unhappy nurses?

[sunnyjohn]

Why does every single thread that deals with nursing have to end in a free-for-all?

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[zenman]

Nursing should have one entry level and that should be a four year degree as in most other professions. We are confusing everybody including ourselves with multiple entry levels. The BS is not just for moving up or gaining admin. positions and I find it hard to believe that some many people think so. Here's info from a school that has both 2 and 4 yr nursing programs:

Associate of Science in Nursing
A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings.

Bachelor of Science in Nursing
A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care.

Do you get it now?????

Paramedics should be paid more. Nurses can't function in the field without more experience/training.

More education of any kind, especially liberal arts (I'd get a Ph.D. in it if I could) is very handy. But what the hell do I know about it?

Randall Sexton, RN, MSN, MBA, CP, Dipl. ABT (NCCAOM)

 

[LabMonster]

This thread makes me laugh - in a demented way.

Nurses are like any other group of people - there is a percentage that bitch and moan about EVERYTHING - same with doctors, same as cabinet builders and diesel mechanics. Some people just aren't happy with anything, ever.

To set the record straight, nurses are not looked down on, most people I've met working in healthcare look up to them. The lowest esteemed class in the healthcare profession has to be the lab - just my experience.

 

[sunnyjohn]

This thread makes me laugh - in a demented way.

Nurses are like any other group of people - there is a percentage that bitch and moan about EVERYTHING - same with doctors, same as cabinet builders and diesel mechanics. Some people just aren't happy with anything, ever.

To set the record straight, nurses are not looked down on, most people I've met working in healthcare look up to them. The lowest esteemed class in the healthcare profession has to be the lab - just my experience.

Yes, those lab people are awful with their test tubes and Bunsen burners!
BAWHAAA!!!

 

[ISU_Steve]

Actually the average hospital RN around here pulls a minimum of $28 an hour, which works out to over $60K a year for someone doing 4- 12 hr shifts per week.

But as for the argument over the roles of various practitioners, I'd like to share something that one of our ER docs (who started out as an RN at a trauma center prior to be becoming an MD) told me: "A doctor is only as good as his or her worst nurse, and a nurse is only as good as the worst doctor he or she works with. Like it or not there is no seperating the two, one can not succeed at their job without the other." It's wisdom like that they needs to be heeded more often in this field, but I know it won't change attitudes because most of us needs our egos tended to far too much.

 

[LabMonster]

Yes, those lab people are awful with their test tubes and Bunsen burners!
BAWHAAA!!!

See?! That's what I mean.

 

[zenman]

But as for the argument over the roles of various practitioners, I'd like to share something that one of our ER docs (who started out as an RN at a trauma center prior to be becoming an MD) told me: "A doctor is only as good as his or her worst nurse, and a nurse is only as good as the worst doctor he or she works with. Like it or not there is no seperating the two, one can not succeed at their job without the other." It's wisdom like that they needs to be heeded more often in this field, but I know it won't change attitudes because most of us needs our egos tended to far too much.

Yep, it takes a team.

 

[mx_599]

Nurses are some of the lowest paid health care professionals in the Nation.

are you insane?? have to disagree on this one. nurses I have seen are well paid, especially for the amount of training

 

[mx_599]

3. Inadequate compensation. While there may be places where nurses make really good money (esp. travelers), there are far too many places that are paying experienced RNs far below $20/hr.

where? those RN's should be smart enough to find a higher paying position then

 

[mx_599]

There aren't too many professions that allow you to earn 90K/year with 2 years of schooling out there,

exactly

 

[mx_599]

Where??? Curious? Cali???

Arizona for one....

 

[mx_599]

I make $50K working 3 days a week working as a staff nurse in a small L & D unit. The benefits are excellent. We are not mandated to work OT, but are compensated with OT bonuses if we are needed to work additional shifts. I do not have to work night shift or weekends, I can’t complain, there are much worse jobs to be had that pay far less. My husband is the main bread winner in our family

nurses are not paid enough...right

 

[mx_599]

Actually, besides MDs and DOs, nurses are some of the HIGHEST paid health care workers. In most states, phlebotomists, CNA's, ER Techs, EMT's (basic through Paramedic), radiology techs, medical social workers, hospital transporters, health unit secretaries, child life specialists, mid and low level hospital administrators, pharmacy techs, and hospital chaplains ALL make less than registered nurses. Also, there are few other areas where an associate's degree can command $40,000-$50,000 per year (depending on state) within the first 1-2 years with little experience. Just a little info.

CrazyPremed

thank you!

 

[mx_599]

Not all people with nursing degrees (RN's ) have an ADN, some of us have a BS. That is something that bothers me, when people don't even realize many RNs may have a 4 yr degree and complain about how ALL the RNs with their AD's etc....just a point. (This is not to say anything bad about ADN nurses but I think it's funny when people who make assumptions that nurses never went to college or blah blah or all nurses have is an AD)

whoopdeedoo...do you have an idea of what an average salary is for a 4 yr degree across the nation? probably less than many RN's of a 2yr program!

 

[mx_599]

Actually the average hospital RN around here pulls a minimum of $28 an hour, which works out to over $60K a year for someone doing 4- 12 hr shifts per week.

yupppp

 

[smkoepke]

whoopdeedoo...do you have an idea of what an average salary is for a 4 yr degree across the nation? probably less than many RN's of a 2yr program!

i think the issue is that nurses (and paramedics for that matter) have such a stressful job, put up with a lot of crap and carry a lot of resposibility. They often don't get to take their breaks, lunch etc... lives are in their hands every moment. When you look at it like that, they aren't paid enough inmho. Other "2 yr" degree graduates don't have the responsibility of being immediately responisble for their "clients" lives. I think some nurses have found places and roles where they are compensated well, however for the stress and responsibility of the job, as a general rule, they should be paid more.

 

[zenman]

i think the issue is that nurses (and paramedics for that matter) have such a stressful job, put up with a lot of crap and carry a lot of resposibility. They often don't get to take their breaks, lunch etc... lives are in their hands every moment. When you look at it like that, they aren't paid enough inmho. Other "2 yr" degree graduates don't have the responsibility of being immediately responisble for their "clients" lives. I think some nurses have found places and roles where they are compensated well, however for the stress and responsibility of the job, as a general rule, they should be paid more.

I make 90k a year doing 3 12hr shifts a week yet I'd just had about enough crap that I was giving up nursing. Thank goodness my wife got a job in another country.

 

[ISU_Steve]

Yeah, nurses and paramedics function less as healthcare providers and more as "grief mops" in many cases. It just eats at you after a good long while, hence why I left EMS for greener pastures. I have no desire to be an RN, but anyone who is willing to become one has my respect and admiration.

 

[mx_599]

i think the issue is that nurses (and paramedics for that matter) have such a stressful job, put up with a lot of crap and carry a lot of resposibility. They often don't get to take their breaks, lunch etc... lives are in their hands every moment. When you look at it like that, they aren't paid enough inmho. Other "2 yr" degree graduates don't have the responsibility of being immediately responisble for their "clients" lives. I think some nurses have found places and roles where they are compensated well, however for the stress and responsibility of the job, as a general rule, they should be paid more.

...and what kind of pay would satisfy you for nursing?

 

[rn29306]

...and what kind of pay would satisfy you for nursing?

I guess that your job of exercise physiology is also as demanding, exacting, or strenuous as digging someone out of a muddy ditch, loading 400+ lbs of obesity into an ambulance, coding him or her as a paramedic or been the only RN in a busy rural Emergency Room and have to do conscious sedation on a 3 year old when the moonlighting resident doesn't even know the specific reversal for narcotic vs benzos or titrating potent cardiovascular gtts in the ICUs on your own with no supervision as a RN?

Ever coded someone?
Ever had someone's life in your hands - literally with a couple more mls or the flick of a switch?

I THINK NOT..

Save the one liners and keep the violins - you know where you can stuff them.

 

[TucsonDDS]

I guess that your job of exercise physiology is also as demanding, exacting, or strenuous as digging someone out of a muddy ditch, loading 400+ lbs of obesity into an ambulance, coding him or her as a paramedic or been the only RN in a busy rural Emergency Room and have to do conscious sedation on a 3 year old when the moonlighting resident doesn't even know the specific reversal for narcotic vs benzos or titrating potent cardiovascular gtts in the ICUs on your own with no supervision as a RN?

Ever coded someone?
Ever had someone's life in your hands - literally with a couple more mls or the flick of a switch?

I THINK NOT..

Save the one liners and keep the violins - you know where you can stuff them.

I have been there and done that and I feel that I am paid accordingly. Sure I would love to make more but then I would be overpaid. Then again if I was working for 25/hour like the majority of nurses in this country with experience I would probably feel differently. But as it stands now I feel I am paid pretty fairly.

Only 10 more shifts now until I start D-School.\

Yippy

 

[mx_599]

digging someone out of a muddy ditch, loading 400+ lbs of obesity into an ambulance

Last time I checked, this was not in too many RN's job descriptions.
I suspected I would receive some hostility . You must be at one of the lower paying RN jobs. You should find another one that pays more.

I work very hard as an MA, thank you.



I see you avoided my question as well. What pay do you deem suitable for your position as an RN?

 

[TucsonDDS]

Last time I checked, this was not in too many RN's job descriptions.
I suspected I would receive some hostility . You must be at one of the lower paying RN jobs. You should find another one that pays more.

I work very hard as an MA, thank you.



I see you avoided my question as well. What pay do you deem suitable for your position as an RN?

Well if you replace "muddy ditch" with "**** filled crack" then it is definitely in our job descriptions. And 400 pounds is nothing by todays standards, what did they do go, go on a diet??

 

[mx_599]

Well if you replace "muddy ditch" with "**** filled crack" then it is definitely in our job descriptions. And 400 pounds is nothing by todays standards, what did they do go, go on a diet??

...enough to pull something

 

[mx_599]

Only 10 more shifts now until I start D-School.\
Yippy

Congrats
I can imagine your excitement! I couldn't stand it anymore and had to quit last week

 

[talaxandra]

I've been a nurse for sixteen years this month, so I obviously enjoy what I do. But you're right, there is a lot of dissatisfaction. This is often framed as a monetary issue, but I suspect that this is because our society equates recognition of worth in terms of financial recompense.

Nurses are the only members of the health care team to spend a substantial part of every day with patients. As a result, we often have information other health care workers don't - changes in their condition, fears and concerns, knowledge gaps...

It would be nice to have laypeople get that my job isn't just about bed pans, and that I don't lay eau-de-toilette soaked handkerchiefs on people's fevered brows. But I don't expect a patient appreciate that, while I'm feeding him I'm also monitoring his gag, if there's a swallow delay, calculating fluid intake, and comparing how much better he is at sitting upright. I don't expect a family member to understand that when I walk in the room and introduce myself I'm assessing her mother's breathing, colour, affect, the colour and volume of fluid in various drains, and that my moving objects around isn't just tidying up, it's also preparing space in the event of a code.

What I would like is to be accorded the same respect by other health care providers that I give to them. To speak with a member of allied health rather than being instructed about the basics of care I've been providing since before they thought about being a physio/OT/dietician. To page a resident and have my concerns taken seriously. To have an administration that listens to its staff instead of implementing change for no reason.

I know that doctors are often paged for idiotic reasons, and I get that nursing and medical concerns are often different. It's just that I get sick of being treated as though I'm an idiot when I haven't displayed idiotic behaviour.

The individual tasks of nursing can be done by almost anyone, but the totality of what we do can only be done by nurses. It would be nice to have that acknowledged on occasion.

 

[TucsonDDS]

I've been a nurse for sixteen years this month, so I obviously enjoy what I do. But you're right, there is a lot of dissatisfaction. This is often framed as a monetary issue, but I suspect that this is because our society equates recognition of worth in terms of financial recompense.

Nurses are the only members of the health care team to spend a substantial part of every day with patients. As a result, we often have information other health care workers don't - changes in their condition, fears and concerns, knowledge gaps...

It would be nice to have laypeople get that my job isn't just about bed pans, and that I don't lay eau-de-toilette soaked handkerchiefs on people's fevered brows. But I don't expect a patient appreciate that, while I'm feeding him I'm also monitoring his gag, if there's a swallow delay, calculating fluid intake, and comparing how much better he is at sitting upright. I don't expect a family member to understand that when I walk in the room and introduce myself I'm assessing her mother's breathing, colour, affect, the colour and volume of fluid in various drains, and that my moving objects around isn't just tidying up, it's also preparing space in the event of a code.

What I would like is to be accorded the same respect by other health care providers that I give to them. To speak with a member of allied health rather than being instructed about the basics of care I've been providing since before they thought about being a physio/OT/dietician. To page a resident and have my concerns taken seriously. To have an administration that listens to its staff instead of implementing change for no reason.

I know that doctors are often paged for idiotic reasons, and I get that nursing and medical concerns are often different. It's just that I get sick of being treated as though I'm an idiot when I haven't displayed idiotic behaviour.

The individual tasks of nursing can be done by almost anyone, but the totality of what we do can only be done by nurses. It would be nice to have that acknowledged on occasion.

Well, that was better than any of my posts. I agree 100%., that is one of the reasons why I am leaving the field. To get the respect that you deserve is a huge part of job satisfaction and while people think that I just clean crap for a living, many times it is really just helping someone's grandma or son to die with a little dignity.

 

[talaxandra]

Thank you

 

[ISU_Steve]

No, thank you. What nurses do is appreciated a very great deal by those of in the allied health professions who are comfortable enough to admit that we are no better than nurses (but at the same time, no worse). Thank you again.

 

[rn29306]

Last time I checked, this was not in too many RN's job descriptions.
I suspected I would receive some hostility . You must be at one of the lower paying RN jobs. You should find another one that pays more.

I work very hard as an MA, thank you.



I see you avoided my question as well. What pay do you deem suitable for your position as an RN?

The discussion was on various services provided that people see as undeserving. EMS and nursing were mentioned. If you bother to read further, you would see that my ditch description was about paramedics. But actually I have done this as a prehospital RN. I got out of nursing because all of the BS that comes with it, be it anywhere from ER to the units. CRNA school fits my bill both responsibility, job environment, and also pay.

Pay for nurses: Let's see. Society puts its interests in all the wrong places. Hey, scanky P Hilton is talking on the phone during the most boring sex scene I have ever seen and she makes millions. She makes millions just showing up at clubs. But does she have an impact on anyone's life in actual reality? Answer is no. Does she serve any useful purpose other than to get young boys (and probably young girls) into thinking what she does and how she looks is "hot". I made very well as an RN - close to 75K. Not bad money, but if it was your wife or husband I was titrating gtts on in the unit, then you might have a different opinion about my compensation for my responsibility. It is all about relevance. I used to work with RNs from Alabama that would drive 2 hours one way to work in Atlanta becauae a RN in AL could make just as much money running a cash register at a freakin gas station beside the road. Pay should reflect accountability, responsibility, and education - all of which are lacking in RN salary. Pay for nurses - for those that further educate themselves beyond what is taught in school and for those that bust their asses working - I say 75K or above, which many are. For those of you that want to hint around that RNs have inflated salaries or perhaps are not worth what they are paid, you are on the outside looking in and honestly have no damn clue whatsoever. The above post about constantly monitoring EVERYTHING and planning for the future unexpectancies without even showing it is very true. It looks easy until you are in the position and manage it effectively.

 

[mx_599]

Pay for nurses - I say 75K or above

Good luck with that

 

[rn29306]

Good luck with that

Already did it - in fact, first whole year out of school.

 

[TucsonDDS]

75K is a piece of cake. Already this year I have made 58K for 980 hours. I was shooting for 10k/month but I didn't feel like working any extra.

 

[ER-ER-Oh]

Here's my two cents: We in the health care field should not be looking for respect from anyone. I don't look for respect from my fellow doctors. I don't look for respect from nurses, or paramedics, or techs. I don't look for respect from my patients. I look only to myself for that satisfaction. Is it hard sometimes? Yes it is. Do I feel selfish and whiney sometimes? Yes I do. But at the end of the day I only ask myself if I've lived up to my own expectations. I wish only to be good at what I do and make my patients at least comfortable if not cured. I want them to feel I'm there to help them and I want them to trust me. Everything else, respect, or esteem, or praise is secondary and only icing on the cake.

Personally, I think all this anger is based upon jealousies, envy, and mostly out self esteem issues. I'm not saying I don't also have all of these, but I try really hard not to allow them to interfere with my ability to work as a team with ALL other health care professionals. As a doctor, and I'm only a resident now, I know most experienced nurses have much more practical knowledge than me. But I also know that I've been trained to have a broad base of knowledge that, with the help and support of those on the team, will eventually give me a greater depth of intuition and creativity when dealing with any crisis. I think this is one thing missed by most of us in all parts of the health care industry. This is not a slight to the nurses. I just think it's a reality. Not everything is protocol, sometimes it takes a deeper understanding of the big picture to make a decision that goes against common rationale. This is the doctor's domain I'm afraid. Of course there are always exceptions. And this doesn't mean nurses are not creative or intuitive. I just believe there's a big difference in how far it can go. And I know many, many doctors don't spend the time to be that far ahead of any nurse in this respect.

While I know many other health care providers spend many hours outside of work continually learning it is the good doctor (and I know not all are this willing) who spends countless hours reading journals, studying cases, reviewing charts, and critiquing his/her performance. This often seems lost on the other health care providers, and I think it's often hard for them to imagine or believe. I read 3 chapters of Tintanelli after work today, all of the recent ACEP news (including an article that calls into question the use of Natrecor in the treatment of CHF) and a couple of articles in Annals of Emergency Medicine. I have a research project I'm outlining also, not to mention paperwork up the butt. I come on here to relax (go figure!)

Anyway, I understand the plight of any nurse who has the unfortunate displeasure of working with an arrogant pig of a doctor. I believe it's the doctor's duty as the leader of the health care team to set the tone for how we all interact. I don't like to hear doctors bitching about nurses, it's in their own power to earn trust and to lead. I believe doctors who can't lead are pitiful and deserve the consternation they get from those around them. I work hard to let the nurses I work with understand that I need them, and that I'll be dutiful to their needs of me. I have great respect for them, and they don't need to be nice to me to have me treat them nicely. I don't resent them, I only aspire to have them believe I'm on their side, and hope they're on mine.

 

[rn29306]

Stop the press, med school finally kicked out a genuine here folks.

That was an excellent post. Thank you very much. God I wish you were in anesthesia instead of the ER.

 

[50960]

Great post...

 

[mx_599]

Already did it - in fact, first whole year out of school.

I meant more across the board. Good for you. Then why were you complaining about how much you make??? You should be grateful to make that much....especially out of school.

You are not really making much sense to me? I asked what you think nurses should make. Then you state that you made that amount right out of school. Yet in early posts you're saying nurses are not paid enough???

 

[zenman]

But I also know that I've been trained to have a broad base of knowledge that, with the help and support of those on the team, will eventually give me a greater depth of intuition and creativity when dealing with any crisis. I think this is one thing missed by most of us in all parts of the health care industry. This is not a slight to the nurses. I just think it's a reality. Not everything is protocol, sometimes it takes a deeper understanding of the big picture to make a decision that goes against common rationale. This is the doctor's domain I'm afraid. Of course there are always exceptions. And this doesn't mean nurses are not creative or intuitive. I just believe there's a big difference in how far it can go. And I know many, many doctors don't spend the time to be that far ahead of any nurse in this respect.

Great post but I have to call you on the above. Nurses are some of the most creative and intuitive people around and often know when something is going to happen to a patient even when all tests and other members of the team say different. And after studying Asian bodywork, my intuition skills increased even more.

 

[ER-ER-Oh]

Great post but I have to call you on the above. Nurses are some of the most creative and intuitive people around and often know when something is going to happen to a patient even when all tests and other members of the team say different. And after studying Asian bodywork, my intuition skills increased even more.

In my post I agreed with you, saying that nurses too are intuitive and creative. And I won't argue that point what so ever. What I was alluding to is that I think there has to be a greater intuition that comes with experience AND the addition of the broad scientific and clinical education that doctors recieve. I think it takes some time, experience wise, for a doctor to get to the point of the experienced nurse on many levels. But there is a point, I feel, that the advanced clinical training and years of learning in depth about the functioning of the human body take the physician to a different level. I think for a good docor this should begin to occur by the end of resident training. I see time and time again that this is not the case. And when it is not the case I believe it's because many young doctors are motivated more by money, prestige, etc. and don't take the time and energy to be immersed in medicine to the degree it takes to master the art. A nurse can also immerse themselves and become a master, I see it all the time. And these are the ones I seek out for learning and help. These are the ones that take pride in doing their job to the fullest. Same goes for techs, PA's, etc.

I was a sculptor before I became a doctor. Becoming a master of your chosen art involves learning the language of that art and then being able to manipulate that language in ways that express your own particular bent on the world and your experience within it. As a physician I believe this should take form in the whole of patient care. This too, unfortunately, is lost on most of these young kids coming through medical school. Instead of learning the humility that comes with seeing the intense complexity of the human physiology I see that most young doctors develop hubris at the mistaken idea that they have mastery over this physiology.

I would ask only that those of you in nursing take the approach I try to take with these kinds of doctors. I try to show them by example, and I try not to express my frustrations with their short comings and instead try to influence them to be more of what they should be. In doing this we all get, perhaps, a little more of what we need from them and maybe a little less of what we don't. I know too it must be frustrating to know you're a part of the education of some kid who's wet behind the ears, only to have them become a jerk. My hat's definitely off to all of you.

 

[talaxandra]

As a doctor, and I'm only a resident now, I know most experienced nurses have much more practical knowledge than me. But I also know that I've been trained to have a broad base of knowledge that, with the help and support of those on the team, will eventually give me a greater depth of intuition and creativity when dealing with any crisis.

I couldn't agree with you more. As I said to a graduate nurse, who was chagrined after a run in with a resident (as a result of the way she approached him), "I respect that he has more education than I do, and he respects that I have more experience than he does. As yet, you have neither knowledge or experience."

BTW, I assume, from your response to zenman, that by "greater depth of intuition and creativity" you mean greater than it would be otherwise, rather than greater than anyone else. Without doubt the greatest practitioners (nurisng, medical, paramedical, whatever) are those who can combine knowledge and experience, trust their (educated) instincts, and make creative decisions. Sounds like you're going to go far

 

[rn29306]

I meant more across the board. Good for you. Then why were you complaining about how much you make??? You should be grateful to make that much....especially out of school.

You are not really making much sense to me? I asked what you think nurses should make. Then you state that you made that amount right out of school. Yet in early posts you're saying nurses are not paid enough???

Your post numba 69 (no joking here) seemed to imply that the poster you were responding to, who in fact was standing up for nurses / EMS and the dedication these individuals have - is something really not that special. Until a person has done something of this nature, and I mean literally cared for someone totally dependent on you for 12 hours, no one should have an opinion about nurses or the nursing profession. People make jokes all the time about it - yes nurses are known to wipe a dirty posterior at times. But there is more to nursing than catering to someone. Someone unconscious is totally dependent on a ICU nurse for basically everything. It is easy to be lazy, change some bottles of Propofol for a shift and call it a day. It takes a special individual to dedicate themselves to someone he or she doesn't know and to intimately take care of them, anticipate complex pathophys that people don't think nurses know, balance gtts within reason, coordinate other services (pt, ot, xray, travel to diagnostic tests with vent patients), interact with their loved ones, and see that patient as not just another patient, but to see the whole picture. While it may not sound like it, but I am not a hand-holding, theory worshipping nurse. I just know (or used to know it before going to grad school) my role and I was good at it. Too bad management and politics are raping the nursing profession.
Your post number 69 came across as belittling nursing in general (esp the violins) and I'm suprised not more people had something to say about it.
One thing I cannot stand, which by the way runs rampant here, is to belittle, mock, and make fun of the nursing profession. If some of these med students had their mother / father in the ED or ICUs and had a nurse that was on top of his or her game, I promise you their arrogant attitudes would be different. Yes, I know there are catty nurses and they used to drive me crazy all the time. Many things are wrong with nursing, but at the core is a desire to better someone else and that is almost Zen-like. It is something to be proud of and I can't and won't stand for others to mock the profession. If I jumped the gun here, would be a little suprised, but hey, if that's the case then I aplologize for the brash reply.

The salary part was not even the basis of our conversation anyway.

 

[mx_599]

Your post numba 69 (no joking here) seemed to imply that the poster you were responding to, who in fact was standing up for nurses / EMS and the dedication these individuals have - is something really not that special. Until a person has done something of this nature, and I mean literally cared for someone totally dependent on you for 12 hours, no one should have an opinion about nurses or the nursing profession. People make jokes all the time about it - yes nurses are known to wipe a dirty posterior at times. But there is more to nursing than catering to someone. Someone unconscious is totally dependent on a ICU nurse for basically everything. It is easy to be lazy, change some bottles of Propofol for a shift and call it a day. It takes a special individual to dedicate themselves to someone he or she doesn't know and to intimately take care of them, anticipate complex pathophys that people don't think nurses know, balance gtts within reason, coordinate other services (pt, ot, xray, travel to diagnostic tests with vent patients), interact with their loved ones, and see that patient as not just another patient, but to see the whole picture. While it may not sound like it, but I am not a hand-holding, theory worshipping nurse. I just know (or used to know it before going to grad school) my role and I was good at it. Too bad management and politics are raping the nursing profession.
Your post number 69 came across as belittling nursing in general (esp the violins) and I'm suprised not more people had something to say about it.
One thing I cannot stand, which by the way runs rampant here, is to belittle, mock, and make fun of the nursing profession. If some of these med students had their mother / father in the ED or ICUs and had a nurse that was on top of his or her game, I promise you their arrogant attitudes would be different. Yes, I know there are catty nurses and they used to drive me crazy all the time. Many things are wrong with nursing, but at the core is a desire to better someone else and that is almost Zen-like. It is something to be proud of and I can't and won't stand for others to mock the profession. If I jumped the gun here, would be a little suprised, but hey, if that's the case then I aplologize for the brash reply.

What?

The salary part was not even the basis of our conversation anyway.

Actually, that was the basis of my conversation.

 

[smkoepke]

What?


Actually, that was the basis of my conversation.

Why does it seem like you are bitter or upset over the money that nurses make? Your posts make it sound like you are very begrudging of their salaries. Why shouldn't people who literally have lives in their hands and the responsibility of maintaining positvie patient outcomes, be paid more in line with their responsibility? To say that nurses and EMS need to be paid more doesn't take away from anyone else's importance. The violins and sarcastic attitude aren't necessary. Some nurses are compensated well as is evidenced by a few who have divulged their salaries. The fact still remains that many others are not compensated well. In the midst of a dire nursing shortage that is projected to worsen in the next decade, an increase in compensation is one of the things that needs to occur to attract new nurses, retain experienced nurses and draw nurses who are not currently working in nursing back into the field.

 

[rn29306]

What?

You are missing the big picture here. Appreciate the conversation, but I'm done with this.

 

[CrazyPremed]

I've been a nurse for sixteen years this month, so I obviously enjoy what I do. But you're right, there is a lot of dissatisfaction. This is often framed as a monetary issue, but I suspect that this is because our society equates recognition of worth in terms of financial recompense.

Nurses are the only members of the health care team to spend a substantial part of every day with patients. As a result, we often have information other health care workers don't - changes in their condition, fears and concerns, knowledge gaps...

It would be nice to have laypeople get that my job isn't just about bed pans, and that I don't lay eau-de-toilette soaked handkerchiefs on people's fevered brows. But I don't expect a patient appreciate that, while I'm feeding him I'm also monitoring his gag, if there's a swallow delay, calculating fluid intake, and comparing how much better he is at sitting upright. I don't expect a family member to understand that when I walk in the room and introduce myself I'm assessing her mother's breathing, colour, affect, the colour and volume of fluid in various drains, and that my moving objects around isn't just tidying up, it's also preparing space in the event of a code.

What I would like is to be accorded the same respect by other health care providers that I give to them. To speak with a member of allied health rather than being instructed about the basics of care I've been providing since before they thought about being a physio/OT/dietician. To page a resident and have my concerns taken seriously. To have an administration that listens to its staff instead of implementing change for no reason.

I know that doctors are often paged for idiotic reasons, and I get that nursing and medical concerns are often different. It's just that I get sick of being treated as though I'm an idiot when I haven't displayed idiotic behaviour.

The individual tasks of nursing can be done by almost anyone, but the totality of what we do can only be done by nurses. It would be nice to have that acknowledged on occasion.

Well put!

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

While I agree with many of the above posters that the nursing profession is vital, important, and difficult at times, I also agree with the poster who is asking why there is so much complaint about income. I'm sorry, but 50-75K+ for 40 hours of work with a bachelor's degree or 2 year degree is pretty damn good. That is about as much as you can expect with this kind of degree in most professions. There are FPs making 80K for similar hours in some locales after 8 years of school and 3 years of residency.

Again, I agree with the respect issue. I just don't see why and how you would feel underpaid with this kind of income.

 

[mx_599]

While I agree with many of the above posters that the nursing profession is vital, important, and difficult at times, I also agree with the poster who is asking why there is so much complaint about income. I'm sorry, but 50-75K+ for 40 hours of work with a bachelor's degree or 2 year degree is pretty damn good. That is about as much as you can expect with this kind of degree in most professions. There are FPs making 80K for similar hours in some locales after 8 years of school and 3 years of residency.

Again, I agree with the respect issue. I just don't see why and how you would feel underpaid with this kind of income.

Thank you....that's all I was saying. You cannot just give all RN's 100 grand! Places would be going out of business.

 

[Noeljan]

hey guys
where I am from everyone I know who stayed in the area made about 16-23 dollars an hour max. I know a few of my friends who went back home to NYC made a bunch more, but the cost of living is higher there.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Thank you....that's all I was saying. You cannot just give all RN's 100 grand! Places would be going out of business.

It's an insurance and drug companies world. We are all just living in it.

 

[mx_599]

It's an insurance and drug companies world. We are all just living in it.

Probably true.

I just think some of the people here are being way unrealistic. They are not looking at the big picture. I think they forget what typical salaries are for many people who work hard. Their arguement of "dealing with human lives" just doesn't cut it for me.

Policeman do not make that much money.

Firemen do not make that much money. The FIREMEN who were killed in 911 probably didn't make as much money as RN's.

TEACHERS! If anyone deserves an increase in pay, it is them.!! They are trying to educate our future for peanuts. As it stands now, I think they deserve a far bigger raise than any RN. I respect TEACHERS very much.

Certain individuals on here are calling me bitter...no, I guess I am just raining on some unrealistic Nurses' parade. They don't like the truth and are taking it out on me. Typical.