Upper Tier IM/EM Residencies

[fingerscrossedpremed]

I just finished my first semester of medical school, and it went much better than I expected. As a rough estimate from my averages versus the class averages, I'd definitely say I'm currently in the top 10% of my classes, and potentially in the top 1-5%. I've always had my sites set on doing EM/IM at a lower-mid tier academic hospital. However, after my first semester, I'm wondering if I could ever have the potential to match at a Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Johns Hopkins caliber residency. I realize that my class rank is only a small part of matching. Aside from class rank and excellent board scores (I'm definitely going to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX), what else would I need to do? I feel like I'd need to start working on it now if I wanted to match somewhere super competitive, I'm just not sure if its even worth me trying!

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[AlteredScale]

I don't know the ranking/reputations that well. But it seems like places like UCLA, UCSF, MGH, Northwestern, UChicago, Vandy all have a strong research component to their EM program. Duke, USC, UCSD, NYP-Columbia all have a "token" DO in their program. Idk about JHU, I'm sure it's similar to Vandy.

I think the biggest thing to add on top of being at the top of your class and having good board scores is honoring your third year rotations, doing well come 4th year, getting solid SLOE's from PD's residing at EM ACADEMIC programs and not community hospitals. On top of that, the research aspect is probably a huge disadvantage coming from a DO school. If you do a quick comparison of NIH funding between any DO and most neighboring MD programs, you'll see who has the upper hand. Many PI's are focused on their lab team first and peopl coming from the affiliated university/med school get priority after that.

Keep it up! It's def tough to rank that high so you're doing great work. Good luck!

 

[DO2016EM]

You can get an interview with UCLA and Northwestern, JHU as a DO, just need boards. IM, not so sure about that.

 

[AlteredScale]

You can get an interview with UCLA and Northwestern, JHU as a DO, just need boards. IM, not so sure about that.

Obviously you know better than I do but I've never seen a DO resident on the roster or alumni page for ucla (Ronald Reagan) or Northwestern for EM? Did you have DO colleagues on the interview trail who interview there?

 

[fingerscrossedpremed]

I don't know the ranking/reputations that well. But it seems like places like UCLA, UCSF, MGH, Northwestern, UChicago, Vandy all have a strong research component to their EM program. Duke, USC, UCSD, NYP-Columbia all have a "token" DO in their program. Idk about JHU, I'm sure it's similar to Vandy.

I think the biggest thing to add on top of being at the top of your class and having good board scores is honoring your third year rotations, doing well come 4th year, getting solid SLOE's from PD's residing at EM ACADEMIC programs and not community hospitals. On top of that, the research aspect is probably a huge disadvantage coming from a DO school. If you do a quick comparison of NIH funding between any DO and most neighboring MD programs, you'll see who has the upper hand. Many PI's are focused on their lab team first and peopl coming from the affiliated university/med school get priority after that.

Keep it up! It's def tough to rank that high so you're doing great work. Good luck!

So, it sounds like I should probably start trying to get into research as soon as I possibly can if I want to pursue a competitive EM/IM residency.

 

[alpinism]

With the exception of a few EM programs, most don't really care about research.

In addition, the best EM programs are often located at hospitals with not so great IM programs.

What really matters:
-great USMLEs (250+)
-great grades (top 10%+)
-great SLOEs from well respected programs (2 aways minimum)
then
-having connections to the region where the residency is located (support system nearby)
then
-extra curricular activities (research, volunteering, leadership)

Some programs are more holistic than others (just like med school) but that's how applications are usually screened and evaluated in a nutshell.

 

[kenjixshadow]

Are you talking about matching to EM or IM or combined EM/IM? There are 29 EM/IM residency spots a year with 12 programs. They are competitive and you'll be glad just to match with these limited spots.
If talking EM alone, Vandy has never and will not rank a DO in their EM department. A DO did an sub-i there, scored honor with a positive SLOE, and the letter explicitly said that the program would not rank the applicant.
If talking IM alone, you won't even get an interview with JHU simply because you're a DO. Heck, DOs still haven't been able to crack other top programs, let alone JHU.

 

[fingerscrossedpremed]

Are you talking about matching to EM or IM or combined EM/IM? There are 29 EM/IM residency spots a year with 12 programs. They are competitive and you'll be glad just to match with these limited spots.
If talking EM alone, Vandy has never and will not rank a DO in their EM department. A DO did an sub-i there, scored honor with a positive SLOE, and the letter explicitly said that the program would not rank the applicant.
If talking IM alone, you won't even get an interview with JHU simply because you're a DO. Heck, DOs still haven't been able to crack other top programs yet, let alone JHU.

EM or IM separately, 3 extra years of training after medical school is plenty for me! And that doesn't suprise me about Vanderbilt though. However, I do believe they have a DO in their internal medicine program.

 

[DO2016EM]

Obviously you know better than I do but I've never seen a DO resident on the roster or alumni page for ucla (Ronald Reagan) or Northwestern for EM? Did you have DO colleagues on the interview trail who interview there?

UCLA used to have a Western resident that graduated the program in 2011. Northwestern interviews DO but none have matched yet. I didn't mean to take away from anything you posted, I actually agree that right now all OP can try to do is boards, grades, and try to get some research. In the grand scheme, I do think EM is easier to march into those "high tier" places as a DO than in IM.

 

[surfguy84]

For EM, would research need to be "EM research" or would research in radiology, anesthesiology, etc. be considered related enough to EM to add value?

 

[laconfidential]

From an IM perspective, matching at the cream of the crop (which is not necessarily the programs on your list) is, for the foreseeable future, not gonna happen.

But, if you want your shot at more competitive programs:
-have a very high class rank
-rock the usmle steps 1 & 2
-do something where you can stand out: publications, national leadership, win some big awards
-have a stellar 3rd year with lots of honors
-you can rotate at places as a 4th year but clinically you better be a rockstar

Excellent, academic IM programs are within your reach if you plan ahead.

 

[asdf123g]

what kind of comlex score would one need to match an average EM program?

 

[cbrons]

For EM, would research need to be "EM research" or would research in radiology, anesthesiology, etc. be considered related enough to EM to add value?

They just told you research doesnt matter for EM that much at all period. I was told by a program director at a prestigious east coast program specifically to not waste my time on research for EM.

 

[SLC]

UCLA used to have a Western resident that graduated the program in 2011. Northwestern interviews DO but none have matched yet. I didn't mean to take away from anything you posted, I actually agree that right now all OP can try to do is boards, grades, and try to get some research. In the grand scheme, I do think EM is easier to march into those "high tier" places as a DO than in IM.

My understanding is that the better UCLA program for EM is Harbor anyway. They took a DO a couple years back. I think he's a 3rd year now. But there weren't any before him and there haven't been any since.

 

[Bucks901]

My understanding is that the better UCLA program for EM is Harbor anyway. They took a DO a couple years back. I think he's a 3rd year now. But there weren't any before him and there haven't been any since.

There is a DO in the first year class at ULCA Olive-view now.

 

[Low Flow]

I'm in a strikingly similar position as you OP. Finished in probably top 5%.

Interests right now include IM/ID fellowship, maybe ER/CC or IM/CC. I really enjoy teaching and the academic setting in general (from what little I've seen, that is). Was hoping to be able to land a residency at an academic hospital somewhere (aside from matching in my home state, I don't really have any other preference for location).

What's the upper limit for a DO applying IM with excellent grades/boards and a little research (as much as you can muster up, coming from a DO school)?

 

[Bucks901]

I'm in a strikingly similar position as you OP. Finished in probably top 5%.

Interests right now include IM/ID fellowship, maybe ER/CC or IM/CC. I really enjoy teaching and the academic setting in general (from what little I've seen, that is). Was hoping to be able to land a residency at an academic hospital somewhere (aside from matching in my home state, I don't really have any other preference for location).

What's the upper limit for a DO applying IM with excellent grades/boards and a little research (as much as you can muster up, coming from a DO school)?

.

 

[racerwad]

what kind of comlex score would one need to match an average EM program?

Doesn't matter - the "higher end" ACGME EM programs only care about the USMLE.

 

[Bucks901]

Doesn't matter - the "higher end" ACGME EM programs only care about the USMLE.

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