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Great post. It seems podiatry is trending in the right direction. I imagine 10 years from now there will be even more ortho and hospital jobs.
Time to come clean: I just want to make $$$..!!
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This. Also, remember that becoming a partner in a podiatry practice will often times increase your salary significantly. Just make sure that the buy in is reasonable.
Healthcare in America is becoming much more corporate. In 10 years, those hospital and large practices may become the norm.
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For those of you wondering about the associate jobs out there, one of the newly minted pods posted on the forums a couple weeks ago. The conversation is a good indication of what kind of jobs and numbers you can expect from pod practices. I think overall he ended up making something like 110-120K his first year out.
First year in private practice, and this is my bonus + base...
First year in private practice, and this is my bonus + base...
Interesting read. Seems like he could of made a lot more if he was busier. He is projecting to make $180 this year including bonus. I think that’s really good for private practice. It goes to show there’s money in private practice too, you just have to build up to it.
150-200k+ should be what you go for your first year out. The op in that thread also said the partners at that practice were collecting ~ 700k. After overhead and whatnot, their pretax income would be 300k+
Are your numbers pretty standard? Everyone always seems so pessimistic about $$$ on this forum but these numbers look great to me. Right up there with primary care $$$.
KEY WORDS on that post about his income is surgery center. That's why their numbers look great. Facility fees are higher than doctor's fees...and since they own the ASC (ambulatory surg. center), they are getting that money too. MOST pods do NOT own an ASC.
Obviously it's in our best interest to own one, or operate at ASC's that give you "commission" for using their facility (around here it's legally only allowed to be 20% of the facility fee). So you'd get your normal doctor's fee + 20% of whatever the ASC made off of the surgery.
If you work a salary job like at a hospital (with no bonus structure), they make ALL the facility fees, while you get none of it. lol
They should be. Most private practice contracts are a base salary + a % of collections once the practice makes roughly triple what they paid you. If you can't reach high 100s-low 200s as an associate, it sounds like you are in a poorly run/ very low volume clinic, or you're getting exploited by the owners. DMU did a salary survey of grads a few years ago. The bar on the right shows podiatrists with 1-5 years in practice. Seems some podiatrists do get screwed, but around ~65% are doing fine for an associate. Speculating, it is likely for that percentage of news pods being paid like a physician should be will increase as more hospitals/msgs realize the benefits (profitability) of hiring a podiatrist.
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The surgery center % was a small part of his income. Most of the bonus $$$ came from regular collections. I’ve been told by many people on here that getting $500,000 in collections isn’t very hard to get.
Interesting. Unless I’m reading it wrong there was a sharp decrease with those making over $200,00 and those making $124,000 or less greatly increased since 2005 which is a bit worrisome. In addition who in the hell is making less than $75,000.
That wasn't the salary for fresh 2005 grads. It was based on whenever the survey was taken (2014, I think), and divided by year graduated. Even now, I'd wager that those fresh grads making 150k+ has increased due to the increasing amount of hospitalist jobs available.
2015 Compensation and Benefits Survey Results - ACFAS
These numbers look great especially since they are just salary and do not include bonuses.
Even still those who graduated between 2001 to 2005 made essentially more than those that graduated between 2006 -2010. You would think it would be the opposite.
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I thought you were talking about the partners as a whole (the ones making 6-700K and 450K in collections) lol. He didn't make much cause he's new and probably didn't do alot of surgeries. Those other docs are raking it in though (his employers).
Look at another graph on their website where it show how many are working less than 30 hours per week.
Hedge funds, software, IB Banking. They arent as hard to get into as people think
Levels.fyi - Compare career levels across companies
current software salaries. FYI, microsoft is pretty easy to get into
With that mentality you could just join the white collar work force, live frugally through your 20s and early 30s while stuffing money into etfs, 401k, and a starter home. Simple Savings Calculator - Savings Interest & Investment Growth Calculator. The biggest advantage that medicine has over white collar is that all cities need doctors. Not all cities need an engineer with your mid career specialization. Your specialization may even become custom tailored to a specific employer. If you ever need to move or get laid off it may be very difficult to restart. Even a career in which you start out at 50k a year and top out at 85k a year after 5 years can carry you a long ways if you save like crazy when your young.
Its important to note that podiatry, among many other specializations isnt pick and chose to where you want to work. Yes all cities need doctors but not all cities need unlimited podiatrists. For example if you wanted to live in LA, the bay area, new york, or chicago, those areas are already saturated.
With engineering there are remote jobs, which means you can live anywhere with wifi and get paid the same.
Its not difficult
Most importantly, the big money is in places where people WANT to live. I would hate living in the midwest (I hate manhattan NY too), but the bay area, seattle, LA are great for my life style. And the pay is 1000X better than podiatry
Those cities are saturated because 10s of millions of people live in the surrounding area...
And saturation affects their incomes. LA podiatry salaries are record low, (Ive heard the same about chicago).
Its the opposite of what corporate jobs are like, which pay more in big cities, where, again, people WANT to live.
It seems like even cities that are not usually popular suck to work in too.
This one in Tampa lumps us with PA and NP's.
Podiatrist Jobs, Employment | Indeed.com
This one PURPOSELY does NOT want a surgically trained pod (WTF is that ****).
Podiatrist Jobs, Employment | Indeed.com
There was a listing in TX I saw 2 weeks ago with a salary that stated "up to $85,000". And now it's gone, which could mean they removed the listing because they found someone since pods will take anything they can get (not good for us), or they realized that the salary is too low and no one in their right mind for work for that little. Either way, it's a bad sign.
Geez I really really hope things get better in 7 years lol.
This one in Tampa lumps us with PA and NP's.
Podiatrist Jobs, Employment | Indeed.com
This one PURPOSELY does NOT want a surgically trained pod (WTF is that ****).
Podiatrist Jobs, Employment | Indeed.com
There was a listing in TX I saw 2 weeks ago with a salary that stated "up to $85,000". And now it's gone, which could mean they removed the listing because they found someone since pods will take anything they can get (not good for us), or they realized that the salary is too low and no one in their right mind for work for that little. Either way, it's a bad sign.
Geez I really really hope things get better in 7 years lol.
Eh, to be fair, I've never found a quality job looking through indeed. Usually you have to go to an employer's website to find job listings.
The APMA website has more offerings than Indeed can supply. Though I expect those to be lowballs. For some reason, being a associate podiatrist leads to 110-130K/year contract. Id like to see that fly with a Family or Internal med doc.
The APMA website has more offerings than Indeed can supply. Though I expect those to be lowballs. For some reason, being a associate podiatrist leads to 110-130K/year contract. Id like to see that fly with a Family or Internal med doc.
Im just going to leave this out here, I know 5 podiatrists in the silicon valley south bay area(the expensive part) where everyone has insurance and money to spend. Salaries were 200 k at kaiser (very difficult to get), 170k for a guy in private practice after 10 years!!!!!, 90 k for associates (female pod had 5 years of exp at this income!!!) at a practice where the owner was taking home 350k (he owned the practice for 30 years) . its terrible all around right now.
I find it ironic that the only people that aren't satisfied with podiatrist salaries are the ones that aren't actually podiatrists or decided not to go the podiatry route. Salary varies but everyone is making enough to pay off debt, live comfortably + some. This keeps popping up yet there have been multiple posted surveys of actual salaries. This topic has been beaten to death lol
Again, you have no clue who these people are. I’d hope you know how to read graphs and surveys at this point in your life. You’ll have terrible success with medicine if you’re taking anecdotals over gathered general info.
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Great point. The survey I posted above has the average salary without bonuses over $200,000. I’m not sure why someone who is a “computer engineer” and “makes over $130,000” is so concerned about what podiatrists make lol.
Its not a salary question or debate anymore. Seems like everyone agrees the average graduate will make somewhere between 100-150k. A top earning graduate will make more than 200k and a low end will make less than 100k.
The problem at hand is the time invested for the podiatrists making 100-150 k, which is a very low number for someone spending 4+ 3 years of their life (if not more), being limited in the location of their choice, and having debt, when 100's of other careers pay more AND one could spend an extra year or two prepping that MCAT and go DO, get an almost guaranteed FM/IM or higher and make 200 k with the same time invested, less stress, and more respect (Or just not go the medicine route).
Isnt it embarassing that people with a bachelors in nursing can make more?
I was a former pod student, when I get email notifications I respond. 50th percentile is well below 200 k without bonuses, and that includes all podiatrists. Check out the 20-35 age group making an average of 150 k. That is beyond pathetic for someone who spent so much time studying, not earning money, and acruing debt. Its only after youre well experienced you start to reach those "upper numbers" in the 200k region.
an IB banker, software developer in a tech hub will be at 200 k within 2-3 years. This is my first year working and I make more than podiatrists with years of training. By the time they reach 200k, I will be somewhere at 500-800k and the ib bankers who stay will be above a million, in actual cities.
Sounds like youre a bit triggered, are you a podiatrist? So should you be saying who would be successful in medicine or not?
Podiatrists
🙂
Explain that gathered info too. You know alot about statistics right?
This keeps getting posted because this entire website is full of butthurt people for whatever reason who like to go around saying "this field is dead" or "that field doesn't pay anything." Also, the facts that podiatry seems to attract people who take a 200k loan and have low enough self-esteem to take a <150k starting offer plus that the APMA throws a lowball number doesn't help.
This is false. Google, which is the highest paying company will pay senior developers ~350k. IB also maxes out around the same, unless you are a superstar. Both also require you to live in the two most expensive cities in the country, 70+ hours a week for IB, and have insane taxes rates.
Have you read the posts from older pods? There are a few that make above the 200K mark (top 20%) but more common is the associate position working for a pod with a base salary around 100-110K with production bonuses, and that is considered "good" for associate pay.
There are horror stories of pods making 50K in a year as an associate, but those are bottom 10% cases. I wouldnt look at a potential profession based on what the highs and lows make, its the 30-70% percentile people needed to observe. Its associate positions which are most plentiful. This isnt to say you cant be a hospital or MSG pod and make 250-350K five years out, or even an ortho making 400K+. Realistically, you are going to be in the middle.
Now, if you set up shop in the south, midwest, or middle of the country will prolly yield better fruits than a crowded SoCal or NYC.
There are horror stories of pods making 50K in a year as an associate, but those are bottom 10% cases. I wouldnt look at a potential profession based on what the highs and lows make, its the 30-70% percentile people needed to observe. Its associate positions which are most plentiful. This isnt to say you cant be a hospital or MSG pod and make 250-350K five years out, or even an ortho making 400K+. Realistically, you are going to be in the middle.
Now, if you set up shop in the south, midwest, or middle of the country will prolly yield better fruits than a crowded SoCal or NYC.
Salaries in Investment Banking
6 years into IB banking just an associate youre looking at 500k. The people who dont hang around go into hedge funds where salaries are huge. And in either case they are making more than podiatrists with less time invested into school. The salary paid beats the cost of living any day. Learn basic math.
Levels.fyi - Compare career levels across companies
Google is beyond just silicon valley. So is facebook. Seattle is a great location for fat salaries, low taxes, moderate housing. 200k in seattle when married is 150 k take home. The house I am working on purchasing is a 3 bedroom townhome outside of Microsoft for 450 k, pretty easy when I keep 150k/200 k income But who cares about location, when youre a T6 at google, E6 at Facebook, or a principal at microsoft youre making 500, 600, and 350 k respectively all within 10 years. You said senior developers are paid 350k at google which is the highest paying company? Why is facebook paying more then? Oh did you use anecdotes?
As previously stated, there is no way to tell who is posting here and most of the salary posts here are very ambiguous. What are the bonuses on these salaries? Are these people even podiatrists?
You sound really butthurt. That source is based on """conversations""" with """bankers.""" Go look at any top business school and see what the 30 year old graduates are landing. Most of them are making mid-high 100s if they land IB. Even if bankers land a 400k income, the col is still ridiculous where a decent condo in NYC will cost well over $1,000,000.
How worker pay compares at Facebook, Google, Amazon
Another fake source, and more butthurt... Google says their median income is 200k a year. Of course some kid larping on a medical forum is a more reliable source.
Dude. Honestly everytime you post you come off as a pod student that failed out and is salty at the world. For the record I’m not a podiatrist ... yet. Do you just post on here to discourage upcoming students?
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I don’t care about anecdotals go talk to REAL people ... DOCTORS. Even doctors that aren’t podiatrists know how much podiatrists make. And it is 90 percent of the time more than the “median” you see on the sites.
And quit bringing up associates. You do know they are part time working 20-30 hours and making around 90-100k? They are supposed to make less. That’s kinda the whole point. Probably people who are happy and have others ventures in life. Like businesses or traveling. Sheesh
Dude no disrespect but it seems that you are just listing random made up numbers. Sure there are professions that make more than podiatry. Hell there are a bunch of jobs that make more than MD’s. But these are like the top one percent of salaries and jobs. Lebron makes 35 million a year why would anyone go to podiatry school when they can just go to the NBA? I know a few people who work for Facebook and they make less than $100,000 a year. How many Facebook jobs do you think actually pay $350 plus? It’s common sense. Medical jobs guarantee a certain income. Sure Bill Gates makes more but how many Bill gates are actually out there? Usually if a person takes a podiatry job that makes $100,000 they can make $50,000 plugin bonus money. As one builds up clientele salary and bonus money should keep increasing.
And average CEO makes about 15M
3M CEO makes 20M/yr
Go become a CEO.
I want to be a doctor and make my lame 200K.
3M CEO makes 20M/yr
Go become a CEO.
I want to be a doctor and make my lame 200K.
Lol I just gave up my 15 mil CEO job to follow my dreams in the NBA. Wish me luck!
No, associates work usually from 8am-5pm. Case in point:
First year in private practice, and this is my bonus + base...
and also for some consideration:
Is podiatry worth it
This is statistically where most people will end up. Im not discouraging anyone from DPM, and you can add a lot of good and save a lot of limbs and lives, but people need to go into it with their eyes open.
First year in private practice, and this is my bonus + base...
and also for some consideration:
Is podiatry worth it
This is statistically where most people will end up. Im not discouraging anyone from DPM, and you can add a lot of good and save a lot of limbs and lives, but people need to go into it with their eyes open.
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Someone who is 30 years old is way behind if they are trying to get into ib banking unless they apply directly for an associate. 20 year olds working as analysts are the ones making mid 100's.
400 k which is pretty normal for associates is 230 k after taxes, seems pretty reasonable when a 1 million dollar condo has only a 60k /year mortage and you haven't accrued 400 k after interest in student loans + 7 years of earning dirt to virtually nothing. Not to mention they get to live in one of the most desired places on earth and keep the asset they spend their money on, meanwhile a podiatry DPM cannot be sold transferred rented out or loaned against. And then of course, that is an associate in his 30's meanwhile his podiatry peers are starting in the mid 100k range, and he will eventually climb to the million dollar range as a managing director, or go off into a hedge fund and keep his salary.
I dont care for banking much Im not in that field but it still beats podiatry any day.
Fake source? Google "says" ? "larping" ? did you just get out of high school? Google doesn't say anything. Engineers self report their salaries. Salary is one thing, stock bonus is another. Stock bonuses vary from 50k/year to 300k + / year. No wonder youre looking into podiatry after getting rejected from med schools and trying to scrap a defense for it.
Anyway, at 23 and 150 k for 3 years, then 250k for another 3 , youve already had a head start of your podiatry peers in the race, that they will never be able to catch up to.
You can deny the salary stats as much as you want, its as good as covering your ears like the child you are and screaming "na na na"
Heres where you make a fool of yourself. Its very common in the medical field and its why the rich laugh at doctors. There is 1 ceo position, hundreds of analyst, associate, project manager, sales representative, software developer positions out there. Good luck.
Its very hard to fail out before your first semester ends. Making more money than I would as a podiatrist, and you think Im salty? Thats funny.
If you read the first year in private practice post he is going to make $180 plus his second year out! Not bad for someone two years out of residency. This income will continually climb too as you build clinetale and make partner. Podiatry salaries are on par with primary care docs numbers. You most likely will not makes millions in medicine. However, you will make guaranteed good money and more than majority of Americans will ever see.
It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to realize you are trying your best to cope with some deeply seeded problems. Whatever it is, arguing with strangers on an anonymous forum isn't going to help. If you aren't in this field of work or planning to, why are you wasting your time here?
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