Unfair Grading among professors

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pp9

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Hey all, I figured I'd talk to a group of students who are in my shoes too.

Over the years, I have become jaded. I am so sick of finding out some professors offer huge amounts of extra credit, while the ones I took (of course) didn't. I'm talking 60 points extra in organic chemistry and a hugely curved grading scale in biochem (enough to bump up the final grades from my professor by a whole +0.5-1.0) for examples. Also not to mention the lab TA I had to miscalculated my grade to be lower than it was....and the professor had a policy that all uploaded grades were final. Apparently that applied to incorrect grades as well (this is more of my bitterness showing through haha). 😡

How do you guys feel about this? I am not sure if the professors are entirely aware of how drastically they can affect who is and is not admitted to professional schools. My school has a fairly set in stone policy that each professor has a right to grade how they want. I'm curious if any other undergrad schools have ways to standardize professors.

On another note....how do you guys feel about schools (such as mine) that only grade on the 0.5 mark? I can't get a 3.3, 3.7, etc. No matter what my percentage score was. This also affects students. Opinions?

I don't think that any professional schools would consider any of this...at least that I know of.
 
Hey all, I figured I'd talk to a group of students who are in my shoes too.

Over the years, I have become jaded. I am so sick of finding out some professors offer huge amounts of extra credit, while the ones I took (of course) didn't. I'm talking 60 points extra in organic chemistry and a hugely curved grading scale in biochem (enough to bump up the final grades from my professor by a whole +0.5-1.0) for examples. Also not to mention the lab TA I had to miscalculated my grade to be lower than it was....and the professor had a policy that all uploaded grades were final. Apparently that applied to incorrect grades as well (this is more of my bitterness showing through haha). 😡

How do you guys feel about this? I am not sure if the professors are entirely aware of how drastically they can affect who is and is not admitted to professional schools. My school has a fairly set in stone policy that each professor has a right to grade how they want. I'm curious if any other undergrad schools have ways to standardize professors.

On another note....how do you guys feel about schools (such as mine) that only grade on the 0.5 mark? I can't get a 3.3, 3.7, etc. No matter what my percentage score was. This also affects students. Opinions?

I don't think that any professional schools would consider any of this...at least that I know of.
1) Worrying about how other professors grade is a waste of time. Just focus on doing your best. Sometimes you get the easy guys, sometimes the hard.
2) There is generally no difference whether there are only half grades or full or whatever. It averages out in the long run.
3) You have a legitimate gripe if a genuine error was made. But whose fault was it. Did you have a chance to check. I think if you made a stink that a T.A> submitted the wrong grade a professor would probably have to change it. That is worth speaking up about I guess.
 
1) Worrying about how other professors grade is a waste of time. Just focus on doing your best. Sometimes you get the easy guys, sometimes the hard.
2) There is generally no difference whether there are only half grades or full or whatever. It averages out in the long run.
3) You have a legitimate gripe if a genuine error was made. But whose fault was it. Did you have a chance to check. I think if you made a stink that a T.A> submitted the wrong grade a professor would probably have to change it. That is worth speaking up about I guess.

I actually went to the chemistry dean for my problem and got shut down. Like I said, my school has a very strict "Each professor has the right to grade how they want and run the course how they want." I didn't get my lab report back until AFTER the grade was uploaded, so it was deemed final before I even had a chance. Grrrr!

And I still think there is a legitimate concern regarding different grading scales. After all, if a curve or lenient grading scale can bring you from a 3.0 to a 3.5 or even 4.0, your transcripts and GPA can look verrrrry different.
 
And I still think there is a legitimate concern regarding different grading scales. After all, if a curve or lenient grading scale can bring you from a 3.0 to a 3.5 or even 4.0, your transcripts and GPA can look verrrrry different.

What would you have them do? Nationally standardized grading and standardized tests for every course? Not only would that be impractical, it would be a huge detriment to the pre-vet education.

Every professor for every course at every school is going to grade differently. There's no changing that, because every professor teaches differently. Is it fair that one school has an excellent professor that makes chemistry fun and interesting while another has a professor who is tedious and boring? You could certainly argue that students get higher grades with the better professor. So should other students get special treatment since they had the worse end of the deal?

Life isn't fair. It's a basic fact. You can't possibly create an education system that is 100% fair and equal for every single pre-vet student in every single school in the country. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the crappier end of the spectrum, but that's life. We can't all be special snowflakes.

And just because grading is curved for a particular course doesn't mean that the course is easier or that the students are getting special treatment. My undergrad organic chem course had a huge scale. The material was extremely difficult and the professor knew it. Rather than dumbing down the material so that the students could pass, he taught the course to the level he wanted to teach it, and scaled the grades accordingly. I know just as much orgo as my friends who took the course at other schools, and our grades are similar. You can't know the situation for every class. Labeling the grading as unfair just because it didn't work in your favor isn't going to get you very far.
 
I'm not saying you don't have a point, but my experience was that the classes that had curves had them for a reason. For example, when I took biochem, I had a professor new to the college. We didn't have old exams to look at and learn his testing style. Overall though, he was a decent teacher, our class average was mid C on each exam (as it should be with a standard bell curve distribution), and there was no curve. The next semester, the "old" professor was back to teaching that biochem course instead if the new guy I had. The old professor was a much harder teacher. Students said he didn't explain things well and he wrote very hard tests. Class averages for his exams were 50% and below. So the TAs went to bat for the students and administration forced the old professor to give a 90 point curve (in a ~400 pt class) which brought the average up from below 50 to a C or something. They got a curve because otherwise everyone would've failed. But my class was easier, so we didn't need or deserve such a curve. I don't think you can fairly compare two things like that. And if you're that worried about it, talk to advisors or other students and make sure you take the guys you think are going to give you the curves you want. But really, I'd just work really hard studying myself. Better to just do well and not be in the position to depend on a curve for those last few points.
 
I'm not saying you don't have a point, but my experience was that the classes that had curves had them for a reason. For example, when I took biochem, I had a professor new to the college. We didn't have old exams to look at and learn his testing style. Overall though, he was a decent teacher, our class average was mid C on each exam (as it should be with a standard bell curve distribution), and there was no curve. The next semester, the "old" professor was back to teaching that biochem course instead if the new guy I had. The old professor was a much harder teacher. Students said he didn't explain things well and he wrote very hard tests. Class averages for his exams were 50% and below. So the TAs went to bat for the students and administration forced the old professor to give a 90 point curve (in a ~400 pt class) which brought the average up from below 50 to a C or something. They got a curve because otherwise everyone would've failed. But my class was easier, so we didn't need or deserve such a curve. I don't think you can fairly compare two things like that. And if you're that worried about it, talk to advisors or other students and make sure you take the guys you think are going to give you the curves you want. But really, I'd just work really hard studying myself. Better to just do well and not be in the position to depend on a curve for those last few points.

Ah, I see. I guess looking back after applying is really bumming me out. It's frustrating knowing that, because of your class scheduling needs, you could get an easy or hard professor.

I'd also like to mention that you guys are way nicer than the replies I saw on the pre-med boards for similar topics, haha. 👍
 
I do have to agree with everyone else. Curving happens. We had a curve in almost every class that I took, but remember it does not always help, such as when the class average is sitting around a 80-85% and that becomes the new "C" for the course. But it was great in my parasitology class where the class average was somewhere in the 30% range. It sucks at times, but try your best in the class and try to ignore the curves as much as possible. Also, the worst thing you can do is compare with other professors, just accept that you might end up with a crappy professor on occasion.

I do agree that the grading error is absurd. If she really graded your report wrong, the grade should be fixed, but this type of thing does happen, unfortunately. It really sucks, but you have tried what you can. Only other option is the dean of the university, but might not really be worth that in the end.
 
What would you have them do? Nationally standardized grading and standardized tests for every course? Not only would that be impractical, it would be a huge detriment to the pre-vet education.

Every professor for every course at every school is going to grade differently. There's no changing that, because every professor teaches differently. Is it fair that one school has an excellent professor that makes chemistry fun and interesting while another has a professor who is tedious and boring? You could certainly argue that students get higher grades with the better professor. So should other students get special treatment since they had the worse end of the deal?

Life isn't fair. It's a basic fact. You can't possibly create an education system that is 100% fair and equal for every single pre-vet student in every single school in the country. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the crappier end of the spectrum, but that's life. We can't all be special snowflakes.

And just because grading is curved for a particular course doesn't mean that the course is easier or that the students are getting special treatment. My undergrad organic chem course had a huge scale. The material was extremely difficult and the professor knew it. Rather than dumbing down the material so that the students could pass, he taught the course to the level he wanted to teach it, and scaled the grades accordingly. I know just as much orgo as my friends who took the course at other schools, and our grades are similar. You can't know the situation for every class. Labeling the grading as unfair just because it didn't work in your favor isn't going to get you very far.

BlackDog, please don't misinterpret why I'm calling it "unfair." I never said it didn't work in my favor, so that was unfair of you to take that route. I am calling it unfair because the grade distributions are very different for some of these different professors who are teaching the same material (literally, for some courses). That's nice that your professor adjusted your grading scale for the material taught. Not all do. That's exactly my point.

I definitely understand your point of view and I do agree to some extent. I guess my issue does stem from the lack of standardization. I do agree that it would be impractical, but could you expand more on how it would be detrimental? I'm genuinely curious. I could be missing the big picture here.
 
I do have to agree with everyone else. Curving happens. We had a curve in almost every class that I took, but remember it does not always help, such as when the class average is sitting around a 80-85% and that becomes the new "C" for the course. But it was great in my parasitology class where the class average was somewhere in the 30% range. It sucks at times, but try your best in the class and try to ignore the curves as much as possible. Also, the worst thing you can do is compare with other professors, just accept that you might end up with a crappy professor on occasion.

I do agree that the grading error is absurd. If she really graded your report wrong, the grade should be fixed, but this type of thing does happen, unfortunately. It really sucks, but you have tried what you can. Only other option is the dean of the university, but might not really be worth that in the end.

I don't think digging it all back up to fight for it again is worth it, like you said. I suppose I'm obsessing over every single step taken at this point in the application process lol. I appreciate the feedback from everyone!
 
BlackDog, please don't misinterpret why I'm calling it "unfair." I never said it didn't work in my favor, so that was unfair of you to take that route. I am calling it unfair because the grade distributions are very different for some of these different professors who are teaching the same material (literally, for some courses). That's nice that your professor adjusted your grading scale for the material taught. Not all do. That's exactly my point.

I definitely understand your point of view and I do agree to some extent. I guess my issue does stem from the lack of standardization. I do agree that it would be impractical, but could you expand more on how it would be detrimental? I'm genuinely curious. I could be missing the big picture here.

I'm going to be blunt here. Tough ****.

I learned very quickly that you deal with what you were given. It's not "unfair", it's a matter of a difference in teaching styles, learning styles, test taking and making, and a direct reflection of the work you put in. It's not done to make your life difficult, or to ruin your chances of going to professional school, it's because there are x amount of students and a limited number of professors and time slots to teach the course. You want the "easy" guy? Adjust your schedule accordingly. If you can't, tough. Getting to vet school is hard and you're going to have to deal with it.

Interview committees will not be amused if you cry about how the other kids had it easier than you did and that's why you got a C in chemistry.

That is all. Good luck 🙂
 
I'm going to be blunt here. Tough ****.

I learned very quickly that you deal with what you were given. It's not "unfair", it's a matter of a difference in teaching styles, learning styles, test taking and making, and a direct reflection of the work you put in. It's not done to make your life difficult, or to ruin your chances of going to professional school, it's because there are x amount of students and a limited number of professors and time slots to teach the course. You want the "easy" guy? Adjust your schedule accordingly. If you can't, tough. Getting to vet school is hard and you're going to have to deal with it.

Interview committees will not be amused if you cry about how the other kids had it easier than you did and that's why you got a C in chemistry.

That is all. Good luck 🙂

Well it's clear my motives for starting this thread were a tad misinterpreted but I understand what you are saying. I'm more aiming to discuss the differences among school grading. Although my venting did not help to make that clear haha.

No one said I intended on complaining about this in an interview so....yeah. I actually didn't get a C in chemistry but okay. Rude on your part.
 
I am not sure what you mean by standardizes professors.... 😕

You can't really standardize professors... they all teach differently and a school can't force them to all teach the same.

You're right, poor wording on my part. Not standardize professors, but standardize grading systems. For example, my physics department uses the same lectures and test banks for the courses that all pre-professional students take (unless they choose to major in physics). Yet, each professor grades differently. Some grade on exactly how you performed and one that I know of grades on how you did compared to everyone else (top 10% get a 4.0, and so on).

So say a 70% was a 2.5 in the performance-based grading. If everyone else failed the class, you'd get a 3.5-4.0 in the competition-based grading. Do any schools do things to prevent these discrepancies? I suppose including a more concrete example would have prevented everyone from jumping down my throat haha.
 
You're right, poor wording on my part. Not standardize professors, but standardize grading systems. For example, my physics department uses the same lectures and test banks for the courses that all pre-professional students take (unless they choose to major in physics). Yet, each professor grades differently. Some grade on exactly how you performed and one that I know of grades on how you did compared to everyone else (top 10% get a 4.0, and so on).

This it using a standardized curve... it happens quite often. If the class as a whole was doing really well, then you have to have a higher grade to pass. It works in reverse too... if the average is low, then you can have a 50% in the class and still pass. This is actually a fairly common form of grading. The answer is, do well and work hard. This type of grading even occurs in vet school
 
1) Worrying about how other professors grade is a waste of time. Just focus on doing your best. Sometimes you get the easy guys, sometimes the hard.
2) There is generally no difference whether there are only half grades or full or whatever. It averages out in the long run.
3) You have a legitimate gripe if a genuine error was made. But whose fault was it. Did you have a chance to check. I think if you made a stink that a T.A> submitted the wrong grade a professor would probably have to change it. That is worth speaking up about I guess.

QFT.

Life isn't fair. It's a basic fact. You can't possibly create an education system that is 100% fair and equal for every single pre-vet student in every single school in the country. Yeah, sometimes you'll get the crappier end of the spectrum, but that's life. We can't all be special snowflakes.

REALLY QFT.

You're right, poor wording on my part. Not standardize professors, but standardize grading systems.

I've not heard of a school that forces professors to apply a school-wide curve to each individual class, such that X % of the class gets A's, X % gets B's, etc. And, I think that would be incredibly inappropriate; some classes are just plain hard and there probably should be fewer A's. Some classes are easy - just by their nature. Biology 101 probably should have more A's than Biochemistry. Big deal.

I'm with BlackDog. You couldn't possibly standardize every class at every level of education in every locale in the world. It's just not realistic and would be detrimental to try.

If it's that big of a deal to you to get the 'easy' professors ... then talk to the people ahead of you in the program and find out who they are and arrange your schedule to get them.

If the chemistry dean really refused to adjust your grade that you genuinely earned, that's just plain injustice and you should take it to the next level above the chem dean, and so on, until you get it dealt with. But frankly, my "there's more to this story than we're hearing" alarm is ringing loudly like it sometimes does when we get stories of complete injustice here..... I'm betting you're either not telling us everything, or you aren't aware of everything.

Anyway, don't focus on grades so much. Do your best, learn the material, and keep lookin' forward. You'll go crazy worrying about whether you got the hard prof versus the easy prof.
 
This it using a standardized curve... it happens quite often. If the class as a whole was doing really well, then you have to have a higher grade to pass. It works in reverse too... if the average is low, then you can have a 50% in the class and still pass. This is actually a fairly common form of grading. The answer is, do well and work hard. This type of grading even occurs in vet school

Do you disagree that it could portray very different academic ability? It could be argued that topics as difficult as biochemistry, physics, and orgo (for some) HAVE to be curved in order to get a decent amount of students to pass.
 
Do you disagree that it could portray very different academic ability? It could be argued that topics as difficult as biochemistry, physics, and orgo (for some) HAVE to be curved in order to get a decent amount of students to pass.

Why? I don't think they HAVE to get curved, no. Do they frequently get curved? Yes. Many schools automatically grade on a curved scale. Do I think it is necessary? It really depends. All of those classes you mentioned were curved for us, but the curve was a down-curve... averages were in the high 70's to low 80's.

Of course none of this really matters, if you try hard, put in the effort, and ask for help when it is needed. The only class that I would not have passed if it had not been for a curve was parasitology... the class average was a 30-something%, highest grade was in the 40's. I got a B, I had a 36% if I remember correctly.

I am not sure why this really matters to be honest.
 
I've not heard of a school that forces professors to apply a school-wide curve to each individual class, such that X % of the class gets A's, X % gets B's, etc. And, I think that would be incredibly inappropriate; some classes are just plain hard and there probably should be fewer A's. Some classes are easy - just by their nature. Biology 101 probably should have more A's than Biochemistry. Big deal.

I'm with BlackDog. You couldn't possibly standardize every class at every level of education in every locale in the world. It's just not realistic and would be detrimental to try.

If it's that big of a deal to you to get the 'easy' professors ... then talk to the people ahead of you in the program and find out who they are and arrange your schedule to get them.

If the chemistry dean really refused to adjust your grade that you genuinely earned, that's just plain injustice and you should take it to the next level above the chem dean, and so on, until you get it dealt with. But frankly, my "there's more to this story than we're hearing" alarm is ringing loudly like it sometimes does when we get stories of complete injustice here..... I'm betting you're either not telling us everything, or you aren't aware of everything.

Anyway, don't focus on grades so much. Do your best, learn the material, and keep lookin' forward. You'll go crazy worrying about whether you got the hard prof versus the easy prof.

👍 to all of this, but especially the "more to this story" and the entire last paragraph... you are going to drive yourself insane worrying about if you have the "hard" or "easy" prof. Just do your best and study hard.
 
Why? I don't think they HAVE to get curved, no. Do they frequently get curved? Yes. Many schools automatically grade on a curved scale. Do I think it is necessary? It really depends. All of those classes you mentioned were curved for us, but the curve was a down-curve... averages were in the high 70's to low 80's.

Of course none of this really matters, if you try hard, put in the effort, and ask for help when it is needed. The only class that I would not have passed if it had not been for a curve was parasitology... the class average was a 30-something%, highest grade was in the 40's. I got a B, I had a 36% if I remember correctly.

I am not sure why this really matters to be honest.

I guess my having been told by professors and a few admissions officers that "Students who cannot ace the typically difficult courses have no business in medicine" has me wondering why it's okay to curve. Of course, they who have that opinion are not the majority and I do not believe to be correct in that thought.

In your situation, I would think that the professor needs to be reviewed by the administration if the average is that low. May I ask if that happened? My genetics professor was similar in that the class average was pretty dismal. To my knowledge, he currently runs a section of course but is observing guest lecturers instead of teaching it himself...
 
I guess my having been told by professors and a few admissions officers that "Students who cannot ace the typically difficult courses have no business in medicine" has me wondering why it's okay to curve. Of course, they who have that opinion are not the majority and I do not believe to be correct in that thought.

In your situation, I would think that the professor needs to be reviewed by the administration if the average is that low. May I ask if that happened? My genetics professor was similar in that the class average was pretty dismal. To my knowledge, he currently runs a section of course but is observing guest lecturers instead of teaching it himself...

No, he was not reviewed... that class has a low average every year. It is regarded as a very difficult course. Even if you study, it is hard.

Example: Here is a slide of a parasite (you look at the slide on the microscope). What genus and species is this parasite? What class does it belong to? What sub-class does it belong to? What phyla does it belong to? What order? Basically any question and often multiple questions were asked about the parasite's nomenclature. What is a more common name for this parasite? What does this parasite typically infect? The ONLY information you have is what you saw on that microscope slide. You had 2 minutes at each microscope station, then a bell was rung and you moved on, there were 50 stations.
 
👍 to all of this, but especially the "more to this story" and the entire last paragraph... you are going to drive yourself insane worrying about if you have the "hard" or "easy" prof. Just do your best and study hard.

Simply put: No, there really isn't more to the story haha. He did have in his syllabus all grades are final. After a few 3 hour round trips for scheduled meetings to try and discuss this, I threw in the towel after he never showed for any of them. Just plain frustrating. It was a bad situation. The ombudsman couldn't do anything either.

Again, not trying to talk about hard and easy professors, but more so if you guys know of any attempts to be consistent in grading. Apparently I'm the only one that sees this as a potential issue lol
 
No, he was not reviewed... that class has a low average every year. It is regarded as a very difficult course. Even if you study, it is hard.

Example: Here is a slide of a parasite (you look at the slide on the microscope). What genus and species is this parasite? What class does it belong to? What sub-class does it belong to? What phyla does it belong to? What order? Basically any question and often multiple questions were asked about the parasite's nomenclature. What is a more common name for this parasite? What does this parasite typically infect? The ONLY information you have is what you saw on that microscope slide. You had 2 minutes at each microscope station, then a bell was rung and you moved on, there were 50 stations.

That sounds so tough! Kudos to you for making it through.👍
 
Simply put: No, there really isn't more to the story haha. He did have in his syllabus all grades are final. After a few 3 hour round trips for scheduled meetings to try and discuss this, I threw in the towel after he never showed for any of them. Just plain frustrating. It was a bad situation. The ombudsman couldn't do anything either.

Again, not trying to talk about hard and easy professors, but more so if you guys know of any attempts to be consistent in grading. Apparently I'm the only one that sees this as a potential issue lol

Consistency in grading doesn't even happen in vet school. I have compared some answers with classmates and we will often have written the same things and have very different scores... some people are gung-ho about trying to get that extra 1 or 2 points they feel they deserve, I am a bit more laid back and don't really mind.
 
In response to the OP...

Guess what? Life is unfair. You'll find far more serious injustices in this world than grade disputes as you progress through adulthood. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it as part of reality.
 
I just wanted to point out too in regards to the 0.5 grading scale. You may be upset if you got an A- (3.7) and were rounded down to 3.5; but what if you got a B+ (3.3) and were rounded up? I think it all evens out in the end, so I wouldn't be terribly concerned about something like that.
 
I just wanted to point out too in regards to the 0.5 grading scale. You may be upset if you got an A- (3.7) and were rounded down to 3.5; but what if you got a B+ (3.3) and were rounded up? I think it all evens out in the end, so I wouldn't be terribly concerned about something like that.

Good point. I didn't think of it that way!
 
sometimes these things are just unavoidable and its really not your fault 🙂 don't give up! many courses (in canada at least) don't even scale at all. half the students in my ochem class actually failed the course, similar to Jayna, except really no curving was done so essentially everyone ended up with a bad mark.
 
In your situation, I would think that the professor needs to be reviewed by the administration if the average is that low. May I ask if that happened? My genetics professor was similar in that the class average was pretty dismal. To my knowledge, he currently runs a section of course but is observing guest lecturers instead of teaching it himself...

Why on earth would you think he needs to be reviewed?

If a professor wants to put together tests that really stretch his or her students and truly find out the extent of what they know ... the scores are going to be in the 20-50% range. Big deal. As long as he or she adjusts her final grading to appropriately reflect grades (i.e. curves), what's wrong with it? Is there some rule that professors should be required to write tests that everyone can get 80% on?
 
Again, not trying to talk about hard and easy professors, but more so if you guys know of any attempts to be consistent in grading. Apparently I'm the only one that sees this as a potential issue lol

I'm just bewildered by the idea. How, exactly, would you establish perfect 'consistency' in grading? What do you call 'consistent'?

I mean, it's already been done. It's called the 4-pt scale that is used ... well, most places. At least in the U.S. The overwhelming majority of college and post-bacc classes are translated from however the school or professor grades onto that 4-pt scale.

That IS how it's made consistent.

So what exactly are you looking for?
 
I'm just bewildered by the idea. How, exactly, would you establish perfect 'consistency' in grading? What do you call 'consistent'?

I mean, it's already been done. It's called the 4-pt scale that is used ... well, most places. At least in the U.S. The overwhelming majority of college and post-bacc classes are translated from however the school or professor grades onto that 4-pt scale.

That IS how it's made consistent.

So what exactly are you looking for?

Consistent as in no extra points are made available if they are not available under all professors, identical grading scales and curves, etc. At my university, we use the 4.0, 3.5, and so on scale. But the professors could set a 4.0 to be a 93%, 90%, or 85% for the same course but their own sections. I completely understand that only in utopia will you find professors that teach the material in an identical way.
 
It's always hard to keep yourself from going over the "what could have beens".

The closest thing to something "standardized" or "consistent" that I can think of my undergrad doing was in Biology 1 (a requirement for every student enrolled at the school). Maybe 4 professors each taught 2 or more classes of 300+ students. The professors all taught in their own style, but every student enrolled in biology that semester took the exact same exam, no matter who was their teacher. No curves, grades by scantron. Those 4 exams were the only grades in the course. Sure they'd talked with each other about what needed to be covered in the course, and provided us with learning objectives, but it was a challenge to know what was likely to show up on the exam. We didnt just love it or hate it either way. I'm not even sure it was a fair assessment of the stuff you were lectured over...more about how well you read the book and used the bio dept's learning tools. Maybe Dr. Black liked eutrophication a whole lot and spent an entire lecture on it with his class, and Dr. White didn't care about it and spent 5 minutes on it in your class. But then Dr. Yellow wrote the exam everyone took so you can't be sure how much detail he expected you to have learned. Even then, it was on you to do some outside learning so you could do well. I think this might be what you are describing. And honestly, with variations in professors I don't think its as helpful as you're thinking it would be, unless somehow you make every professor read off a script and say the exact same words. And who wants to listen to that, haha!

It doesn't take long for a professor to get a reputation as a hard test writer. I'd tell anyone to heed warnings about who writes hard questions and be prepared. Even with new professors, after the first exam you know what to expect and have to adjust your study methods accordingly.
 
Why on earth would you think he needs to be reviewed?

If a professor wants to put together tests that really stretch his or her students and truly find out the extent of what they know ... the scores are going to be in the 20-50% range. Big deal. As long as he or she adjusts her final grading to appropriately reflect grades (i.e. curves), what's wrong with it? Is there some rule that professors should be required to write tests that everyone can get 80% on?

I definitely see where your coming from. Profs SHOULD challenge their students. But what's the point if they're going to alter the grading scale just so students can pass the course in the end? I get that you can't really get away with failing the entire class, and that you should not give out easy exams for the heck of it. According to the parasitology example, the highest score was a 40% or so, meaning no one studied hard enough in that class based on the general feedback I've been getting.

I guess we can deviate here and also ask....Should the professor make the class so exceedingly difficult that the top score is a 40%? Even though based on the description, the topic matter could not really be made simple.
 
It's always hard to keep yourself from going over the "what could have beens".

The closest thing to something "standardized" or "consistent" that I can think of my undergrad doing was in Biology 1 (a requirement for every student enrolled at the school). Maybe 4 professors each taught 2 or more classes of 300+ students. The professors all taught in their own style, but every student enrolled in biology that semester took the exact same exam, no matter who was their teacher. No curves, grades by scantron. Those 4 exams were the only grades in the course. Sure they'd talked with each other about what needed to be covered in the course, and provided us with learning objectives, but it was a challenge to know what was likely to show up on the exam. We didnt just love it or hate it either way. I'm not even sure it was a fair assessment of the stuff you were lectured over...more about how well you read the book and used the bio dept's learning tools. Maybe Dr. Black liked eutrophication a whole lot and spent an entire lecture on it with his class, and Dr. White didn't care about it and spent 5 minutes on it in your class. But then Dr. Yellow wrote the exam everyone took so you can't be sure how much detail he expected you to have learned. Even then, it was on you to do some outside learning so you could do well. I think this might be what you are describing. And honestly, with variations in professors I don't think its as helpful as you're thinking it would be, unless somehow you make every professor read off a script and say the exact same words. And who wants to listen to that, haha!

It doesn't take long for a professor to get a reputation as a hard test writer. I'd tell anyone to heed warnings about who writes hard questions and be prepared. Even with new professors, after the first exam you know what to expect and have to adjust your study methods accordingly.

Thanks for the example! This does show me more of how it can be a bad thing, which is exactly what I was hoping to get. I am getting a case of the application blues as you guys probably can tell. Just worrying how what were differences between professors that would have probably resulted in a better grade are going to play out.
 
Thanks for the example! This does show me more of how it can be a bad thing, which is exactly what I was hoping to get. I am getting a case of the application blues as you guys probably can tell. Just worrying how what were differences between professors that would have probably resulted in a better grade are going to play out.

I've always tried to have an attitude where you can't change the past, so let's learn from it but put the focus on moving forward. Try to chill out and enjoy the fact that your application has been turned in. You can't do anything but wait until you hear about interviews. Then you can stress a little bit more until they are over. I know, I know, easier said than done. We've all been there, too. Even if it doesn't work out for you, your application could be even stronger next year (but hopefully it DOES work out!)
 
Consistent as in no extra points are made available if they are not available under all professors, identical grading scales and curves, etc. At my university, we use the 4.0, 3.5, and so on scale. But the professors could set a 4.0 to be a 93%, 90%, or 85% for the same course but their own sections. I completely understand that only in utopia will you find professors that teach the material in an identical way.

Eh. Whether points are 'extra' or not is just in the name. One prof's 'extra' points is another prof's 'required' points. Points are points - who cares whether they're called 'bonus' or not. People always get bent out of shape about 'bonus points'. My advice: just view them like any other points in a class.

Anyway, you just can't realistically set identical grading scales/curves for every prof.

1) Imagine how much work it would be for every prof to write exams that churned out - semester after semester - exactly the correct results to fit the required curve. How would they go about doing that?

2) Requiring that sort of thing leaves no room for class variation. In reality, some classes have more super high performers, and some have more clunkers. You shouldn't force a prof to squeeze every class onto the same curve.

3) Why should every class fit the same curve? Do you really think English 101 should have the same grade distribution as Advanced Physical Chemistry? (I don't.)

4) Requiring only certain types of 'points' completely removes the professor's opportunity to be creative and TEACH. I mean, why stop at what you're saying? How is it fair that one class gets graded on papers (subjective!) and one class gets graded on multiple choice exams (objective!). To truly standardize, you'd have to standardize on testing methodology and require the same testing across all classes. Wham - now you've suddenly removed the prof's ability to require any homework (ha! can't grade me on homework because it's not standardized across classes!) or to use different testing methods. Your capstone undergrad class can't require that 35-page paper because, shoot, how do you standardize the grading of that?

Bottom line ... I think you're just being unrealistic. You're better off accepting that in the interests of teaching and learning profs need to have some amount of flexibility.
 
I definitely understand your point of view and I do agree to some extent. I guess my issue does stem from the lack of standardization. I do agree that it would be impractical, but could you expand more on how it would be detrimental? I'm genuinely curious. I could be missing the big picture here.

I come from a state that had (and still does, as far as I'm aware) a TON of standardized testing through elementary and middle school, and also high school to some extent. The schools were under a LOT of pressure from the state (with possible loss of funding/accreditation) to produce high scores on these exams. Plus the media was always ready to pounce on whatever schools got the lowest scores. That all translated into serious pressure on the teachers. The end result was that the teachers "taught to the exam," meaning that rather than teaching the subject material, they specifically taught us to memorize and regurgitate exactly what was on the exam.

On the surface, that doesn't sound like a problem. If the exam is designed to test a specific subject, then teaching to the exam should teach that subject, right? But it doesn't. For one thing, you never get to go in depth. Even if the students master the material on the exam, they're usually just left sitting at that same level of knowledge, either because the teacher is poorly equipped to teach beyond what the exam covers or because the teacher/the school doesn't think the students need to know more since the exam doesn't cover it, or because they want to ensure their school gets the highest scores so they'll just repeat the same material to make sure the students really know it. End result: the students get cheated out of a proper education.

On the other hand, even if the students are lacking in an understanding of the basic concepts, it doesn't matter. They're still taught to the exam, which means some of them will never master those concepts. It's all just memorize and regurgitate - so long as the scores meet the requirement, it doesn't matter whether anyone actually learns the material.

It's especially detrimental because you're never actually taught to think critically or form your own opinions. Even in courses where you would think that would be a requirement, like English. I can remember writing practice essays to prepare for the exams and having the teachers specifically tell us what we should and shouldn't include in our discussions of the required novels. If you've ever taken a well-taught English literature course, you know that there really are no right or wrong answers when discussing literature, yet we were told what we could and could not say. I always loved English Lit and I had a tendency to choose more off-the-wall stances in my essays. but that was very strongly discouraged whenever there was a standardized test coming up. We were always told things like "The graders love to see X" and "Don't bring up Y, that doesn't look good to the graders." And people wonder why my kids in my generation are apparently unable to think for themselves!

Then there are the teachers/professors who simply don't give a damn and teach the course the way they want to teach it . . . which is great and all, until the students find themselves in the middle of a standardized test on material they may not ever have covered, or they wind up getting low scores because they couldn't regurgitate the exact correct responses. This happened to me in Gen Chem in college - professor taught normally throughout the semester, then made us all take a standardized general chemistry exam as our final. Half the test consisted of very specific questions with very specific answers that we were expected to have memorized, except he never got around to teaching that part of the course. Two people passed.

The schools with the lowest scores every year were the ones that suffered the most. There was always a huge controversy every year because the city in my area always had absolutely atrocious reading scores. This city was primarily composed of ghettos, had a skyrocketing crime rate, and ever-increasing incidences of gang violence. Most of those kids came from extremely poor families. Some of them didn't even have enough food, let alone access to books and learning materials. Nevertheless, the question was always "How can we raise our city's test scores?" and never "What can we do to help these kids?" Those kids could have benefited hugely from a more engaging curriculum and a chance to actually explore real books and find the fun in learning. Instead they were forced to memorize vocabulary words just like the rest of us, because that's what the exam would ask for. To my knowledge, that city still has some of the lowest reading skill levels in the state.

Obviously these are more extreme cases, but this happened to some extent in every school where regular standardized testing was used, and it has a huge impact on the education of the students.

Can you imagine the kind of impact that would have on a pre-vet curriculum, if all courses required standardized testing in order to advance? If a course doesn't challenge you, too bad. If you're struggling to understand, too bad. There's no building off of previous knowledge - even if you don't remember the basics, just memorize the answers and keep moving forward. There's no going more in-depth to understand clinical applications or to explore topics that interest you. And forget about being even a halfway decent diagnostician - you've never been allowed to think for yourself before, so what are you going to do when you're flying solo on your first case? What happens when a disease presents in an uncommon way? What happens when the owner can't afford to pay for that primary treatment option, and you need to come up with a new solution? Yes, there is memorization involved in every level of education, but as a clinician you're going to need to use judgement, critical thinking, and problem solving skills. If you've never had to do that before, well . . . your patient is screwed, for starters.

Sorry, but I get really fired up about that whole system. I never learned how to study properly - I didn't even know that there were different learning styles until I got to college! We were always told: this is the material you need to know and this is the way you have to learn it. I really think the main reason why I always disliked school and did poorly in many courses was that I simply wasn't engaged and was never allowed or encouraged to learn the material in a way that worked for me. Once I finally started exploring different study techniques halfway through college, it was like a whole new world opened up for me and suddenly I actually understood and retained the information I was learning.

Okay, end rant.

EDIT: LIS just summed that up WAY more succinctly than I ever could.
 
Eh. Whether points are 'extra' or not is just in the name. One prof's 'extra' points is another prof's 'required' points. Points are points - who cares whether they're called 'bonus' or not. People always get bent out of shape about 'bonus points'. My advice: just view them like any other points in a class.

Anyway, you just can't realistically set identical grading scales/curves for every prof.

1) Imagine how much work it would be for every prof to write exams that churned out - semester after semester - exactly the correct results to fit the required curve. How would they go about doing that?

2) Requiring that sort of thing leaves no room for class variation. In reality, some classes have more super high performers, and some have more clunkers. You shouldn't force a prof to squeeze every class onto the same curve.

3) Why should every class fit the same curve? Do you really think English 101 should have the same grade distribution as Advanced Physical Chemistry? (I don't.)

4) Requiring only certain types of 'points' completely removes the professor's opportunity to be creative and TEACH. I mean, why stop at what you're saying? How is it fair that one class gets graded on papers (subjective!) and one class gets graded on multiple choice exams (objective!). To truly standardize, you'd have to standardize on testing methodology and require the same testing across all classes. Wham - now you've suddenly removed the prof's ability to require any homework (ha! can't grade me on homework because it's not standardized across classes!) or to use different testing methods. Your capstone undergrad class can't require that 35-page paper because, shoot, how do you standardize the grading of that?

Bottom line ... I think you're just being unrealistic. You're better off accepting that in the interests of teaching and learning profs need to have some amount of flexibility.

Well, I was comparing the differences that occur in the same course but among different professors, but if I were to suggest standardizing everything, all of your points stand. I do like your view on bonus points however. I try to view them as required, especially if they are bonus attendance points!

I will try to stop thinking about it. Although after asking my extremely smart roommate, she says she also dislikes curves because they boost the students who didn't study as hard as she did haha
 
I come from a state that had (and still does, as far as I'm aware) a TON of standardized testing through elementary and middle school, and also high school to some extent. The schools were under a LOT of pressure from the state (with possible loss of funding/accreditation) to produce high scores on these exams. Plus the media was always ready to pounce on whatever schools got the lowest scores. That all translated into serious pressure on the teachers. The end result was that the teachers "taught to the exam," meaning that rather than teaching the subject material, they specifically taught us to memorize and regurgitate exactly what was on the exam.

On the surface, that doesn't sound like a problem. If the exam is designed to test a specific subject, then teaching to the exam should teach that subject, right? But it doesn't. For one thing, you never get to go in depth. Even if the students master the material on the exam, they're usually just left sitting at that same level of knowledge, either because the teacher is poorly equipped to teach beyond what the exam covers or because the teacher/the school doesn't think the students need to know more since the exam doesn't cover it, or because they want to ensure their school gets the highest scores so they'll just repeat the same material to make sure the students really know it. End result: the students get cheated out of a proper education.

On the other hand, even if the students are lacking in an understanding of the basic concepts, it doesn't matter. They're still taught to the exam, which means some of them will never master those concepts. It's all just memorize and regurgitate - so long as the scores meet the requirement, it doesn't matter whether anyone actually learns the material.

It's especially detrimental because you're never actually taught to think critically or form your own opinions. Even in courses where you would think that would be a requirement, like English. I can remember writing practice essays to prepare for the exams and having the teachers specifically tell us what we should and shouldn't include in our discussions of the required novels. If you've ever taken a well-taught English literature course, you know that there really are no right or wrong answers when discussing literature, yet we were told what we could and could not say. I always loved English Lit and I had a tendency to choose more off-the-wall stances in my essays. but that was very strongly discouraged whenever there was a standardized test coming up. We were always told things like "The graders love to see X" and "Don't bring up Y, that doesn't look good to the graders." And people wonder why my kids in my generation are apparently unable to think for themselves!

Then there are the teachers/professors who simply don't give a damn and teach the course the way they want to teach it . . . which is great and all, until the students find themselves in the middle of a standardized test on material they may not ever have covered, or they wind up getting low scores because they couldn't regurgitate the exact correct responses. This happened to me in Gen Chem in college - professor taught normally throughout the semester, then made us all take a standardized general chemistry exam as our final. Half the test consisted of very specific questions with very specific answers that we were expected to have memorized, except he never got around to teaching that part of the course. Two people passed.

The schools with the lowest scores every year were the ones that suffered the most. There was always a huge controversy every year because the city in my area always had absolutely atrocious reading scores. This city was primarily composed of ghettos, had a skyrocketing crime rate, and ever-increasing incidences of gang violence. Most of those kids came from extremely poor families. Some of them didn't even have enough food, let alone access to books and learning materials. Nevertheless, the question was always "How can we raise our city's test scores?" and never "What can we do to help these kids?" Those kids could have benefited hugely from a more engaging curriculum and a chance to actually explore real books and find the fun in learning. Instead they were forced to memorize vocabulary words just like the rest of us, because that's what the exam would ask for. To my knowledge, that city still has some of the lowest reading skill levels in the state.

Obviously these are more extreme cases, but this happened to some extent in every school where regular standardized testing was used, and it has a huge impact on the education of the students.

Can you imagine the kind of impact that would have on a pre-vet curriculum, if all courses required standardized testing in order to advance? If a course doesn't challenge you, too bad. If you're struggling to understand, too bad. There's no building off of previous knowledge - even if you don't remember the basics, just memorize the answers and keep moving forward. There's no going more in-depth to understand clinical applications or to explore topics that interest you. And forget about being even a halfway decent diagnostician - you've never been allowed to think for yourself before, so what are you going to do when you're flying solo on your first case? What happens when a disease presents in an uncommon way? What happens when the owner can't afford to pay for that primary treatment option, and you need to come up with a new solution? Yes, there is memorization involved in every level of education, but as a clinician you're going to need to use judgement, critical thinking, and problem solving skills. If you've never had to do that before, well . . . your patient is screwed, for starters.

Sorry, but I get really fired up about that whole system. I never learned how to study properly - I didn't even know that there were different learning styles until I got to college! We were always told: this is the material you need to know and this is the way you have to learn it. I really think the main reason why I always disliked school and did poorly in many courses was that I simply wasn't engaged and was never allowed or encouraged to learn the material in a way that worked for me. Once I finally started exploring different study techniques halfway through college, it was like a whole new world opened up for me and suddenly I actually understood and retained the information I was learning.

Okay, end rant.

EDIT: LIS just summed that up WAY more succinctly than I ever could.

I definitely see where standardized testing causes issue, which is why I didn't say that I thought that should be implemented. I understand you can't standardize teaching methods. But why not standardize how many points will get you what grade? I know you can argue that certain professors will test harder or easier than another, but then you should just change your schedule as suggested previously.
 
I definitely see where your coming from. Profs SHOULD challenge their students. But what's the point if they're going to alter the grading scale just so students can pass the course in the end?

The problem is in your question; it only makes sense if you have a universally accepted numerical definition of passing.

But you don't. (And, I think, you shouldn't.)

Let's take two exams covering EXACTLY the same material.

Test #1 is super easy and you ought to get 95% without studying. What do you call 'passing'?

Test #2 is super hard, requires you to apply the material in ways never presented, and even the brightest people would be challenged to get 50% with weeks of studying. What do you call 'passing'?

So, your question just doesn't make any sense, because profs 'alter the grading scale' in order to adjust to the difficulty that was presented to the students. They alter it to make it fair, not to make it unfair. Surely you wouldn't say that the people who got 50% on the harder test should fail because some people got 95% on the first test.

Should the professor make the class so exceedingly difficult that the top score is a 40%? Even though based on the description, the topic matter could not really be made simple.

Why not? It's up to them to determine how best to teach the material. I took an organic chemistry class like that where our top score on our final was 35%. But that's because the test really required you to stretch your knowledge and apply what was taught. That's arguably a better way to find out how well people have grasped the material than some easy-peasy multiple choice test where everyone can score 90%.

I guess my question to you is: Why are you so hung up on expecting that every test given by every professor should have exactly the same 'percentage' required to pass it with the same grade? Why does it matter? (I honestly am having trouble thinking of a single reason.)

That just doesn't even remotely make any sense.
 
I definitely see where standardized testing causes issue, which is why I didn't say that I thought that should be implemented. I understand you can't standardize teaching methods. But why not standardize how many points will get you what grade? I know you can argue that certain professors will test harder or easier than another, but then you should just change your schedule as suggested previously.

I don't even know what you're asking for any more. Exams will be weighted differently in every class based on the number of them you're given, other assignments, attendance, etc. By the same token, courses are weighted differently based on number of credits. You can't just say that everyone who gets an 85% on one exam gets a 3.5 GPA no matter what. That's not the way grading works, and I'm sure you must know that by now.
 
PinkPuppy,

To allay your fears, a serious attempt is made at some institutions (in some courses) to do exactly what you're suggesting.

When I was a graduate student, I taught a number of classes (introductory labs/advanced labs/lectures/discussions). My favorite class to teach was Intro Bio Lab. I found that most undergrads at this stage in their education weren't jaded by the professional school race for admittance, and actually wanted to learn rather than achieve a certain grade in my course. This being said, the course director (I attended a large, public university for graduate school, and there were several sections of said course, taught by multiple TAs), required that we were all consistent with our grading.

As a laboratory class, students were required to submit a number of lab reports throughout the duration of the course. The course thus counted as a 'writing across the curriculum' requirement for undergrads. As TAs, we had to assess A) Writing ability as well as B) Scientific content. Not an easy job.

At the beginning of each quarter, the course director would hand out pre-selected laboratory reports from prior years (around 5 or 6 writing samples). Each TA would be required to read these, and score them as he/she thought appropriate. If an individual's scoring did not match A) The director's assessment of what the target score should be and B) The average score of other TAs in the group, the TA who was 'offline' was required to hone their grading skill (by assessing additional writing samples) until his/her grading came within bound.

If one was an experienced instructor, this was a fairly easy task. If one was an inexperienced instructor, this was a challenging task. Also, one could have very different opinions regarding the 'harshness' of the grading than the course director. I certainly did. Regardless, you had to be in line with the two guideposts mentioned above.

This is just one method whereby instructors are doing their best to insure that you are graded consistently across course sections within large universities. Teaching/grading is not an easy task.
 
I don't even know what you're asking for any more. Exams will be weighted differently in every class based on the number of them you're given, other assignments, attendance, etc. By the same token, courses are weighted differently based on number of credits. You can't just say that everyone who gets an 85% on one exam gets a 3.5 GPA no matter what. That's not the way grading works, and I'm sure you must know that by now.

I think the OP doesn't like (as best I can tell) that you can take, say, College Algebra from one teacher who has 4 exams that are super hard, and get an A in the course with 50% ... whereas you can take College Algebra from another teacher who has 2 really easy exams, and get an A with 90%.

What I'm unclear on is the 'why'. Like, I can't figure out what that bothers him/her. Definitely curious, though! My sense is she (he?) finds it inherently unfair, but I don't quite get why. Different teachers, different courses; even if they cover the same material. Anyway, am I on track, OP? Is that what you don't like?
 
LetItSnow, when I read what you said, I instantly thought of my grade school teacher who used to say something along the lines of "If I give you 1 and 2, you should be able to come up with 4." As in, you should be able to synthesize the information. It makes sense. We're in college. But if I go by some of the feedback by other posters, you did not study hard enough for your final and no one grasped the material. If I go by what you're saying, you were truly challenged by your professor.

I'm not expecting everything to be identical, obviously. I was asking if any schools address this in any form. So I see that yours does not.

BlackDog, this argument got kind of to the point where we aren't addressing my original question anymore, but more assuming that I want to have a national standard for every single class and every single school...

And when I brought up percentages, I meant final grades. Not just one exam. This got so out of hand so quickly haha. I'm just going to assume no one attends a school that attempts to standardize grading scales among professors and call it a night!!
 
PinkPuppy,

To allay your fears, a serious attempt is made at some institutions (in some courses) to do exactly what you're suggesting.

When I was a graduate student, I taught a number of classes (introductory labs/advanced labs/lectures/discussions). My favorite class to teach was Intro Bio Lab. I found that most undergrads at this stage in their education weren't jaded by the professional school race for admittance, and actually wanted to learn rather than achieve a certain grade in my course. This being said, the course director (I attended a large, public university for graduate school, and there were several sections of said course, taught by multiple TAs), required that we were all consistent with our grading.

As a laboratory class, students were required to submit a number of lab reports throughout the duration of the course. The course thus counted as a 'writing across the curriculum' requirement for undergrads. As TAs, we had to assess A) Writing ability as well as B) Scientific content. Not an easy job.

At the beginning of each quarter, the course director would hand out pre-selected laboratory reports from prior years (around 5 or 6 writing samples). Each TA would be required to read these, and score them as he/she thought appropriate. If an individual's scoring did not match A) The director's assessment of what the target score should be and B) The average score of other TAs in the group, the TA who was 'offline' was required to hone their grading skill (by assessing additional writing samples) until his/her grading came within bound.

If one was an experienced instructor, this was a fairly easy task. If one was an inexperienced instructor, this was a challenging task. Also, one could have very different opinions regarding the 'harshness' of the grading than the course director. I certainly did. Regardless, you had to be in line with the two guideposts mentioned above.

This is just one method whereby instructors are doing their best to insure that you are graded consistently across course sections within large universities. Teaching/grading is not an easy task.

My undergrad did this for certain labs as well. In most cases, the professors would also scale according to a bell curve, which would rule out any residual grading discrepancies among the individual TAs.
 
I think the OP doesn't like (as best I can tell) that you can take, say, College Algebra from one teacher who has 4 exams that are super hard, and get an A in the course with 50% ... whereas you can take College Algebra from another teacher who has 2 really easy exams, and get an A with 90%.

What I'm unclear on is the 'why'. Like, I can't figure out what that bothers him/her. Definitely curious, though! My sense is she (he?) finds it inherently unfair, but I don't quite get why. Different teachers, different courses; even if they cover the same material. Anyway, am I on track, OP? Is that what you don't like?

Okay, I'll stay on haha! Let me give you more background to my opinions. One of my roommates is that one person we all love to hate...the one with the highest score on the exams. She thinks curves are unfair. After all, she spend 4 hours a day for two weeks preparing for the exam. Why should everyone else get "rewarded" for not studying as hard as her? I COMPLETELY get where she is coming from. I don't really see where anyone else can argue against that.

For the Algebra example you stated, do you think it's fair that some students can put in very little work to get such a high grade, while the other students put in more work and technically received a failing grade before the curve? That is where my issue lies essentially. I think I tried stating a similar example in a previous post but you may have put it in simpler words than I did.

I get the whole "impossible to standardize everything" talk. I am simply asking if any schools out there address this. Because I do not think such discrepancies are fair, especially for the tuition we pay.
 
PinkPuppy,

To allay your fears, a serious attempt is made at some institutions (in some courses) to do exactly what you're suggesting.

When I was a graduate student, I taught a number of classes (introductory labs/advanced labs/lectures/discussions). My favorite class to teach was Intro Bio Lab. I found that most undergrads at this stage in their education weren't jaded by the professional school race for admittance, and actually wanted to learn rather than achieve a certain grade in my course. This being said, the course director (I attended a large, public university for graduate school, and there were several sections of said course, taught by multiple TAs), required that we were all consistent with our grading.

As a laboratory class, students were required to submit a number of lab reports throughout the duration of the course. The course thus counted as a 'writing across the curriculum' requirement for undergrads. As TAs, we had to assess A) Writing ability as well as B) Scientific content. Not an easy job.

At the beginning of each quarter, the course director would hand out pre-selected laboratory reports from prior years (around 5 or 6 writing samples). Each TA would be required to read these, and score them as he/she thought appropriate. If an individual's scoring did not match A) The director's assessment of what the target score should be and B) The average score of other TAs in the group, the TA who was 'offline' was required to hone their grading skill (by assessing additional writing samples) until his/her grading came within bound.

If one was an experienced instructor, this was a fairly easy task. If one was an inexperienced instructor, this was a challenging task. Also, one could have very different opinions regarding the 'harshness' of the grading than the course director. I certainly did. Regardless, you had to be in line with the two guideposts mentioned above.

This is just one method whereby instructors are doing their best to insure that you are graded consistently across course sections within large universities. Teaching/grading is not an easy task.

Lab Vet, thank you for the example! My physics labs are similar in that all sections are placed on the same bell curve and adjusted as one large section. It is true that TA's have differing opinions and can grade accordingly.
 
Okay, I'll stay on haha! Let me give you more background to my opinions. One of my roommates is that one person we all love to hate...the one with the highest score on the exams. She thinks curves are unfair. After all, she spend 4 hours a day for two weeks preparing for the exam. Why should everyone else get "rewarded" for not studying as hard as her? I COMPLETELY get where she is coming from. I don't really see where anyone else can argue against that.

Easy. Take my undergrad organic chem class, where the A was 35%. Let's say she got the 35%.

Should the entire class fail? The curve helps her just as much as anyone. She still gets her 'A' for doing better than everyone else, and some poor schlup (probably me in my earlier go-arounds at college) would get an F with their 10%.

She's conveniently ONLY thinking of those times where she was already sitting at an awesome grade and the curve helped everyone but her. But that's not necessarily how a curve *has* to work. I guarantee you that when she hits my organic chem teacher, she'll suddenly become a believer in 'the curve'.

For the Algebra example you stated, do you think it's fair that some students can put in very little work to get such a high grade, while the other students put in more work and technically received a failing grade before the curve?

See, I don't buy your question. You have that caveat "technically received a failing grade" - but that's only because you've pre-determined in your mind that X percentage is always failing. For my organic chem prof that certainly wasn't true: to him my 32% was a pretty fine grade. He didn't think of it as "technically failing" at all.

Since one teacher tested one group of students one way, and the other tested a completely different group of students a different way; I'd say yes, it's perfectly fair. So long as the final grade given out by the instructor was a reasonable assessment of the individual's mastery of the material. Whether it's an 'A' for 30% or an 'A' for 90% is pretty irrelevant.

I think that's part of the issue; you've just got this locked-in narrow view that some particular percentage ought to equal passing. But why? It's pretty arbitrary when you think about it. Why does 90% have to equal an A? Why can't it be 50%, if the testing is designed that way? Or 10%? Or 80%?
 
I know it's tough where you're at, but, as I former instructor I highly recommend that you worry less about the grades and more about comprehension and synthesis of the material. Try to care less about what other folks 'got' in comparison to you. That's asking a lot given that we're all posting on this pre-vet forum gunning for admission to veterinary school. That being said, we all have different qualities to offer. I have different qualities than LIS, than BlackDog, than you. I guarantee that EACH of our backgrounds will be different, with respect to education as well as respect to intangible qualities.

Your goal in undergrad (and advanced schooling) should be to LEARN the material. The grade is simply a label. Did you get something out of the course? Can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly admit to yourself that you did the best that you could? If so, who cares how anyone else did? Curves, comparative professorial grading- all irrelevant at that stage. What matters in the end is what you learned, what you took away from that experience. More to the point, can you use it and apply it in later experiences? That's the true test.

I strongly suggest making a genuine effort to focus less on grades (outcome) and more on process. I think you'll be far happier and less stressed 🙂
 
I strongly suggest making a genuine effort to focus less on grades (outcome) and more on process. I think you'll be far happier and less stressed 🙂

... not to mention that if you can adopt that attitude before you get to vet school (I certainly didn't), you'll be a crap-ton less stressed in vet school. And probably a better doctor for it.
 
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