UCLA vs. UTSW vs. Utah

[Mike Rowave]

Hey everyone! I was hoping to get some advice on choosing between these three schools. My primary interest is ENT due to significant experiences in the field, though I am open to other specialties. Ideally, I'd like to go to a school that can provide the greatest chances to match into ENT. I have 100% GI bill benefits available, which will cover 100% of UTSW for three years, and I wouldn't need to take out any loans for the fourth year. I'm an older non-trad with a working-professional spouse. No kids.

UCLA
Pros

• 100% p/f without AOA - very important to me
• Hospital has of the top ENT programs in the country
• Dedicated research year would significantly help with networking and publishing papers in ENT
• 12 month pre-clinical
• Student well-being seems to be a big priority for the school
• This is kind of dumb, but when I got the acceptance call, the person was super excited about my application and interview and basically went on about how happy they were that I got accepted/how impressed the interviewers were. I didn't hear anything like that from any other school I was accepted to.

Cons

• My partner might not be able to work for the first year we live in California. Their job requires additional licensure to practice in CA , and this generally takes around a year. There is a chance they can get a waiver due to experience, but this isn't guaranteed.
• The COL is insane. Even with GI bill benefits and my partner working, there would be a very noticeable decrease in our QOL.
• We have two dogs and two cats, and finding an apartment that allows that many animals is proving to be challenging
• LA traffic
• Neither my partner nor I want to live in LA/big city, but UCLA does appear to provide the best chance of matching into ENT.
• I haven't been able to get a definitive answer on whether UCLA offers in-state tuition to veterans, or how much the GI bill covers the medical school tuition. I've tried reaching out to a few different organizations but haven't heard anything back yet. There is a chance it will cover all tuition for years 1-3, but that means there's a chance that I'd have to pay 20-30k/year for tuition even after the GI bill benefits.

UTSW
Pros

• Powerhouse school with research requirement/scholarly project which would certainly help with ENT research.
• GI bill will cover 100% of tuition for years 1-3, and I would not need to take out any COL or tuition loans throughout school.
• Very good home ENT program.
• The students all seemed to be happy during second look day and debunked the gunner rumors of the school.

Cons

• AOA, graded clerkships, and internal rankings. This is a huge factor for me. I'd commit to UTSW today if they didn't have AOA and internal rankings.
• My values are not really aligned with Texas values. Both my partner and I have reservations about living in Texas, although we could certainly make it work.
• Not as much time for research as UCLA.
• Weather.

Utah
Pros

• Currently live in Utah, so moving for school would be easy, or I could stay in my current house with a ~45 minute commute.
• GI bill will cover 100% of tuition for years 1-3, and I would not need to take out any COL or tuition loans throughout school.
• Good ENT program
• Definitely seemed the like they had the most relaxed students.

Cons

• New curriculum as of last year. There were a ton of basic questions that they couldn't answer on second look day, such as when shelf exams are scheduled during the longitudinal clerkships. Everybody is playing it by ear and figuring it out as they go.
• The clerkships are all longitudinal. You get matched with one preceptor per specialty and this is the only exposure to that specialty. Basically, during the clerkships, you only see how one pediatrician/neurologist/family practice physician etc. approach treatments. However, I'm not sure if it is typical to only see one provider of each specialty during clerkships.
• They mentioned that they don't have a typical dissection cadaver lab anymore, which I feel like limiting since I'm very interested in surgery.
• Likely has the fewest opportunities to help match into ENT.
• Graded clerkships, although no AOA

Summary: Curriculum and school wise, I'm definitely leaning toward UCLA. However, my spouse likely won't be able to work for the first year in Ca, and neither of us actually want to live in LA due to traffic and cost of living. UTSW has internal rankings, graded clerkships, and AOA, which I feel will make medical school much more challenging/mentally draining than needed. This is a massive turn-off. Finally, I wouldn't have to move to attend Utah, but the new curriculum is very concerning when compared to UCLA and UTSW.

Thank you for any advice!

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[thefirerisen]

Can't go wrong here. UTSW is great and won't hold you back compared to UCLA (if they can't match tuition)

 

[JukeBoxHeroo]

Seems like UTSW from your pro/cons list, but yea the graded/AOA will make it more stressful. However, if the students seem genuinely happy than maybe it is not as bad as you would think. Personally, I would talk to a handful of current students to ask how rough the graded stuff is.

 

[wysdoc]

Here’s a thought: just to not care about making AOA and not join in that obsessive bunch that does care.
I think Dallas is more conservative than other parts of Texas and you might not find it as hard to adjust as you think. TX schools admit a lot of Utah residents

 

[metroflagyl]

Hey everyone! I was hoping to get some advice on choosing between these three schools. My primary interest is ENT due to significant experiences in the field, though I am open to other specialties. Ideally, I'd like to go to a school that can provide the greatest chances to match into ENT. I have 100% GI bill benefits available, which will cover 100% of UTSW for three years, and I wouldn't need to take out any loans for the fourth year. I'm an older non-trad with a working-professional spouse. No kids.

UCLA
Pros

• 100% p/f without AOA - very important to me
• Hospital has of the top ENT programs in the country
• Dedicated research year would significantly help with networking and publishing papers in ENT
• 12 month pre-clinical
• Student well-being seems to be a big priority for the school
• This is kind of dumb, but when I got the acceptance call, the person was super excited about my application and interview and basically went on about how happy they were that I got accepted/how impressed the interviewers were. I didn't hear anything like that from any other school I was accepted to.

Cons

• My partner might not be able to work for the first year we live in California. Their job requires additional licensure to practice in CA , and this generally takes around a year. There is a chance they can get a waiver due to experience, but this isn't guaranteed.
• The COL is insane. Even with GI bill benefits and my partner working, there would be a very noticeable decrease in our QOL.
• We have two dogs and two cats, and finding an apartment that allows that many animals is proving to be challenging
• LA traffic
• Neither my partner nor I want to live in LA/big city, but UCLA does appear to provide the best chance of matching into ENT.
• I haven't been able to get a definitive answer on whether UCLA offers in-state tuition to veterans, or how much the GI bill covers the medical school tuition. I've tried reaching out to a few different organizations but haven't heard anything back yet. There is a chance it will cover all tuition for years 1-3, but that means there's a chance that I'd have to pay 20-30k/year for tuition even after the GI bill benefits.

UTSW
Pros

• Powerhouse school with research requirement/scholarly project which would certainly help with ENT research.
• GI bill will cover 100% of tuition for years 1-3, and I would not need to take out any COL or tuition loans throughout school.
• Very good home ENT program.
• The students all seemed to be happy during second look day and debunked the gunner rumors of the school.

Cons

• AOA, graded clerkships, and internal rankings. This is a huge factor for me. I'd commit to UTSW today if they didn't have AOA and internal rankings.
• My values are not really aligned with Texas values. Both my partner and I have reservations about living in Texas, although we could certainly make it work.
• Not as much time for research as UCLA.
• Weather.

Utah
Pros

• Currently live in Utah, so moving for school would be easy, or I could stay in my current house with a ~45 minute commute.
• GI bill will cover 100% of tuition for years 1-3, and I would not need to take out any COL or tuition loans throughout school.
• Good ENT program
• Definitely seemed the like they had the most relaxed students.

Cons

• New curriculum as of last year. There were a ton of basic questions that they couldn't answer on second look day, such as when shelf exams are scheduled during the longitudinal clerkships. Everybody is playing it by ear and figuring it out as they go.
• The clerkships are all longitudinal. You get matched with one preceptor per specialty and this is the only exposure to that specialty. Basically, during the clerkships, you only see how one pediatrician/neurologist/family practice physician etc. approach treatments. However, I'm not sure if it is typical to only see one provider of each specialty during clerkships.
• They mentioned that they don't have a typical dissection cadaver lab anymore, which I feel like limiting since I'm very interested in surgery.
• Likely has the fewest opportunities to help match into ENT.
• Graded clerkships, although no AOA

Summary: Curriculum and school wise, I'm definitely leaning toward UCLA. However, my spouse likely won't be able to work for the first year in Ca, and neither of us actually want to live in LA due to traffic and cost of living. UTSW has internal rankings, graded clerkships, and AOA, which I feel will make medical school much more challenging/mentally draining than needed. This is a massive turn-off. Finally, I wouldn't have to move to attend Utah, but the new curriculum is very concerning when compared to UCLA and UTSW.

Thank you for any advice!

First of all, congratulations on having such top choices. You cannot compare yourself to others since the criteria for happiness differ among individuals. I understand that you need strong support in the first year of medical school, and moving itself is a significant stressor. I have been accepted to another good school that is far from home, causing me stress because I do not want to move away from my support system. I have closely observed medical students burn out shortly after starting the first year, so my goal is to maintain a healthy balance where I can thrive in an academically competent environment and enjoy the medical school experience. You can't go wrong with any of the options; all three are excellent choices. If you are some one who is really good with Change and you have good coping skills then do not hesitate to move.

 

[cranberrylimeade]

I graduated HS in SLC and have lived about two hours outside of Dallas for 7 years! Wasn’t a huge transition culturally, but lifestyle was big. If you’re super into the outdoors, you’ll feel like you’re missing out. Otherwise, Dallas has a great professional and social scene. Feel free to DM me if you have any non-med school specific questions! I work in DFW so I know the area pretty well.