UPMC needs a Chair of RadOnc

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Summary of position attached

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Gfunk6]

They are seeking "the singular from the infinite."

Huh. Kind of like your future RO employer's position on hiring among the glut of new grads.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

They are seeking "the singular from the infinite."

Huh. Kind of like your future RO employer's position on hiring among the glut of new grads.

Dripping with "consulting firm" MBA language...yeesh.

 

[medgator]

Honestly more chair jobs this year than good PP freestanding ones with technical partnership track. Must be a great time to have experience and BC for a position like that

 

[seper]

tough job... expectations to maintain high profits

 

[MegaVoltagePhoton]

There seem to be TONS of chair jobs open this year. Should I test the WomenWhoCurie waters and apply (I won't)

 

[OTN]

There seem to be TONS of chair jobs open this year. Should I test the WomenWhoCurie waters and apply (I won't)

DO_IT.ShiaLaBeouf

 

[BobbyHeenan]

So strange.

UPMC is one of the best gamma knife centers out there (I believe they have two, maybe three GK's), yet nary a mention of it in that recruitment literature. Their neurosurgeon's run that GK program (and are good IMO). But how do you put a recruitment package together and not even mention the GK program?

 

[bachiraki]

Looks like Beriwal would be a good internal fit for above position….

 

[evilbooyaa]

They just let Beriwal walk to go into industry and their competitor.
Dwight Heron got pushed out a few years ago...
****ing idiots lmao.

 

[bachiraki]

They like just let Beriwal walk to go into industry and their competitor.
Dwight Heron got pushed out a few years ago...
****ing *****s lmao.

Ohh, Didn’t know that

 

[RSAOaky]

This is a brilliant way to weed out potential applicants. Anyone who is enough of a masochist to read the entirety of the recruitment pamphlet is probably enough of a masochist to want to be the chairman of Pitt.

 

[Radonc90]

I read all 36 pages of the pdf, so I qualify as an idiot lol.

A job description for this position ideally is 1-2 pages long, people that apply for this job usually know the rope.
UPMC is more interested in themselves in this ad, 36 pages is insane, probably written by some bureaucrats...

Page 31: EDUCATION AND TRAINING:
Medical Degree with an unrestricted medical license and eligibility for licensure within the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania required. Must be trained and Board-certified in the specialty of
Radiology with exceptional clinical experience dedicated exclusively to the practice of radiation
oncology. Current rank of Associate Professor+. Additional training and/or higher education in research
(PhD) and/or management (MBA, MHA) is a plus. ASTRO Fellow designation (FASTRO) is a plus.

Page 32:
The Chair will lead a clinical and research enterprise comprised of more than 50 Faculty/Radiation
Oncologists, more than 30 Medical Physicists, and three Radiation Biologists, as well as all supporting staff
and research infrastructure across 28 Radiology Oncology locations.

Page 33: "Docimetry"...

Search firm's name is fantastic: Ransom Group, Inc...
Just pay a ransom and get the job...

 

[deleted1111261]

As a grad, I’m enjoying this. Fair amount of erroneous information, but carry on

edit: I wouldn’t do that job for $2million.

 

[Radonc90]

From what I understand, a lot of clinical issues at UPMC when you get to that size...
A lot of faculty are struggling to get along with each other, from what I was told...

PS: So Beriwal joined Varian and stopped practicing medicine???

 

[RADONC4285]

From what I understand, a lot of clinical issues at UPMC when you get to that size...
A lot of faculty are struggling to get along with each other, from what I was told...

PS: So Beriwal joined Varian and stopped practicing medicine???

 

[hal9k]

From what I understand, a lot of clinical issues at UPMC when you get to that size...
A lot of faculty are struggling to get along with each other, from what I was told...

PS: So Beriwal joined Varian and stopped practicing medicine???

hard to believe...

 

[thecarbonionangle]

From what I understand, a lot of clinical issues at UPMC when you get to that size...
A lot of faculty are struggling to get along with each other, from what I was told...

PS: So Beriwal joined Varian and stopped practicing medicine???

UPMC has issues? Colour me surprised!

 

[medgator]

From what I understand, a lot of clinical issues at UPMC when you get to that size...
A lot of faculty are struggling to get along with each other, from what I was told...

PS: So Beriwal joined Varian and stopped practicing medicine???

Does have a role at the competitor across the street (river??) @evilbooyaa alluded too. Unclear if clinical as UPMC probably does have non competes on all of its docs.

Epically terrible decision by UPMC onc leadership to allow him to bail

 

[evilbooyaa]

Does have a role at the competitor across the street (river??) @evilbooyaa alluded too. Unclear if clinical as UPMC probably does have non competes on all of its docs.

Epically terrible decision by UPMC onc leadership to allow him to bail

Can't imagine clinical given UPMC's notorious non-competes.

 

[TheWallnerus]

I have no idea what an MD who joins Varian ever does or accomplishes. Gives a physical to a linac?! I kid. Pat Kupelian was a big name in prostate. Then he joined Varian. I didn’t hear from him much after that. Although I saw a lot of Facebook posts from beautiful Pacific islands and the Swiss Alps after he joined Varian. Looked wonderful.

 

[deleted1111261]

I did a few rounds of interviews (not for a Kupelian / Khuntia / Beriwal level job). It was for an MSL-like job. Sounded like sales but not sales (there was some sort of separation between sales and education/research). Dee and Pat seemed awesome, as did the remainder of the people I spoke with. They seemed very happy but both made it clear that for the job I was applying for I was going to experience quite the financial haircut. I would love to work for them in some capacity one day, but not as an MSL.

 

[TheWallnerus]

I did a few rounds of interviews (not for a Kupelian / Khuntia / Beriwal level job). It was for an MSL-like job. Sounded like sales but not sales (there was some sort of separation between sales and education/research). Dee and Pat seemed awesome, as did the remainder of the people I spoke with. They seemed very happy but both made it clear that for the job I was applying for I was going to experience quite the financial haircut. The senior level jobs probably pay pretty well, but I have no idea as none of that seems public/posted. I would love to work for them in some capacity one day, but not as an MSL.

The goal I guess is to wind up like Chris. You'd have to be at the company decade-plus and none of the "rad onc skillz" would serve you well to become a Chris. I still hold hope that one day a rad onc will be Varian CEO though. Knew Chris way back when he was definitely a grunt. Tim Guertin was a grunt too, like maybe a linac repairman, but only knew him as CEO. Tim is doing transcendental meditation in Hawaii or Asia somewhere last I heard.

 

[Neuronix]

I used to work in medical affairs at one of the device makers. Pay is not great. It all gets individually negotiated, but think low tier academics. Though there can be some benefits like stock options if you're brought in at a high level (this would be someone senior) and who knows what the bigger names are able to work out. The junior guys often work something out to continue working part-time in clinic to keep their skills and supplement salary. The senior guys do it more as a bridge to retirement.

Job duties are typically interfacing with other MDs to sell devices, making decisions about who to support with grant money, market strategy for existing and upcoming devices, helping with regulatory submissions, etc. It involves a lot of travel (customers, conferences, etc), meetings (basically internal consulting for the other divisions that don't understand the medical side), and writing internal and external documents.

 

[deleted1111261]

CEO of Varian has a education up to a bachelor’s degree. Wow.

 

[evilbooyaa]

CEO of Varian has a education up to a bachelor’s degree. Wow.

THAT is the American dream, right there. Not any of this doctor BS.

 

[medgator]

CEO of Varian has a education up to a bachelor’s degree. Wow.

In business admin/marketing, no less

 

[TheWallnerus]

CEO of Varian has a education up to a bachelor’s degree. Wow.

Gates and Jobs didn’t even have that

 

[medgator]

Gates and Jobs didn’t even have that

They had relevant experience in their industries?

 

[TheWallnerus]

They had relevant experience in their industries?

Sort of. Gates did some programming in junior high. It’s an interesting story. He had access to some mainframe serendipitously and by the time he finished school he had more “industry experience” than almost anybody on the planet. Pure right time right place stuff. Steve audited a calligraphy course in college and did some LSD. Woz came up with a phone electronic hack so he could make long distance calls for free.

 

[RickyScott]

Sort of. Gates did some programming in junior high. It’s an interesting story. He had access to some mainframe serendipitously and by the time he finished school he had more “industry experience” than almost anybody on the planet. Pure right time right place stuff. Steve audited a calligraphy course in college and did some LSD. Woz came up with a phone electronic hack so he could make long distance calls for free.

some of those guys were also prodigies. I think Gates scored in top 5 in the country on a math test. Unless pursuing a career in academics, college probably not beneficial for these types.

Professor who knew Bill Gates as a student at Harvard: He was the smartest person I've ever met

It's all about pancakes.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[yesmaster]

“Classes will dull your mind, destroy the potential for authentic creativity.”

 

[deleted1111261]

some of those guys were also prodigies. I think Gates scored in top 5 in the country on a math test. Unless pursuing a career in academics, college probably not beneficial for these types.

Professor who knew Bill Gates as a student at Harvard: He was the smartest person I've ever met

It's all about pancakes.

www.businessinsider.com

It’s this notion that just because we did medicine we are smarter. I bet Chris Toth is pretty sharp and his lack of post bachelor training is probably irrelevant.

 

[medgator]

It’s this notion that just because we did medicine we are smarter. I bet Chris Toth is pretty sharp and his lack of post bachelor training is probably irrelevant.

That's a fair point... Elon musk started a groundbreaking car/energy and space corporations without significant degrees in those areas

 

[RadOncMegatron]

some of those guys were also prodigies. I think Gates scored in top 5 in the country on a math test. Unless pursuing a career in academics, college probably not beneficial for these types.

Professor who knew Bill Gates as a student at Harvard: He was the smartest person I've ever met

It's all about pancakes.

www.businessinsider.com

Absolutely, if you are some rare genius college might not be for you. In fact, I think they had to drop out in order for the college not to take their patents (I believe if you invent something during college, the college can take credit ??? - Isn't that the case with Microsoft, Facebook, and Napster???). It's like Lebron James, Kobe, Kevin Garnett, they did not need college.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

i love stories like this. I’ve met some people over the years with many degrees like a PHD, MD, MBA, MPH, etc. i find often a negative corelation between the number of useless degrees and the quality of the individual as a clinician, coworker and human being. This is not to say that some of these people cant be fantastic and some are.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

i love stories like this. I’ve met some people over the years with many degrees like a PHD, MD, MBA, MPH, etc. i find often a negative corelation between the number of useless degrees and the quality of the individual as a clinician, coworker and human being. This is not to say that some of these people cant fantastic and some are.

I have two of those degrees, and just wanted to say you that need to proofread your posts, *sshole.

 

[Lamount]

That's a fair point... Elon musk started a groundbreaking car/energy and space corporations without significant degrees in those areas

A formal education seems to yield people who are highly effective at advancing an industry... but anectodotally, it seems like those who truly disrupt an industry and change the world are outsiders.

 

[RickyScott]

That's a fair point... Elon musk started a groundbreaking car/energy and space corporations without significant degrees in those areas

A formal education seems to yield people who are highly effective at advancing an industry... but anectodotally, it seems like those who truly disrupt an industry and change the world are outsiders.

Looked at his wiki page. Sounds like another stem prodigy who had been programming since he was 10, Had a physics degrees from UPenn and had been accepted to Stanford PhD material science. If you are that good at math etc and not pursuing academics, formal education may not help much. These are not the kind of guys who would put up with years of phd research and bs post docs.

 

[communitydoc13]

I almost never buy the great man concept. Bezos, Gates, Musk are all undoubtedly among the smartest of people, but their main gifts regarding business don't seem technical to me and exempting Gates' pancake problem solution in college, I'm not sure how much great science they have done. But they are not afraid of risk and are good at getting people to back them with big time money. I'm convinced that almost all heros are unsung.

Now this guy: Hugh Everett III - Wikipedia Wow.

Forgot to add. Beriwal the best poster on MEDNET IMO. Hope he keeps contributing. I don't know him at all but seems great.

 

[seper]

No way, Beriwal is going to fight noncompete and do implants with AHN in Pittsburgh? Balsy. Perhaps that’s the end of noncompete as we know it.

 

[medgator]

No way, Beriwal is going to fight noncompete and do implants with AHN in Pittsburgh? Balsy. Perhaps that’s the end of noncompete as we know it.

I'd think that's better than trying to move job to wv or the mistake on the lake and doing a long ass commute indefinitely

 

[Neuronix]

I almost never buy the great man concept.

It sure doesn't hurt that the father of William Henry Gates III (aka Bill Gates) was William Henry Gates Sr., a wealthy and prominent attorney. I once heard that his extended family is one of the richest in the pacific northwest.

It's a lot easier to take big risks when you have those sorts of resources to fall back on if you fail.

It's a lot easier to develop enormous talent when you are instantly given the resources necessary to develop your talent once you begin showing it, and you don't have to worry about other external factors.

It's a lot easier to "be in the right place at the right time" if you have connections that put you in those places.

Uh oh, did I just describe privilege in a nutshell? Ok flame away at me.

I was stewing recently listening to NPR's podcast "How I Built This", hearing Steve Ellis (founder of Chipotle) make it sound like he was a self made man. His first several restaurants were entirely funded by his father. His father told him to make a business plan and go get funding to keep expanding. Oh ok dad, thanks for the tip. The sad thing to me is that people like this will never understand the unique opportunities that they had that most people don't.

Anyway, it's usually the great person in the right circumstances who makes history. That's how life works. Being great alone doesn't do it, but also having all the right circumstances isn't enough.

When I'm considering people for admissions or hiring decisions, I like to focus on people who excelled despite their backgrounds. That is a racially neutral approach to all of this. But this is hard to uncover and quantify, so it's a lot easier to just tick a checkbox next to URM. My high cost of living zip code is made up of 80% persons who would be considered URM, and many of them are a lot more financially well off than I am.

CEO of Varian has a education up to a bachelor’s degree. Wow.

In all fairness he does also have an MBA. In medical school I took a late fourth year elective in student health. The MBA students, all from super rich families, came in to get their vaccinations for lavish trips all over the world. You know, "international business" in Patagonia or whatever. Being a thorough med student, I would ask about sexual histories, and let's just say they were having a lot of fun...

That's the American dream in a nutshell--the modern aristocracy. Be born to a rich, well connected family. Party your way through life. Donald Trump even became president that way. I'm amazed.

 

[RSAOaky]

Forgot to add. Beriwal the best poster on MEDNET IMO. Hope he keeps contributing. I don't know him at all but seems great.

Agreed. Not quite as succinct as the monosyllabic Mendenhall responses but he gets to the point with an appropriate amount of info.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

It sure doesn't hurt that the father of William Henry Gates III (aka Bill Gates) was William Henry Gates Sr., a wealthy and prominent attorney. I once heard that his extended family is one of the richest in the pacific northwest.

It's a lot easier to take big risks when you have those sorts of resources to fall back on if you fail.

It's a lot easier to develop enormous talent when you are instantly given the resources necessary to develop your talent once you begin showing it, and you don't have to worry about other external factors.

It's a lot easier to "be in the right place at the right time" if you have connections that put you in those places.

Uh oh, did I just describe privilege in a nutshell? Ok flame away at me.

I was stewing recently listening to NPR's podcast "How I Built This", hearing Steve Ellis (founder of Chipotle) make it sound like he was a self made man. His first several restaurants were entirely funded by his father. His father told him to make a business plan and go get funding to keep expanding. Oh ok dad, thanks for the tip. The sad thing to me is that people like this will never understand the unique opportunities that they had that most people don't.

Anyway, it's usually the great person in the right circumstances who makes history. That's how life works. Being great alone doesn't do it, but also having all the right circumstances isn't enough.

When I'm considering people for admissions or hiring decisions, I like to focus on people who excelled despite their backgrounds. That is a racially neutral approach to all of this. But this is hard to uncover and quantify, so it's a lot easier to just tick a checkbox next to URM. My high cost of living zip code is made up of 80% persons who would be considered URM, and many of them are a lot more financially well off than I am.



In all fairness he does also have an MBA. In medical school I took a late fourth year elective in student health. The MBA students, all from super rich families, came in to get their vaccinations for lavish trips all over the world. You know, "international business" in Patagonia or whatever. Being a thorough med student, I would ask about sexual histories, and let's just say they were having a lot of fun...

That's the American dream in a nutshell--the modern aristocracy. Be born to a rich, well connected family. Party your way through life. Donald Trump even became president that way. I'm amazed.

There are many of these people in our field who are extremely priviledged. Sons and daughters of chairs and attendings who did quite well. Jeez, why couldnt you get a job in california or florida? I guess your daddy ain’t a chair

 

[Radonky]

It sure doesn't hurt that the father of William Henry Gates III (aka Bill Gates) was William Henry Gates Sr., a wealthy and prominent attorney. I once heard that his extended family is one of the richest in the pacific northwest.

It's a lot easier to take big risks when you have those sorts of resources to fall back on if you fail.

It's a lot easier to develop enormous talent when you are instantly given the resources necessary to develop your talent once you begin showing it, and you don't have to worry about other external factors.

It's a lot easier to "be in the right place at the right time" if you have connections that put you in those places.

Uh oh, did I just describe privilege in a nutshell? Ok flame away at me.

I was stewing recently listening to NPR's podcast "How I Built This", hearing Steve Ellis (founder of Chipotle) make it sound like he was a self made man. His first several restaurants were entirely funded by his father. His father told him to make a business plan and go get funding to keep expanding. Oh ok dad, thanks for the tip. The sad thing to me is that people like this will never understand the unique opportunities that they had that most people don't.

Anyway, it's usually the great person in the right circumstances who makes history. That's how life works. Being great alone doesn't do it, but also having all the right circumstances isn't enough.

When I'm considering people for admissions or hiring decisions, I like to focus on people who excelled despite their backgrounds. That is a racially neutral approach to all of this. But this is hard to uncover and quantify, so it's a lot easier to just tick a checkbox next to URM. My high cost of living zip code is made up of 80% persons who would be considered URM, and many of them are a lot more financially well off than I am.



In all fairness he does also have an MBA. In medical school I took a late fourth year elective in student health. The MBA students, all from super rich families, came in to get their vaccinations for lavish trips all over the world. You know, "international business" in Patagonia or whatever. Being a thorough med student, I would ask about sexual histories, and let's just say they were having a lot of fun...

That's the American dream in a nutshell--the modern aristocracy. Be born to a rich, well connected family. Party your way through life. Donald Trump even became president that way. I'm amazed.

I don't disagree with all of the points in the post, but there is an undercurrent that if someone was "more privileged" in their access to resources and opportunities, they did not earn their path. I don't know anything about Steve Ellis, but having dad and friends chip in for a a few stores then going to build a multibillion dollar multinational corporation is deserving of some credit. I don't like Trump at all, but what he did was nothing short of remarkable and may not be repeated in our lifetime. When does the criticism of privilege end or begin? Irene Curie is not worthy of praise because mommy helped her out?

 

[medgator]

I don't disagree with all of the points in the post, but there is an undercurrent that if someone was "more privileged" in their access to resources and opportunities, they did not earn their path. I don't know anything about Steve Ellis, but having dad and friends chip in for a a few stores then going to build a multibillion dollar multinational corporation is deserving of some credit. I don't like Trump at all, but what he did was nothing short of remarkable and may not be repeated in our lifetime.

What did he do exactly? From a business sense, he had 6 bankruptcies and an analysis showed he would have been better off sticking daddy's money in an s&p fund rather than blowing it on real estate all those decades.

If you mean getting elected as an outsider, sure. Didn't win pop vote either time, but I'll give you that

 

[metallica81788]

Can we please turn the conversation back to radiation oncology field privilege sheesh

 

[Radonky]

What did he do exactly? From a business sense, he had 6 bankruptcies and an analysis showed he would have been better off sticking daddy's money in an s&p fund rather than blowing it on real estate all those decades.

If you mean getting elected as an outsider, sure. Didn't win pop vote either time, but I'll give you that

Yeah, speaking about his election. Haha I didn't know that

 

[communitydoc13]

I think all departments should go to rotating chairs. (I believe some departments are run this way?) Three year terms. Would do a lot of good.

1. Takes away the "one person you need to impress" phenomenon in residency. Where I trained, the chair had absolute sway over whether you were going to be asked to stay and a disproportionate ability to influence your job prospects in academia. 3 year terms makes the chair club more inclusive and less powerful. I personally believe the emphasis on networking and the layers of exclusive networks in radonc has hurt the field.

2. Gets rid of this ridiculous "vision thing". I'm guessing nearly every attending in academic medicine has something to add to a department (of course there should be right of refusal for those docs who really just need their lab time). I'm sure that satellite, work horse clinical attending who is a great teacher and is not well known in the field will do just great for 3 years and will emphasize different and important things relative to the guy who sees 3 patients a week and has 2 RO1s.