Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences????

[Dr. Don]

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so today I got a letter from this school telling me that my MCAT SCORES are competitive for their medical school . For those of you who don't know my scores, after 3 MCATs my average is a 24 (with a 6-7 verbal), with a 3.3 undergrad science GPA, and a 3.8 post-bac GPA. So anyways, I was surprised to hear that my MCATs ARE COMPETITIVE??!!! I never thought that, but I also don't know what this school's averages are? Did anybody else get this letter? Does someone know what their averages are? Is someone applying to the program?

I don't know if I should, 7 year commitment post-graduate training to the military is just something that I would not want to do and I'm not really pro-military either, although the free tuition is tempting, but honestly, I think I'll rather go DO than military MD.

Any thoughts?

 

[exmike]

thats odd, their avg mcat is around a 29 i believe.

 

[Heal&Teach]

Hey Dr. Don,

I got the same letter (i'e., undercover recruitment attempt) a few weeks back, and I thought about applying b/c it's free. Hell, everything about it is free, and you get paid to go to medical school! As fabulous as it sounded, I couldn't do it. As with any program where you're owed time in exchange for erasure of debt, it's like signing a deal with the devil. I mean, 7 years, and this is after you complete your residency. While I loved my country and appreciate everything that our men and women do out there, there's this sinking feeling in the back of my mind that I'm going to be involved in the war on terrorism 8 years from now...

There's also a thread on this sort of thing with regard to a loan repayment program. Also, not sure what they're numbers are like (nevermind, exmike answered that ? already). That 29 is also an averaged score, and getting a letter and applying doesn't automatically mean interview and acceptance.

 

[rotatores]

Dr. Don,

Maybe they added two of your total MCAT's together. When I applied two years ago their average MCAT was 30 and I'm assuming its about the same

I don't know if I should, 7 year commitment post-graduate training to the military is just something that I would not want to do and I'm not really pro-military either, although the free tuition is tempting, but honestly, I think I'll rather go DO than military MD.

I wouldn't lose much sleep over it, your chances of even getting an interview are slim to none.

 

[Swiper]

Originally posted by Dr. Don
so today I got a letter from this school telling me that my MCAT SCORES are competitive for their medical school . For those of you who don't know my scores, after 3 MCATs my average is a 24 (with a 6-7 verbal), with a 3.3 undergrad science GPA, and a 3.8 post-bac GPA. So anyways, I was surprised to hear that my MCATs ARE COMPETITIVE??!!! I never thought that, but I also don't know what this school's averages are? Did anybody else get this letter? Does someone know what their averages are? Is someone applying to the program?

I don't know if I should, 7 year commitment post-graduate training to the military is just something that I would not want to do and I'm not really pro-military either, although the free tuition is tempting, but honestly, I think I'll rather go DO than military MD.

Any thoughts?

The average is 29 or 30, which means there might be some 25's and some 35's in the entering class. But, I think you answered the question yourself about applying - free tuition is always tempting, but not worth it unless you are absolutely positive that a military commitment and military medicine are for you.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by rotatores

I wouldn't lose much sleep over it, your chances of even getting an interview are slim to none.

you dont know that.

you should apply, its free, dont listen to this curmudgeon

 

[haujun]

Dr. Don,

USUHS has a special mission to recruit future military doctors and outstanding officers who can live up to army values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. (*Rotatores--please live up to respect, no hard feeling ok?!)

Thus MCAT score is only part of admission process. The most important part of getting into USUHS requires you to show the admission committee that you can succeed as a military doctor and officer. It clearly isn't for everyone...Good Luck.

 

[rotatores]

USUHS has a special mission to recruit future military doctors and outstanding officers who can live up to army values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage

I wasn't aware that USUHS was an ARMY medical school (i could have sworn it was triservice)...shoot...I've been wearing the wrong uniform all this time

haujun...i've read a few of your own posts...it is you who needs to learn respect.

 

[Dr. Don]

thanks for the responses peeps. That's really good info. Rotatores...well congrats on your way to becoming a military doctor, but it's just not for me....and as far as your comment about not loosing any sleep over it because my chances of getting an interview/acceptance are slim to none..well I'M NOT, and even if I was to apply, it would be one of my last choices, like I said, I'll rather go DO than military MD. Either way, good luck to you all. Take care.

 

[Alli Cat]

I know exactly how you feel, Dr. Don. I'm going to USUHS next year and for me, going to a DO school would be such a compromise that it woudn't be worth the expense and the hard work. I understand now that what may be a second choice for some is actually a first choice for others. USUHS was my first choice, followed by HPSP at a civilian school. Likewise, you preferred a DO school, which was my last resort, over USUHS, which was my first choice. I think there's a common sentiment on these boards that DO schools and military scholarships are desperate measures, and that's too bad.

Anyone who wants to know why USUHS was my first choice is free to PM me. Part of it is I just have to go and see who this rotatores guy is.

~Alli

 

[haujun]

YES, if you want to be sensitive to detail-- USUHS train for ARMY, NAVY, AIRFORCE, PUBLIC HEALTH-- that's why there are four stars displayed on your badge you are wearing everyday, Rotatores...I know it must be real difficult for you, but I hope you can share your finite knowledge without anymore sarcasm, rudeness, condescending attitude etc.. and displayed some military values-- Besides you are an "ACTIVE" duty officer now; you can get into real big trouble you know--Article XX (UCMJ)----conducting unbecoming officer??--or should say conduct becoming troll, curmudgeon etc...

 

[lotanna]

Originally posted by Dr. Don
so today I got a letter from this school telling me that my MCAT SCORES are competitive for their medical school . For those of you who don't know my scores, after 3 MCATs my average is a 24 (with a 6-7 verbal), with a 3.3 undergrad science GPA, and a 3.8 post-bac GPA. So anyways, I was surprised to hear that my MCATs ARE COMPETITIVE??!!! I never thought that, but I also don't know what this school's averages are? Did anybody else get this letter? Does someone know what their averages are? Is someone applying to the program?

I don't know if I should, 7 year commitment post-graduate training to the military is just something that I would not want to do and I'm not really pro-military either, although the free tuition is tempting, but honestly, I think I'll rather go DO than military MD.

Any thoughts?

I got the same thing, my MCAT is on the low end, and even though i already have an acceptance, I had to laugh to think they sent it.

 

[Caffeinated]

Great thread, as long as we can keep our tempers in check 🙂 ! To be honest, I had no idea USUHS sent out this type of recruitment info. Who knows why med schools do some of the things they do? I speculate that a lot of it has to do with numbers--how many primary and secondary apps were received, # interviews, offer to acceptance ratios, etc. Last year I got a recruitment letter from a med school in St. Louis. I remember reading a few posts about people who received recruitment brochures from schools that turned around and rejected them in a week. Wright State University wanted to interview me without a secondary application, and wouldn't let me withdraw my AMCAS application from them until I had an acceptance from another school.

As for the military medicine issue, I agree with what has been said. You can't be lukewarm on the idea of being a military doc. Don't get me wrong, I love having no tuition bills and being paid to go to school. But you can't let this be the sole motivating factor. It's cliche but true, money can't buy happiness.

I firmly believe that not everyone is cut out for military service, and I do not think any less of anyone who is willing to admit this about themself. However, I also think that there are some who would do well in military service and enjoy it, but don't know it. Recruitment letters, HPSP scholarships, and USUHS help to motivate people to consider this is as a career. Ideally, these motivators will help people who would do well in this capacity discover this career option. That being said, I will readily admit that in my teens and early 20s, I could have been voted "Least likely to succeed in a military career, let alone even consider joining the military secondary to attitude and long hair" (if such a category existed). Funny what can happen in 10 years.

As to the poster that wondered if he or she would be involved in the war on terrorism, the answer is "yes". The military's job is to defend, deter, protect, fight, etc. and the list goes on. And the war on terrorism probably won't be ending any time soon. However, keep in mind that as a military physician, your value to the armed forces is in maintaining health of the force--keeping them fit and fixing them when they are sick or hurt. Your commander is not going to say "That's enough healing doc, now grab a rifle and lead that platoon up the hill!" Sure, you may be asked (er, ordered) to practice medicine in crappy places where things might be blowing up. But your value to the force is as a doc.

I hope this helps to clear up the issue a little bit. From my own experience thus far, I am very happy to be at USUHS, for lots of reasons beyond the obvious one (money). I am happy to expand on this in the forum or on PM.

Caff

PS- Alli Cat, for some reason I thought you were going to be in my class. Did something happen or were you always applying for class of 2008?

 

[Swiper]

Originally posted by Caffeinated
Great thread, as long as we can keep our tempers in check 🙂 !

Thanks Caff - well said. I'm still torn in my decision between military vs. civilian medicine, and so it's definitely good to see there are officers like you at USUHS. I was getting a little worried...

 

[Spacekat]

Originally posted by Caffeinated
Your commander is not going to say "That's enough healing doc, now grab a rifle and lead that platoon up the hill!"

Caff, you're right that squad tactics or the equivalent thereof would never become a physician's primary responsibility, but the above scenario is not beyond the bounds of reason. Anyone who would NOT be willing to charge that hill or jump into command of that 5 inch gun should not pursue the military option - you will be an officer first, a healer second.

The military is an all-consuming way of life, folks. They don't just expect you to show up to work every day (and night), do your job, and go home. You are expected to spend your free time with your brother/sister officers. You are expected to dress like them, talk like them, and live like them, even in the 'privacy' of your own home. If that doesn't sound like a way of life you can be comfortable with, you want to steer clear of this option. If that sounds ok to you, and if you feel a strong call to duty, then by all means, step up.

 

[entpa]

SpaceKat's comments would be accurate in the 50's/60's. Having been in the military for 25 yrs now as an NCO and for the last 10 yrs as a medical officer (PA), the days of everyone "must fit the same mold" are gone. We are a very diverse group. The idea that everyone acts, talks alike is definitely inaccurate. USUHS is a great oppurtunity for a military and medical career. But, you better ask every question you can think of about what you're getting into. I've found that no one is going to volunteer anything negative...And finally, if you sign a contract, realize "if it's not in writing it never happened".

 

[Spacekat]

Originally posted by entpa
the days of everyone "must fit the same mold" are gone.

I'm very glad that you've had a better experience than I have, entpa. I've been in the service for 10 years now, and the pressures I've felt have been, if anything, worse than I stated. For example, where I'm stationed right now we have a dress code in civilian clothing to which we are supposed to adhere even in our own homes.
Here's hoping that you who will be attending USUHS will have entpa's experience rather than mine!
I definitely second his advice on questions and contracts, too.

 

[Alli Cat]

Originally posted by Caffeinated

PS- Alli Cat, for some reason I thought you were going to be in my class. Did something happen or were you always applying for class of 2008?

Well... 🙂 my medical waiver was denied the first time around. But once I promised the military I'd sign up both of my firstborn children for lifetime service the waiver authority decided to let me slip by!! Unfortunately all this happened after COT had already started and I didn't want to get a half-assed intro to being an officer, so I decided to wait a year. Turns out it was a sweet decidion b/c I'm having lotsa fun in San Francisco. I'll see you in August!

 

[rgporter]

It is suprisingly difficult to get an interview as USUHS. It took me almost as long to get an interview there as the one I barely got at WashU., and UMich. was several degrees faster. They definately look for more than just numbers.
Can anyone tell me about the EPSQ software? I filled out the info and printed it. When I made the 3.5" floppy it asks for a password. Is it the same password from the beggining, i.e. the last four digits of SS#? If so then why is the example they give in the instructions for the floppy not a four digit number?
Do I need anything besides the floppy, the signed wavers, the EPSQ printout, the fingerprint cards, and an official birth certificate?
I am paranoid that I am forgetting something. Thanks for the help.

 

[G0S2]

The password is the same as the last 4 of the SSN.

Sounds like you have everything. Bring the service branch choice ranking list as well. You will have time to bring the materials to security in between interviews. Also, make sure you sit down with the higher-ups in between interviews. Their offices will be open and there will most likely be others in there with you. Just relax and bring up any other questions you may have or just simply listen to the others.

Happy New Year and relax, USUHS is a great interview.

 

[Caffeinated]

Great post, kat. I agree with the spirit of what you say, but I will take issue with some of the specifics. You are absolutely correct in the sense that the military officer must be committed to his or her duty and the mission. However, I am going to take issue with the "officer first, healer second" comment. I have heard this statement several times and in multiple forms. The most common scenarios in which is this phrase is used are:

1. When non-medical people are trying to get medical officers to take their military training seriously, and

2. When a medical officer complains or tries to get out of a deployment.

I take issue with this statement in that it oversimplifies what it means to be a medical officer. The medical officer is both military officer and physicians -- a duality that describes the medical officer's role. To say that one is more important than the other trivializes both. The fundamental definition of an officer is the union of both professional and military knowledge and skill sets into one leader. Officers come in all flavors--infantry, armor, intel, and medical to name only a few. Although the professional skill sets of officers may vary, the common denominator is the military aspect of officer development and that officer's committment to mission effectiveness. My intention is not to undermine the importance of the officer component of being a military physician. Rather, it is to show that the "officer first, healer second" mentality does a great disservice to officers of all variety. "Officer first" suggests that a medical officer is equivalent to an infantry officer, who also happens to have a medical degree. This sentiment is insulting to the infantry officer and trivializes the role that the physician plays in unit effectiveness. Most of my mentors and role models wince when they hear this phrase. The medical officers that I know who have had successful careers will agree that the dual roles of the medical officer are closely intertwined. I once heard a military doc respond to that statement by revising it "Soldier first, doctor always." Again, another oversimplification, but I believe it is more accurate in attempting to define the medical officer.

I realize that this argument is almost entirely semantics. But on an internet forum, this is all I have. I am not trying to be a prick; just want to contribute to the discussion and help folks make the choice that is right for them. Great thread, folks.

Originally posted by Spacekat
Caff, you're right that squad tactics or the equivalent thereof would never become a physician's primary responsibility, but the above scenario is not beyond the bounds of reason. Anyone who would NOT be willing to charge that hill or jump into command of that 5 inch gun should not pursue the military option - you will be an officer first, a healer second.

The military is an all-consuming way of life, folks. They don't just expect you to show up to work every day (and night), do your job, and go home. You are expected to spend your free time with your brother/sister officers. You are expected to dress like them, talk like them, and live like them, even in the 'privacy' of your own home. If that doesn't sound like a way of life you can be comfortable with, you want to steer clear of this option. If that sounds ok to you, and if you feel a strong call to duty, then by all means, step up.

 

[Spacekat]

Well put Caff! I love that you're going into this with that attitude.

I should have been more clear about my perspective on this one - I was addressing what I have observed rather than what I think should be true. I've lived, served, and socialized with military physicians for several years. Most of them were deeply shocked when they realized how much time they would have to spend on non-medical work alongside their weapons-specialized counterparts (like me).

When I say "officer first, healer second" I'm talking about the actual operational situations and deployments I've been involved in, wherein medical officers are viewed by their superiors as 1) a warm body who can do jobs that require thinking and 2) someone with a special skillset - very much in that order.

My hope by addressing that here is just to make sure folks understand what they will be getting themselves into if they go this route. Military contracts are not just a way to pay for education - they are a commitment to go overseas and make war, which is a much more weighty promise than most people consider before they actually have to pay the piper.

In the current international situation, I think I can say with absolute certainty that anyone signing up now will not spend their 7 years in a well-appointed stateside clinic with a latte machine and daily delivery from the sandwich shop down the block. Four years from now is not the time to realize that.