UMich (IS w/scholarship) vs Penn (w/scholarship) vs UCSF (OOS)

[driedmango619]

School 1: University of Michigan
Pros:

• In-State and I was offered 10k/year scholarship
• Class size of ~110, middle ground between UCSF and Penn class sizes
• Already have connections at the dental school due to my undergrad research job
• Pathways program as well as a solid Global Initiatives program
• Newly renovated clinics
• "#1" ranking

Cons:

• Graded and ranked
• I'm a UMich undergrad, staying in Ann Arbor isn't my first choice
• I've heard complaints about research being prioritized by faculty/administration over actually teaching the dental students

School 2: University of Pennsylvania
Pros:

• Offered a 30k/year Dean's Scholarship
• Philly isn't as expensive as San Fran (slightly more expensive than Ann Arbor though)
  • Living in Philly would be awesome
• Honors Program and strong community outreach
• Cutting edge technology/emphasis on innovating the field (something I want to be a part of)
• Strong alumni network
• Ivy = better chance at specializing ?

Cons:

• Graded (but not ranked past #10 I believe)
• Class size of ~150, might be harder to get close with faculty
• More expensive than UMich (but not nearly as expensive as I thought it would be considering the Dean's Scholarship I received)

School 3: University of California - San Francisco
Out of state
Pros:

• Pass/Fail and unranked
• Living in SF with mild winters sounds amazing after being raised in MI my whole life
• Class size of ~60
• Only a graduate school, more focus on dental students because of this ?

Cons:

• Most expensive cost of attendance (but getting in-state residency after the first year helps)
• Farthest away from home

Summary: As much as I love UMich/Ann Arbor so much, staying here would really feel like I'm staying stagnant. I came to UMich from a "feeder" high school, so in many ways, undergrad felt like high school 2.0 for me. Going somewhere far like Penn or UCSF would offer me a ton of personal growth that I wouldn't get at Michigan. With my scholarships, Cost of Attendance for each school goes: Michigan ($337K) < Penn ($401K) < UCSF ($418K). I'm not sure if I want to specialize yet, but if I do, I'd lean towards either UCSF (p/f and have a well-rounded application) or Penn (Ivy, not ranked past #10). My heart is leaning towards Penn for the change of scenery and the campus, but I also want to be financially responsible and recognize that $65K difference between UMich and Penn will rack up interest while I'm in school. I also really don't want to regret my choice and think "what if I had gone to Penn or UCSF" while at Michigan. Any help/experiences would be greatly appreciated!! Please don't just say "cheapest"

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[macsak]

School 1: University of Michigan
Pros:

• In-State and I was offered 10k/year scholarship
• Class size of ~110, middle ground between UCSF and Penn class sizes
• Already have connections at the dental school due to my undergrad research job
• Pathways program as well as a solid Global Initiatives program
• Newly renovated clinics
• "#1" ranking

Cons:

• Graded and ranked
• I'm a UMich undergrad, staying in Ann Arbor isn't my first choice
• I've heard complaints about research being prioritized by faculty/administration over actually teaching the dental students

School 2: University of Pennsylvania
Pros:

• Offered a 30k/year Dean's Scholarship
• Philly isn't as expensive as San Fran (slightly more expensive than Ann Arbor though)
  • Living in Philly would be awesome
• Honors Program and strong community outreach
• Cutting edge technology/emphasis on innovating the field (something I want to be a part of)
• Strong alumni network
• Ivy = better chance at specializing ?

Cons:

• Graded (but not ranked past #10 I believe)
• Class size of ~150, might be harder to get close with faculty
• More expensive than UMich (but not nearly as expensive as I thought it would be considering the Dean's Scholarship I received)

School 3: University of California - San Francisco
Out of state
Pros:

• Pass/Fail and unranked
• Living in SF with mild winters sounds amazing after being raised in MI my whole life
• Class size of ~60
• Only a graduate school, more focus on dental students because of this ?

Cons:

• Most expensive cost of attendance (but getting in-state residency after the first year helps)
• Farthest away from home

Summary: As much as I love UMich/Ann Arbor so much, staying here would really feel like I'm staying stagnant. I came to UMich from a "feeder" high school, so in many ways, undergrad felt like high school 2.0 for me. Going somewhere far like Penn or UCSF would offer me a ton of personal growth that I wouldn't get at Michigan. With my scholarships, Cost of Attendance for each school goes: Michigan ($337K) < Penn ($401K) < UCSF ($418K). I'm not sure if I want to specialize yet, but if I do, I'd lean towards either UCSF (p/f and have a well-rounded application) or Penn (Ivy, not ranked past #10). My heart is leaning towards Penn for the change of scenery and the campus, but I also want to be financially responsible and recognize that $65K difference between UMich and Penn will rack up interest while I'm in school. I also really don't want to regret my choice and think "what if I had gone to Penn or UCSF" while at Michigan. Any help/experiences would be greatly appreciated!! Please don't just say "cheapest"

cheapest...

 

[Ivy.ch]

Definitely Michigan!!

 

[axiumgod]

Normally I’d say Michigan because it’s cheapest but there’s a guy on here who swears it’s the worst school on earth. He’ll probably show up soon

 

[Boat on the Chesapeake]

Does your estimate including actually looking at cost of living or just the living expenses the school quotes you? Are you already factoring in the in-state tuition for three years of UCSF?

Did you factor in car vs walking/public transit for the different cities? Penn you can live in university city and walk to school and take public transit to downtown, but rent isn’t cheap. Idk about SF or Ann Arbor.

$70k + interest buys a lot of traveling and fun and Michigan has a good reputation too. If you’re a strong enough applicant to get into those three schools you’re strong enough to specialize from anywhere.

 

[DMD12345]

Michigan

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Ivy = better chance at specializing ?

No.

Big Hoss

 

[macsak]

No.

Big Hoss

but but but but "prestigious"

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

but but but but "prestigious"

I don’t know about you, but the required clinical attire at UPenn just seems a bit impractical...

Big Hoss

 

[DMD12345]

but but but but "prestigious"

Lol

 

[future_nostalgia]

Go to Michigan -- it's a great school, you'll save a lot of money, and you'll have just as good a shot at specializing as if you had gone to Penn.

And to clear up a misconception -- Penn doesn't rank at all (I'm a D4 and the school doesn't submit any rankings on residency applications).

 

[driedmango619]

Michigan

Do you mind explaining why you think I should go to Michigan when you're a Penn student?
TYIA

 

[driedmango619]

Does your estimate including actually looking at cost of living or just the living expenses the school quotes you? Are you already factoring in the in-state tuition for three years of UCSF?

Did you factor in car vs walking/public transit for the different cities? Penn you can live in university city and walk to school and take public transit to downtown, but rent isn’t cheap. Idk about SF or Ann Arbor.

$70k + interest buys a lot of traveling and fun and Michigan has a good reputation too. If you’re a strong enough applicant to get into those three schools you’re strong enough to specialize from anywhere.

I based this off of cost of living given by the schools themselves, but speaking personally as a UMich undergrad, I know the cost of living quoted is way more than what I currently pay to live in Ann Arbor. However, my understanding is that the Penn and UCSF costs quoted are probably more accurate.

Thank you for these tips! I will definitely consider these other factors.

 

[chiangmai2015]

I was in a similar situation.
I graduated from Michigan for undergrad and dental school (8 years).
It may have been possible for me to attend Michigan for a post-doc residency (3 years endo), but I accepted an offer at another school, as endo is non-match.
I know a lot of Michigan graduates who attended the same school for 11 years (undergrad 4 + DDS 4 + residency 3). Or even more… if they did the joint DDS + PhD program plus undergrad and post-doc residency. 🤪
Just like you, I’ve wanted to get out of Ann Arbor after spending 8 years there. I did one year GPR residency elsewhere. All of non-Michigan colleagues talk greatly about Michigan.
Michigan has a solid program and is very reputable.
If I could go back in time, I would still choose Michigan.

 

[constantlyconfused]

Normally I’d say Michigan because it’s cheapest but there’s a guy on here who swears it’s the worst school on earth. He’ll probably show up soon

I’m dead It’s like John something, I’m waiting for him to show up to