Transfer Question (MCPHS, What are my odds?)

[revoltingtomato]

Hi, I am currently trying to get into MCPHS' Pharm.D program. I have worked and is still working as a pharmacy technician for a little more than a year now. The only probable thorn in my side is my high school transcript, which could cripple my chances of getting an acceptance to the program. Anyways, here's my personal info./spec

GPA: 3.9
Prerequisites fulfilled: Check (All community college-earned credits)
PT License: Nationally-certified

I am aware of the fact that you'd need a Bachelor's degree to cover up your messy high school transcript; those who are in possession of a Bachelor's degree does not need to show their high school transcript to the school. Also, since I've earned more than 30 credits from a 2-year college, I wouldn't need to send scores for SAT or ACT either. According to my transfer advisor, it'd be rare for a pharmacy school to allow someone from a community college to enter their Pharm.D program. Before putting up this post here, I've posted similar questions on the web and answers to my questions were mostly positive in the perspective that I'd get an acceptance. Moreover, I've heard that MCPHS has much higher rate of acceptance than any other pharmacy school in the country. I may be downright cocky here, but I'd still like to know if I could take a shot at this. I mean, if I have a chance of getting into the school, spending two-extra years at 4-year school would be quite redundant thing to do, right? Please give me an objective answer and I'd appreciate it if those who are currently attending/applying to MCPHS are available to provide an answer to my question. Thanks.

P.S. I've earned all 33 core credits and 30 more from Massbay community college. Prior to my attendance at the said community college, I've attended another community college in New York. And as some of you may have guessed, my grades were rock bottom. (Two-semester worth of credits and one-full semester streak of withdrawal's) I did not transfer any of the credits from this school in New York to Massbay. Would I still need to have the New York's community college to send a college transcript, which is basically three, dull semester worth of my personal background, to MCPHS?

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[EBT12]

You will be required to submit your transcripts from all institutions that you have attended. The university will likely calculate your transcript "in-house" based on all of your coursework, which may be problematic. Have you retaken all of the courses that you did not successfully pass or withdrew from?

This is just my opinion, but many (not all) community colleges do not have the same standards as 4 year universities. It may be difficult to transition to a professional level program if you have only attended a community college. I am not familiar with your specific community college, but many only offer freshman and sophomore level courses. Many pharmacy schools are quite competitive and encourage upper level science courses, even if a bachelor's degree is not required. Additionally, upper level science courses can help "prove" that you will be able to handle the rigors of pharmacy school. Just food for thought.

 

[revoltingtomato]

You will be required to submit your transcripts from all institutions that you have attended. The university will likely calculate your transcript "in-house" based on all of your coursework, which may be problematic. Have you retaken all of the courses that you did not successfully pass or withdrew from?

This is just my opinion, but many (not all) community colleges do not have the same standards as 4 year universities. It may be difficult to transition to a professional level program if you have only attended a community college. I am not familiar with your specific community college, but many only offer freshman and sophomore level courses. Many pharmacy schools are quite competitive and encourage upper level science courses, even if a bachelor's degree is not required. Additionally, upper level science courses can help "prove" that you will be able to handle the rigors of pharmacy school. Just food for thought.

Uhh, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are misunderstanding my question here. It's not that I am trying to submit anything in accordance to the GPA, credits, list of courses, and etc. from the New York's community college, but whether or not it is required of me, as in legality, to submit the said document to MCPHS. In other words, would they know if I, y'know, do not submit anything or badger me to send them the transcript from the institution under such conditions? I've asked my transfer advisor the same question and he told me that under normal circumstances the school would not know whether or not I've attended an institution or not unless I inform them of the news. So, I was just wondering whether or not the issue would involve law in it. If not, is it just one of those frugal things you may or may not need to consider? Just checking to see if the roof's okay, that's all.

Actually, though the Massbay community college hasn't formed any transfer agreement with MCPHS to produce pharmacy students, but the pharmacy school allows the transfer of credits (Core Credits, II year only) from Massbay. That is, if you do get an acceptance to the school.

 

[EBT12]

Based on theMCPHS application checklist, you are required to complete the PharmCas application. According to the PharmCas website (they capitalized this info, not me):

1. Use to "PharmCAS Transcript Request Form" to arrange for ALL of your OFFICIAL transcripts from regionally accredited US institutions to be received at the PharmCAS office by the application deadline! If you do not submit the transcript request for with each transcript, your application file may be delayed in processing.
2. Enter ALL of your U.S. coursework on your application using personal copies of your transcripts. Do not enter foreign courses.

The applicant code of conduct that you must agree to as part of PharmCas is here. I suppose it is up to you whether to abide by the code of conduct, but universities had very little tolerance for "unprofessional behaviors."

If that doesn't answer your question, maybe someone else has additional insight. Alternatively, a lawyer would be able to give actual legal advise. I personally wouldn't rely on an online forum for legal advise.

 

[revoltingtomato]

Based on theMCPHS application checklist, you are required to complete the PharmCas application. According to the PharmCas website (they capitalized this info, not me):

1. Use to "PharmCAS Transcript Request Form" to arrange for ALL of your OFFICIAL transcripts from regionally accredited US institutions to be received at the PharmCAS office by the application deadline! If you do not submit the transcript request for with each transcript, your application file may be delayed in processing.
2. Enter ALL of your U.S. coursework on your application using personal copies of your transcripts. Do not enter foreign courses.

The applicant code of conduct that you must agree to as part of PharmCas is here. I suppose it is up to you whether to abide by the code of conduct, but universities had very little tolerance for "unprofessional behaviors."

If that doesn't answer your question, maybe someone else has additional insight. Alternatively, a lawyer would be able to give actual legal advise. I personally wouldn't rely on an online forum for legal advise.

I see. Thank you for taking your time. Sorry, if I got too carried away with my questions.

 

[revoltingtomato]

I've attended two community colleges and is currently considering an option to earn Bachelor's from a 4-year University to further satisfy requirements for MCPHS' Pharm.D. If I were to choose not to spend the next two-years at a 4-year U. for the said purpose and submit an application to PharmCAS without a Bachelor's, would I be subjected to send a college transcript from each of the two different community colleges or would that choice be given to me? All of the prerequisite courses, including the core classes, were fulfilled/taken at only one of the two community colleges. The three-semesters that I've spent at another community college were quite a failure, btw. And because I personally do not see any reason or benefit from making a request to have the latter to send its kept transcript to MCPHS, I am closely leaning towards the option of choosing the "big no." The only problem in all this is that PharmCAS wants to view all of the courses that I've taken in the U.S. (From an accredited college or university), but I am not sure just how broad they mean by all. I mean, yes. I am aware of the fact that they might want to see all the prerequisites that I've completed at a college, but does that include a transcript that is, by a big margin, irrelevant to what they may require of me?

 

[Farmercyst]

I've attended two community colleges and is currently considering an option to earn Bachelor's from a 4-year University to further satisfy requirements for MCPHS' Pharm.D. If I were to choose not to spend the next two-years at a 4-year U. for the said purpose and submit an application to PharmCAS without a Bachelor's, would I be subjected to send a college transcript from each of the two different community colleges or would that choice be given to me? All of the prerequisite courses, including the core classes, were fulfilled/taken at only one of the two community colleges. The three-semesters that I've spent at another community college were quite a failure, btw. And because I personally do not see any reason or benefit from making a request to have the latter to send its kept transcript to MCPHS, I am closely leaning towards the option of choosing the "big no." The only problem in all this is that PharmCAS wants to view all of the courses that I've taken in the U.S. (From an accredited college or university), but I am not sure just how broad they mean by all. I mean, yes. I am aware of the fact that they might want to see all the prerequisites that I've completed at a college, but does that include a transcript that is, by a big margin, irrelevant to what they may require of me?

I have merged your threads since the question in the new thread is contained in your original thread.
As for an answer, I'd suggest politics. Trying to twist the definition of a word as simple as ALL to allow you to defraud a college adcom is certainly unethical and much more suited to the stereotypical lawyer/politician than to a pharmacist.
All does mean each and every transcipt from any institution regardless of how good or poor your precious performance and regardless of the coursework's relevancy to pharmacy.
As for your chances that depeds on your actual GPA as I imagine the 3.9 doesn't include ALL your coursework.

 

[revoltingtomato]

Hey, guys. So, umm, I've checked what to make of my current status and found out that post the addition of courses from the New York's community college would give me a rough total GPA, overall GPA, of 3.5~3.6, which is 0.3~0.4 less than what my originally "thought-to-be" overall GPA. So, if I were to take the option of earning a Bachelor's at a 4-year institution, the extra course from that school would give me 0.1 boost for my GPA. On top of that, I wouldn't have to be stressed out about revealing my high school transcript to anyone, which is a good thing. So, do you think it'd be worth the extra time and money for me to spend the following two-years at another instution to get my Bachelor's? Also, according to the "Doctor of Pharmacy Transfer Credit Evaluation, 'Massbay Community College,'" with the credits earned from that community college, I would only be eligible to try to get an acceptance from MCPHS as the second-year of Pharm.D candidate. Would that statement be overridden once I earn a Bachelor's degree, or would it stay that way unless Massbay were to sign a new contract with MCPHS or I were to take core-classes at a 4-year U.?

 

[xtsukiyox]

I must preface this by saying that I don't know about MCPHS's program, so the information I am using is all coming from their website. It is a pretty dense website, so I may have missed something.

Here's what I was able to glean:
- MCPHS is a 0-6 program
- Students can apply for advanced standing (matriculating as P2 or P3 students) based on completed coursework outside MCPHS.
- None of the classes I saw were higher than 200 level classes, so it may be possible to do the coursework at a community college.
- If applying without a BS/BA, you must provide your high school transcript to the school.
- Either way, you must provide all coursework completed at a college as part of the PharmCAS process.

I may be misreading your intent, but as above posters have pointed out, it really sounds like you're trying to dodge. The academic standards are there for a reason. Yes, I understand you may have not done well in freshman year - many people did not. But each candidate is on equal footing, and the guidelines are there to make sure each candidate is reviewed in an equitable and fair fashion. As Farmercyst pointed out, it is an act of academic dishonesty to not send all of your credits.

On the flip side, a 3.5-3.6 is still a competitive GPA. Even if you had a poorer GPA, what most pharmacy schools are really interested in is your recent performance. They want to see that you've completed the foundational courses (like Gen Chem, O Chem, A&P) demonstrating good competency (read, high grade). Also, if you had a poor GPA, they'd want to see an upward trend to prove that you are, right now, a good student that has a good chance to make it through their program. You also have pharmacy experience, which is a plus.

If you want to apply to MCPHS's program without a BS/BA, you must provide high school transcripts. If you don't want to provide high school transcripts, your only choice would be to complete the undergrad degree, which - as you pointed out - would add 2 years to your education path. Since the last 4 years of the program are specifically PharmD work, it doesn't appear that you'd be able to matriculate as higher than a P3 student (that is, having completed the first 2 years of classes), and that seems to make sense to me.

Are you only interested in going to MCPHS? The purpose of a 0-6 program is so they tack on the prereqs to the beginning of the program, so it is intended for students directly out of high school. Due to its target audience, MCPHS does require the high school transcript where many other schools do not.

I would never recommend that an applicant pin hopes on one school. What are you going to do if you don't get in? What is your contingency plan? Are you really OK with sitting out for a year? My situation was unique - I really could say "yes," that I would have been fine with waiting. My contingency plan was to apply more broadly next cycle (still including my #1 school), but I had many good reasons for not wanting to relocate. (I have a committed relationship here - and he'd have to find a job / school in wherever I ended up, I have a support system here, I own a house 20 min from my #1 choice, and I have a job I've been at for 7.5 years I could just stay at for another year, among other things.) If you do not have serious extenuating circumstances, I would suggest applying to at least a few schools.

While the standard is becoming a bachelor degree prior to matriculation, there are still many schools that do not require it. A better plan might be to apply within a year of finishing the prereqs; if you don't get in, then transfer to a 4-year and start working on your undergrad degree. Apply again next cycle; if you don't get in, keep working on your undergrad for another year. You would also check with the schools you apply to, if you didn't get in, and work on improving your application between cycles. I think you've got a good shot based on the limited information you've provided, so it will probably all be a moot point.

A word about community colleges: The quality of community colleges differs all across the US. In some places, I've heard it's more like an extension of high school. In my area, the community colleges are held to the same standard as the public universities, because they have specific transfer agreements. It just happens to be cheaper, easier to schedule, and often a smaller class, all three of which worked out well for me. The academic advisors really try to get you on a transfer schedule and encourage students to move from an associate degree straight to the state schools to finish up their bachelor degree.

The school I got into (MWU-CPG) is local, so they seemed to understand how the CC system here works. Something like 70+ percent of previous students had a bachelor degree prior to matriculation into their program; about 10-15% had associates. A very small group had no degree. (I would have fallen into the "no degree" category, but I've meandered so much around the CC system trying to figure out what I want to do, I only had to take one extra class to finish all the requirements. ) Both the CC system AND the CoP's percentage of associate / no degree seem to be the exception to the rule.

 

[revoltingtomato]

Oh, and from whom should I get my LOR's from? Luckily, I've managed to build up relationships with whose recommendations could make my transfer process a lot smoother; three professors (English, Chemistry, & Psychology), a pharmacist (my current employer at CVS), and a transfer advisor from my CC. All of them gave me a "yes" for an answer and they were my closest mentors as well as peers for almost three-years now. I am throwing this question here because I wanted to know if there's a certain preference as to whom the LOR's came from for pharmacy schools. According to the PharmCAS MCPHS page, you can only provide them two LOR's to make your profile pretty.

P.S. As of now, I am thinking of having my chemistry professor and my employer to write those letters for me.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Since it sounds like all of those people would write you a good LOR, I agree with your choices. Keep them in your back pocket in case you decide to apply elsewhere, since different schools may want to see different letters.

As an aside, I read about all these people trying to find 4 LORs and fulfill conflicting requirements within only 4... and I have to think... Man, only having to get 2 in was painless.