Time to come clean: I just want to make $$$..!!

[de Ribas]

It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to realize you are trying your best to cope with some deeply seeded problems. Whatever it is, arguing with strangers on an anonymous forum isn't going to help. If you aren't in this field of work or planning to, why are you wasting your time here?

Spot on

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[med2345]

It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to realize you are trying your best to cope with some deeply seeded problems. Whatever it is, arguing with strangers on an anonymous forum isn't going to help. If you aren't in this field of work or planning to, why are you wasting your time here?

I know if I were him I’d be looking for a new car to buy or throw some 1’s at the strip club. He got that podiatrist + money why’s he on here lol

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to realize you are trying your best to cope with some deeply seeded problems. Whatever it is, arguing with strangers on an anonymous forum isn't going to help. If you aren't in this field of work or planning to, why are you wasting your time here?

Coming on here, making a fool of yourself, getting every statistic wrong, then covering your ears, and you think I have problems. How closely related are your parents?

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

I know if I were him I’d be looking for a new car to buy or throw some 1’s at the strip club. He got that podiatrist + money why’s he on here lol

Sounds like you will be managing your debt really well once you come out of podiatry school. I already own a bmw, schooling some fools who argue with advice isnt a bad way to pass a few minutes.

 

[Dochopeful13]

Heres where you make a fool of yourself. Its very common in the medical field and its why the rich laugh at doctors. There is 1 ceo position, hundreds of analyst, associate, project manager, sales representative, software developer positions out there. Good luck.

I am failing to understand your logic. A majority of project manager and sales jobs out there do NOT make anywhere near $200 plus. How old are you? I have been working in the real world for close to 15 years now. I can guarantee you most of my professional friends are not making anywhere close to the numbers you are throwing around. I know someone who has an MBA from Harvard and works in banking. He clears $500 k a year. However, these jobs are only for the best of the best. In addition in a bad economy business jobs are extremely volatile. I barely made it out of the last recession. Medical jobs are somewhat buffered from the ups and downs of the economy. This is why I am going back to school even though I have a very good job in sales.

 

[med2345]

Sounds like you will be managing your debt really well once you come out of podiatry school. I already own a bmw, schooling some fools who argue with advice isnt a bad way to pass a few minutes.

I won’t have any debt when I graduate fortunately, thanks for the concern though. Lol

 

[de Ribas]

I already own a bmw,

1995?

 

[UIO1098]

Coming on here, making a fool of yourself, getting every statistic wrong, then covering your ears, and you think I have problems. How butthurt do you think I am?

ftfy and very

 

[GypsyHummus]

Lets keep personal attacks to a minimum. Y'all are gonna be professionals one day.

@IDontHaveAnyFeet is just trying to make sure people get the full picture. Pre-Pods like to paint everything as sunshines and rainbows. Talk to any pods on the forums and there are some who are very grumpy and dont recommend it to their kids. There are also some that love the work they do.

The DPM degree is not known. People going to pod school will constantly have to explain their credentials and training to recruiters. DPMs are not "in the club" of mainstream medicine (MD) and havent done a great job of marketing themselves as equal providers (DOs). DPM is, by definition a limited profession. This may never be a problem like the DDS or ODs, but If you ever wanted to branch out into other things, you would have to get more schooling. That isnt the case for MDs or DOs.

Pods do nothing unique that cannot be done by another professional. NPs can grind nails. Ortho can do hammertoes. This is not the same for DDS schools, which is why its so competitive to get into vs DPM.

There is a reason why apps were way down this year.

The next couple years will determine the trajectory of the profession. I remain hopeful because the quality of student going into schools are top notch, but Podiatrists themselves dont have a huge presence in lobbying. It took how many years for the VA to get equivalent monetary status for DPMs? And at the end, they were not classified as "physicians" by the ortho dude bros who said no.

It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to realize you are trying your best to cope with some deeply seeded problems. Whatever it is, arguing with strangers on an anonymous forum isn't going to help. If you aren't in this field of work or planning to, why are you wasting your time here?

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

I am failing to understand your logic. A majority of project manager and sales jobs out there do NOT make anywhere near $200 plus. How old are you? I have been working in the real world for close to 15 years now. I can guarantee you most of my professional friends are not making anywhere close to the numbers you are throwing around. I know someone who has an MBA from Harvard and works in banking. He clears $500 k a year. However, these jobs are only for the best of the best. In addition in a bad economy business jobs are extremely volatile. I barely made it out of the last recession. Medical jobs are somewhat buffered from the ups and downs of the economy. This is why I am going back to school even though I have a very good job in sales.

Where is this majority? Is it in the bay area, greater seattle area, new york, los angeles? I should have been more clear for sales, medical sales reps, and software sales where people make 150-200 k with virtually no special degree experience.

When you say best of the best, if you want 200k as a podiatrist you better be the best of the best. You cant use yourself as a statistic. If i used myself, Im already earning more than software developers with years of experience in the south and midwest. The amount of effort people are putting into medical school, podiatry included, most likely puts you at the same level of capability of doing well in banking , software or anything else.
I didnt put podiatry students down, the amount of effort they put in for a petty salary is insane, Im sure most of my peers if they put in the same amount of effort , they could make it in the IB banking world, big n software world etc.
Economy crashes for a short period of time. In the past 20 years how many years have we spent in recession? 2,3???? Are you going to make your entire life around 2-3 years which can be saved for?
In the recession the top companies barely laid anyone off, and with the high recalls on h1b visas the demand for labor in the IT sector is insatiable.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

1995?

for someone who scored in the bottom half of the nation in the MCAT exam you sure make bold statements. Ive had a 2013 bmw since I started college.

 

[de Ribas]

for someone who scored in the bottom half of the nation in the MCAT exam you sure make bold statements. Ive had a 2013 bmw since I started college.

Saying that you own a BMW doesnt mean anything, even 2013. How is that impressive? Or it is impressive because owning a BMW takes a lot of money to repair and maintain?

 

[GypsyHummus]

BMWs are nice looking cars and ride well-really good engineering, but are wayyyy too much money to repair and maintain. And they suck down premium gas like its going out of style.

Im thinking Tesla is the way to go in the near future.

for someone who scored in the bottom half of the nation in the MCAT exam you sure make bold statements. Ive had a 2013 bmw since I started college.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

I won’t have any debt when I graduate fortunately, thanks for the concern though. Lol

Thats a good investment

Saying that you own a BMW doesnt mean anything, even 2013. How is that impressive? Or it is impressive because owning a BMW takes a lot of money to repair and maintain?

2013 is not supposed to be impressive. The other guy wanted me to search for new cars, why search for new cars when I have a perfectly fine luxury car currently and am currently working on purchasing a house???? Do you forget that quickly?
A bmw has a 3 year free of charge service package. You can extend it by 2 years for 3 k.
Expensive to maintain, is that another anecdote? " my friend said they are expensive to maintain"???
I have a 2009 bmw my girlfriend has been using, its been in the family since 2010, and besides routine oil changes once every 6 months, we have had one issue with the fuel pump which was fixed dec 2016 under warranty.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

I won’t have any debt when I graduate fortunately, thanks for the concern though. Lol

You wont have any debt, that is very good. Whether it be family funding, or you earning it yourself, its one of the worst investments you could make. Are you really going to INVEST 300 k on a degree that "enables" you to earn money? that once you stop working, it stops providing money? Especially with DPM's where matching is still an issue (although the issue is decreasing). What happens when you graduate and you dont match? Or if you do match but end up in that bottom 20% below 100k salary range? then what?

Good investment dude.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

BMWs are nice looking cars and ride well-really good engineering, but are wayyyy too much money to repair and maintain. And they suck down premium gas like its going out of style.

Im thinking Tesla is the way to go in the near future.

I would love to buy the tesla model 3. However since they are electric only, it requires me to HAVE a garage at all times. Im also limited if I want to go on a long trip to LA, which I do annually. And most importantly with my decision to eventually move to the seattle area, in the event I need to rent an apartment for a few months, I would be unable to charge. I would go with chevy volt if I had to go electric.

 

[de Ribas]

Expensive to maintain, is that another anecdote? " my friend said they are expensive to maintain"???

I have been in auto business for more than 10 years and have owned more cars than you have owned socks. I know German cars all around. No need for anecdotes. I know sale and resale values of almost any car by memory. I can tell you how much parts can cost for alsmot any car. I have been selling auto parts for years, new and used. I have took cars apart by individual pieces and put them back together.

BMWs are nice and luxury cars (depending on the model) when they are relatively new. I have nothing against you owning a BMW. Just replying to your comment about family anecdotes.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

I have been in auto business for more than 10 years and have owned more cars than you have owned socks. I know German cars all around. No need for anecdotes. I know sale and resale values of almost any car by memory. I can tell you how much parts can cost for alsmot any car. I have been selling auto parts for years, new and used. I have took cars apart by individual pieces and put them back together.

BMWs are nice and luxury cars (depending on the model) when they are relatively new. I have nothing against you owning a BMW. Just replying to your comment about family anecdotes.

in that case, insults and grudges aside how much should I sell the 2009 bmw 328 i for if it has 60 k miles on it and is in good condition besides 2-3 small dings?

 

[de Ribas]

in that case, insults and grudges aside how much should I sell the 2009 bmw 328 i for if it has 60 k miles on it and is in good condition besides 2-3 small dings?

Anywhere between 7-11k

A lot of factors come into play:
1. Location
2. Manual or auto
3. Condition
4. Local market
5. Number of owners
6. Prior accidents
7. Maintenance
8. Current issues


If its Excellent condition with no wrecks or any prior damages and 1 owner, can expect around 10-11k.

 

[de Ribas]

in that case, insults and grudges aside how much should I sell the 2009 bmw 328 i for if it has 60 k miles on it and is in good condition besides 2-3 small dings?

I advise people in general to sell the car before it gets to 90-100k miles.

That's when majority and most expesnive maintenance services needs to be done and a lot starts to go bad especially in German cars.

Your car should have timing chain which will not require for it to be changed by 100K. Which is usually at least $1k.

Good luck.

 

[AudiLova619]

Its not a salary question or debate anymore. Seems like everyone agrees the average graduate will make somewhere between 100-150k. A top earning graduate will make more than 200k and a low end will make less than 100k.
The problem at hand is the time invested for the podiatrists making 100-150 k, which is a very low number for someone spending 4+ 3 years of their life (if not more), being limited in the location of their choice, and having debt, when 100's of other careers pay more AND one could spend an extra year or two prepping that MCAT and go DO, get an almost guaranteed FM/IM or higher and make 200 k with the same time invested, less stress, and more respect (Or just not go the medicine route).

Isnt it embarassing that people with a bachelors in nursing can make more?


I was a former pod student, when I get email notifications I respond. 50th percentile is well below 200 k without bonuses, and that includes all podiatrists. Check out the 20-35 age group making an average of 150 k. That is beyond pathetic for someone who spent so much time studying, not earning money, and acruing debt. Its only after youre well experienced you start to reach those "upper numbers" in the 200k region.

an IB banker, software developer in a tech hub will be at 200 k within 2-3 years. This is my first year working and I make more than podiatrists with years of training. By the time they reach 200k, I will be somewhere at 500-800k and the ib bankers who stay will be above a million, in actual cities.

Check out the 20-35 age group making an average of 150 k. That is beyond pathetic for someone who spent so much time studying, not earning money, and acruing debt. Its only after youre well experienced you start to reach those "upper numbers" in the 200k region.

I think is applies to a lot of professions especially dentistry, where dental grads have 500k in loans and most likely have to work corporate in order to pay it off before opening private.

 

[footpainhealer]

I think is applies to a lot of professions especially dentistry, where dental grads have 500k in loans and most likely have to work corporate in order to pay it off before opening private.

Dental is WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME!!!!!!

I can't believe these guys are willing to spend 100K-120K per year for FOUR YEARS just to clean teeth, and most importantly, make an average of like $160-175K. I mean come on, that's just stupid.

Did you guys see the article of that dentist in Colorado with $1Million of loan debt???

 

[Yazo]

Where is this majority? Is it in the bay area, greater seattle area, new york, los angeles? I should have been more clear for sales, medical sales reps, and software sales where people make 150-200 k with virtually no special degree experience.

When you say best of the best, if you want 200k as a podiatrist you better be the best of the best. You cant use yourself as a statistic. If i used myself, Im already earning more than software developers with years of experience in the south and midwest. The amount of effort people are putting into medical school, podiatry included, most likely puts you at the same level of capability of doing well in banking , software or anything else.
I didnt put podiatry students down, the amount of effort they put in for a petty salary is insane, Im sure most of my peers if they put in the same amount of effort , they could make it in the IB banking world, big n software world etc.
Economy crashes for a short period of time. In the past 20 years how many years have we spent in recession? 2,3???? Are you going to make your entire life around 2-3 years which can be saved for?
In the recession the top companies barely laid anyone off, and with the high recalls on h1b visas the demand for labor in the IT sector is insatiable.

I think you have to realize that most of us don't want to become podiatrists for the salary. Even if we make $100K a year, that's still way more than the average American sees. It pays the bills and there's more than enough left over to enjoy life.

If you go into podiatry with the mindset of a businessman that's trying to make money at every turn, you're going to hate going to work every day and you won't make a good doctor.

 

[Dochopeful13]

I think you have to realize that most of us don't want to become podiatrists for the salary. Even if we make $100K a year, that's still way more than the average American sees. It pays the bills and there's more than enough left over to enjoy life.

If you go into podiatry with the mindset of a businessman that's trying to make money at every turn, you're going to hate going to work every day and you won't make a good doctor.

$100 k is nowhere near enough for 7 years of school and $300 k plus in debt.

 

[UIO1098]

$100 k is nowhere near enough for 7 years of school and $300 k plus in debt.

Something important that is not being brought up

 

[Dochopeful13]

Something important that is not being brought up

Exactly. I am all about doing what you love but at some point it needs to be financially worth it. My wife has a ton of nursing friends who make close to 100 k with minimal loans. For podiatry to be worth it I feel you need to make at least 200 k for the majority of your career. From what I’m told after a few years you should be able to reach that mark easily. I’m just a lowly pre med though so this is all hersay.

 

[UIO1098]

Exactly. I am all about doing what you love but at some point it needs to be financially worth it. My wife has a ton of nursing friends who make close to 100 k with minimal loans. For podiatry to be worth it I feel you need to make at least 200 k for the majority of your career. From what I’m told after a few years you should be able to reach that mark easily. I’m just a lowly pre med though so this is all hersay.

That is RNs too. Most NPs make ~120-150k and CRNAs top out in the low 200s

 

[Yazo]

Exactly. I am all about doing what you love but at some point it needs to be financially worth it. My wife has a ton of nursing friends who make close to 100 k with minimal loans. For podiatry to be worth it I feel you need to make at least 200 k for the majority of your career. From what I’m told after a few years you should be able to reach that mark easily. I’m just a lowly pre med though so this is all hersay.

$100 k is nowhere near enough for 7 years of school and $300 k plus in debt.

Hopefully this is the case! I mostly meant that we shouldn't just look at podiatry as a job, but a passion/calling (like any other field where you directly have an effect on the lives of people). Money is important too, though.

 

[Dochopeful13]

That is RNs too. Most NPs make ~120-150k and CRNAs top out in the low 200s

Exactly. I was really considering the CRNA route but I just could not see myself doing floor nursing beforehand. You seem pretty in tuned with podiatry. Would you say 200 k is a fair number to aim for??

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I'll say it again, using the MGMA salary is the best route for not being suckered into those 80K salaries.
Thus, the majority of new grads are doing just fine after residency, regardless of whatever the norm seems to be here on SDN.
If you're good at your job and are open-minded about relocating, then there is no limit to how much $$$ you can make in this profession.

 

[med2345]

Exactly. I was really considering the CRNA route but I just could not see myself doing floor nursing beforehand. You seem pretty in tuned with podiatry. Would you say 200 k is a fair number to aim for??

200k is a pretty safe average for podiatry early-mid career. More if you are more surgical focused. MGMA is 283k for hospital workers(surgical podiatrists) and you can see more or less with orthopedic and multi specialty groups. You can search the threads to find the info

 

[naoise151]

Lets keep personal attacks to a minimum. Y'all are gonna be professionals one day.

@IDontHaveAnyFeet is just trying to make sure people get the full picture. Pre-Pods like to paint everything as sunshines and rainbows. Talk to any pods on the forums and there are some who are very grumpy and dont recommend it to their kids. There are also some that love the work they do.

The DPM degree is not known. People going to pod school will constantly have to explain their credentials and training to recruiters. DPMs are not "in the club" of mainstream medicine (MD) and havent done a great job of marketing themselves as equal providers (DOs). DPM is, by definition a limited profession. This may never be a problem like the DDS or ODs, but If you ever wanted to branch out into other things, you would have to get more schooling. That isnt the case for MDs or DOs.

Pods do nothing unique that cannot be done by another professional. NPs can grind nails. Ortho can do hammertoes. This is not the same for DDS schools, which is why its so competitive to get into vs DPM.

There is a reason why apps were way down this year.

The next couple years will determine the trajectory of the profession. I remain hopeful because the quality of student going into schools are top notch, but Podiatrists themselves dont have a huge presence in lobbying. It took how many years for the VA to get equivalent monetary status for DPMs? And at the end, they were not classified as "physicians" by the ortho dude bros who said no.

Are there any past threads on here from pods that are telling prepods to steer away from the career? Because i'd love to read some and get further insight. Additionally, what do you mean how do you think the next couple years will affect podiatry?

 

[med2345]

Are there any past threads on here from pods that are telling prepods to steer away from the career? Because i'd love to read some and get further insight. Additionally, what do you mean how do you think the next couple years will affect podiatry?

You find that with any branch of medicine on here. To steer away from medicine as a whole. Ask real podiatrists that you shadow. It’d be a terrible mistake to trust words of strangers on the internet to influence your career choice.

 

[de Ribas]

Are there any past threads on here from pods that are telling prepods to steer away from the career? Because i'd love to read some and get further insight. Additionally, what do you mean how do you think the next couple years will affect podiatry?

You can find these threads for every single profession on SDN.

Couple years is not enough to determine a trajectory of a profession.

 

[de Ribas]

Most NPs make ~120-150k

Source?


Average is around 100K

 

[AudiLova619]

Exactly. I was really considering the CRNA route but I just could not see myself doing floor nursing beforehand. You seem pretty in tuned with podiatry. Would you say 200 k is a fair number to aim for??

I heard that becoming a CRNA is not that easy to do, and difficult to become. Not that many nurses make it to become a CRNA. Sort of like doing a residency.

 

[de Ribas]

I heard that becoming a CRNA is not that easy to do, and difficult to become. Not that many nurses make it to become a CRNA. Sort of like doing a residency.

It is very hard and long journey for a nurse or a person with non-nursing background. Most programs take a few students anyways and there are not many programs around. In my state, for example, there are only 4 programs and each school accept 12-25 students.

A cost to get from BSN to DNP CRNA is at least 100K

You have to work at least 1 year as BSN in ICU before you can apply. Fresh nursing graduates almost never get ICU positions.

So, it is probably easier and faster to go to DO school.

EDIT:
If a nurse that has worked in ICU for quite sometime and has BSN and then decided to go to CRNA program, then it might be a good decision. But it is different for a non-nurse student in their mid 20s or older thinking about this path. Better to go PA or MD/DO/DPM route with any other non-nursing bachelor's.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Most NPs make ~120-150k

Not true.. thats the top 10%.. And most of those are ones that were nurses for a long time so that when they became NP's they had a breadth of knowledge in medicine. However, the NP degree is becoming diluted with all the online programs and fast track paths where no experience is necessary.

 

[UIO1098]

Source?


Average is around 100K

https://www.merritthawkins.com/uplo...hysician_Incentive_Review_Merritt_Hawkins.pdf

Average base salary for NP is 123k

 

[de Ribas]

Not true.. thats the top 10%.. And most of those are ones that were nurses for a long time so that when they became NP's they had a breadth of knowledge in medicine. However, the NP degree is becoming diluted with all the online programs and fast track paths where no experience is necessary.

I would guess that those who get 150K, are those who specialized. There are very few programs that have various specialties. I would think that DNPs that work in Orthopedics or other surgery centers might get a little higer pay. Maybe DNPs that live in very rural places. There are DNPs that are directors of nursing departments for large hospitals or even networks. I guess they might get a little more pay as well.

Other than that DNPs get about 75-115K

 

[de Ribas]

https://www.merritthawkins.com/uplo...hysician_Incentive_Review_Merritt_Hawkins.pdf

Average base salary for NP is 123k

Go to Mayo Clinic website. They post their starting salaries for all jobs.

All their PAs and NPs, in all specialties get about 100K for start.

 

[de Ribas]

https://www.merritthawkins.com/uplo...hysician_Incentive_Review_Merritt_Hawkins.pdf

Average base salary for NP is 123k

Ok. But you said most get 120-150k

Now you say the average is 123K.

 

[UIO1098]

Go to Mayo Clinic website. They post their starting salaries for all jobs.

All their PAs and NPs, in all specialties get about 100K for start.

For start. Someone with experience will make more than the starting salary.

 

[de Ribas]

For start. Someone with experience will make more than the starting salary.

But that's Mayo Clinic. Their pay is higher than most other places. I have been exposed to nursing and management and know salaries across many hospitals. They pay higher than unions pay.

My sister with BSN and 3-4 years of experience only gets about 68% of what Mayo Clinic pays.


Look at the attachment. Their minimum for RNs start at $33.xx. While union starts at $28 and others in the area start $24-26.

Their LPNs starts at $20 while my sister worked as LPN for $14-15

They pay at least 20% higher across all jobs relative to the midwest region.

 

[med2345]

Also CRNAs are usually about mid 100s and 200 is definitely in the top percent. Not to mention CRNA school is as expensive as med school and very competetive also

 

[de Ribas]

GasWork.com - Search - CRNA Jobs
Starting. Here is a site that anesthesia groups and hospitals use to post ads they can't fill.

I have randomly looked at about 30 of them. Lowest I have seen is 140K. Most of them fall around 200K.

I have seen some start at 250K and go up to 280k.

I am going into CRNA

But on the same website, MDs start around 350K

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

https://www.merritthawkins.com/uplo...hysician_Incentive_Review_Merritt_Hawkins.pdf

Average base salary for NP is 123k

Merritt Hawkins does job recruiting... That source is based on THEIR specific job openings that they have posted. It is not even close to the average of all job openings across the nation. It is a very small sample size. That number also includes the benefits, bonuses, loan repayment, etc. Its not a true year by year salary. If you were to include that for all the salaries for pods and doctors, their averages would be much higher. The true average for all Nurse Practitioners across the nation is near 100k.

 

[med2345]

GasWork.com - Search - CRNA Jobs
Starting. Here is a site that anesthesia groups and hospitals use to post ads they can't fill.

This is kinda biased. These are spots needed filled in rural areas. There is always more money in rural areas with medicine. Money is the equalizer living for a less desirable area

 

[Dochopeful13]

I have randomly looked at about 30 of them. Lowest I have seen is 140K. Most of them fall around 200K.

I have seen some start at 250K and go up to 280k.

I am going into CRNA

But on the same website, MDs start around 350K

Haha I almost pulled the trigger on CRNA. I went as far as meeting with an accelerated BSN program admissions counselor. However, it potentially is a long haul since you have to work an ICU job first which are hard to get as a new grad. Additionally this may sound dumb but the allure of having a DR title was better to me than having to explain to people that I am a nurse who gives anesthesia. Lastly one potential negative about CRNA that I found in my research was that it is getting super saturated. Same story as pharmacy. Great job- schools get greedy-too many schools open. Eventually salaries will come down.

 

[med2345]

I have randomly looked at about 30 of them. Lowest I have seen is 140K. Most of them fall around 200K.

I have seen some start at 250K and go up to 280k.

I am going into CRNA

But on the same website, MDs start around 350K

Pasha are you not doing podiatry anymore?