[grapefruit17]

I mean consistently/reliably in that if students do what they're supposed to do, they'll succeed. Show up, study hard, do well on step 1, shelf exams, step 2. Be a good student. Then they can reasonably expect to match. So my view is that with the big 3 Carrib schools, there are things within the students' control that will heavily tilt the odds in their favor.

Basically, students that show up and work like crazy at those carribean schools consistently match at US MD residencies.

The problem with your statement is you make it sound like doing those things is easy to obtain. Let's consider that a good step score is above average. How many score above average? 50 percent. So the other half does not score above average. Now you're on an island in a whole new environment adjusting, so you already have that working against you.

Showing up and working hard can amount to doing mediocre more times than doing excellent, because your peers are probably doing the exact same thing. And you're weighed against them.

There are many factors that stack the odds against the students. Sure someone can walk in a casino, pull the slot machine lever and win thousands. But the minute they pull that slot machine lever the odds are against them lowering the probability of hitting the jackpot.

My point: things can happen a certain way, but it's more important to look at the probability of things happening a certain way.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I know that being board certified will help for some countries but not all of the, Im a french citizen and its not the same everywhere, being board certified is mainly for the states, and I dont mind that, UAE and DUBAI are looking for those kinds of doctors I know, but for doing a residency of my choice in the states, being non US citizen and graduating from the caribbean my chances are minimal I suppose unless you know something I dont, then please share it with me

I'm on a Dubai obsession right now, just out of curiosity, what's it like there for physicians? I saw their medical schools are entered right out of high school which would lead me to believe doctors there are like doctors in some European countries where you get an MBBS and don't actually have a doctoral level education. I have heard stories of doctors in some nations driving cabs part-time because they can't make enough money to get by as a doctor (whats up with that?). However, Dubai has some of the highest salaries for all kinds of jobs so it would be interesting to know whats up there.

 

[738177]

I'm on a Dubai obsession right now, just out of curiosity, what's it like there for physicians? I saw their medical schools are entered right out of high school which would lead me to believe doctors there are like doctors in some European countries where you get an MBBS and don't actually have a doctoral level education. I have heard stories of doctors in some nations driving cabs part-time because they can't make enough money to get by as a doctor (whats up with that?). However, Dubai has some of the highest salaries for all kinds of jobs so it would be interesting to know whats up there.

If you have an American/Canadian citizenship you'll be paid handsomely whether it's Dubai or Saudi Arabia.
Although i'd much rather go to Dubai over Saudi just because it's infinitely more "modern" with cultures/religion from all over the world. The "no tax" thing is intriguing but i'm guessing as an American you'd still be taxed? I'm Canadian and i'm guessing it's the same for us. They even have some jobs where your housing etc. is paid for. In Dubai, your salary is directly correlated to what your citizenship is.

 

[thetodd815]

Idk why everyone talks poorly about Caribbean med schools. The Todd went to school there!

And I had a blast (high five)!

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

If you have an American/Canadian citizenship you'll be paid handsomely whether it's Dubai or Saudi Arabia.
Although i'd much rather go to Dubai over Saudi just because it's infinitely more "modern" with cultures/religion from all over the world. The "no tax" thing is intriguing but i'm guessing as an American you'd still be taxed? I'm Canadian and i'm guessing it's the same for us. They even have some jobs where your housing etc. is paid for. In Dubai, your salary is directly correlated to what your citizenship is.

I wonder what the licensing process is like. Say a graduate of a US med school with an M.D./D.O., has a US state medical license and wants to go be an ER doctor in Dubai for a little bit.

 

[thepoopologist]

Whatever works. If you can make it to the end of the process then all the more power to you. If you can't, then congratulations you are awarded $400,000 of debt.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

You would have to pay me to go to the Caribbean for anything other than a vacation. I would move to another nation I would actually want to live in for the rest of my life and go to med school there before I went down that road.

 

[pre med 2014]

The problem with your statement is you make it sound like doing those things is easy to obtain. Let's consider that a good step score is above average. How many score above average? 50 percent. So the other half does not score above average. Now you're on an island in a whole new environment adjusting, so you already have that working against you.

Showing up and working hard can amount to doing mediocre more times than doing excellent, because your peers are probably doing the exact same thing. And you're weighed against them.

There are many factors that stack the odds against the students. Sure someone can walk in a casino, pull the slot machine lever and win thousands. But the minute they pull that slot machine lever the odds are against them lowering the probability of hitting the jackpot.

My point: things can happen a certain way, but it's more important to look at the probability of things happening a certain way.

Exactly, what is this 'just work hard' advice, everybody works hard. It's like saying you can qualify for the Boston marathon if you just train hard. Sure anybody "can" but 95% won't (Or whatever the percentile/time cutoff is to bq)

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[Goro]

Exactly, what is this 'just work hard' advice, everybody works hard. It's like saying you can qualify for the Boston marathon if you just train hard. Sure anybody "can" but 95% won't (Or whatever the percentile/time cutoff is to bq)

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It's magic thinking, or just plain ignorance.

 

[W19]

It's magic thinking, or just plain ignorance.

400k is nothing Goro...

 

[bbbcccppp]

And I had a blast (high five)!

Calypso five



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