UCSF vs. UCSD w/ scholarship

[occipital2013]

Hi SDN,

Longtime lurker, new poster. I was fortunate enough to get off the UCSF waitlist a couple weeks ago and am now having a serious dilemma (first world problem). Overall, UCSF has long been my dream school, but San Diego has the allure of a sunnier, probably happier life for four years and with a pretty hefty scholarship, while SF has given me minimal financial aid.

I'm originally from SoCal and went to school in the northeast. I'm interested in academic medicine, and my ideal career would have me seeing patients 3-4 days of the week and doing research/teaching/writing with the remaining time. I've always been really interested in surgery and other procedure heavy specialties, but I know that's bound to change in med school. Given my life and college experiences, I'd also somehow like to incorporate global health or serving the underserved of America in some way or another. I hope to eventually settle down in SoCal (but what do I know at this age? 🙂).

Here's a list of a few pros and cons I've managed to plot for each school. I've asked a few family, friends, students, and physician mentors and gotten different advice from everyone! I'd really appreciate the input of you SDNers, especially current students or graduates (any residents or attendings?). I'm torn, as straight up, I'd prefer SF to try out a completely new area/lifestyle but am unsure if it's worth the cost difference and how much that extra $120k in debt would affect me in the long run.

UCSF
+ San Francisco (city, food, culture, technology)
+ Global health
+ Clinical training sites
+ Name / residency
+ Precision medicine initiative (and overall innovation)
+ Slight advantage in research
- $160k debt....
- Weather (not terrible compared to NE)
- Students spread over city

UCSD
+ San Diego (weather, beer, beach)
+ $160k in scholarship over 4 years (ie $40k debt)
+ Higher average board scores
+ Closer to home
+ Affordable, on campus housing
- Fewer global health opportunities
- Less work with underprivileged
- Wealthy "sterile" suburb

I'd appreciate any comments you have. Thanks!

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[Dbate]

Hi SDN,

Longtime lurker, new poster. I was fortunate enough to get off the UCSF waitlist a couple weeks ago and am now having a serious dilemma (first world problem). Overall, UCSF has long been my dream school, but San Diego has the allure of a sunnier, probably happier life for four years and with a pretty hefty scholarship, while SF has given me minimal financial aid.

I'm originally from SoCal and went to school in the northeast. I'm interested in academic medicine, and my ideal career would have me seeing patients 3-4 days of the week and doing research/teaching/writing with the remaining time. I've always been really interested in surgery and other procedure heavy specialties, but I know that's bound to change in med school. Given my life and college experiences, I'd also somehow like to incorporate global health or serving the underserved of America in some way or another. I hope to eventually settle down in SoCal (but what do I know at this age? 🙂).

Here's a list of a few pros and cons I've managed to plot for each school. I've asked a few family, friends, students, and physician mentors and gotten different advice from everyone! I'd really appreciate the input of you SDNers, especially current students or graduates (any residents or attendings?). I'm torn, as straight up, I'd prefer SF to try out a completely new area/lifestyle but am unsure if it's worth the cost difference and how much that extra $120k in debt would affect me in the long run.

UCSF
+ San Francisco (city, food, culture, technology)
+ Global health
+ Clinical training sites
+ Name / residency
+ Precision medicine initiative (and overall innovation)
+ Slight advantage in research
- $160k debt....
- Weather (not terrible compared to NE)
- Students spread over city

UCSD
+ San Diego (weather, beer, beach)
+ $160k in scholarship over 4 years (ie $40k debt)
+ Higher average board scores
+ Closer to home
+ Affordable, on campus housing
- Fewer global health opportunities
- Less work with underprivileged
- Wealthy "sterile" suburb

I'd appreciate any comments you have. Thanks!

This is easy. UCSD hands down. 40K debt versus 160K debt is a HUGE difference. The only thing "prestige" helps is residency placement and the difference there is minor--especially if you want to stay in Cali.

 

[occipital2013]

This is easy. UCSD hands down. 40K debt versus 160K debt is a HUGE difference. The only thing "prestige" helps is residency placement and the difference there is minor--especially if you want to stay in Cali.

What about getting a placement in academic medicine? Eg if you were director of some department and had two otherwise equal applicants from UCSF or UCSD, would that UCSF name sway your decision?

 

[red doctober]

I vote UCSD 100%, that is unless you have a trust fund. The difference in "prestige" isn't worth the extra money. You can definitely be successful in academic medicine or whatever else if you went to UCSD.

 

[pv515]

What about getting a placement in academic medicine? Eg if you were director of some department and had two otherwise equal applicants from UCSF or UCSD, would that UCSF name sway your decision?

You will never have two otherwise equal applicants. Whoever they like more is who they will take.

 

[d12]

I vote UCSD 100%, that is unless you have a trust fund. The difference in "prestige" isn't worth the extra money. You can definitely be successful in academic medicine or whatever else if you went to UCSD.

Even with the trust fund I'd take UCSD. Then I'd use the 120k to buy an Audi R8.

OP - if I were you I'd go with UCSD. Future you will thank you, as will your future family. 120k (plus the interest you'll accumulate) could be the down payment on a very nice house. If the question was UCSF vs. a lower-tier school w/ scholarship it would at least be a debate. These are both terrific schools and it's a no brainer in my opinion. Good luck and congrats!

 

[Long Way to Go]

UCSD for sure. If nothing else, studying will be easier knowing that you don't have a huge cloud of debt weighing over you. And even if you care about prestige a lot, UCSD is still a top 20 school, isn't it? It's definitely well known anyway; it's not like joining the entering class at Quinnipiac Medical.

 

[sinombre]

What about getting a placement in academic medicine? Eg if you were director of some department and had two otherwise equal applicants from UCSF or UCSD, would that UCSF name sway your decision?

If you want to go into academic medicine you'll make significantly less money, so the difference in cost will become even more substantial.

Definitely UCSD.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Is this even a question? UCSD, hands down. How far you go in "academic medicine" is on you, not on the difference between two top-flight UC medical schools. You start rolling the interest on the $160k and you see that over the life of the loan, you'll be paying out something like $500k. Go to UCSD.

 

[occipital2013]

Thank you all for your responses so far, I really appreciate them. For the 12 people that voted UCSF, do you have any comments to add?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

you gotta be kitten me


seriously though, UCSD is located in a world class location, you will LOVE la jolla and the beaches, I have to move from here to the northeast for medical school

 

[OhHey]

Loll I definitely vote for UCSF. You really have to be careful with these school vs. School threads. There's a certain bias of people who reply to them. And u have no idea who is being sincere.. some people are unconsciously jealous and competitive. I also believe rankings are important to some degree esp if a school is in the top 5.. and esp if you want to go into academic medicine. The PIs who run the lab I work at both went UCSF for med school. And try to avoid arguments that say residency is the only thing that matters.. once u go to residency.. people say fellowship is the only thing that matters.. and then when u get to that point.. they'll say the hospital u get a job at is the only one that matters etc. UCSF is a lot more idealistic and global as a school (both socially and scientifically)... and the bay area is wayyy more fun than san diego in my opinion. Youll change as a person by just being there and studying there. i agree that 160k is large enough for me to hesitate for sure, but you are still paying in state tuition no? I'm just coming off strong since people are really biased on this thread. But to be brutally honest.. if I was in your shoes.. I'd choose SF without question. (I was rejected by the way.)

Instead of posting here, I would really talk to people who actually care about you and your future (family, mentors, friends, and even some professors that you like). Anonymity on this forum allows for flippancy that will not help you. Good luck and congrats on getting into great schools.

 

[virtuoso735]

UCSF might be slightly more prestigious, but UCSD is a top 20 school with a huge reputation as well! Being from the Bay Area, I LOVE San Francisco and am jealous that you get to stay in California, but I don't think it's worth an extra $160k over four years just to experience a different area.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

UCSF might be slightly more prestigious, but UCSD is a top 20 school with a huge reputation as well! Being from the Bay Area, I LOVE San Francisco and am jealous that you get to stay in California, but I don't think it's worth an extra $160k over four years just to experience a different area.

Yeah, obviously the price is a huge difference. Both cities are awesome and actually pretty comparable in terms of night life and social offerings. However, San Francisco's weather and dating scene literally and figuratively pales in comparison to San Diego's if that is something you are interested in. Both schools offer pretty equal academic opportunities with San Francisco obviously being superior on this measure. In my opinion, quality of life is better in San Diego. I've lived in both cities, but mainly in southern california so maybe that's where my bias comes from. San Francisco is also alot more expensive to live in than San Diego. Also, San Diego doesn't have great white sharks eating beachgoers.

 

[sinombre]

Yeah, obviously the price is a huge difference. Both cities are awesome and actually pretty comparable in terms of night life and social offerings. However, San Francisco's weather and dating scene literally and figuratively pales in comparison to San Diego's if that is something you are interested in. Both schools offer pretty equal academic opportunities with San Francisco obviously being superior on this measure. In my opinion, quality of life is better in San Diego. I've lived in both cities, but mainly in southern california so maybe that's where my bias comes from. San Francisco is also alot more expensive to live in than San Diego. Also, San Diego doesn't have great white sharks eating beachgoers.

 

[imnamerican]

1. Like other have posted, I don't think you're at a meaningful disadvantage in academic medicine by going to UCSD.

2. Having less debt post-residency will make it a lot easier to manage the significantly lower salary while working as an academic.

 

[alpinism]

Which school do you like better, money aside?

The fact of the matter is that UCSF will have more opportunities in global health and working with under-served populations. Obviously they are both great schools, but 120k is a lot of money.

Can your family help out w/ tuition or are you all on your own? Have you looked into applying for private scholarships?

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I'm going to echo the above posters and say UCSD, without a second thought. That is seriously a ton of debt, and I don't think it's worth paying that much more for a few spots on the US News list and the chance to live in SF. You can easily match in SF if it still means that much to you down the line.

(no bias)

 

[Arbor Vitae]

socal>>norcal>>>nocal

 

[OhHey]

Yeah, obviously the price is a huge difference. Both cities are awesome and actually pretty comparable in terms of night life and social offerings. However, San Francisco's weather and dating scene literally and figuratively pales in comparison to San Diego's if that is something you are interested in. Both schools offer pretty equal academic opportunities with San Francisco obviously being superior on this measure. In my opinion, quality of life is better in San Diego. I've lived in both cities, but mainly in southern california so maybe that's where my bias comes from. San Francisco is also alot more expensive to live in than San Diego. Also, San Diego doesn't have great white sharks eating beachgoers.

It depends on what you think is your definition of quality-of-life. If you like the sun, nice buildings, pretty lawns, a lot of open space.. then of course San Diego. But personally, it bores me. San francisco has more history.. has a certain charm to it.. it's more urban, grunge.. has a lot more hole in the wall places to check out.. has a beautiful bay and bridge.. beautiful central park. I would argue people are more chill.. passionate.. dynamic and less superficial. But that's a loaded statement. Summer weather is reallyyy nice actually. Breezy and blue skies. SF's not for everyone.. but I loved it.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

It depends on what you think is your definition of quality-of-life. If you like the sun, nice buildings, pretty lawns, a lot of open space.. then of course San Diego. But personally, it bores me. San francisco has more history.. has a certain charm to it.. it's more urban, grunge.. has a lot more hole in the wall places to check out.. has a beautiful bay and bridge.. beautiful central park. I would argue people are more chill.. passionate.. dynamic and less superficial. But that's a loaded statement. Summer weather is reallyyy nice actually. Breezy and blue skies. SF's not for everyone.. but I loved it.

yeah, that's why I said I've mainly spent time in socal so that's where my bias comes from. I would definitely agree that socal can be way too superficial.

 

[occipital2013]

Yeah the SoCal lifestyle is beckoning me for sure. But I do want that big city feel in my early 20's, and I think learning to adjust to SF rather than staying in the area I grew up in would provide more opportunities for personal growth.

I visited UCSD yesterday and loved it. I could see myself very happy there for the next 4 years. I'm driving up to SF right now to check the school out--get another feel for it and see if I think the slight extra edges in clinical training, global health, and personal growth is worth that extra $160k in debt.

I did speak to a financial aid counselor, and it seems like the overall debt is actually not that bad to pay off. We'll see. Thanks for all the input everyone!

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I was going through a similar dilemma, and contacted a current UCSF student to get their weigh on the matter, especially since I thought UCSF was the best fit for me.

All top schools are great and have something to offer. i think that you should make a decision on whats best for you. it sounds like you have great options and honestly you will do amazing graduating from any of these schools. the financial factor is huge though - for example, i have a friend who got the new david geffen scholarship from UCLA for a full ride and I think she is going to go there for med school over UCSF. [...] if you have the opportunity to save over 100K then my opinion is to go for it. let me know if you have other questions!

I have a lot of friends in med schools all over and everyone loves their classmates and faculty. When I was on the interview trail and attending other second look weekends I didn't feel 100% about anywhere but I knew that wherever I decided to go I would make friends. All of my friends [...] are extremely happy with their situations even though they didn't think they would fit in with the people as much.

About funding and resources...it is definitely more difficult here [edited: vs the top tier privates I, ThatOneAnon, was pursuing]. I was about to start a project for this summer and my PI's funding for a medical student fell through. I also know a lot of classmates who applied for the summer funding grant and didn't get it because there just wasn't enough funding to give to everyone. And I think you mentioned you had some hefty scholarships? That is kind of a big one for me. All of the top 20 med schools are great and you will graduate with infinite opportunities no matter which you choose but it would be nice to graduate with as little debt as possible. I'm definitely not appreciating having to look for a cheaper apartment for next year haha.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Yeah the SoCal lifestyle is beckoning me for sure. But I do want that big city feel in my early 20's, and I think learning to adjust to SF rather than staying in the area I grew up in would provide more opportunities for personal growth.

I visited UCSD yesterday and loved it. I could see myself very happy there for the next 4 years. I'm driving up to SF right now to check the school out--get another feel for it and see if I think the slight extra edges in clinical training, global health, and personal growth is worth that extra $160k in debt.

I did speak to a financial aid counselor, and it seems like the overall debt is actually not that bad to pay off. We'll see. Thanks for all the input everyone!

If city life is what you want, then SF for sure, if the opposite/same sex scantily clad is what you want, then SD

 

[La Presse]

Are you crazy? UCSF. Hands down.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Are you crazy? UCSF. Hands down.

I feel like UCSF is overrated and UCSD is underrated.

 

[somethingdeep]

Yeah the SoCal lifestyle is beckoning me for sure. But I do want that big city feel in my early 20's, and I think learning to adjust to SF rather than staying in the area I grew up in would provide more opportunities for personal growth.

I visited UCSD yesterday and loved it. I could see myself very happy there for the next 4 years. I'm driving up to SF right now to check the school out--get another feel for it and see if I think the slight extra edges in clinical training, global health, and personal growth is worth that extra $160k in debt.

I did speak to a financial aid counselor, and it seems like the overall debt is actually not that bad to pay off. We'll see. Thanks for all the input everyone!

There are also loan forgiveness programs that a lot of people in academic medicine can take advantage of, which is something else to keep in mind since you're interested in academia.

Good luck with your decision! Definitely a tough one.

 

[imnamerican]

I was going through a similar dilemma, and contacted a current UCSF student to get their weigh on the matter, especially since I thought UCSF was the best fit for me.

That student was remarkably honest and candid about your concerns. Props to him/her!

 

[sinombre]

There are also loan forgiveness programs that a lot of people in academic medicine can take advantage of, which is something else to keep in mind since you're interested in academia.

Good luck with your decision! Definitely a tough one.

Doesn't this require 10 years of loan payments prior to loan forgiveness?

 

[imnamerican]

Doesn't this require 10 years of loan payments prior to loan forgiveness?

Yes, although it still works out significantly in your favor if you make the lowest required payment, especially since residency can often count towards those 10 years. The only concern would be the longevity of the program itself (ie., whether it will still exist when you need it).

 

[An MD Hopeful]

My vote is for UCSF. Based on what I've been told by attendings and by my observations of the physicians at the hospital where I do research, I think going to a top 5 medical school definitely does make a difference in one's success in academic medicine. I know some are going to disagree, but I think that UCSF will provide you with better research and mentorship opportunities and increased chances of matching very well. My mentor actually had a major administrative position at UCSD before she moved, so a lot of this is from what she has told me.

 

[occipital2013]

One last consideration: as of now, I'm more interested in pursuing a career serving the underserved / global health rather than a ROAD type specialty. Because my pay would be a bit lower, would debt then be a bigger consideration?

 

[Lucidity]

One last consideration: as of now, I'm more interested in pursuing a career serving the underserved / global health rather than a ROAD type specialty. Because my pay would be a bit lower, would debt then be a bigger consideration?

Yes. That career path really doesn't offer much in the way of compensation. Neither of these schools will hinder you or your goals. IMO graduate with the least amount of debt possible.

 

[Goobs]

I think that should definitely be a consideration you have. Having a lower income means either you'll live frugally while trying to pay off your loans quickly or have a larger amount of accrued debt if you try to pay it off slowly. I think the AAMC emailed us all a link with a loan calculator you can use (enter in the loan, your estimated salary, and some other stuff) and it'll tell you how much you have to pay a year and the overall amount you end up paying.

In the end you have two great schools to choose from. Personally, I think 160,000 is a LOT of money before interest even kicks in, and I'd have to take a long hard look to see if SF is worth that much to me.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Yes. That career path really doesn't offer much in the way of compensation. Neither of these schools will hinder you or your goals. IMO graduate with the least amount of debt possible.

Huh? You and I have a very different sense of what makes for "not much" in the way of compensation if you believe the bolded part. FM/primary care IM will get you well into the low six figures, hardly struggling. Agree with the second part.

 

[Lucidity]

Huh? You and I have a very different sense of what makes for "not much" in the way of compensation if you believe the bolded part. FM/primary care IM will get you well into the low six figures, hardly struggling. Agree with the second part.

Outside of medicine, yes. But it still is on the lower side of compensation for physicians. It's not bad but if I knew I was thinking of going into those fields, I would want to go to the cheapest school possible.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I work at UCSF and love it here, but give me 120k to go to UCSD and you'll have me there in seconds. Even if you "miss out" on UCSF initially, getting a UCSF residency or fellowship could be in your cards.

 

[apumic]

Wow, I'm actually quite surprised with how many "go UCSF" we got here. If you have the opportunity to save money by going to another top 10(ish, UCSD is usually in the 5-15 range) school over Harvard -- much less UCSF -- I would take it in a heart beat. Honestly, even if this were for a school in the 20s or 30s with a scholarship, I wouldn't find it that hard to advocate for it over UCSF. The premeds here are FAR overestimating prestige and underestimating debt....

 

[Long Way to Go]

Wow, I'm actually quite surprised with how many "go UCSF" we got here. If you have the opportunity to save money by going to another top 10(ish, UCSD is usually in the 5-15 range) school over Harvard -- much less UCSF -- I would take it in a heart beat. Honestly, even if this were for a school in the 20s or 30s with a scholarship, I wouldn't find it that hard to advocate for it over UCSF. The premeds here are FAR overestimating prestige and underestimating debt....

The poll results, thankfully, are 3:1 for UCSD.

 

[FACS444]

If you want to do global health and work with the underserved locally and globally, UCSF hands down is the place to go. You won't get much, if any, hands on exposure working with the underserved in La Jolla. UCSF has 5 student run free clinics to help underserved patients get access to care, and is localized smack dab in the middle of San Francisco.

Also, in the end, paying off loans for another several years really won't change your life very much. The professional opportunities at a place like UCSF, especially if you are interested in working with the underserved, are unparalleled.

I was accepted by UCSD and truly loved it there, but if you are interested in caring for the underserved UCSF is a no-brainer in my mind.

 

[FACS444]

occipital2013, if you're interested in talking to a current UCSF student message me and I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have

 

[occipital2013]

If you want to do global health and work with the underserved locally and globally, UCSF hands down is the place to go. You won't get much, if any, hands on exposure working with the underserved in La Jolla. UCSF has 5 student run free clinics to help underserved patients get access to care, and is localized smack dab in the middle of San Francisco.

Also, in the end, paying off loans for another several years really won't change your life very much. The professional opportunities at a place like UCSF, especially if you are interested in working with the underserved, are unparalleled.

I was accepted by UCSD and truly loved it there, but if you are interested in caring for the underserved UCSF is a no-brainer in my mind.

I was really impressed by the student-run clinic in Pacific Beach, which serves the homeless population. The day I visited, there were actually a few med students from Germany learning from UCSD so they could start their own free clinic at home.

Anyway, all in all, I went with UCSF. It was an incredibly tough decision, and I'm still hit with pangs of regret while driving around SoCal and seeing the life I turned down and remember how laid-back, friendly, and cool the UCSD students I met were. If anyone is facing a similar decision, feel free to message me. While I'm no expert, I'd be happy to walk you through my thought process.

Thanks so much everyone for your input. I look forward to being your colleague someday!

 

[LALFL]

Have you withdrawn your spot at UCSD yet? Some people are patiently waiting on their waitlist 🙂 Good luck at UCSF!

 

[FACS444]

Congrats! We're happy to have you