UMass vs USC

[MedWonk]

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UMass
Pros:
-Cost of Attendance
-Close to family
-I live 30 minutes away
-Low hassle in moving, getting insurance, etc.

Cons:
-I hate cold weather. After nearly three decades of freezing temperatures and snow, I'm ready to go someplace warmer.
-Not the biggest fan of Worcester. It's not bad, just kind of meh.
-Wife isn't a big fan of living in MA
-I love my family, but the few years I spent on the other side of the planet were glorious.

USC
Pros:
-My wife and I love LA
-Wife (who is Japanese) wants more contact with Japanese people/things
-More job opportunties for wife in LA
-I like the school better than I liked UMass (though I like both)
-Long term goal is to live and work out on the West Coast
-No ****ing snow

Cons:
-Cost. This is a pretty expensive school in a fairly expensive place to live.
-Hassle and expense in moving (car+cat)
-disconnected from my favorite sports teams

Our main concern with going west is the cost.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Living in SoCal >>>>>>>>>>>> Living in Massachusetts.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you can put up with the cold. You can't. Nobody can. The cold is evil.

In all seriousness, sounds like you have a hell of a choice between two great schools. You say that you "like the school better than I liked UMass (though I like both)." -- do you have any specific preferences (e.g., curriculum, hospitals, facilities, student body size, student body composition, etc.)? This may add another dimension to your analysis.

 

[MedWonk]

Living in SoCal >>>>>>>>>>>> Living in Massachusetts.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you can put up with the cold. You can't. Nobody can. The cold is evil.

In all seriousness, sounds like you have a hell of a choice between two great schools. You say that you "like the school better than I liked UMass (though I like both)." -- do you have any specific preferences (e.g., curriculum, hospitals, facilities, student body size, student body composition, etc.)? This may add another dimension to your analysis.

Part of it is gut feeling. I felt happier and had a more positive vibe after spending the day at USC. Part of it was that I had better interaction with the students I met at USC and felt like I fit in better. The other was that I really liked LA County. UMass has nice facilities and the hospital is nice, but LA County just seems to blow it out of the water.

The curricula between the two schools seems pretty similar, with the exception that USC seems to spread anatomy out over a longer period of time depending on the organ system that's being covered (assuming I didn't misunderstand the description of their gross anatomy course). It also seemed like students were able to get a little more involved in patient care early on, though both schools have you going out and practicing taking a hx early on anyway. I actually find it tough to distinguish the two on curriculum. I could go by each school's research ranking, except I think those rankings are BS. I think one of the things I gravitate towards is that USC has a great EM residency program from I've heard from SDN and from some of the doctors I scribe for (who did their residency at UMass), and looking at their list of current residents, it would seem a lot of their residents are graduates of Keck. A lot of them. So part of it is trying to take advantage of any geographical/alumni bias that may exist when it comes to applying for residencies.

Also, I can't emphasize enough how much I love the sun. And warmth.

 

[solitarius]

I'm biased towards Cali, but I think UMa$$ make$ better $en$e. You're gonna be cursing the cold weather or your higher loan payments.

 

[DermViser]

UMass
Pros:
-Cost of Attendance
-Close to family
-I live 30 minutes away
-Low hassle in moving, getting insurance, etc.

Cons:
-I hate cold weather. After nearly three decades of freezing temperatures and snow, I'm ready to go someplace warmer.
-Not the biggest fan of Worcester. It's not bad, just kind of meh.
-Wife isn't a big fan of living in MA
-I love my family, but the few years I spent on the other side of the planet were glorious.

USC
Pros:
-My wife and I love LA
-Wife (who is Japanese) wants more contact with Japanese people/things
-More job opportunties for wife in LA
-I like the school better than I liked UMass (though I like both)
-Long term goal is to live and work out on the West Coast
-No ****ing snow

Cons:
-Cost. This is a pretty expensive school in a fairly expensive place to live.
-Hassle and expense in moving (car+cat)
-disconnected from my favorite sports teams

Our main concern with going west is the cost.

What is the exact cost difference in tuition between the two?

Is UMass strict P/F in the first 2 years like USC?
How much time after classes are over do you get to study for USMLE Step 1?

There's a lot to be said for having your family support structure right there - 30 min. away, esp. when you're hunkering down cramming in facts before exams, while your family can easily take care of laundry, cooking, etc.

 

[MedWonk]

UMass CoA is about 215k over four years
USC CoA is about 326k over four years

IIRC, both are P/F the first two years.
UMass has about five weeks for dedicated Step 1 studying
Not sure about USC, because I don't see it explicitly spelled out, but going by their academic calendar it seems like there is a gap between 2nd and 3rd year that gives about six weeks of dedicated study time.

With re: to laundry, food, etc., my wife already handles it as my workload has increased at the hospital and I work more shifts/have more irregular hours. I'm not quite as concerned about this.

 

[QuantumJ]

From not knowing anything about the two schools and reading your list, USC wins out easily. You want to live and practice eventually out there and going to school there will get your foot in the door. It is more expensive but if your wife has an easier time finding a job this should offset at least the cost of living difference (is col really that different between the two areas?). Personally, I want to be close to family but ultimately my wife and I are our own family. If she likes it better as well as you then west coast it is. Even if you liked UMass slightly more I think everything else could push you towards USC but the fact you preferred USC means to me USC>>UMass.

 

[DermViser]

UMass CoA is about 215k over four years
USC CoA is about 326k over four years

IIRC, both are P/F the first two years.
UMass has about five weeks for dedicated Step 1 studying
Not sure about USC, because I don't see it explicitly spelled out, but going by their academic calendar it seems like there is a gap between 2nd and 3rd year that gives about six weeks of dedicated study time.

With re: to laundry, food, etc., my wife already handles it as my workload has increased at the hospital and I work more shifts/have more irregular hours. I'm not quite as concerned about this.

111 K is nothing to readily dismiss, esp. with accruing interest since loans are no longer subsidized during medical school.

That being said, it's also important that you be happy where you are, bc 4 years is a long time to be unhappy, esp. when you'll be doing A LOT of studying, and will want to aim to master the material. You would already seem to start out on a bad footing (from a happiness standpoint), in attending UMass. Based on your long term geographic goals, family happiness, the effect of weather on your mood, etc. it seems like USC is the best fit for you.

 

[Pose]

Based on tuition difference alone, I'd go to UMass. With interest, 111,000 is a pretty huge sum of money. I'd go to UMass and just tell myself I'd do residency in CA (full disclosure: I have no idea if that's easy to accomplish).

 

[ace12345]

Based on tuition difference alone, I'd go to UMass. With interest, 111,000 is a pretty huge sum of money. I'd go to UMass and just tell myself I'd do residency in CA (full disclosure: I have no idea if that's easy to accomplish).

And that's before interest...

 

[MedWonk]

From not knowing anything about the two schools and reading your list, USC wins out easily. You want to live and practice eventually out there and going to school there will get your foot in the door. It is more expensive but if your wife has an easier time finding a job this should offset at least the cost of living difference (is col really that different between the two areas?). Personally, I want to be close to family but ultimately my wife and I are our own family. If she likes it better as well as you then west coast it is. Even if you liked UMass slightly more I think everything else could push you towards USC but the fact you preferred USC means to me USC>>UMass.

COL is a bit higher in LA than here, but it didn't seem to be that big of a difference. Plus, with her better able to find work there I figure we actually might be in better shape as far as living costs are concerned out west. This is pretty also my rationale re: my family. I like being close to family, but my wife and I are our own family and I would like for us to be in whatever situation is best for us.

111 K is nothing to readily dismiss, esp. with accruing interest since loans are no longer subsidized during medical school.

That being said, it's also important that you be happy where you are, bc 4 years is a long time to be unhappy, esp. when you'll be doing A LOT of studying, and will want to aim to master the material. You would already seem to start out on a bad footing (from a happiness standpoint), in attending UMass. Based on your long term geographic goals, family happiness, the effect of weather on your mood, etc. it seems like USC is the best fit for you.

I agree that overall USC is likely the better fit. I also agree with the cost aspect. It's really the only thing that makes us hesitate.

Based on tuition difference alone, I'd go to UMass. With interest, 111,000 is a pretty huge sum of money. I'd go to UMass and just tell myself I'd do residency in CA (full disclosure: I have no idea if that's easy to accomplish).

Yeah, but I keep hearing that there is some geographical bias when it comes to residencies. Otherwise I would go to UMass and sort of laugh all the way to the bank being in much less debt. Not sure that it's actually possible to have my cake and eat it, too, though. I think I'm running into some version of the choice between location/money/lifestyle and I can only pick two.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah, but I keep hearing that there is some geographical bias when it comes to residencies. Otherwise I would go to UMass and sort of laugh all the way to the bank being in much less debt. Not sure that it's actually possible to have my cake and eat it, too, though. I think I'm running into some version of the choice between location/money/lifestyle and I can only pick two.

If you were a California resident, then it wouldn't matter. It would naturally be expected that you'd want to come back to the West Coast and Californians realize how hard it is to get into a California med school in the first place. Of course, if you were a California resident, you wouldn't have gotten into UMass as they only take MA residents, so that point is moot. An audition elective doesn't guarantee squat.

The question coming from California residencies would be: You've spent your entire life on the East Coast? Why all of a sudden do you want to come to the West Coast? Esp. since you're considering EM, which is getting competitive due to it's controllable lifestyle. Your case is MUCH stronger and shows commitment having spent your professional education in California.

 

[Davida]

My suggestion is plugging your anticipated loan numbers into the AAMC Loan Repayment Calculator. You'll get to see exactly how much you'll have to pay per month to repay your loans over ten years, and it might make you rethink how important cost is. When my fiancé and I had the discussion about how much of the living expenses I should take on, we plugged in my debt with no living expenses, partial living expenses, and full. The monthly payment for full living expenses was DOUBLE the amount of the monthly payment for no living expenses (4500 a month for full, compared with 2200, based solely on amount owed). It convinced my fiancé that living on a budget so I could take out fewer loans was a really good idea 😉

Double the 111,000 difference. Is USC 222,000 more school than U Mass?

Also, there are other cool places in the northwest and southwest that really need physicians (New Mexico, Oregon, Washington to a certain extent) and that have much better weather than the east coast. (This is coming from someone who grew up in the northwest, went to the east coast for school, and hightailed it back because it was too cold on the east coast. Weather in the northwest is NOT cold or snowy.)

 

[solitarius]

If you're absolutely dead set on working in CA, then yes, you should go to USC. But I'm willing to bet the COA for LA is higher than what you've quoted. Are you going to live in a safer part of town ($)? Are you going to have to commute to school? Taxes in CA are prolly higher, which will extend repayment. If you can accept the financial hit, then do it.

 

[MedWonk]

My suggestion is plugging your anticipated loan numbers into the AAMC Loan Repayment Calculator. You'll get to see exactly how much you'll have to pay per month to repay your loans over ten years, and it might make you rethink how important cost is. When my fiancé and I had the discussion about how much of the living expenses I should take on, we plugged in my debt with no living expenses, partial living expenses, and full. The monthly payment for full living expenses was DOUBLE the amount of the monthly payment for no living expenses (4500 a month for full, compared with 2200, based solely on amount owed). It convinced my fiancé that living on a budget so I could take out fewer loans was a really good idea 😉

Double the 111,000 difference. Is USC 222,000 more school than U Mass?

Also, there are other cool places in the northwest and southwest that really need physicians (New Mexico, Oregon, Washington to a certain extent) and that have much better weather than the east coast. (This is coming from someone who grew up in the northwest, went to the east coast for school, and hightailed it back because it was too cold on the east coast. Weather in the northwest is NOT cold or snowy.)

I don't think it's more school than UMass, and I'm sure I would get a great education at either place. My concern is more with whether or not it's worth the extra money to have a better chance of ending up on the opposite coast (including Seattle and PDX). UWash and OHSU seem to have residents from all over, so I'm not really concerned about those programs, but CA programs appear to have a fair amount of bias towards graduates of CA med schools and people who were originally from CA. So, my inclination towards USC is about maximizing my chances of ending up on the west coast, and whether or not spending the extra 111k+interest would be worth it. I could go to UMass, have less debt, and still have a good chance at programs in the PNW (assuming good grades/scores, etc.), but have a more difficult time breaking into CA, or go spend the extra cash to have a good shot at all the west coast residencies.

If you're absolutely dead set on working in CA, then yes, you should go to USC. But I'm willing to bet the COA for LA is higher than what you've quoted. Are you going to live in a safer part of town ($)? Are you going to have to commute to school? Taxes in CA are prolly higher, which will extend repayment. If you can accept the financial hit, then do it.

I'd probably live in Alhambra, Pasadena, or Monterey Park. COL in those areas appears to be similar/slightly lower than Boston, but obviously higher than Worcester.

 

[food2]

I don't think it's more school than UMass, and I'm sure I would get a great education at either place. My concern is more with whether or not it's worth the extra money to have a better chance of ending up on the opposite coast (including Seattle and PDX). UWash and OHSU seem to have residents from all over, so I'm not really concerned about those programs, but CA programs appear to have a fair amount of bias towards graduates of CA med schools and people who were originally from CA. So, my inclination towards USC is about maximizing my chances of ending up on the west coast, and whether or not spending the extra 111k+interest would be worth it. I could go to UMass, have less debt, and still have a good chance at programs in the PNW (assuming good grades/scores, etc.), but have a more difficult time breaking into CA, or go spend the extra cash to have a good shot at all the west coast residencies.



I'd probably live in Alhambra, Pasadena, or Monterey Park. COL in those areas appears to be similar/slightly lower than Boston, but obviously higher than Worcester.

It seems like you really love USC and personally, for me, I would love nothing more than to go live in california. Tired of the cold, haha. But seriously it seems like you and your wife will be so much happier in California than you will ever be in Worcester and if you are wife finds a job it eases the burden a little. 111k difference is nothing to sneeze at but so is your mental well being. Depending on what you want to do in the future it might be easier to pay off your loans. As a nontrad you probably have some money saved up? That could also mitigate the amount of loans.

Did you get any sort of fin aid? That might help mitigate the costs. Worth shooting the fin aid department there and let them know it's your number one choice and you could use some help. You never know. What I wouldn't do for california weather/atmosphere year round lol

 

[MedWonk]

It seems like you really love USC and personally, for me, I would love nothing more than to go live in california. Tired of the cold, haha. But seriously it seems like you and your wife will be so much happier in California than you will ever be in Worcester and if you are wife finds a job it eases the burden a little. 111k difference is nothing to sneeze at but so is your mental well being. Depending on what you want to do in the future it might be easier to pay off your loans. As a nontrad you probably have some money saved up? That could also mitigate the amount of loans.

Did you get any sort of fin aid? That might help mitigate the costs. Worth shooting the fin aid department there and let them know it's your number one choice and you could use some help. You never know. What I wouldn't do for california weather/atmosphere year round lol

USC has crap for fin aid the first year. MS2 onward there are plenty of scholarships, though, that can help mitigate the amount of loans I take out. That plus wife working can reduce the amount we need to take out for living expenses. We do have some cash saved up (about 13k so far), and my guess is we'll have about 16k when we move.

 

[food2]

USC has crap for fin aid the first year. MS2 onward there are plenty of scholarships, though, that can help mitigate the amount of loans I take out. That plus wife working can reduce the amount we need to take out for living expenses. We do have some cash saved up (about 13k so far), and my guess is we'll have about 16k when we move.

Nice! Yeah that definitely helps. It sounds like you'll be much happier at USC that's just my 2 cents. You have a great problem to have haha...Good Luck!

 

[MalibuPreMD]

In my opinion, your wife's excitement to move to LA (+ job, + cultural support) + your long-term preference for CA > NE + your excitement to train at LAC+USC adds up to more than $100,000 + interest. You only live once, don't settle for practicality when the alternative is exciting for you AND for your wife. "Happy wife, happy life" not "$200,000 savings, happy life"

Also, there are 14 weeks between our last system exam and the start of 3rd year. We have ICS, which is a 9 week class that meets in the morning 3x a week to discuss multi-system cases (http://medweb.usc.edu/schedules/current/ics.pdf - nb: note that on 4/2 we have in n' out provided by the dean included on our schedule) - supposedly it prepares you very well for 3rd year and pretty well for step 1.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

.

 

[MedWonk]

Well, this has been a productive thread. Thanks for the opinions/input. Hopefully come July I'll be on a plane to LA.

 

[dbeast]

Although USC is really expensive, they're pretty well-known for being generous with financial aid. Write them a letter about your situation and maybe they'll toss you a few bucks to lure you out here. It's not like they'll rescind your acceptance for a totally sensible request.

 

[food2]

Well, this has been a productive thread. Thanks for the opinions/input. Hopefully come July I'll be on a plane to LA.

Have you been accepted or is this a hypothetical situation? Either way good luck!

 

[MedWonk]

Have you been accepted or is this a hypothetical situation? Either way good luck!

It's hypothetical. I'm waitlisted, but (allegedly) they have a relatively small waitlist with a lot of movement. Won't know until sometime after May 15th, though. I am in at UMass, though. So it was an exercise in whether or not to focus only on UMass and forget/withdraw from everywhere else, or to keep USC in the running. So, I have an LOI ready to go on May 15th.