Transition from the bench back to rotations

[Oceandust]

I'm returning to 4th yr of medical school two years after being at the bench. I'm trying to prepare for being back on the wards and getting geared up for residency applications.

Would anyone recommend a good rotation [ambulatory medicine, primary care?] to do before doing my ophtho month at my home school? Since it's been awhile since I've been on the wards, I'd like to get my feet wet again with basic H&Ps, etc so I won't be completely inept when I do my ophtho month, which will be a rotation that counts.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a rotation? And for that month before the important ophtho rotation, ophtho books to get me back in the swing of things?

I am interested in a basic science career in ophthalmology where I see patients but hopefully run some type of lab, in an "20/80" situation. I've done alot of work with basic signalling in neural stem cells, and would like to apply some of the same assays to embryonic retinal precursors. So I'm really hoping to end up at a program with both a strong research and clinical ophtho department.

I know there are several great programs, and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to do an away after my home rotation at such a program. Problem is, I don't really about any of the specifics of the research-oriented ophtho depts, and right now, I don't know if there is one specific program which would be a good match. In which case, given that I've been away from the clinic for awhile, is it a good idea to do an away?

Finally, if I do an away, the only opening I have is early Sept to early October. Is that too late to do an away? I'm assuming I will get LORs from an ophtho person at my school, my research mentor for 2 years, and...is it better to get a medicine LOR or one potentially from someone I work with at the away rotation?

I'd really appreciate any advice!

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[splice]

I'd like to get my feet wet again with basic H&Ps, etc so I won't be completely inept when I do my ophtho month, which will be a rotation that counts.

Anything really. How about ED?

And for that month before the important ophtho rotation, ophtho books to get me back in the swing of things?

Check out Ophthalmology Secrets, it is awesome. One of my attendings even bought my copy off me after thumbing through it.

In which case, given that I've been away from the clinic for awhile, is it a good idea to do an away? Finally, if I do an away, the only opening I have is early Sept to early October. Is that too late to do an away? I'm assuming I will get LORs from an ophtho person at my school, my research mentor for 2 years, and...is it better to get a medicine LOR or one potentially from someone I work with at the away rotation?

It's always advisable to do an away or two or three. As far as where to do it, aim high. Do it as early as possible, Sep-Oct is a bit late but still worthwhile. Get your three letters from school/lab (yes get the medicine letter), then submit a late 4th letter from your away if it goes well.

Just my 2cents hope it helps.

 

[TeddyKGB]

I'm returning to 4th yr of medical school two years after being at the bench. I'm trying to prepare for being back on the wards and getting geared up for residency applications.

Would anyone recommend a good rotation [ambulatory medicine, primary care?] to do before doing my ophtho month at my home school? Since it's been awhile since I've been on the wards, I'd like to get my feet wet again with basic H&Ps, etc so I won't be completely inept when I do my ophtho month, which will be a rotation that counts.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a rotation? And for that month before the important ophtho rotation, ophtho books to get me back in the swing of things?

I am interested in a basic science career in ophthalmology where I see patients but hopefully run some type of lab, in an "20/80" situation. I've done alot of work with basic signalling in neural stem cells, and would like to apply some of the same assays to embryonic retinal precursors. So I'm really hoping to end up at a program with both a strong research and clinical ophtho department.

I know there are several great programs, and I'm wondering if it's a good idea to do an away after my home rotation at such a program. Problem is, I don't really about any of the specifics of the research-oriented ophtho depts, and right now, I don't know if there is one specific program which would be a good match. In which case, given that I've been away from the clinic for awhile, is it a good idea to do an away?

Finally, if I do an away, the only opening I have is early Sept to early October. Is that too late to do an away? I'm assuming I will get LORs from an ophtho person at my school, my research mentor for 2 years, and...is it better to get a medicine LOR or one potentially from someone I work with at the away rotation?

I'd really appreciate any advice!

Welcome back to the wards.

As far as your rotation question, you could start off with outpatient. That would get you back into the swing of things H+P wise. It would also get you used to seeing patients in the outpatient setting, which is what much of what ophtho is. For books, I guess I would recommend the book that was given to me for my clinical elective. It’s a book that the American Academy of Ophtho (AAO) puts out that I could swear was called “Ophthalmology for the Primary Care Physician”. But I put this into an amazon search and got some book by Palay, which isn’t the one I’m talking about.

I would definitely do your clinical elective at your home program, at the very least for the reason that it would look strange if you didn’t. After that, it depends on what you want to do for residency. If you want to end up at your home program, I would do your additional electives there, probably research electives. If you want to go elsewhere, or have a specific program in mind, then I would do my extra electives there. Either way, I would do research electives since that seems to be your focus.

It’s difficult to have a good idea of what program would be a good match for you at your stage of the game. Figuring that out is more the task for you when you start interviewing. Then you can sit down with the PD and chairman and talk to them about research opportunities and whether or not you can grow your stem cells in their lab or whatever. Some of the things you can do at this point is to visit the websites of the different programs, or maybe request brochures and see what you think. That and talking to other people are probably all you can do to try and get a heads up for the purposes of choosing the right program for an elective.

As far as timeframe, basically you’re talking about doing your away elective in September. Hmm. Well, it’s borderline. If your doing an away for the purpose of scoring an interview, some would say it may be a little late and many programs will already have the ball rolling in terms of selecting who they interview. Others will say you’re within range. From my own experience, I did an away at a great program in Aug-Sept and got the interview. Later, I was told that I barely made it. Another guy with better numbers did the same elective in Sept-Oct and didn’t get the interview. So, it’s debatable. Anyway, if the purpose is to try and better your chances of matching at this place assuming you interview there, then this will certainly help (assuming they like you).

Letters of rec: Most will say you should have one letter from a primary care field. Not a bad idea considering I think they ask for it in the application. I’m not sure if they would scrap your application if you didn’t have it. I included one letter from a primary care discipline, 2 ophtho letters, and then I sent two more ophtho letters independently from the application to every program I applied to. They tell you not to do that, but I did anyway and they were included in my file at every program I interviewed at.

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

[Oceandust]

Thanks so much for the great advice.

Forgive my naivete, but I had no idea people can do research on their away elective , rather than a classic clinical rotation! It does sound like something down my alley.

I do have to ask, having been at the bench for a couple years, would a research elective really be a chance to do research or rather a way to meet faculty, etc etc that may help for the match? I ask because I think it's very tough to do basic science in a month. However, I am definitely open toward some sort of clinical project, but even then a month is short.

Also, as far as the timing for the research elective, early sept to early oct was mentioned to be a little late...I thought the majority of interview offers arrive in late october or november, with the actual interviews from nov to mid-december. So does that mean by early october, interview selections have already been made? Would it still be worthwhile, assuming the month goes ok, to ask for an LOR from the away research elective and send it ??
independently?

Thanks so much again, this forum is really a wonderful resource, especially facing the application process after being away from clinical medicine for so long!

 

[splice]

Thanks so much for the great advice.

Forgive my naivete, but I had no idea people can do research on their away elective , rather than a classic clinical rotation! It does sound like something down my alley.

I do have to ask, having been at the bench for a couple years, would a research elective really be a chance to do research or rather a way to meet faculty, etc etc that may help for the match? I ask because I think it's very tough to do basic science in a month. However, I am definitely open toward some sort of clinical project, but even then a month is short.

At this point, it seems that your away elective considerations are mostly so that faculty can get to know you and be your advocate for consideration in ranking, assuming you do well and they like you. It also demonstrates your general interest in ophthalmology to programs other than the one you go to.
As you said, trying to accomplish any meaningful basic science research in one month is unrealistic, unless you have some extraordinarily specific project plans already in mind with faculty support. You could spend the month working on clinical case reports or analyzing data, but that would probably not offer the exposure to faculty that will help them decide if you will make a good clinician and addition to their progam. Either way, you need a strong faculty contact before even applying who has a well-defined plan for what you can be involved in.
As such, I would say that a more traditional clinically-oriented month will be of much more value to you in general in terms of your goals for the away rotation. But there a lot of possibilities for how to spend the month, perhaps you could arrange some combination of clinical practice and clinical research if you find the right contact.

Also, as far as the timing for the research elective, early sept to early oct was mentioned to be a little late...I thought the majority of interview offers arrive in late october or november, with the actual interviews from nov to mid-december. So does that mean by early october, interview selections have already been made? Would it still be worthwhile, assuming the month goes ok, to ask for an LOR from the away research elective and send it ??

Letters are important for much more than just interview selection. They often play a big role in a program's decision among the interviewees for ranking, and are a source of fodder for interview questions as well. So, definitely send the 4th letter in late if you think it is a good one. Some folks send the letters directly to programs, some folks bring the letters along at their interviews, I just submitted mine to SFMatch and all of the programs already had it in my file when I interviewed.

 

[benit100]

I think that whether you should do away rotations depends largely on the strength of your institution's ophthalmology department. I come from a school with a well-respected ophtho dept and was advised not to do away rotations. I did take a year off for research, and my LORs were from my advisor at my home institution (ophtho), a medicine attending, and my research PI (ophtho). I don't know that there is necessarily a magic formula, but I was invited for interviews almost everywhere I applied, and matched to my top choice program. (Incidentally, for my first rotation back after my year off, I did ED, which was a pretty good re-introduction to seeing patients; it's amazing the little things you forget how to do while you're in the lab, like where to put the [Na] and the [K] in that little bracket thing!)

 

[Oceandust]

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far!

benit100, I sent you a private message