incendia_3428

2+ Year Member
Jan 28, 2016
1
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Hello,

I am new here. I don't have anyone to talk to regarding these things, so I am posting here. I just recently graduated from a UC with a major in B.S. Biology, with a GPA of 2.4. I am not going to make excuses for myself, because I just fxxked up my undergraduate career and I don't know how to undo it. I really need advice. I still want to be a doctor, doesn't matter if D.O. or M.D. as long as I become a physician.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, what do I do from here? I don't have great EC's besides volunteering for two years. I got a call back from CEP America to become a scribe, but they have yet to call me for an on-site interview. Where do I start?

Honest and helpful comments only please. Thank you.
 

0dee

5+ Year Member
Jan 16, 2015
416
620
Status
Medical Student
You have a chance, there is always a chance, but you have to take some baby steps towards it. You are looking roughly at a couple of years before you even think about applying to schools. Like the above poster said, retake all classes that you received a grade below B, try to ace them with A's. Take that scribe job as it will give you the needed clinical exposure and you might make friends with the physicians and they can write you LORs and even let you shadow them if possible. After you aced all those classes and figured out why did you under-perform in your science classes, then start preparing for the big beast "MCAT".
 
About the Ads

Eccesignum

I Narcanned Your Honor Student
7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2011
1,622
3,076
Favorite med school on the citadel
Status
Medical Student
As said before, whatever you do it is going to take you at least a few years to come back. That extra time is not a bad thing.

Clearly something was going on during undergrad that disrupted your focus; before you do anything you need to make sure whatever that was is addressed. It'll do you no good to rush off to more classes if you're going to continue to do poorly. Back up, take some time to figure out what was wrong, and take the time to correct it.

DO schools practice what's called grade replacement, which means if you go back to school and re-take a given class (for equivalent or greater credits), DO schools will only consider the re-take grade. This is a great thing for people coming from very low prior GPAs, as it can raise your GPA fairly quickly.

MD schools on the other hand will average the two grades no matter what. With a 2.4 starting GPA you'd be looking at a very long road. To give an idea, I came out of undergrad originally with a 2.71. I could not do grade replacement as many of my classes that I began doing poorly in were very specialized classes, so I started over. It took me an associate's at straight 4.0 and then a second bachelor's at 3.9 (over 150 credits together) to raise my cGPA to 3.28. The dedication paid off with acceptances, but as you can imagine that took a very long time.

There's a thread in this forum dedicated to people who've come back from low GPAs. I'd advise browsing through it, there's a lot of hard-earned wisdom in there.

Apart from that, you acknowledge that your volunteering and other ECs are weak. That's fine; you're at the beginning of a road right now. Start planning ahead for the next few years. Find volunteering that you love and will stick with long-term. Quality over quantity. Get a job that will pay your bills. Scribing is a fine idea, just make sure you can live on that pay. Plan to start shadowing doctors; this is necessary to show you understand what you're getting into. Get clinical exposure (this does not necessarily have to be in a hospital). Explore your other hobbies and interests in the meantime too. Being well-rounded is important, nobody wants a dull applicant that just checked off the boxes and nothing else.

And take your time. Medical school is not going anywhere and there's no rush. You have lots of time to build the strongest application you possibly can. Use it strategically.
 

Goro

Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
61,580
92,333
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
The fastest path for you to become a doctor will be to retake all F/D/B science coursework, do well on MCAT, and apply to DO schools.

IF you're boning for the MD degree, there are MD schools that reward reinvention. You'll need to ace all the classic pre-reqs, and ace either a post-bac (which can be DIY) or a SMP, ideally one given at a med school. Then also ace MCAT (513 or better, 33+ on the old scale).

This process is a marathon, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere. In fact, by the time you apply, there will be more of them!


Hello,

I am new here. I don't have anyone to talk to regarding these things, so I am posting here. I just recently graduated from a UC with a major in B.S. Biology, with a GPA of 2.4. I am not going to make excuses for myself, because I just fxxked up my undergraduate career and I don't know how to undo it. I really need advice. I still want to be a doctor, doesn't matter if D.O. or M.D. as long as I become a physician.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, what do I do from here? I don't have great EC's besides volunteering for two years. I got a call back from CEP America to become a scribe, but they have yet to call me for an on-site interview. Where do I start?

Honest and helpful comments only please. Thank you.
 

Ad2b

5+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2014
2,870
2,708
Status
Pre-Medical
If you really want to be a doctor, listen to the above. All of it. Don't rush. Figure out WHY you have such a lousy GPA. It is lousy. Don't kid yourself.

Take your time with the road. Focus on one course at a time and get an A... then the next and so on. Don't listen to naysayers. People if they hear your GPA will tune you out, until you can prove differently.

My GPA is worse than yours, so when I say yours is lousy mine is abysmal at best. It is also almost 30 years old. I am 51, have a pretty darn good GPA now - all prereqs - and HAD many, many people think I'm loony for trying. Once I proved my point, almost everyone has been supportive and encouraging.

Also, I never ever ever never ever ever figure out my old GPA with the new. I can't fix that. I can't rewind time. If I focus on it, then I become very depressed. I focus on the now, and what I can control leaving how that very old GPA is regarded to the folks that make the decisions - the adcoms. When filling out my AMCAS for last cycle, I stopped midway through it and all that ran through my head was, "you are such a blubbering failure... what a worthless pos..." 30 F's, 24 D's, probably 30 W's that were retakes of the F's and D's or vice verse... and then there was the break of 25 years and ... near 4.0. The tears of frustration, regret, sorrow... turned to tears of "I got this... I can do this... I AM doing this!"

Don't wait until you're in your early 40s to figure it out. Just don't rush.
 

etp123

5+ Year Member
Aug 25, 2014
311
258
Status
Pre-Medical
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. Echoing what everyone above me has said, I'll strongly emphasize how much taking time off has helped me. I think if I jumped straight from graduating and into a post-bac program I would have been making the same mistakes, but instead I took a year and some to just work/volunteer and basically "mature".

I'm starting the long and arduous process of retaking classes now and find that I am having a much better time grasping the material, organizing my time, etc. Being out of that environment helped me take a look at what I was doing wrong and assess how much I really wanted to pursue the MD/DO. Your bio background should also help you since you'll be familiar with the material. And when you go back to school, I'd recommend taking it easy at first, maybe one or two classes to see how you're handling it. :)
 
Nov 5, 2011
238
11
Status
Pharmacy Student
Hello,

I am new here. I don't have anyone to talk to regarding these things, so I am posting here. I just recently graduated from a UC with a major in B.S. Biology, with a GPA of 2.4. I am not going to make excuses for myself, because I just fxxked up my undergraduate career and I don't know how to undo it. I really need advice. I still want to be a doctor, doesn't matter if D.O. or M.D. as long as I become a physician.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, what do I do from here? I don't have great EC's besides volunteering for two years. I got a call back from CEP America to become a scribe, but they have yet to call me for an on-site interview. Where do I start?

Honest and helpful comments only please. Thank you.
The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.
 

holdthemayo

ASA Member
5+ Year Member
May 13, 2014
1,062
1,791
Ysllodins
Status
Medical Student
The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.
This is terrible advice. All of your hard work would mean nothing when schools find out you tried to lie and fraudulently represent yourself to get in.

Figure out why you failed and fix it. Own your past mistakes and prove you have changed but getting straight As. That takes a long time, years usually, but real change takes time.
 
Feb 2, 2016
40
19
Status
Pre-Medical
The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.
National Student Clearinghouse. Look it up.

Maybe Caribbean school admissions don't verify the GPA of their students because they are more concerned with pocketing as much tuition dollars as possible, rather than protecting their profession. I don't think this is the case with medical schools in the states.
 
Last edited:

gyngyn

Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Lifetime Donor
7+ Year Member
Nov 4, 2011
25,305
43,972
Status
Attending Physician
The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.
Someone I know who tried this was expelled upon discovery (even before the internet).
When AMCAS discovers the fraud, an investigation will ensue. Odds of success then become non-detectable.
 

Goro

Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
61,580
92,333
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
Ahh, nothing like the smell of ignorance in the morning. Med schools use a clearinghouse to see all applicant's transcripts. So nice try on the career destroying advice.

To follow up on gyngyn's comment, AACOMAS also gets notified if a DO school smells something fishy.



The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.
 
Jun 24, 2015
84
25
Hello,

I am new here. I don't have anyone to talk to regarding these things, so I am posting here. I just recently graduated from a UC with a major in B.S. Biology, with a GPA of 2.4. I am not going to make excuses for myself, because I just fxxked up my undergraduate career and I don't know how to undo it. I really need advice. I still want to be a doctor, doesn't matter if D.O. or M.D. as long as I become a physician.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, what do I do from here? I don't have great EC's besides volunteering for two years. I got a call back from CEP America to become a scribe, but they have yet to call me for an on-site interview. Where do I start?

Honest and helpful comments only please. Thank you.
You can do this, you just need to ask yourself if you have the will power and the financial means to do so (it will get expensive.) Depending on how badly you want this, you could take out loans for living expenses and for classes. If yes, continue on.

- Retake the classes you did poorly in, especially the C's, D's and F's. DO schools will do grade replacement. So your GPA will not become an issue.

- Do well in these classes and learn better studying habits while doing so.

- Once you have better study habits, you will develop a lot more free time. Use this free time to build yourself as a person, particularly through altruistic means. If you have to work to support yourself, do it. Ad-coms will understand this.

- Apply these new found study habits in preparation for the MCAT. Give this exam your all, studying 3 to 5 months in advance.

- If your MCAT is in line, you will be competitive for D.O. schools. To be competitive for MD schools, you will have to get your GPA way up. To get an idea of how high, look at the average GPA's of schools you are interested in. If you are falling a standard deviation out of this average, you may be less competitive.

I'm glad you reached out because these forums are best when they become an information hub for people who don't necessarily have someone to talk to. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: incendia_3428
About the Ads
Feb 22, 2016
23
6
Status
Non-Student
Someone I know who tried this was expelled upon discovery (even before the internet).
When AMCAS discovers the fraud, an investigation will ensue. Odds of success then become non-detectable.
As for this, I don't know. Perhaps the OP should try it and report back;however, the chances of it actually working are 99 to 1. Considering, records are going to exist without doubt. I'm joking of course, I would just want to see the responses.

As for the OP, I don't get this " figure out what you did wrong". Okay, we all know about the "freshman year", when you adjust and just refuse to study until the last minute;however, the freshman focus card can only be used once in my opinion. You can't use the " FAILED my whole undergrad card". I mean, honestly, you would have a terrible time explaining this in an interview. You would be competing against students who did poorly their 1st semester as freshmen, but then rebounded and obviously put the effort into doing better. I mean let's be honest, college is just about implementing your own personal system. The longer you are there, the more advanced you become and gain your grip on the ropes. But, the OP story... is basically a bomb went off every semester, and it just kept going.

I mean ask yourself, would you want someone like you in medical school? That is the question you have to ask yourself. You have to be prepared for it, what's the point of getting in, if you are just going to flunk. Create a proven record of you succeeding.


I personally thank you for helping me stay on track. It reminds me, that I have to take my classes seriously, or I will end up like this guy.


Final Verdict: if you are serious about helping others, go out of country.

If you want to serve your community else where: go into a different profession. Politically correct answer: There are plenty of jobs that use Bio degrees.

Yea, I'm an electrical engineering major.
 

ThoracicGuy

7+ Year Member
Jun 11, 2013
10,427
26,457
Status
Attending Physician
Final Verdict: if you are serious about helping others, go out of country.

If you want to serve your community else where: go into a different profession. Politically correct answer: There are plenty of jobs that use Bio degrees.

Yea, I'm an electrical engineering major.
Going out of country is a horrible, terrible idea. OP hasn't proved they can handle undergrad work, how can they handle the Caribbean where they have no hand holding and have to score higher than a US based student to have a reasonable chance at residency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: incendia_3428

Darth Doc

7+ Year Member
Jun 22, 2013
552
461
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Ahh, nothing like the smell of ignorance in the morning. Med schools use a clearinghouse to see all applicant's transcripts. So nice try on the career destroying advice.
AAMCAS notified me that I'd forgotten to add a transcript from a military course I took. It wasn't at a college, I didn't know it counted for any college credit, and I didn't remember taking it. So, the clearinghouse will find it whether you put it on there or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: incendia_3428
Feb 22, 2016
23
6
Status
Non-Student
Going out of country is a horrible, terrible idea. OP hasn't proved they can handle undergrad work, how can they handle the Caribbean where they have no hand holding and have to score higher than a US based student to have a reasonable chance at residency.
Well, if I meant " Caribbean" then I would agree. I was referring to international medical schools. Such as China, or Russia. Most curriculums are being integrated to English. I was only speaking to his/her desire to become a physician.

You are aware that physicians are needed around the globe, not just the US?

The OP asked for advise, I gave him a feasible route. Chinese medical schools will accept anyone who is interested.
 

ThoracicGuy

7+ Year Member
Jun 11, 2013
10,427
26,457
Status
Attending Physician
Well, if I meant " Caribbean" then I would agree. I was referring to international medical schools. Such as China, or Russia. Most curriculums are being integrated to English. I was only speaking to his/her desire to become a physician.

You are aware that physicians are needed around the globe, not just the US?

The OP asked for advise, I gave him a feasible route. Chinese medical schools will accept anyone who is interested.
And by going to China or Russia, they should be ready to practice only in this countries. This is not a viable option for being able to practice in the US.
 
Feb 22, 2016
23
6
Status
Non-Student
And by going to China or Russia, they should be ready to practice only in this countries. This is not a viable option for being able to practice in the US.
Tell me something I don't know. The OP said he/she wants to be a " physician". He/she never stated " where". I assume you keep forgetting that physicians are needed around the world, not just the United States.

On to the second point, it depends on how you define " viable". Viable does not necessarily exclude the impossibility. The OP could eventually land a job in the United States with experience. I mean, healing works the same way as it does in China. I think that is a well known fact( just subtract the pay from insurance companies). Is this a harder route? of course it is;however, it is clear that NO Us medical school will accept him at this point, therefore, I am only giving "options" that are possible.
 

ThoracicGuy

7+ Year Member
Jun 11, 2013
10,427
26,457
Status
Attending Physician
Tell me something I don't know. The OP said he/she wants to be a " physician". He/she never stated " where". I assume you keep forgetting that physicians are needed around the world, not just the United States.

On to the second point, it depends on how you define " viable". Viable does not necessarily exclude the impossibility. The OP could eventually land a job in the United States with experience. I mean, healing works the same way as it does in China. I think that is a well known fact( just subtract the pay from insurance companies). Is this a harder route? of course it is;however, it is clear that NO Us medical school will accept him at this point, therefore, I am only giving "options" that are possible.
Are you being intentionally obtuse? If someone is posting on here, they are wanting to be a physician generally practicing in the US.

As for viable, going to a foreign medical school in China, Russia, or somewhere else is generally worse than going to the Caribbean. The exceptions to this can be developed Western English speaking countries like the UK, Ireland, and Australia. Chinese schools will not have US clinical experience. They will not teach USMLE type material and it will be up to the student to study on their own for this. While they may be taught classes in English, their patients on clinical rotations will not be speaking English and that will place the student at a significant disadvantage. In many non-English speaking countries, you will need to demonstrate language proficiency for a license. Many countries also require citizenship to get a job. Thus many of these school graduates will not even be able to practice in those countries and basically are just giving the schools money in exchange for a chance for a residency spot in the US... a chance that is probably much worse than even the Big 4 Caribbean schools.

And yes, I realize that you are probably a troll account and the reason you are "BackForrealz" is because your prior account was likely hit with the banhammer, but that is no reason to allow foolish advice to stand.
 
Feb 22, 2016
23
6
Status
Non-Student
Are you being intentionally obtuse? If someone is posting on here, they are wanting to be a physician generally practicing in the US.

As for viable, going to a foreign medical school in China, Russia, or somewhere else is generally worse than going to the Caribbean. The exceptions to this can be developed Western English speaking countries like the UK, Ireland, and Australia. Chinese schools will not have US clinical experience. They will not teach USMLE type material and it will be up to the student to study on their own for this. While they may be taught classes in English, their patients on clinical rotations will not be speaking English and that will place the student at a significant disadvantage. In many non-English speaking countries, you will need to demonstrate language proficiency for a license. Many countries also require citizenship to get a job. Thus many of these school graduates will not even be able to practice in those countries and basically are just giving the schools money in exchange for a chance for a residency spot in the US... a chance that is probably much worse than even the Big 4 Caribbean schools.

And yes, I realize that you are probably a troll account and the reason you are "BackForrealz" is because your prior account was likely hit with the banhammer, but that is no reason to allow foolish advice to stand.
Ad hominem, that's pretty mature for your age. He asked for advise, I gave it to him. Student Doctor Network has plenty of people going after the same goal. It has never been stated as official SDN policy to only discuss US related paths to becoming a physician. I mean, if that's all he can do, then that's it. There is no reason to get fired up on an internet forum. As for the rest, I'm not going to stoop down that low. After all, this is a professional forum, not a place for temper tantrums. He/she can weigh the advise given from different sources and make his own judgment.
 

ThoracicGuy

7+ Year Member
Jun 11, 2013
10,427
26,457
Status
Attending Physician
Ad hominem, that's pretty mature for your age. He asked for advise, I gave it to him. Student Doctor Network has plenty of people going after the same goal. It has never been stated as official SDN policy to only discuss US related paths to becoming a physician. I mean, if that's all he can do, then that's it. There is no reason to get fired up on an internet forum. As for the rest, I'm not going to stoop down that low. After all, this is a professional forum, not a place for temper tantrums. He/she can weigh the advise given from different sources and make his own judgment.
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem
1
.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
I am making my argument based on what you said, not because it was you saying that. That is the exact opposite of the definition of ad hominem. The OP wasn't asking to be a physician in other countries and that is rarely the case on here.

 
Jun 24, 2015
84
25
The hell with baby stepping forward. If you are going to do that, you might as well go to a CC for two years and then transfer to a different University for another two. If you are young enough you can do that. No one ever has to know when you apply that you went to the 2.4 school if you don't send in the transcripts.

OP, this is an example of random people on the internet not having your best interest at heart. Just follow my plan and keep chugging at it, but also take things on these message boards with a big grain of salt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: incendia_3428
Jul 13, 2017
13
0
Status
Pre-Medical
National Student Clearinghouse. Look it up.

Maybe Caribbean school admissions don't verify the GPA of their students because they are more concerned with pocketing as much tuition dollars as possible, rather than protecting their profession. I don't think this is the case with medical schools in the states.
Is that true about Caribbean med schools? I did some research and St. George's mentioned on their website that their average applicants have a 3.4. Like why would they mention that?
 
About the Ads