UK to US - Possible?

[ECG]

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I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I am a medical student in the UK currently in my 2nd year. I am hoping to do the USMLE 1 & 2 and apply for residency in the US when I finish my medical degree.

I was just wondering if it's possible to transfer or apply to a US Medical school instead. I guess I am just too impatient - I am a mature student (26) I just feel that I need to be comfortable and happy, but right now I hate the thought of finishing med school here in th UK then struggling to get into residency as a FMG in the US.

I was thinking of intercalating in Sept and doing my Bsc then applying after getting my Bsc for 2011 entry. If accepted it means I would be doing an extra year in the US - but I don't mind.
The only question I have is will they accept my UK Bsc Degree because most schools do not accept transfers from overseas but would they accept if I applied with my Bsc? It would be from a top 10 University in the UK. Plus I will have completed 2 year of medical school here - covered basic sciences - biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, statistics, Microbiology, Histology, Immunology etc etc
I know most schools want foreign students to take a year of college in the US but are there any that would accept me without this pre-requisite considering my other credentials? e.g. are Private medical schools more flexible?

Failing this of course I would finish my Medical degree here then apply for residency, can anyone tell me if they have done this before and how difficult is it to get into surgery as a FMG?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ChairmanMao]

You may have better luck soliciting feedback on the General International Forum when you scroll down on the main SDN website. There are a number of threads that are devoted to UK and Ireland medical school graduates and general IMG wanting to transfer or apply to the US for residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I am a medical student in the UK currently in my 2nd year. I am hoping to do the USMLE 1 & 2 and apply for residency in the US when I finish my medical degree.

I was just wondering if it's possible to transfer or apply to a US Medical school instead. I guess I am just too impatient - I am a mature student (26) I just feel that I need to be comfortable and happy, but right now I hate the thought of finishing med school here in th UK then struggling to get into residency as a FMG in the US.

I was thinking of intercalating in Sept and doing my Bsc then applying after getting my Bsc for 2011 entry. If accepted it means I would be doing an extra year in the US - but I don't mind.
The only question I have is will they accept my UK Bsc Degree because most schools do not accept transfers from overseas but would they accept if I applied with my Bsc? It would be from a top 10 University in the UK. Plus I will have completed 2 year of medical school here - covered basic sciences - biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, statistics, Microbiology, Histology, Immunology etc etc
I know most schools want foreign students to take a year of college in the US but are there any that would accept me without this pre-requisite considering my other credentials? e.g. are Private medical schools more flexible?

Failing this of course I would finish my Medical degree here then apply for residency, can anyone tell me if they have done this before and how difficult is it to get into surgery as a FMG?

Thanks in advance.

Unlikely you are going to be able to transfer -- US med schools tend to take a fairly negligible number of transferees each year, rarely from non-US schools, and almost always for a very limited set of reasons (spouse got transferred, dying family member you need to be closer to). Given your reasons and the fact that you are coming from another system without LCME oversight, I'd rate your chances at transferring at close to nil. As for restarting, it's even more rare for a US med school to accept someone who already matriculated to a med school elsewhere. So I'd say your odds of ending up in the US are still better finishing up your UK program and going for a US residency. That being said, only about 40% of non-US grads tend to match, and the specialties they tend to match into tend to be the less competitive ones. You probably could get a prelim surgery spot fairly easilly, in which perhaps you could prove yourself and use that as a launching pad, but getting a categorical surgery slot as a FMG might be more difficult.

I agree that you ought to try to touch base with folks in the appropriate international board to find out who made it and how. But I suspect your chances of going through the US med school (rather than residency) route are slim to none.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Check your PM box.

 

[ECG]

Thank you.

 

[henge]

Law2Doc, I know I'm reviving an old post, but I'm wondering how you know this?

"As for restarting, it's even more rare for a US med school to accept someone who already matriculated to a med school elsewhere."

I seem to recall reading somewhere that each year several US (or maybe its Canadian) students at med schools in Ireland restart at US med schools.

If its true that US med schools rarely accept students who've matriculated elsewhere, do you think that's because students rarely volunteer to redo their first years, because the schools view the students as somehow tainted, because the schools don't want to be viewed as poaching other schools' students or because of something else?

 

[henge]

Here are some posts from the International-UK/Ireland discussion:

"Have you considered going to Ireland for the first year and applying to NA while you are there? One person in my class did that successfully and left after the first year for UBC. He did not recieve credit for his year here but I don't think he has any regrets. If you took that route you'd have all your bases covered.

***​

I asked the dean of admissions of a particular North American med school [GW] if they would look at an applicant who had completed their first year at an Irish GEP for medicine. She said that they would, although the credits would not be transferred and you would have to start from first year again.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=638464&highlight=transfer



Most people just try to start over in the US. I've heard rumors of people transfering but every year there are people who re-apply back home and get in. That's a much easier route.

***​

the most likely way would be to apply as a first year after 1-2 years in Ireland. At least there are lots of schools that would consider your application to their first year class.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=449601&highlight=transfer

 

[Scottish Chap]

Henge: I can speak for U.S. medical schools (I've no clue about the Canadian medical schools). The point is that those students who 'transfer' are usually not really transferring, but actually starting all over again at a U.S. medical school which they applied to when they were attending a medical school overseas. Usually those students were close to getting into U.S. schools anyway, and likely sat on a waitlist somewhere.

Medical schools in the U.K. and Ireland have a completely different curriculum, and that's what they don't tend to transfer to American medical schools. In addition, the absence of an undergraduate degree from North America is (almost without exception) criteria to exclude an applicant from entering a U.S. Medical school.

I attended a medical school in the U.S. A few people in my class either dropped out or entered a decelerated curriculum. At the third year, 3-4 people from Caribbean medical schools and D.O. schools were able to transfer in and take those spots. This was only possible because the curriculum in those medical schools runs very close to the curriculum in allopathic medical schools in the U.S., and they had all taken Step 1. In fact, I interviewed one of them who wanted out of a Caribbean medical school. His Step 1 score was better than mine, and he had honors in almost every class. He was accepted but had to repeat third-year. I thought that was crazy.

 

[henge]

Scottish Chap:
Thanks for replying. I understand US med schools rarely accept transfers of any sort. I was focusing more on starting over. For various reasons, I decided on med school late, and even with summer courses will not be able to get all the PQs until the summer after my graduation, and I would not want to take the MCAT until then. So, I'm going to have a glide year (or two) if I limit myself to US med schools.

But I can apply to a a 5 year Irish program after my third year of undergrad, without the MCAT and with limited PQs, and, if accepted, start in the Fall after I graduate. That gives me some certainty (standardized tests are not my forte, so I could bomb the MCAT foreclosing US med school entirely), makes productive use of my "glide" year (regular masters are reputedly not of much help in getting med school admission, and since my GPA is fine, a SMP seems not terribly useful), and, hopefully, if, after their first year, I wanted to go back to the US and was willing to reapply for entry as a first year (i.e., start over), I could do so with a decent, maybe even an enhanced, chance of success (I know there are some timing problems with this, but by then at least I have something [Irish schooling] in place). If I like the prospects in Ireland, or could not get into a US med school or residency, I could stay in Ireland (I have dual citizenship). Obviously, there is a big financial cost to going to Irish school, but assume that's not prohibitive. So, the Irish option sounds good, unless, by so doing, I'm permanently foreclosing the US med school option (hence the post). If enrolling in an Irish med school essentially precludes future entry to a US med school, even as a first year, then I have to rethink this.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Scottish Chap:
Thanks for replying. I understand US med schools rarely accept transfers of any sort. I was focusing more on starting over. For various reasons, I decided on med school late, and even with summer courses will not be able to get all the PQs until the summer after my graduation, and I would not want to take the MCAT until then. So, I'm going to have a glide year (or two) if I limit myself to US med schools.

But I can apply to a a 5 year Irish program after my third year of undergrad, without the MCAT and with limited PQs, and, if accepted, start in the Fall after I graduate. That gives me some certainty (standardized tests are not my forte, so I could bomb the MCAT foreclosing US med school entirely), makes productive use of my "glide" year (regular masters are reputedly not of much help in getting med school admission, and since my GPA is fine, a SMP seems not terribly useful), and, hopefully, if, after their first year, I wanted to go back to the US and was willing to reapply for entry as a first year (i.e., start over), I could do so with a decent, maybe even an enhanced, chance of success (I know there are some timing problems with this, but by then at least I have something [Irish schooling] in place). If I like the prospects in Ireland, or could not get into a US med school or residency, I could stay in Ireland (I have dual citizenship). Obviously, there is a big financial cost to going to Irish school, but assume that's not prohibitive. So, the Irish option sounds good, unless, by so doing, I'm permanently foreclosing the US med school option (hence the post). If enrolling in an Irish med school essentially precludes future entry to a US med school, even as a first year, then I have to rethink this.

My opinion probably won't matter, but I think it's a terrible use of time and resources to apply to a medial school overseas with the intention that it might enhance your application to a U.S. medical school. It won't. In addition, you need a VERY compelling reason for U.S. medical schools to take this kind of request seriously, and I just don't see that reason in any of the above.

My advice would be to finish off your classes, study for the MCAT, and give it all you've got stateside. Good luck!

 

[henge]

Scottish Chap:

I do value the input I get here; that's why I ask questions. And I do appreciate it when people take the trouble to respond. I am grateful for whatever scraps of info I can get. The problem, of course, lies in giving due weight to various opinions, given by people I don't know.

Which brings us back to my original question, previously addressed to Law2Doc but now equally applicable to you: How do you know that someone who had taken one year of med school abroad would need a "very compelling" reason for US med schools to take seriously his request for admission to the first year of a US program?

Of the people whose posts I quoted earlier who suggested this was a plausible route, one claimed to have spoken about it with the dean of admission at GW, one said he had a classmate who had done this, and one claimed to have heard "rumors" of this being done. If you (or Law2Doc) have discussed this with med school admissions officers, or have knowledge of people who've tried this route and been rejected, or some other direct knowledge, that would be very useful information to share. It would also be useful to know if you don't have that type of knowledge, but have experience with how the "system" works which suggests that this alternative is not realistic.

Well, thanks for your input and help, and I hope you understand I'm not trying to impugn your knowledge or wisdom, I'm just trying to get reliable info on a little known cranny.

 

[Scottish Chap]

How do you know that someone who had taken one year of med school abroad would need a "very compelling" reason for US med schools to take seriously his request for admission to the first year of a US program?.

I know because (as a 3rd and 4th year medical student), I interviewed applicants. Some of those applicants were people trying to transfer from other U.S. allopathic schools, from D.O. schools, and from schools overseas. Very compelling reasons usually are extenuating personal circumstances. If you have problems getting interviews at a U.S. school now, there is not a lot that has changed in your application if you try to apply from a medical school overseas with the intention of starting as a first year again. It just does not look good. I'm obviously biased, but I would be cringing reading your file, and I'm cringing right now trying to imagine you tap dancing and hoping to spin the story in a logical way.

 

[henge]

Thanks again.

 

[Silverfalcon]

@henge: FYI, did you read the entire posts that you quoted off from the two threads you linked?

"Have you considered going to Ireland for the first year and applying to NA while you are there? One person in my class did that successfully and left after the first year for UBC. He did not recieve credit for his year here but I don't think he has any regrets. If you took that route you'd have all your bases covered."

--> This sentence before the following sentence:

I think Cor is quite right and you'd be a long shot at American schools--they tend to weigh the MCAT score quite heavily. Also I noticed that your weak area is Verbal Reasoning which is probably the hardest to improve.

Note how jnuts explains that generally, a candidate would have a very difficult chance, and the situation of one of his classmate was rather an "exception." Nothing that would indicate that this is a pretty common instance.

"I asked the dean of admissions of a particular North American med school [GW] if they would look at an applicant who had completed their first year at an Irish GEP for medicine. She said that they would, although the credits would not be transferred and you would have to start from first year again."

---> Right before you copied this part:

Hey, I don't know whether or not you ended up accepting the Ireland offer,

While the quote itself isn't anything significant, this user has 4 posts compared to 1,355 posts by Scottish Chap, and yet you ask him on where he got his information.

"Most people just try to start over in the US. I've heard rumors of people transfering but every year there are people who re-apply back home and get in. That's a much easier route."

---> Right before this one:

You need to transfer after year three. But you can't do it without losing a year. So after year 3, you apply with your step 1 score and it takes them a year to accept you into their third year. So you would have finished 4th year in Ireland.

Note that Sage880 mentions what you quoted as the "much easier" route when compared to transferring after 4th year in Ireland. He (or she) clearly didn't mean that this method was common, especially with the statement like "I've heard rumors.."

"the most likely way would be to apply as a first year after 1-2 years in Ireland. At least there are lots of schools that would consider your application to their first year class."

Before student.ie. said that above, the user also said, "It is uncommon," and within that same post, student.ie also added, "Transfer is something to consider, but your odds are poor. A stellar USMLE step 1 might tip the odds in your favor. ?"

I'm not trying to deride anyone here, but I just wanted to point out rather unusual way of editing the quotes out and missing really the key points in the links. And usually... moderators of SDN know what they are talking about. I've rarely seen them saying completely wrong or misleading.

 

[henge]

Silver falcon:

Thanks for the comment. My original inquiry concerned how Law2Doc knew that US med schools would be unlikely to accept a student at an Irish med school who applied to a US med school for admission as a first year. I was also curious as to why restarting in the US would be rare; i.e., because few try it, or because many try it but few get accepted. I posted links, some of which claimed first-hand knowledge that would support the view that several students in Ireland did this each year.

I was less interested in an overall assessment of applying anew in the US, which is merely one option, along with getting an Irish degree and then trying for a US residency (a whole different issue with lots of posts) or staying in Ireland permanently (again, a wholly separate issue and one that goes way beyond practicing medicine). My post evidently was expressed poorly and created the impression that transferring back was my intention and that I thought going to Irish med school would enhance an app in the US.

I'm not at interested in learning about transferring in, as I realize that is wholly unrealistic. Originally, Scottish Chap addressed only the issue of transferring in. His response on the basis of his knowledge focused on transfers as well, as did most of the expanded comments that you cite. Again, transferring is not an issue, so I saw no reason to cite passages that mentioned it.

I respect Scottish Chap and appreciate his taking the time to respond to my inquiries. Nevertheless, I think it would be very imprudent of me to accept a statement without understanding the basis for it.