United health care ceo shot dead

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“Defining Structural Violence​

The term “structural violence” is one way of describing social arrangements that put individuals and populations in harm's way (see Box 1) [16]. The arrangements are structural because they are embedded in the political and economic organization of our social world; they are violent because they cause injury to people (typically, not those responsible for perpetuating such inequalities). With few exceptions, clinicians are not trained to understand such social forces, nor are we trained to alter them. Yet it has long been clear that many medical and public health interventions will fail if we are unable to understand the social determinants of disease [17,18].

Box 1. What Is Structural Violence?​

Structural violence, a term coined by Johan Galtung and by liberation theologians during the 1960s, describes social structures—economic, political, legal, religious, and cultural—that stop individuals, groups, and societies from reaching their full potential [57]. In its general usage, the word violence often conveys a physical image; however, according to Galtung, it is the “avoidable impairment of fundamental human needs or…the impairment of human life, which lowers the actual degree to which someone is able to meet their needs below that which would otherwise be possible” [58]. Structural violence is often embedded in longstanding “ubiquitous social structures, normalized by stable institutions and regular experience” [59]. Because they seem so ordinary in our ways of understanding the world, they appear almost invisible. Disparate access to resources, political power, education, health care, and legal standing are just a few examples. The idea of structural violence is linked very closely to social injustice and the social machinery of oppression [16].”
Communist drivel.
 
Do you think the CEO was like Al Capone and an insurance company is like the mob? Do you understand the difference between a law suit and a crime?
Obviously not, this guy was eleventy billion times worse than Capone.

I'll repeat what others have said multiple times:

Murder is not OK.
This specific action was not OK.
But, I understand.
Many, many people are pissed off at the health insurance industry.
United, by several metrics, is the worst of the bunch.

You have a multi-millionare who helmed a hated company who was murdered. I get why huge numbers of people aren't all that sad about it.
 
Other Health insurance CEOs probably wearing Kevlar now under their $10,000 designer suits and doubled their security budget

The irony here is that the outcome of all this will be an increase in insurance premiums for everyone. You think those health insurance CEOs will pay for their own security?
 
Ill amend the analogy: It’s a profession they don’t like (CEO) in an industry they don’t like (health insurance). I understand that symbolic killings happen. It’s just not that common in the US and doesn’t seem to garner much support until now.

Ironically, to better understand the killer’s motivations I think spending more time online in left wing echo chambers, where he was likely radicalized, would be more informative than “getting out more”.

It may also be worth remembering that once upon a time in our nation's history, notably during the Gilded Age, through the industrial revolution, through the Great Depression, and even through the 1950s, the killing of business leaders wasn't exactly uncommon.

There were countless violent conflicts between workers and railroads, coal mines, steel mills. All rooted in growing wealth inequality, exploitation, working conditions.

Labor wars, the Wall Street Bombing, company towns. You don't have to try too hard to see parallels between wildly profitable health insurance companies denying claims made by sick people, and a coal miner with black lung getting evicted from his company home in the company town when he got sick or injured and couldn't work any more.

You can act like this guy getting shot is some kind of unprecedented and bewildering event, but the most surprising thing about it is that there's been so little violence of this kind since the 60s. Which coincidentally was when SCOTUS finally got around to upholding workers' right to strike.

The growing and accelerating wealth inequality in the USA has been a topic of discussion for a couple decades now. People chuckle uncomfortably about the French Revolution and slogans like "eat the rich" ... and you're surprised someone took a bite?

This schadenfreude-rich outpouring of snark and rage (from the left AND the right - gimme a break with that ridiculous "left wing echo chamber" bull****) didn't come out of nowhere. It's been simmering for a very long time.



TEN YEARS AGO. Watch it. Or don't watch it ... there's a transcript on the right. Takes a couple minutes to read. I'm going to bet that particular billionaire isn't the least bit bewildered about how the public reacted to the UH CEO getting shot.
 
On a lighter note, those of you who are bewildered by the public's response to this killing sort of reminds me of how Bill Burr described the faux bewilderment of some sportscasters when someone asked why female athletes earned less money than male athletes ...



"... and all of these men had to sit there and act like they didn't know what the answer was. They had to sit there like, dumbfounded, like oh, uh, I dunno, uh, why is that?"

🙂
 
I cannot make that leap myself. I can put career criminals and cartel/mafia members in a similar category. Maybe you wouldn't have sympathy for them if they were shot/killed? But I'm not at all convinced that a CEO, an employee of a legal enterprise, is like a cartel member or criminal. Kind of a dumb take, honestly.

Was it justifiable: no
Should Mangione be held accountable: yes
Did Brian Thompson knowingly commit acts that harmed or killed people to make money: yes (ask any oncologist)
Did he deserve to be shot for above: no
Can the legal system carry out justice: hopefully, over years
Do I feel compassion for Thompson, sympathy: no

I had a cancer surgeon tell me they had 3-4 people die a year because of delays in care because of insurance, I've had a family member consider not taking chemo because of the cost to her family (we all pitched in, she's the only surviving member in her group, got to see one daughter graduate high school another get married and have a kid, got denied insurance coverage because of life expectancy, paid into it her whole life, never used it until diagnosed).

Killing Brian Thompson will solve nothing, it's as morally wrong as what Thompson did to 1000s of people through his actions. The act of sympathy, of feeling pity/suffering for the results of Mangione's action is not something I feel. If the bankers in the 2008 financial crisis that ruined many teachers/janitors/hardworking people's retirement had gone to jail (only 1 did) would you shed a tear. What if a retiree who was bankrupt shot a 10M a year banker?

You don't kill a man for stealing a horse, maybe the next time a 10M a year executive in his penthouse has to make a decision about screwing over every living human being under his insurance plan he'll pause.
 
No he actually is a communist. Seems like he likes Maoism most of all


You can ignore it if you like but this is a useful framework in which to think about the widespread reaction to the murder of Brian Thompson.

Why were so many people gleeful when he was killed? He represented the wealthy and powerful stepping on the necks of the masses. That is top down violence which is perfectly legal and normalized in our society. The folks who pay insurance premiums for decades and then have their claims denied and delayed have no recourse or cannot afford recourse. United healthcare had >$20 billion net profit last year. That is after paying Brian Thompson over $10mil. Why wasn’t that $20+ billion spent to provide healthcare for their enrollees? Does United Healthcare exist to spread risk among enrollees and pay for healthcare when their enrollees need it or does it exist to maximize return on investment to shareholders?

I personally have a very good claims experience with United healthcare. Whenever I tell the story people are pretty surprised. Why is my story an aberration and not the norm?
 
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Was it justifiable: no
Should Mangione be held accountable: yes
Did Brian Thompson knowingly commit acts that harmed or killed people to make money: yes (ask any oncologist)
Did he deserve to be shot for above: no
Can the legal system carry out justice: hopefully, over years
Do I feel compassion for Thompson, sympathy: no

I had a cancer surgeon tell me they had 3-4 people die a year because of delays in care because of insurance, I've had a family member consider not taking chemo because of the cost to her family (we all pitched in, she's the only surviving member in her group, got to see one daughter graduate high school another get married and have a kid, got denied insurance coverage because of life expectancy, paid into it her whole life, never used it until diagnosed).

Killing Brian Thompson will solve nothing, it's as morally wrong as what Thompson did to 1000s of people through his actions. The act of sympathy, of feeling pity/suffering for the results of Mangione's action is not something I feel. If the bankers in the 2008 financial crisis that ruined many teachers/janitors/hardworking people's retirement had gone to jail (only 1 did) would you shed a tear. What if a retiree who was bankrupt shot a 10M a year banker?

You don't kill a man for stealing a horse, maybe the next time a 10M a year executive in his penthouse has to make a decision about screwing over every living human being under his insurance plan he'll pause.
To be fair. Thompson of united healthcare is not a Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos or Elon musk ceo

He doesn’t make decisions unilaterally. It’s done by so many levels of committees at United healthcare. I don’t think he had as much power as people thinks.
It’s not like Jeff bezos unilaterally telling the Washington post editors not to endorse any candidate this year for president.


Brian Thompson doesn’t unilaterally say to deny most claims. That’s on the committee of United healthcare.

If Luigi was super crazy, he and his friends would have taken out the United healthcare board of directors. That would have sent chills to entire Wall Street. That’s your real money ball. But Luigi acted alone and corporate America will sweep this incident under the rug and life will move on.
Just like 2008 financials melt down. Swept under the rug. The 3 year bonus clawbacks of Wall Street bill died in congress shortly after. No one of any significant got convicted in the financial downfall

Same with the healthcare industry after this event. It will be business as usual for them
 
To be fair. Thompson of united healthcare is not a Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos or Elon musk ceo

He doesn’t make decisions unilaterally. It’s done by so many levels of committees at United healthcare. I don’t think he had as much power as people thinks.
It’s not like Jeff bezos unilaterally telling the Washington post editors not to endorse any candidate this year for president.


Brian Thompson doesn’t unilaterally say to deny most claims. That’s on the committee of United healthcare.

If Luigi was super crazy, he and his friends would have taken out the United healthcare board of directors. That would have sent chills to entire Wall Street. That’s your real money ball. But Luigi acted alone and corporate America will sweep this incident under the rug and life will move on.
Just like 2008 financials melt down. Swept under the rug. The 3 year bonus clawbacks of Wall Street bill died in congress shortly after. No one of any significant got convicted in the financial downfall

Same with the healthcare industry after this event. It will be business as usual for them
He's definitely not Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos or he would've created an efficient company that didn't rely on screwing over people. To say he was ignorant of what was going on has no basis, he's the CEO, you don't get there by not having your eye on the ball and making decisions.
 
To be fair. Thompson of united healthcare is not a Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos or Elon musk ceo

He doesn’t make decisions unilaterally. It’s done by so many levels of committees at United healthcare. I don’t think he had as much power as people thinks.
It’s not like Jeff bezos unilaterally telling the Washington post editors not to endorse any candidate this year for president.


Brian Thompson doesn’t unilaterally say to deny most claims. That’s on the committee of United healthcare.

If Luigi was super crazy, he and his friends would have taken out the United healthcare board of directors. That would have sent chills to entire Wall Street. That’s your real money ball. But Luigi acted alone and corporate America will sweep this incident under the rug and life will move on.
Just like 2008 financials melt down. Swept under the rug. The 3 year bonus clawbacks of Wall Street bill died in congress shortly after. No one of any significant got convicted in the financial downfall

Same with the healthcare industry after this event. It will be business as usual for them


So funny.


 
It may also be worth remembering that once upon a time in our nation's history, notably during the Gilded Age, through the industrial revolution, through the Great Depression, and even through the 1950s, the killing of business leaders wasn't exactly uncommon.

There were countless violent conflicts between workers and railroads, coal mines, steel mills. All rooted in growing wealth inequality, exploitation, working conditions.

Labor wars, the Wall Street Bombing, company towns. You don't have to try too hard to see parallels between wildly profitable health insurance companies denying claims made by sick people, and a coal miner with black lung getting evicted from his company home in the company town when he got sick or injured and couldn't work any more.

You can act like this guy getting shot is some kind of unprecedented and bewildering event, but the most surprising thing about it is that there's been so little violence of this kind since the 60s. Which coincidentally was when SCOTUS finally got around to upholding workers' right to strike.

The growing and accelerating wealth inequality in the USA has been a topic of discussion for a couple decades now. People chuckle uncomfortably about the French Revolution and slogans like "eat the rich" ... and you're surprised someone took a bite?

This schadenfreude-rich outpouring of snark and rage (from the left AND the right - gimme a break with that ridiculous "left wing echo chamber" bull****) didn't come out of nowhere. It's been simmering for a very long time.



TEN YEARS AGO. Watch it. Or don't watch it ... there's a transcript on the right. Takes a couple minutes to read. I'm going to bet that particular billionaire isn't the least bit bewildered about how the public reacted to the UH CEO getting shot.


This is an extraordinarily rare occurrence—so rare, in fact, that it’s almost unheard of in modern society. The events being referenced date back more than 50 years, which underscores just how uncommon they are. Similarly, support for the idea of targeted assassinations of private citizens in our country is virtually nonexistent. It’s not so much bewildering as it is surprising to see so many people readily embrace the simplistic framing of a ‘villainous CEO’ who ‘murders’ and is equated with crime bosses or cartels. This narrative feels more like hyperbole than a reflection of reality.
 
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You can ignore it if you like but this is a useful framework in which to think about the widespread reaction to the murder of Brian Thompson.

Why were so many people gleeful when he was killed? He represented the wealthy and powerful stepping on the necks of the masses. That is top down violence which is perfectly legal and normalized in our society. The folks who pay insurance premiums for decades and then have their claims denied and delayed have no recourse or cannot afford recourse. United healthcare had >$20 billion net profit last year. That is after paying Brian Thompson over $10mil. Why wasn’t that $20+ billion spent to provide healthcare for their enrollees? Does United Healthcare exist to spread risk among enrollees and pay for healthcare when their enrollees need it or does it exist to return maximum return on investment to shareholders?

I personally have a very good claims experience with United healthcare. Whenever I tell the story people are pretty surprised. Why is my story an aberration and not the norm?
I suppose anything one doesn’t like could be classified as violence. It’s a post modern point of view, but I think it’s not particularly descriptive or useful, as it conjures up the wrong connotation and then implies that violence should be met with force.

It’s a very communist thing, happens in every country that turns to communism and is advocated for by all of them.
 
This is an extraordinarily rare occurrence—so rare, in fact, that it’s almost unheard of in modern society. The events being referenced date back more than 50 years, which underscores just how uncommon they are. Similarly, support for the idea of targeted assassinations of private citizens in our country is virtually nonexistent. It’s not so much bewildering as it is surprising to see so many people readily embrace the simplistic framing of a ‘villainous CEO’ who ‘murders’ and is equated with crime bosses or cartels. This narrative feels more like hyperbole than a reflection of reality.
What's not unheard of is immoral people taking advantage of other people. My maternal grandmother worked in grocery store checkout raising 7 kids, had all her retirement stolen by the owners when the store shut down and they moved to the dominican republic. My paternal grandfather worked in a coal mine, raised 6 kids, all his retirement stolen when the mine shut down. Both kept working because that was what you did. What's so surprising is the embracing and justification of white collar crime, you can murder hundreds of people or steal their livelihood but if you don't pull the trigger and only sign the paperwork you're free from accountability. That's bewildering. You can see from the reaction of both sides of the political spectrum how fed up people are with this.
 
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I suppose anything one doesn’t like could be classified as violence. It’s a post modern point of view, but I think it’s not particularly descriptive or useful, as it conjures up the wrong connotation and then implies that violence should be met with force.

It’s a very communist thing, happens in every country that turns to communism and is advocated for by all of them.

If Luigi Mangione were smart, he would have formed an LLC and then committed the murder. He could have defended his company saying the murder was just a cost of doing business. He probably could have also written off the gun and trip to NYC as a business expense.
 
This can’t be real.



IMG_3195.jpeg
 
The language seems like it's written by a fourth grader.

I can't speak to all denial letters but the ones I have seen aren't written like this.

Unsure if this is real or not.
I don't know if it's real or not, but something like half the population reads at a 4th grade level. A lot of official correspondence is written this way.

It also reads very much like many H&Ps that are checklist/EMR generated. Line after line of four- or five-word sentences enumerating pertinent positives and negatives.

This letter is kind of what I'd expect from an insurance company drone (maybe AI assisted) who's clicking through a checklist on a flow sheet. Because the drone doesn't know anything about medicine.

Click on diagnosis
Click on yes/no for ventilator
Click on yes/no if SBP was below 80
Etc
Machine generates letter

It's plausible to me.
 

Anyone else disappointed with the manifesto?

Our public school system is failing our home grown terrorists.
 

Anyone else disappointed with the manifesto?

Our public school system is failing our home grown terrorists.


He’s a private school kid. Unsurprisingly the manifesto uses the voice of Holden Caulfield.
 
The fact is the legal system in this country is not blind. Not blind to the wealth and power of the individual in question. The fact is that the very rich and powerful get away with stuff that regular people won’t. "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty". I’m not condoning murder but i can sympathize with the frustration people feel. it is time for a major overhaul of the insurance industry and the laxity on white collar crime in this country. Brian and Luigi may both end up martyrs.
 

Anyone else disappointed with the manifesto?

Our public school system is failing our home grown terrorists.
Have you read the one from the 15 yo girl school shooter?

Even accounting for her being 15, wow.
 
Have you read the one from the 15 yo girl school shooter?

Even accounting for her being 15, wow.

I usually try not to read this things.

My post was intended to be sarcastic and a poke at the "public schools are failing us" trope.
 
I usually try not to read this things.

My post was intended to be sarcastic and a poke at the "public schools are failing us" trope.
Sad disturbing and appalling all in one. So much so wrong in so many ways.

Female school shooters are so rare I wanted to see what was going on.
 
Katharine H Parker, the magistrate judge handling Luigi Mangione's pre-trial hearings, is married to Bret Parker, a former executive at Pfizer, a biopharmaceutical company, according to a Daily Beast report. She also has financial ties to Pfizer, as she holds stock in the firm”

No wonder why P Diddy’s attorney wanted to take this case. I wouldn’t be shocked if the jury acquitted Luigi. Just like OJ Simpson’s jury acquitted him.

And that’s why the Feds wanted to throw the duo charges on top of the state charges to nail him if the state case failed due to sympathy from jurors. Considering public opinion is on his side.

It’s ridiculous the mayor of New York met with the nypd to do the walk from the helicopter. Why wasn’t the mayor doing the same walk with the guy who set the woman on fire on the subway on Sunday? Not news worthy for the mayor?

This type of case for lawyers is equivalent who love asa 5.9 cases. Futile but sometimes can pull a Hail Mary off.
 
Katharine H Parker, the magistrate judge handling Luigi Mangione's pre-trial hearings, is married to Bret Parker, a former executive at Pfizer, a biopharmaceutical company, according to a Daily Beast report. She also has financial ties to Pfizer, as she holds stock in the firm”

No wonder why P Diddy’s attorney wanted to take this case. I wouldn’t be shocked if the jury acquitted Luigi. Just like OJ Simpson’s jury acquitted him.

And that’s why the Feds wanted to throw the duo charges on top of the state charges to nail him if the state case failed due to sympathy from jurors. Considering public opinion is on his side.

It’s ridiculous the mayor of New York met with the nypd to do the walk from the helicopter. Why wasn’t the mayor doing the same walk with the guy who set the woman on fire on the subway on Sunday? Not news worthy for the mayor?

This type of case for lawyers is equivalent who love asa 5.9 cases. Futile but sometimes can pull a Hail Mary off.

One of these men has been indicted on charges of bribery, campaign finance violations and wire fraud. The other is Luigi Mangione.

Screenshot_20241227_072657_Chrome.jpg
 
One of these men has been indicted on charges of bribery, campaign finance violations and wire fraud. The other is Luigi Mangione.

View attachment 396647
More than half the leaders in the world or business world use some type of corruption to get to where they are. Good for the mayor. I like him already.

He will walk free also.
 
More than half the leaders in the world or business world use some type of corruption to get to where they are. Good for the mayor. I like him already.

So now you've progressed to the point that you're openly cheering for corruption?

What the hell is wrong with you?
 
So now you've progressed to the point that you're openly cheering for corruption?

What the hell is wrong with you?
This is where things are going to start to get weird. Trump will dissolve congress and rule as a true dictator, shredding the Constitution, and people like @aneftp will welcome it, and say that this is the way the world should always work. Mark my words, it will happen.
 
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So now you've progressed to the point that you're openly cheering for corruption?

What the hell is wrong with you?
As I age. Wisdom tells me to never trust anyone in leadership. It’s not about cheering them on per se. And I post with a lot of sarcasm these days.

It’s me trying to tell or insinuate our leaders are all corrupt. And we need to boot them out at any turn we can. Put them under pressure.

The goal is to make everyone feel uncomfortable. That’s when people learn to perform. If the mayor knows his job is on the line. Maybe he will do a better job.

Real leaders perform under pressure. The coward ones sink and sink quickly. So if the mayor of the New York learns how to survive. He’s got me as a supporter.

Now someone like Matt gaetz crumbled like cookie crumbl. He’s weak. He presented all tough guy the last few years. He sunk quickly. It’s not like anyone of the news that is as released was new. He needed to take it like a man and go through the nomination process. Those are real leaders. They can take the heat.
 
As I age. Wisdom tells me to never trust anyone in leadership. It’s not about cheering them on per se. And I post with a lot of sarcasm these days.

It’s me trying to tell or insinuate our leaders are all corrupt. And we need to boot them out at any turn we can. Put them under pressure.

The goal is to make everyone feel uncomfortable. That’s when people learn to perform. If the mayor knows his job is on the line. Maybe he will do a better job.

Real leaders perform under pressure. The coward ones sink and sink quickly. So if the mayor of the New York learns how to survive. He’s got me as a supporter.

Now someone like Matt gaetz crumbled like cookie crumbl. He’s weak. He presented all tough guy the last few years. He sunk quickly. It’s not like anyone of the news that is as released was new. He needed to take it like a man and go through the nomination process. Those are real leaders. They can take the heat.

Agree.

I get surprised when educated people hold elected leaders with such regard. Nearly all are corrupt and pieces of $h!t.

These elected leaders should be afraid of disappointing their constituents and getting booted out of office.
 
This is where things are going to start to get weird. Trump will dissolve congress and rule as a true dictator, shredding the Constitution, and people like @aneftp will welcome it, and say that this is the way the world should always work. Mark my words, it will happen.
This is the exact type of hyperbole that led to Trump being elected again. Even the dummies eventually figured out that this kind of stuff is all lies. So, thanks, I guess…
 
This is the exact type of hyperbole that led to Trump being elected again. Even the dummies eventually figured out that this kind of stuff is all lies. So, thanks, I guess…

Victim blaming and a continuation of the idea that Trumpers have no agency of their own.

Insofar as any voter deserves blame for the actions of elected officials, Trumpers will deserve that blame for the errors going forward not those who were overly hyperbolic in their criticism or predictions.
 
This is the exact type of hyperbole that led to Trump being elected again. Even the dummies eventually figured out that this kind of stuff is all lies. So, thanks, I guess…
Exactly. Fake news. Just like the fake electors scam.
 
He attempted to overturn the election and intimidate Congress, obtuse much?
And congress tried to impeach him twice.

Will congress try to impeach him a 3rd time?

They (the dems) tried to litigate trump to death in the courts as well with all the civil (and criminals) proceeding.

So who’s trying to intimidate who here?
 
And congress tried to impeach him twice.

Will congress try to impeach him a 3rd time?

They (the dems) tried to litigate trump to death in the courts as well with all the civil (and criminals) proceeding.

So who’s trying to intimidate who here?
Well do not
1. Attempt to use your office to make other nations to dig up/make up dirt about your political opponents
2. Do not attempt to overthrow the government
3. Do not steal government documents
And in all probability you will not be impeached or dragged through the justice system.
 
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Well do not
1. Attempt to use your office to make other nations to dig up/make up dirt about your political opponents
2. Do not attempt to overthrow the government
3. Do not steal government documents
And in all probability you will not be impeached or dragged through the justice system.
False business tax filings? You didn’t include that. That’s persecution by Alvin Bragg

Why doesn’t Alvin Bragg or even the New York civil courts go after the estate of Brandon miller (the nyc developer) who killed himself in July for over stating his business worth over years. And he got loans by lying on how much his business was worth. Read about Brandon miller.

And his wife was one of those social influencers bragging how fabulous their lives were in the Hamptons etc.

You see tons of business lie to get loans but trumps company does the same private loans and the civil courts nail him with 1 billion in damages

That’s targeting a politician opponent.

Brandon miller killed himself with 34 Millier in debt. But the wife got 15 million from the suicide and she’s trying to protect it like crazy.

So go after the wife and the 2 little kids.

Oops….there bad press for New York prosecutors if they do that.

But he did the exact same thing as trump.
 
Is every thread on here eventually going to devolve into a political pissing match? There’s already one that’s a thousand pages long.
Post 233 by @rowsdower88 was the initial political salvo. A couple of posts later, @NumTacos brought in the Trump wild conspiracy theories about him dissolving Congress. I would say these two are the reasons for the devolution.
 
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