- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 22
I interviewed 2 weeks ago and heard back within a week. They did mention they had a lot of interviews so that could be why they're taking long.
TouroCOM Master's Program
- Thread starter chandini786
- Start date
- Joined
- May 19, 2016
- Messages
- 78
- Reaction score
- 11
Hi! Anyone mind if I butt in?
My parents seem really sold on the idea of me attending Touro CA's MSMHS (COM) program (link more for my own reference), but they neglected to name the thing when they told me about it (had to dig a bit just to get that name...) and the "guaranteed interview with 3.0+ graduation GPA!" thing makes me think of SMPs. I hope I'm jumping at shadows, but that 30% acceptance rate + hurtful curve doesn't help its case any... And it's also a bit more expensive than equivalent programs?
Judging by the posts on this page (39), I suppose the 30% success rate is a thing, but does this program have SMP status--aka, is that ultimatum attached to this program?
My parents seem really sold on the idea of me attending Touro CA's MSMHS (COM) program (link more for my own reference), but they neglected to name the thing when they told me about it (had to dig a bit just to get that name...) and the "guaranteed interview with 3.0+ graduation GPA!" thing makes me think of SMPs. I hope I'm jumping at shadows, but that 30% acceptance rate + hurtful curve doesn't help its case any... And it's also a bit more expensive than equivalent programs?
Judging by the posts on this page (39), I suppose the 30% success rate is a thing, but does this program have SMP status--aka, is that ultimatum attached to this program?
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 22
Tbh for Touro NY masters idk where everyone is getting this "30% only get into the DO program" thing because when I called admissions and when I talked to my interviewer they both told me that about 50% of the masters students got in. That's a believable number considering there's only 35 students in the master's class at each campus so I don't suspect they're lying or anything.
I believe 30% chance is when you count all the MS students from the beginning of the semester. However, some people dropped out after 1st semester. As long as you stay till the end, you have about 50% chance getting in.
I hope this clears any confusion.
I hope this clears any confusion.
MIDDLETOWN CAMPUS FACEBOOK GROUPS!!
Touro COM Middletown MS Class of '17
https://www.facebook.com/groups/573068852872982/?ref=bookmarks
Touro Middletown - Housing
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1738659379751891/
Not true at all. There were about 70 kids at Harlem and about 60 kids at Middletown in the Master's program this year.
From Harlem, about 30-35/70 were taken, and from Middletown, about 20-25/60 were taken this past year. Very rough numbers.
I have finished the MS program at TouroCOM-Middletown. I would like to clear up some things and set them straight.
For my class- Total of 66 students by end of the semester, only 24 students have received an invitation to matriculate to the DO program class of 2020. Roughly a 1/3 get in (this is via the legitimate 3.5 GPA way). Special considerations are made to students who have a slightly lower GPA (around 3.45-3.49) as well as students who also applied to TouroCOM Middletown via AACOMAS while they were in the Masters program (and were granted an interview that went well).
For students coming into the masters program; understand this degree does not really help you. You have to work (extremely- I'll let you know why later on) hard to get the 3.5 GPA. You are in it to win it. You must get into the DO program otherwise you wasted your entire year and you are 40K in debt. If your MCAT score is low, chances are you will need to retake it again (even if you make the 3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive)- (Average MCAT - old scale was about a 27; I don't know anything about the new MCAT; anything less than a 23 requires a retake).
Exams are taken on Examsoft. Either on your laptop or use a PC in the library. You get $80 of print credit each semester. The IT staff is very helpful in case you run into technical difficulties. Clickers are... Clickers. Lab Practical is traditional, you go to various stations with a certain allotted time per station. Look and identify, write it down on your answer sheet and move on.
Grading- Courses are graded based on a curve. For an A you must score 1 standard deviation above the average. Half a standard deviation is roughly an A-. Average is usually a B+ (again, usually). Standard deviations will vary based on overall performance of your class. Harlem and Middletown students do not compete against each other (you are locked to compete within your school, and thus grades and standard deviations are calculated by each campus separately). Let the Hunger Games begin! For certain classes, the averages are extremely high; the 2nd semester for Immunology Exam 1- the average was about 95%. Those are B+ grades. To put this in perspective; in order to get an A (1 std dev above) on the first Immunology Exam, you can only miss 1-2 questions (out of 82 questions or >97.5%). This is due to the "curve" based grading. This is an extreme example, as certain other courses fall in normal and sometimes beneficial range. Don't ever count on the average; each exam you must aim for 100%, always. Majority of the courses have averages within the low to mid 80s. (not 70s as in traditional grading system; so the bell curve is shifted towards to 100 range, aka disadvantage).
Summer Classes- If you have the money to spend/waste, fine. Otherwise there is no point. The class is extremely rushed (an entire semester condensed to slightly more than a month), majority of the material you learn may help, but most likely you will be overwhelmed and start to panic. If you have taken Anatomy or Histology in the past, it may prove better as it becomes a quick refresher; but if you haven't learned the subject at all- good luck. However, these courses do give you a quick glimpse into the curriculum and the way the courses are taught (lecture style via videos), with clicker sessions in class. If you enjoy the curriculum, come stay for the entire year. If not, leave and avoid paying 40K for the entire year.
Dorms are in the same building as the school, managed by Horizon Student Housing. Main person to contact is Cindy Dickman, she is very nice and helpful via email correspondence and in-person. Avoid the meal plan if you can; Trust me.
Living is the dorms is extremely convenient. Classrooms/lecture halls and study rooms in the basement, 1st floor is administration, 2nd floor is faculty, Simulation lab, OMM lab, and Anatomy Lab. Dorms are from floors 3-5. Just walk downstairs to go to class, lab, study, take an exam- no need to commute through the weather, or deal with traffic. However understand, this is an old hospital building (very old) converted into a school and student housing. Things may not work from time to time (sometimes there is no hot water and you have to ice bath your way to cleanliness). Other times the water may be shut off completely to fix a broken main-pipe. When it snows/rains your room may drip. Dorm rooms are renovated, old patient rooms (the voices you hear on a cold winter night are all in your mind). Rent is reasonable and considerably cheaper than apartments nearby (you do not have to pay for TV, internet, electric, or heating; amenities are included along with a desk, bed, chair, tiny wall mounted flatscreen TV, and chest/drawers). However you cannot cook, as there is no range or stove anywhere. You are allowed to have a crock-pot, microwave, and mini fridge in your dorm room. There are communion showers, sink, refrigerator, microwave, and laundry machines (must pay using credit cards; there are laundromats locally if you want to use those instead). If the electricity goes out, the entire building can be ran on generators while the rest of the area is kept in the darkness.
Middletown, NY. Very rural area, about 1.5 to 2 hours from the NYC. If you like the city and urban areas, go/apply to Harlem. If you want things to do besides studying, go to Harlem. If you get into the DO program and would like a rotation spot in the city, go to Harlem.
Just.. go to Harlem.
There is parts of Middletown which reminds you of civilization, such as Starbucks, Chipotle, Walmart, Panera Bread all in the same complex. There is a local mall nearby (Galleria at Crystal Run). About 30 minutes south of Middletown, there is a nice outlet (Woodbury Commons, in case you want to buy stuff to fill the vast empty void in your.. well let's not go there). Chase Bank, BoA are in Middletown. Wells Fargo in Newburgh (15-20 minutes east).
There are nice places to hike and enjoy the outdoors (Ellenville Fault Ice Caves, Blue Mountain Park, etc). Local Gyms (Touro students have free YCMA membership- heated pool, tiny weightroom, basketball court, fitness classes (zumba, yoga)). Anytime Fitness is 24 hours, there is also a Planet Fitness, and a few local crossfit gyms. Gold's Gym in Newburgh and Monroe (near Woodbury Commons).
Comprehensive Exam- The entire year's material minus 3 courses (Medical Ethics, Health and Human Behavior (worst class I've had in my life), and Community Service). You must pass with 70% or higher to get the Masters' Degree and also to matriculate (along with 3.5 GPA). I wouldn't say this was easy, but if you made the 3.5 GPA; this shouldn't be too bad. Expect to prepare your own study guides based on professor's comprehensive exam objectives, or hopefully have friends you trust when spring break comes around to work together. Several students did not pass the comprehensive exam (about 8-9 students), but Touro lowered the passing cutoff to 65%. If you do not pass you will not matriculate into the DO program; however you can still retake the exam to earn your master's degree. There are talks to replace this with a research component, but don't hold your breath.
Bottom Line: You must work hard every day. Assume it is finals week, every week. Maybe give yourself a break every once in awhile (like right after exams). Schedule accordingly. Do not fall behind, once you do, it's over. This program is VERY, Highly stressful. You will see OMS1 students having fun and enjoying medical school while you are stuck in your dorm room (more like prison cell) studying all the intricacies of renal system and memorizing the blood supply, nerves, and muscles of the forearm and hand.
If you don't get accepted into the MS program, consider it a blessing in disguise. Take a MCAT class (much cheaper), or take a few months off to study. Postbacs improve your undergrad GPA, Master courses will not. There isn't much you can do with the Masters degree. If you are accepted, please evaluate your position accordingly before making a decision. This program is an investment/gamble in yourself. Are you willing to take the odds?
Hope this clarifies any questions and concerns.
For my class- Total of 66 students by end of the semester, only 24 students have received an invitation to matriculate to the DO program class of 2020. Roughly a 1/3 get in (this is via the legitimate 3.5 GPA way). Special considerations are made to students who have a slightly lower GPA (around 3.45-3.49) as well as students who also applied to TouroCOM Middletown via AACOMAS while they were in the Masters program (and were granted an interview that went well).
For students coming into the masters program; understand this degree does not really help you. You have to work (extremely- I'll let you know why later on) hard to get the 3.5 GPA. You are in it to win it. You must get into the DO program otherwise you wasted your entire year and you are 40K in debt. If your MCAT score is low, chances are you will need to retake it again (even if you make the 3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive)- (Average MCAT - old scale was about a 27; I don't know anything about the new MCAT; anything less than a 23 requires a retake).
Exams are taken on Examsoft. Either on your laptop or use a PC in the library. You get $80 of print credit each semester. The IT staff is very helpful in case you run into technical difficulties. Clickers are... Clickers. Lab Practical is traditional, you go to various stations with a certain allotted time per station. Look and identify, write it down on your answer sheet and move on.
Grading- Courses are graded based on a curve. For an A you must score 1 standard deviation above the average. Half a standard deviation is roughly an A-. Average is usually a B+ (again, usually). Standard deviations will vary based on overall performance of your class. Harlem and Middletown students do not compete against each other (you are locked to compete within your school, and thus grades and standard deviations are calculated by each campus separately). Let the Hunger Games begin! For certain classes, the averages are extremely high; the 2nd semester for Immunology Exam 1- the average was about 95%. Those are B+ grades. To put this in perspective; in order to get an A (1 std dev above) on the first Immunology Exam, you can only miss 1-2 questions (out of 82 questions or >97.5%). This is due to the "curve" based grading. This is an extreme example, as certain other courses fall in normal and sometimes beneficial range. Don't ever count on the average; each exam you must aim for 100%, always. Majority of the courses have averages within the low to mid 80s. (not 70s as in traditional grading system; so the bell curve is shifted towards to 100 range, aka disadvantage).
Summer Classes- If you have the money to spend/waste, fine. Otherwise there is no point. The class is extremely rushed (an entire semester condensed to slightly more than a month), majority of the material you learn may help, but most likely you will be overwhelmed and start to panic. If you have taken Anatomy or Histology in the past, it may prove better as it becomes a quick refresher; but if you haven't learned the subject at all- good luck. However, these courses do give you a quick glimpse into the curriculum and the way the courses are taught (lecture style via videos), with clicker sessions in class. If you enjoy the curriculum, come stay for the entire year. If not, leave and avoid paying 40K for the entire year.
Dorms are in the same building as the school, managed by Horizon Student Housing. Main person to contact is Cindy Dickman, she is very nice and helpful via email correspondence and in-person. Avoid the meal plan if you can; Trust me.
Living is the dorms is extremely convenient. Classrooms/lecture halls and study rooms in the basement, 1st floor is administration, 2nd floor is faculty, Simulation lab, OMM lab, and Anatomy Lab. Dorms are from floors 3-5. Just walk downstairs to go to class, lab, study, take an exam- no need to commute through the weather, or deal with traffic. However understand, this is an old hospital building (very old) converted into a school and student housing. Things may not work from time to time (sometimes there is no hot water and you have to ice bath your way to cleanliness). Other times the water may be shut off completely to fix a broken main-pipe. When it snows/rains your room may drip. Dorm rooms are renovated, old patient rooms (the voices you hear on a cold winter night are all in your mind). Rent is reasonable and considerably cheaper than apartments nearby (you do not have to pay for TV, internet, electric, or heating; amenities are included along with a desk, bed, chair, tiny wall mounted flatscreen TV, and chest/drawers). However you cannot cook, as there is no range or stove anywhere. You are allowed to have a crock-pot, microwave, and mini fridge in your dorm room. There are communion showers, sink, refrigerator, microwave, and laundry machines (must pay using credit cards; there are laundromats locally if you want to use those instead). If the electricity goes out, the entire building can be ran on generators while the rest of the area is kept in the darkness.
Middletown, NY. Very rural area, about 1.5 to 2 hours from the NYC. If you like the city and urban areas, go/apply to Harlem. If you want things to do besides studying, go to Harlem. If you get into the DO program and would like a rotation spot in the city, go to Harlem.
Just.. go to Harlem.
There is parts of Middletown which reminds you of civilization, such as Starbucks, Chipotle, Walmart, Panera Bread all in the same complex. There is a local mall nearby (Galleria at Crystal Run). About 30 minutes south of Middletown, there is a nice outlet (Woodbury Commons, in case you want to buy stuff to fill the vast empty void in your.. well let's not go there). Chase Bank, BoA are in Middletown. Wells Fargo in Newburgh (15-20 minutes east).
There are nice places to hike and enjoy the outdoors (Ellenville Fault Ice Caves, Blue Mountain Park, etc). Local Gyms (Touro students have free YCMA membership- heated pool, tiny weightroom, basketball court, fitness classes (zumba, yoga)). Anytime Fitness is 24 hours, there is also a Planet Fitness, and a few local crossfit gyms. Gold's Gym in Newburgh and Monroe (near Woodbury Commons).
Comprehensive Exam- The entire year's material minus 3 courses (Medical Ethics, Health and Human Behavior (worst class I've had in my life), and Community Service). You must pass with 70% or higher to get the Masters' Degree and also to matriculate (along with 3.5 GPA). I wouldn't say this was easy, but if you made the 3.5 GPA; this shouldn't be too bad. Expect to prepare your own study guides based on professor's comprehensive exam objectives, or hopefully have friends you trust when spring break comes around to work together. Several students did not pass the comprehensive exam (about 8-9 students), but Touro lowered the passing cutoff to 65%. If you do not pass you will not matriculate into the DO program; however you can still retake the exam to earn your master's degree. There are talks to replace this with a research component, but don't hold your breath.
Bottom Line: You must work hard every day. Assume it is finals week, every week. Maybe give yourself a break every once in awhile (like right after exams). Schedule accordingly. Do not fall behind, once you do, it's over. This program is VERY, Highly stressful. You will see OMS1 students having fun and enjoying medical school while you are stuck in your dorm room (more like prison cell) studying all the intricacies of renal system and memorizing the blood supply, nerves, and muscles of the forearm and hand.
If you don't get accepted into the MS program, consider it a blessing in disguise. Take a MCAT class (much cheaper), or take a few months off to study. Postbacs improve your undergrad GPA, Master courses will not. There isn't much you can do with the Masters degree. If you are accepted, please evaluate your position accordingly before making a decision. This program is an investment/gamble in yourself. Are you willing to take the odds?
Hope this clarifies any questions and concerns.
Last edited:
T
torontopharm
.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 22
Man after reading this I am REALLY hoping I get accepted into the one school I'm wait listed at
Based on the old scale, even if you do make the requirements (3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive), if your MCAT was less than 23 they can hold your spot for you, while you retake the MCAT. I did not do this, this is what I heard from some OMS I/II students from Harlem. I also don't know anything about the new MCAT , so the policy may have changed. They let you know during the interview of the Master's Program whether your MCAT score is too low, and may require a retake. So if nothing was mentioned about a retake and you were offered an acceptance into the program then you should be good (just get that 3.5 GPA and pass the comprehensive).
I am not trying to discourage you from the program, but I want you to understand what you are getting into. Ultimately you have the facts that I didn't have when I decided to attend the Master's Program a year ago.
Medical school applications are a struggle, I understand. I applied during the previous cycle and was waitlisted at 5 DO schools. For me, I felt like I couldn't just sit around and I wasn't sure how to improve my application. I had too many units in undergrad to boost my low GPA. My MCAT was already in the early 30s. So I decided to do the Master's Program and give it a shot. My reasoning is if I couldn't get a 3.5 GPA then maybe I shouldn't be a doctor.
T
torontopharm
Ah I see, there used to be a minimum MCAT requirement to apply for the program, if Touro said you don't have to retake it then that's great! I heard the new MCAT was a real doozy.
I wouldn't study anything in advance as long as you had taken the classes before (Anatomy, Histology, Physiology, Biochem, Genetics, etc). These courses are not covered as in-depth as they were in upper division undergrad, so mainly it will be refreshers. If you haven't taken the courses before, you can try an summer course if you have the money, but I would just enjoy the freedom and time you still have. You will have endless days and nights to study when you are there. Although when the semester starts, it is imperative to find the best and efficient method for studying. This program is very fast-paced.
For a slightly larger room it was $4850 per semester ( two hospital bed type-room with a full sized bed) compared to the single hospital bed-room (with a twin sized bed) which was $4550 per semester. I don't know the current price, I believe they raised it by $150 per semester for each room. There are also rooms with showers built-in with the bathroom, I assume these will cost even more. Please contact Cindy Dickman, to reserve a room and for more info on the pricing. There was a $250 and a $750 deposit. You will get $750 back when you move out.
** If you have any questions, msg me.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 22
If you don't mind me asking, did you end up getting into the D.O. program through the Touro masters?
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
Harlem MS student here..prospective students, both JournaL and I have given you an honest perspective of the masters program. Don't be afraid to seriously consider an MCAT re-take if need be. The MCAT is stressful and annoying but this program isn't a walk in the park either.
Previous masters student here. I agree 100% with what is written above and I really urge you to think twice before committing to this program. I was in your position last year - feeling hopeless and this program truly sparked my interest and gave me hope in gaining a medical school acceptance. However, no one was there to warn me (or anyone in my class) about the reality of this program.
Chances are, you are a student who has either a low GPA, low MCAT, or both - and that was certainly the case for me. But think about something logically...if you are not able to pull off those grades in undergrad, how will you be able to do well in these exams? These are medical school level classes, and as mentioned above, some classes need the >95% on exams to get the A. Will you be able to pull that off? You can sit and say "I will work harder than I did in undergrad" until you're blue in the face but the truth is, you are putting yourself at risk for a lot of debt, and worst of all: you will leave this school with a transcript that shows that you performed poorly, which will show other med schools that you cannot handle these classes.
Personally, I was offered an acceptance but I will be attending another DO school in the fall. There are tons of things that I really disliked about the MT campus, but the worst of all is that administration breaks so many ethical and moral principles and everyone seems to be aware of it. You can feel free to ask any 1st/2nd year and I'm sure they will agree on this. I would NEVER want to learn how to become a good doctor from a school that is consistently treats their students so unfairly. I won't get into all of it, but I will give you an example just so you don't think I am someone who is just whining:
One exam we took had a number of the same questions repeated due to the fault of the professor or the exam program (who knows). Basically, the same question showed up twice on an exam, and there were a few of these. Rather than dropping the extra questions, the faculty kept all the questions on that exam. If you got both those questions right, then congrats - you got double credit on your test. However, if you got both those questions wrong, you had double points taken off of your exam. This seems minor, but this meant that if you got 2 of those repeated questions wrong, you got 4 questions wrong. 3 questions = 6 questions, etc. This is a HUGE deal when it comes to Masters students who are fighting for every point. But the admin seemed to think this was the "fairest" way to do it, despite the pleas of tons of Masters students and first years.
Bottom line: if you can re-take your MCAT, you will be much better off. If you do not get accepted to this program, consider yourself lucky.
***Also, keep in mind that the Middletown DO program is not yet accredited - they operate under Harlem's accreditation. To my knowledge, they will be accredited if the current 2nd year students do well on the COMLEX, but just something to keep in the back of your mind that this is also another risk you are taking as there is no guarantee that they will be accredited after this year.
Chances are, you are a student who has either a low GPA, low MCAT, or both - and that was certainly the case for me. But think about something logically...if you are not able to pull off those grades in undergrad, how will you be able to do well in these exams? These are medical school level classes, and as mentioned above, some classes need the >95% on exams to get the A. Will you be able to pull that off? You can sit and say "I will work harder than I did in undergrad" until you're blue in the face but the truth is, you are putting yourself at risk for a lot of debt, and worst of all: you will leave this school with a transcript that shows that you performed poorly, which will show other med schools that you cannot handle these classes.
Personally, I was offered an acceptance but I will be attending another DO school in the fall. There are tons of things that I really disliked about the MT campus, but the worst of all is that administration breaks so many ethical and moral principles and everyone seems to be aware of it. You can feel free to ask any 1st/2nd year and I'm sure they will agree on this. I would NEVER want to learn how to become a good doctor from a school that is consistently treats their students so unfairly. I won't get into all of it, but I will give you an example just so you don't think I am someone who is just whining:
One exam we took had a number of the same questions repeated due to the fault of the professor or the exam program (who knows). Basically, the same question showed up twice on an exam, and there were a few of these. Rather than dropping the extra questions, the faculty kept all the questions on that exam. If you got both those questions right, then congrats - you got double credit on your test. However, if you got both those questions wrong, you had double points taken off of your exam. This seems minor, but this meant that if you got 2 of those repeated questions wrong, you got 4 questions wrong. 3 questions = 6 questions, etc. This is a HUGE deal when it comes to Masters students who are fighting for every point. But the admin seemed to think this was the "fairest" way to do it, despite the pleas of tons of Masters students and first years.
Bottom line: if you can re-take your MCAT, you will be much better off. If you do not get accepted to this program, consider yourself lucky.
***Also, keep in mind that the Middletown DO program is not yet accredited - they operate under Harlem's accreditation. To my knowledge, they will be accredited if the current 2nd year students do well on the COMLEX, but just something to keep in the back of your mind that this is also another risk you are taking as there is no guarantee that they will be accredited after this year.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
I personally aced the exam that is being mentioned here so I was lucky not to be one of those unfortunate students who got 14 points off if they incorrectly answered 7 repeat questions. Everyone was pretty flabbergasted when it was announced that the repeated questions (which I genuinely thought were intentionally placed) would not be dropped.
One of my biggest gripes with the masters program is something I've mentioned before: the grading system. When some of my friends at other medical schools receive an 80 on an exam, they're thrilled. Heck, when Touro med students received an 80 on an exam, it was all good. An 80 in the masters program is not enough. Most often, a 90 is not always going to be enough. On any given night at 2am on the Harlem campus, you will only find masters students burning the midnight oil. We aren't exaggerating: every single point does count. (Don't blow off clickers, I've heard of more than one person who missed out on an A- due to poor clicker attendance)
Note: if you're a non-science major and/or it's been a few years since you graduated from college, you're most likely going to have to work extra hard. If you got a 20 on the MCAT, you WILL be classmates with a Biology major who graduated from college last semester and got a 30 on the MCAT. That is your competition, that's literally who you have to beat to get what you want.
"I'm going to kick ass and prove everyone wrong" sounds great in theory, just make sure you know what you're getting into.
On a positive note, in the event that you don't get accepted to the DO program, the faculty is willing to write letters of recommendation in the event that you decide to reapply to medical school.
Just finished the MS program at Harlem.
I thought I should say a few words since there is so much negativity here. I am writing this because I don't want all the students accepted and future students to feel discouraged. This program is a great opportunity for students to get an idea of what medical school will be like. It is definitely challenging and will push you to your limits. Don't let the averages scare you! Yes there will always be a high average in immuno but that class is taught really well and the exams are fair so everyone tends to do well. You can't worry about averages and standard deviations, the goal should always be to get 100. This pushes you to be the best you can be!! The program is really not as bad as everyone is making it seem. I personally didn't have the highest MCAT score or the greatest GPA and I did really well in the program (and no I wasn't in the library until 2am). I also believe that the program really helps you get a head start in medical school. Taking all these courses twice also gives you a huge advantage on board exams. Once again, if you are starting the masters program this year or in the future, do not feel dispirited! Feel free to message me with any questions.
I thought I should say a few words since there is so much negativity here. I am writing this because I don't want all the students accepted and future students to feel discouraged. This program is a great opportunity for students to get an idea of what medical school will be like. It is definitely challenging and will push you to your limits. Don't let the averages scare you! Yes there will always be a high average in immuno but that class is taught really well and the exams are fair so everyone tends to do well. You can't worry about averages and standard deviations, the goal should always be to get 100. This pushes you to be the best you can be!! The program is really not as bad as everyone is making it seem. I personally didn't have the highest MCAT score or the greatest GPA and I did really well in the program (and no I wasn't in the library until 2am). I also believe that the program really helps you get a head start in medical school. Taking all these courses twice also gives you a huge advantage on board exams. Once again, if you are starting the masters program this year or in the future, do not feel dispirited! Feel free to message me with any questions.
Last edited:
You are saying yourself that the goal should be "to always get a 100". That's a lot harder said than done. I honestly don't know of anyone who has ever gotten a 100 on an exam (in my group of friends, who mostly made it). It's not easy. It does push you but that is only if you are the type of person that can handle the classes. If you are not, you will walk away from this program with a transcript saying you received B's and C's in med school level classes, which basically kills your chances at any future med school. I'm not saying it cant be done (I did it as well) but I'm saying its going to be very difficult and the easier (and cheaper) option would be to re-take the MCAT or go to another school.
Besides the grading, I think future students should be aware of what kind of stuff going on "backstage" at Touro that people don't like to discuss. A lot of my frustration came from the fact that I think that certain things weren't done fairly. Another example - on one of our genetics exams, there was a question that only 3% of students got correct. Aka, about 12 students out of 400 got it right (between the masters and DO at both campuses). Faculty still didn't drop this question, despite how many people said it wasn't fair to keep this question. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about any of these. But a year ago, I would have liked to know things like this before coming to this program.
Last edited:
I am not saying to actually get a 100, but to always set high goals for yourself. If someone is getting C's in these courses then obviously that person is not ready for medical school. I'm not saying they should never be a physician, just saying they wouldn't be ready for medical school considering the fact that the DO's have 3 extra classes to take on top of everything the master students were taking.
And yeah I know exactly what question you are talking about, yes we should of got that one question back. But they wanted to make a point for people to actually start doing the clinical vignettes because the answer was stated in one of them.
I agree with what you're saying - but the thing I am trying to warn people of is that this program holds a lot of weight for future applications to medical schools. If you go into this program without being ready for med school, you will get the C's (like you stated). But what will end up happening is that person will complete the program, go to reapply to other med schools, but will get rejected because the med schools will see that this person got C's in regular classes like Anatomy, Histo, Biochem, etc. And in this program specifically, if you are getting high 70's or low 80's in classes with high averages, you will get the C. That is why I think it is easier to just retake the MCAT. One poor MCAT score can be made up, but a year of poor grades in this program will kill/highly diminish your chances at any future med school acceptance.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
Just a thought, but wouldn't someone like myself who has done poorly on the mcat more than once benefit from this program if accepted? Only because at this point multiple mcats may hurt?
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
If you were accepted to the DO program, that means that you got upwards of 90+ on every exam for both semesters. It's important for prospective students to know that that is what's required for this program. YOU might not have been in the library until 2am but that is you. There are people who are gonna have to do that in order to succeed. "Everyone tends to do well" is not helpful to anyone in this program. It's about being transparent, not negativity. Yes, let the averages scare you! Because you have to be realistic and get your money's worth in this program. Frankly, it's a bit silly to say not to worry about averages and SDs when that's what we did after every single exam for the entire year. Now that you have an acceptance, it's easy to say that. Prospectives, keep in mind that the average for most exams is 82 and the SD is about 12 or so. Do the math, guys. I'm only saying the things that I wish were said to me before I started the program.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
Do the program and kill it. The very last thing you want is to not get into this program and have to answer for your bad MCAT scores.
I would say it depends on the reason you did badly:
A) You studied extremely hard but the material was too much -> think twice about going into this program. This program will not specifically test orgo, physics or general chemistry but almost all the bio topics will be gone over at a faster and more in depth pace. If you cannot understand it for the MCAT despite having studied efficiently for the appropriate amount of time, I would highly recommend that you sit and think about what everyone above has mentioned and be HONEST with yourself. You might lose more than you may gain by coming into this program (i.e., imagine walking out of a med school master's with a 2.0 final GPA)
B) You didn't study efficiently/didn't have enough time to study, but you have fixed your study habits since then and have seen improvement -> in this case, by all means go for it. Keep on working hard and seek out help from professors if you need it. But if you can get through it, you will come out stronger on the other side.
C) You didn't study efficiently/didn't have enough time to study, and seem to still have that problem -> I would strongly suggest not doing the program in this case. This program is about 9 months long and everything is fast paced. You cannot afford to spend time attempting different study methods. In some classes, each exam is 30% of your grade and if you mess up that first exam, you are already out of the running for the A or A- in that class. If you can find a 2 year master's program, I think that would be a better option in this case.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from this program. I am just giving you information that I had wished someone told me. This will be, by far, the most stressful year of your life. Almost everyone works hard. Even those who are doing badly and are getting 40's on exams are still working hard. You will have constant stress and anxiety and most of the time you will not feel like your grades are good enough. If a class average is 94%, you will need the 100 to get the A. It will not be easy. Know what you are getting yourself into and if you are sure that you can do it, go for it.
Not true at all. Really did not get above 90 on every exam (especially first semester). And I clearly wrote don't worry about averages and SDs because the goal should be to do the absolute best you can and not get caught up on trying to beat SD. I almost never beat SD first semester and did well. It's great that you are sharing your thoughts, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Yes this program is really tough and it will be the most academically challenging year of your life, but its a great program for someone that just doesn't want to retake the mcat or just wants to improve themselves as a student before entering medical school.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
Did you matriculate? I'm assuming you had the 3.5?
yupp
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
Congrats!
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
Congrats on your acceptance. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Even though you'll have to worry about beating the SD to get an A, numerically speaking...but I digress!
Incoming students, just work as hard as possible!
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 21
I love you guys. I'm not even sure which of my class mates you where, but I love you. Lol this thread was really entertaining to read. <3 congrats on making it through you previous masters, and best of luck to all of you incoming masters <3 If you choose to do the MS Program...without a doubt, you will learn a lot this year, about science, and about yourselves. See you in Harlem!!!!
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 21
Oh yea, I want to add...after the program they emailed us (MS 2016) about possibly helping some students get into either the podiatry school, or the pharmacy school...idk the details because I'm not interested. But they said (for the podiatry school) on a case by case basis they would offer an advanced standing path for those wishing to apply, and depending on their stats they may be a candidate for the advance tract or the 4 year program...and the application process would be sped up for them. So if you go through this and realize you don't want to be a physician or don't make it and still don't want to be a physician, tourocom doesn't completely leave you out in the cold, especially if you're interested in podiatry or pharmacy
For my first semester, I did not beat the STD deviation and got blindsided by B+s instead of A-s (Harlem and Middletown have different averages and different Std Deviations). It wasn't until after the 1st semester I knew how the grading works, Touro did not explain grades, until midway through the 2nd semester, which was way too late. The faculty was still "deciding" on a fair way to grade; agreeable by all professors at the end of the 1st semester... Growing pains I guess.
Goal is always to aim 100, but lets say you end up with a 92 and the average was 87 with a std deviation of 11. That means only 97% or above get an A. Half a std deviation 5.5, so 92.5%. Between 92.5% and 96.999 is an A-. Your 92 becomes a B+. If the Standard deviation was 9, or 10 then your 92 was an A-. Although when studying this isn't something you should be focused on because that isn't something you have control over (based on other students). But after the test is taken, all you can do is worry, until the stats come out.
Averages and STD deviations do matter in terms of grades. Always aim for 100, I agree, but like at Middletown where the averages are consistently higher, you just have to work that much harder.
This program is mainly the last chance. You have exhausted your MCAT options (otherwise why not just retake the MCAT? Even the most expensive MCAT course is only 1/4 of what you will spend here from out of state). If you can't do well on a MCAT type test, how can you pass the boards? Material is different but test style is almost exactly the same (Verbal is very important).
What can you do with the Master's degree offered from Touro? Maybe teach at a community college? This program will not boost your undergrad GPA. Hopefully you can reapply next cycle while in the program, where your MCAT still valid, otherwise you will retake it again.
Sorry if I am a bit irrational here. Maybe the program isn't that bad.
I have made several friends in this program, and even though we competed against each other, we shared a bond, helped each other, and studied together. I firsthand saw how much work and effort they gave into this program (a lot more than I did) and still ended up not matriculating into the DO program. They are now studying to retake the MCAT. They are in the same position as a year ago, but now one year wasted and 40K in debt.
This is the worst case scenario. But for 35+ students this past year at Middletown Masters, this scenario was the reality for them.
To put it in perspective as a Middletown student, our anatomy II class average for the SEMESTER was a 90%. If you got a 90%, you received a B+ for the semester (which is a 3.33 on a GPA scale). For our anatomy II practical, the class average was a 94.48%, and the SD was 5. Therefore, if you got a 100% (40/40 questions correct), you got the A. If you got 1 wrong, you were down to a 97.5%, which would give you the A-. If you got two wrong, you got 95%, which came out to the B+.
I'm really not trying to discourage anyone but I just want people to understand what they are getting themselves into. If you are between two masters program, or are considering other options, just please think of this stuff before attending this program. This is not coming from someone who is bitter about not getting in - I was offered an acceptance but I am choosing to go somewhere else.
I'm really not trying to discourage anyone but I just want people to understand what they are getting themselves into. If you are between two masters program, or are considering other options, just please think of this stuff before attending this program. This is not coming from someone who is bitter about not getting in - I was offered an acceptance but I am choosing to go somewhere else.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 21
If you haven't been scared off by the past few posts and are still coming to Tourocom for the MS program, know that second semester is where you really see the crazy high scores mentioned above...The entire program isn't like that (where you can only get one question wrong to get an A). First semester averages are not as high, probably because people are still getting used to the work load and new study methods. That's why I think if you're going to come here, go hard from day one. Get those high scores in the first semester because beating the SD (and even just coming close) is MUCH easier to do in the first semester. It gets harder second semester after everyone sees their first semester GPAs and ups the fight so they can make it. Just go hard from the beginning, secure a good gpa, then maintain it the next semester. I wasn't too stressed second semester because I gave myself lots of wiggle room with my GPA. Do your best to do the same.
It's funny that most of the comments lately are from previous masters. I hope we didn't scare off you prospective students lol
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 219
- Reaction score
- 103
Hi, if a person in still Intesrested in applying to allopathic school in the next year. Do you guy know how this allopathic school could possibly look upon the MS degree from an osteopathic school? Has anyone in your class gotten into MD schools. Thanks for your response
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
Hi there! As far as I know, not many (if any at all) of my classmates applied to medical school while doing this program. But TBH, the classes you'll take in this program are all first (and second) year courses. So you'll have that prior knowledge which will be invaluable to you...and you'll have a graduate degree. I'm not sure how or why MD schools would look down on that, especially if you perform well in the Touro Masters courses. Perhaps they'd wonder if you had a true interest in osteopathy..not sure. Good luck either way!
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 219
- Reaction score
- 103
Hi there! As far as I know, not many (if any at all) of my classmates applied to medical school while doing this program. But TBH, the classes you'll take in this program are all first (and second) year courses. So you'll have that prior knowledge which will be invaluable to you...and you'll have a graduate degree. I'm not sure how or why MD schools would look down on that, especially if you perform well in the Touro Masters courses. Perhaps they'd wonder if you had a true interest in osteopathy..not sure. Good luck either way!
@hellobello18 Did you mean to say valuable ? Thank for your input. Does anyone know the link to the Facebook page for the class of 2017.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
How large is the incoming class usually?
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
invaluable: extremely useful; indispensable.
"an invaluable source of information"
synonyms: indispensable, crucial, critical, key, vital, necessary, irreplaceable, all-important
(i had to double check that on google
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
70-something. I believe we started with 82 and finished with 72-74, can't remember the exact number.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
Oh ok and I know only like 20-30 got into the DO program after
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2015
- Messages
- 219
- Reaction score
- 103
Hi everyone, I will be attending the Harlem campus this fall. Currently reside in Miami. Does anyone have good information and reliable sources for housing ? Is it feasible to live in New Jersey and possibly take a train to Harlem. If so what part of New Jersey? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 3
Look on the Harlem-Master's 2017 facebook page
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 22
Quick question, if I were to complete the M.S. program at Touro Middletown with a 3.5 or higher and gain acceptance into the school of Osteopathic Medicine would I be able to transfer to the Harlem campus for med school?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 378
- Reaction score
- 308
Ask them why not? Honestly though I applied to Harlem and got my MS app sent to Middletown (and got in there) so my thought process is wherever you get in for the MS you do med school at. But hey hopefully my assumptions are wrong because you probably want to go to Harlem right?
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 100
Anything is possible at Touro but it appears that Middletown MS kids stay at Middletown and Harlem MS kids stay at Harlem for med school. So no transferring, unfortunately. Never hurts to ask someone at school though!
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 21
They emailed us Harlem kids (masters class of 2016) a few weeks ago about if we wanted to go to the Middletown DO program instead (I think they said 3 spots). One of my close friends is going. So it is possible to go from Harlem MS to Middletown DO, but I don't know anyone going Middletown MS to Harlem DO.
