University of Toledo MSBS 2015-2016 (SMP)

[Flashboy11]

CBC has told me that she is making decisions on Friday....she will be making more decisions.

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[Flashboy11]

Can we all use some logic here, CBC is just waiting to see if she can sort out the previous class, this has got nothing to do with this years acceptances...please everyone stop jumping to conclusions

 

[ZedsDed]

Can we all use some logic here, CBC is just waiting to see if she can sort out the previous class, this has got nothing to do with this years acceptances...please everyone stop jumping to conclusions

Assuming that DothMotherKnow is an MSBS student and not a 12 yr old kid from Thailand, we have conflicting reports here. We will just have to wait and see. @Polacko13 was kind enough to PM me and tell me that he would update the thread after they get some answers from the administration. So, we'll see.

 

[Flashboy11]

What makes you think that just because 20 spots have been deferred to the following year that they still won't accept the same amount of people for MSBS like they usually have. This year was a mistake for the current MSBS students. I don't believe it will change the incoming amount of acceptances for MSBS.

I am a current MSBS student and wanted to confirm that we are not "simply upset and not accurately describing Toledo's response" (Not attacking you, ZedsDed. I know you are not sure what is actually going on with the program and just trying to look at the situation from all viewpoints). I came here to let future applicants know that what has happened is true... and because of that, I've spoken to CBC and she has confirmed that the program is not sending out any more acceptances for the incoming class until this situation has been dealt with.
No SMP gives a complete "clean slate" but this program, historically, came pretty close. We were told that if we were accepted, nothing in our past could hold us back, as long as we did well in the program. Because the adcom gave away the spots that were reserved for us, they were forced to rank us (Which they also said they would never do), and cast away individuals that were doing well in the program (Getting all A's, beating the M1 median test scores) because of something from their past. I am extremely lucky, and thankful that I'm one of the students accepted into their medical school. But because of this very real situation, the accepted individuals can't be happy because their friends have been rejected. Everyone in this program has "a past" (Low GPA, low MCAT, etc.) that has kept them from receiving an acceptance from medical school. It isn't fair that many individuals in our class spent so much money (50,000+ for OOS) and a year of time, worked extremely hard, and were rejected. I'm sure CBC does not want to continue accepting individuals until she knows she's not giving blank

 

[ZedsDed]

What makes you think that just because 20 spots have been deferred to the following year that they still won't accept the same amount of people for MSBS like they usually have.

Assuming that individual is actually a student, they are just reporting what they were told.

This year was a mistake for the current MSBS students. I don't believe it will change the incoming amount of acceptances for MSBS.

You are entitled to your optimism.

 

[DothMotherKnow]

Assuming that individual is actually a student, they are just reporting what they were told.



You are entitled to your optimism.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to give out more vague information in an already confusing situation. No, I don't know if no more students are going to be accepted/or if CBC is accepting more students this Friday. What I meant by "until this situation has been dealt with" is 1) Yes, she is busy right now with our current class. They dropped this bomb on us on Friday and have not given out any information. Students have been individually meeting with CBC, Pearson, and Mohamed to discuss their individual cases. The school never sent out an e-mail asking if students would want to meet... I have friends that have been told by the administration that an e-mail will be sent out to the deferred students about their situation everyday this week, and have not gotten anything. We have generally pieced together what has happened through hearing what individuals have been told at their individual meetings. So CBC and the adcom are currently dealing with the fallout. 2) Last I heard, CBC had not spoken to Pearson and Mohamed herself. She accepts individuals into this program, with baggage, that she believes the adcom can look past come decision time ... This did not happen this year. Once again, I am not CBC, I do not know exactly what she's thinking and what she's doing. But I would believe she would not want what happened to us this year, to happen in the future and need to work things out with them.

I would be weary of believing there will be the same amount of acceptances given out for MSBS this year (Once again, I do not know exactly what will happen. But I am weary...). 20 spots of the incoming 2016 class have already been allocated to MSBS students from this past year, and about 30 spots have been allocated to Med Start students (Those are guaranteed spots). I'm not sure they would want to allocate 50 seats to MSBS again... That would be 100/170 possible spots in the M1 class prior to looking at regular admissions. I want to put into perspective... MSBS students are students looking for a second chance. They don't need us. There are plenty of qualified applicants without baggage willing to apply and attend UTCOM.

 

[ZedsDed]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to give out more vague information in an already confusing situation. No, I don't know if no more students are going to be accepted/or if CBC is accepting more students this Friday. What I meant by "until this situation has been dealt with" is 1) Yes, she is busy right now with our current class. They dropped this bomb on us on Friday and have not given out any information. Students have been individually meeting with CBC, Pearson, and Mohamed to discuss their individual cases. The school never sent out an e-mail asking if students would want to meet... I have friends that have been told by the administration that an e-mail will be sent out to the deferred students about their situation everyday this week, and have not gotten anything. We have generally pieced together what has happened through hearing what individuals have been told at their individual meetings. So CBC and the adcom are currently dealing with the fallout. 2) Last I heard, CBC had not spoken to Pearson and Mohamed herself. She accepts individuals into this program, with baggage, that she believes the adcom can look past come decision time ... This did not happen this year. Once again, I am not CBC, I do not know exactly what she's thinking and what she's doing. But I would believe she would not want what happened to us this year, to happen in the future and need to work things out with them.

I would be weary of believing there will be the same amount of acceptances given out for MSBS this year (Once again, I do not know exactly what will happen. But I am weary...). 20 spots of the incoming 2016 class have already been allocated to MSBS students from this past year, and about 30 spots have been allocated to Med Start students (Those are guaranteed spots). I'm not sure they would want to allocate 50 seats to MSBS again... That would be 100/170 possible spots in the M1 class prior to looking at regular admissions. I want to put into perspective... MSBS students are students looking for a second chance. They don't need us. There are plenty of qualified applicants without baggage willing to apply and attend UTCOM.

Thanks for the info!

 

[wildcats8]

I know I'm jumping the gun, but they advertised 50 plus spots in the program. I'll definitely be asking for a refund if they only accept a number that is considerably less than that

 

[oscar1357]

I know I'm jumping the gun, but they advertised 50 plus spots in the program. I'll definitely be asking for a refund if they only accept a number that is considerably less than that

you already paid?

 

[DrMidlife]

Number of spots in the MSBS is irrelevant without info on how many of those MSBS spots will be converted to MD spots. You should not assume you'll get that info.

Certainty of an MD acceptance isn't what you're buying. If you would demand a refund based on lack of certainty, then you shouldn't be doing an SMP. SMPs are high risk. If you're risk averse, don't do one. Do more undergrad and/or a traditional masters with pubs, instead.

 

[wildcats8]

you already paid?

Haha no just the application fee. I know it's pennies compared to everything else, but that's false adversiving on their part.

 

[DothMotherKnow]

I know I'm jumping the gun, but they advertised 50 plus spots in the program. I'll definitely be asking for a refund if they only accept a number that is considerably less than that

Ah, here is the thing. Where does it say they HAVE TO give 50 plus spots in the program each year. The only source I can find is that "they accepted 54 students in 2014". They are giving you what has happened historically, not what must happen each year. That is what we found out the hard way in this program this year. We were repeatedly told that about 65% of MSBS students were accepted into the medical school in the past (or about 85% were accepted the previous year)... These are HISTORICALLY what happened, they never say it MUST happen each time. There is no case.

 

[wildcats8]

Number of spots in the MSBS is irrelevant without info on how many of those MSBS spots will be converted to MD spots. You should not assume you'll get that info.

Certainty of an MD acceptance isn't what you're buying. If you would demand a refund based on lack of certainty, then you shouldn't be doing an SMP. SMPs are high risk. If you're risk averse, don't do one. Do more undergrad and/or a traditional masters with pubs, instead.

Very true I planned on applying to other medical schools as well as Toledo. And it would only seem logical that admissions committee would put more stock in medical school courses than masters courses. But I'm not on one so I could be very off base.

 

[wildcats8]

Ah, here is the thing. Where does it say they HAVE TO give 50 plus spots in the program each year. The only source I can find is that "they accepted 54 students in 2014". They are giving you what has happened historically, not what must happen each year. That is what we found out the hard way in this program this year. We were repeatedly told that about 65% of MSBS students were accepted into the medical school in the past (or about 85% were accepted the previous year)... These are HISTORICALLY what happened, they never say it MUST happen each time. There is no case.

Yeah I see that but they gave us know reason to believe it would be dramatically different. They are advertising 54 students last year and 50 plus the previous years. If they only take 16 to 20, I'd say that is false advertising. It's more the principal of the whole situation. Even worse situation for the last year's class. If someone recorded lectures and had them saying they reserved a spot for each of them, they would definitely have a legal case.

 

[DrMidlife]

You're arguing the opposite of what you should be arguing. If Toledo is decreasing the MSBS class size to correspond to a decreasing number of available MD seats, that's responsible. It means Toledo wants to protect its 65% average. It means your chances are as good as they've ever been. Generally the smaller the class size, the higher the value of the program.

If Toledo was being dastardly, they'd be increasing the MSBS class size to get the revenue, as so many other SMPs have done.

 

[ZedsDed]

You're arguing the opposite of what you should be arguing. If Toledo is decreasing the MSBS class size to correspond to a decreasing number of available MD seats, that's responsible. It means Toledo wants to protect its 65% average. It means your chances are as good as they've ever been. Generally the smaller the class size, the higher the value of the program.

If Toledo was being dastardly, they'd be increasing the MSBS class size to get the revenue, as so many other SMPs have done.

Concur

 

[wildcats8]

You're arguing the opposite of what you should be arguing. If Toledo is decreasing the MSBS class size to correspond to a decreasing number of available MD seats, that's responsible. It means Toledo wants to protect its 65% average. It means your chances are as good as they've ever been. Generally the smaller the class size, the higher the value of the program.

If Toledo was being dastardly, they'd be increasing the MSBS class size to get the revenue, as so many other SMPs have done.

They only thing I'm arguing is I was led to believe there were 50 plus spots when I sent in my application. Hence the false advertising. I understand their response to the situation that Toledo itself created. I don't know why I should be penalized for their mistake. Again I realize the monetary value is pennies in comparison, but I'm working a horrible job right now and that money equates to hours of work I had to put in. It's all about the principle of the situation, for me at least.

 

[DrMidlife]

What, exactly, are you thinking you lose by being in a smaller class? Seriously.

 

[wildcats8]

What, exactly, are you thinking you lose by being in a smaller class? Seriously.

I have not been accepted lol. I'm glad for all the other people who have. I applied to a very selective SMP at Tulane and was wait listed. My whole point is with 50 plus spots it was a lot less compitive than the 16 that have been accepted so far. Tulane accepts that number. I wouldn't have applied to two highly competitive SMPs with low class sizes. With 50 plus spots this was more of a safety option even though I realize it is still highly competitive

 

[DrMidlife]

You're gonna get clobbered in biostats.

For odds of admission you'd need to know how many apps these programs get. The needle may not have even moved here.

 

[DothMotherKnow]

They only thing I'm arguing is I was led to believe there were 50 plus spots when I sent in my application. Hence the false advertising. I understand their response to the situation that Toledo itself created. I don't know why I should be penalized for their mistake. Again I realize the monetary value is pennies in comparison, but I'm working a horrible job right now and that money equates to hours of work I had to put in. It's all about the principle of the situation, for me at least.

"Why should you be penalized for their mistake?" You are learning right now (And maybe you won't. Maybe they'll accept more people into the program and you'll be one of them and 65% of those students will get into UTCOM with the incoming 2016 class and you'll be one of them), that life is unfair. Why are the deferred students being penalized for the school's mistake? Why do my friends have to wait around for a year to matriculate when they're clearly smart enough, worked hard enough to enter this year but are penalized because the school gave away their spots?

Sorry, not trying to attack you but you have to think of all sides of things.

 

[wildcats8]

You're gonna get clobbered in biostats.

For odds of admission you'd need to know how many apps these programs get. The needle may not have even moved here.

Lol you don't say? 50/X is always going to be greater 16/X no matter what X is in this scenario (and 1/3 less of a chance is a needle mover in my opinion). Once again all I'm saying is they false advertised they number of acceptances due to a mistake by their school. And I think I'll be fine in any course I take, but thanks for the opinion.

 

[wildcats8]

"Why should you be penalized for their mistake?" You are learning right now (And maybe you won't. Maybe they'll accept more people into the program and you'll be one of them and 65% of those students will get into UTCOM with the incoming 2016 class and you'll be one of them), that life is unfair. Why are the deferred students being penalized for the school's mistake? Why do my friends have to wait around for a year to matriculate when they're clearly smart enough, worked hard enough to enter this year but are penalized because the school gave away their spots?

Sorry, not trying to attack you but you have to think of all sides of things.

I completely agree with you and have said in a previous post they got the much worse deal (on the bright side at least they know they have an acceptance and can travel or save up money for a year). I highly doubt I'll come here if accepted. I'm only making a point we should get our application fees refunded if they take anything outside of a standard deviation of past years acceptances. I know SDN is the perfect place to make this argument haha.


But in all seriousness, best of luck to everyone attending this program.

 

[wildcats8]

Deleted

 

[DrMidlife]

All this over $45?

For the love of all that's holy grow a sense of proportion.

You're clobbering yourself, no need for biostats to do it.

 

[X3NA]

LOL. Sorry for interrupting the thread like this. I couldn't control myself....

 

[ZedsDed]

DrMidlife's posts are always sobering

 

[FranzLO]

Bummer. Sorry for not wanting to read through everything it is been mentioned, but are those that were deferred put at the top of the waitlist or on it at all? Makes perfect sense for them to be at the top.

 

[SpaceLeftBlank]

Assuming that DothMotherKnow is an MSBS student and not a 12 yr old kid from Thailand,

How do you know DothMotherKnow isn't both?

 

[wildcats8]

All this over $45?

For the love of all that's holy grow a sense of proportion.

You're clobbering yourself, no need for biostats to do it.

Maybe you should read posts in their entirety. I've said multiple times it's pennies is comparison to everything.

 

[navynotnavajo]

Bummer. Sorry for not wanting to read through everything it is been mentioned, but are those that were deferred put at the top of the waitlist or on it at all? Makes perfect sense for them to be at the top.

There is no waitlist this year. Apparently all regular admissions people that didn't snag a spot were rejected summarily, not waitlisted. And again, there's no waitlist for MSBS kids either. So "deferred" means "accepted for fall 2016".

 

[ZedsDed]

How do you know DothMotherKnow isn't both?

Like a Thai Doogie Howser?

 

[DrMidlife]

i take time away from med school, which i'm in, to try to help people make good decisions based on facts and reality and being as old as most of y'all's parents. i have no other motive to be here.

y'all might notice that there aren't a whole lot of people paying attention to the postbac forum who have recovered from GPA damage and got where we wanted to go. if lord of the flies is what you want, you got it. enjoy.

 

[ZedsDed]

i take time away from med school, which i'm in, to try to help people make good decisions based on facts and reality and being as old as most of y'all's parents. i have no other motive to be here.

y'all might notice that there aren't a whole lot of people paying attention to the postbac forum who have recovered from GPA damage and got where we wanted to go. if lord of the flies is what you want, you got it. enjoy.

I wouldn't let one or two individuals discourage you from posting. Your advice is valued by the vast majority of the postbacc forum.

 

[DrMidlife]

this is so not an isolated event. a lot of y'all are good kids but the vapid myopic entitled ones have worn me out. there are more and more every year. before my many vapid myopic entitled classmates started showing their colors on the wards this year, i was able to give new SDNers the benefit of the doubt. I don't any more and that's taken all the fun out of it.

 

[RubicStorm]

this is so not an isolated event. a lot of y'all are good kids but the vapid myopic entitled ones have worn me out. there are more and more every year. before my many vapid myopic entitled classmates started showing their colors on the wards this year, i was able to give new SDNers the benefit of the doubt. I don't any more and that's taken all the fun out of it.

I was wondering if there might have been some countertransference since the tone of your posts seemed to have veered from what I remembered. Bad experiences on the ward would do that. That's a shame, but understandable. Your posts were instrumental in helping me navigate the SMP/pre medical journey.

Maybe because I only show up a few weeks at a time here, I don't feel the posts of the new SDNers as being facepalm-worthy yet. Optimistic and a bit naive, sure, but that's pretty much required for people who take this path.

Two things: 1) I feel the program admins did make a mistake in this case by making overly broad assurances at the beginning of the year. I know my program was careful to be circumspect when talking about our future prospects. They let the "reputation" of the program do most of the talking.

2) It seems like the program's admins are trying to do the right thing and aren't just going to railroad people. This could have been entirely out of their control. To be realistic, if it comes down to a battle between the medical school folks and the SMP folks, we all know who's going to come out on top. Reading between the lines, it sounds like the Toledo MSBS didn't have enough people on the medical school committee, which is a problem. My SMP program recently lost someone who used to be a voting member of the med school admissions.

This is, however, a good life lesson for all of us, including those in medical school and beyond. Be wary when the dean makes promises about residency spots... especially when they are sincere. You never know what can happen in the next 1-4 years.

 

[IrishMOB]

this is so not an isolated event. a lot of y'all are good kids but the vapid myopic entitled ones have worn me out. there are more and more every year. before my many vapid myopic entitled classmates started showing their colors on the wards this year, i was able to give new SDNers the benefit of the doubt. I don't any more and that's taken all the fun out of it.

Thanks DrMidlife for your advice here, and on countless other threads. Its too bad that other people have ruined it for you.

That being said, for others here I talked with the outoing dean who confirmed the "overbooked airplane" parallel. They may be lowering number slightly in accordance, so take that all for what its worth. Still looks like a great program that wants kids to do well, so barring financial restraints I am likely to attend this over acceptances at Wayne State, Georgetown, and Case Western.

 

[FranzLO]

There is no waitlist this year. Apparently all regular admissions people that didn't snag a spot were rejected summarily, not waitlisted. And again, there's no waitlist for MSBS kids either. So "deferred" means "accepted for fall 2016".

A med school with no waitlist? Is this a thing? I also understand what deferred meant but I still don't get how they wouldn't have a waitlist that still opens up the chance of getting in by August.

 

[TrillyBassily]

So I just got off the phone with CBC. She told me that they're trying to have the second wave of decisions available by the middle of next week. I and a lot of others had heard that more decisions would be available today but evidently that will not be the case.

Could anyone who got accepted into the program already message me and let me know what their stats were like? I've already been accepted to the medical physiology program at Case Western Reserve but I'd much rather go to this program if I could gain admissions, though I am what I'd call a "fringe candidate"

 

[DothMotherKnow]

A med school with no waitlist? Is this a thing? I also understand what deferred meant but I still don't get how they wouldn't have a waitlist that still opens up the chance of getting in by August.

There was a waitlist for the incoming medical class for the regular applicant pool. From what I've heard, those individuals were all rejected sometime last week so there is no longer a waitlist. As navynotnavajo mentioned, there is no waitlist for this MSBS class either. The adcom doesn't see the likelihood of any movement in the next few months and would probably take from the 20 deferred MSBS if there was...

 

[ssjcooler35]

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the Toledo MSBS didn't have enough people on the medical school committee, which is a problem. My SMP program recently lost someone who used to be a voting member of the med school admissions.

This is precisely what happened. The former Assistant Dean of Admissions that retired last year is close with CBC and a big MSBS advocate. CBC had a more direct line to the admissions committee prior to this year.

 

[FranzLO]

There was a waitlist for the incoming medical class for the regular applicant pool. From what I've heard, those individuals were all rejected sometime last week so there is no longer a waitlist. As navynotnavajo mentioned, there is no waitlist for this MSBS class either. The adcom doesn't see the likelihood of any movement in the next few months and would probably take from the 20 deferred MSBS if there was...

This makes more sense and is in line with what I assumed. Thanks.

 

[navynotnavajo]

For those who have been accepted to MSBS this year, here's the link for the facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/805421636243218/

 

[cehurst]

For everyone else that hasn't gotten accepted yet, have you completely written off this program? I feel like it's getting close to the point where I have to make a definitive selection of which program to start in the fall (I figured I'd have a decision by now) plus all the other shenanigans going on with MSBS concern me.

 

[MBH0421]

For everyone else that hasn't gotten accepted yet, have you completely written off this program? I feel like it's getting close to the point where I have to make a definitive selection of which program to start in the fall (I figured I'd have a decision by now) plus all the other shenanigans going on with MSBS concern me.

Yes, I accepted another position at another school. I feel like this program at toledo might not be a very solid thing, so I'm going with a more reliable program.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

 

[ClassicJandT]

For everyone else that hasn't gotten accepted yet, have you completely written off this program? I feel like it's getting close to the point where I have to make a definitive selection of which program to start in the fall (I figured I'd have a decision by now) plus all the other shenanigans going on with MSBS concern me.

Same- this program was originally my first choice SMP, but all this uncertainty has pushed me towards taking my acceptance at rfu and going there instead. I still think Toledo msbs can be a valuable program, but program attendees can't put all their eggs in one basket and need to have backup plans in place if things go south. However, that is something that is true for any SMP, now more so than ever as linkages have gotten weaker with every program across the board.

 

[jmy156]

For everyone else that hasn't gotten accepted yet, have you completely written off this program? I feel like it's getting close to the point where I have to make a definitive selection of which program to start in the fall (I figured I'd have a decision by now) plus all the other shenanigans going on with MSBS concern me.

Yes, I accepted another position at another school. I feel like this program at toledo might not be a very solid thing, so I'm going with a more reliable program.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Same- this program was originally my first choice SMP, but all this uncertainty has pushed me towards taking my acceptance at rfu and going there instead. I still think Toledo msbs can be a valuable program, but program attendees can't put all their eggs in one basket and need to have backup plans in place if things go south. However, that is something that is true for any SMP, now more so than ever as linkages have gotten weaker with every program across the board.

leaning towards elsewhere also. shame because I had high hopes for this one

 

[cehurst]

I was really hoping to do this program. Now I'm thinking I'm better off accepting my acceptance in Michigan's physiology MS and reapplying to med school afterwards.

 

[bigindian4891]

Im doing Case Western's medical physiology.

 

[Flashboy11]

Anyone have any updates on decisions? The wait is becoming torture now.