Upset over my college days disappearing due to the pre-med game

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Good grades is not enough. Good MCAT score is not enough. You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes. (The fact that I will be asked about my personal hobbies in medical school interview process makes me extremely uncomfortable. They are for MY enjoyment and MY personal happiness ONLY. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to use it as a tool to get in. But the thing is that I participate in certain recitals and programs that have my name associated online. A google search of my name will show you what sport and instrument I play. So if some adcom googles my name and sees it and sees that I haven't put it on my application, he or she will ask me about it or wonder why I never mentioned it in my interview. And that will jeopardize my chances.)

The reason that I do not want to talk about it is that everything else on the app (shadowing, research, clinical exposure) has an aspect of presentation and showcasing your experiences, which is fine. I don't want to do that with the things that I do that are very personal to me. My sport and instrument are both very personal to me.

It just gets too much sometimes.

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?"

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

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[Optimus-Prime]

Its a big commitment ahead of you, you have to start getting used to it

There'll will still be plenty of time for college life, just not to the level or frequency of your peers.

You can always take a gap year/do a masters

 

[LivingLikeLarry]

Low key every single one of us pre-meds feels this way, we're just not allowed to admit it.

The problem is, if medical schools didn't look for these activities as you suggested, then they would almost immediately run out of spots several times over. These expectations are in place to ensure that only the most dedicated to the profession get a place.

I agree that attaching timesheets and labels to things like our own personal hobbies is a hassle, but ultimately, it's necessary.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Low key every single one of us pre-meds feels this way, we're just not allowed to admit it.

The problem is, if medical schools didn't look for these activities as you suggested, then they would almost immediately run out of spots several times over. These expectations are in place to ensure that only the most dedicated to the profession get a place.

I agree that attaching timesheets and labels to things like our own personal hobbies is a hassle, but ultimately, it's necessary.

It's not even about that. It's about taking what I love doing and being forced to manipulate it and put it on an app. And that doesn't even include that fact that an adcom might make a judgement like "This isn't a real sport at an NCAA level" or "this activity doesn't relate to medicine" which makes it even more worse.

 

[gyngyn]

It's not even about that. It's about taking what I love doing and being forced to manipulate it and put it on an app. And that doesn't even include that fact that an adcom might make a judgement like "This isn't a real sport at an NCAA level" or "this activity doesn't relate to medicine" which makes it even more worse.

You really don't have to share any of this on your application.

 

[Spinach Dip]

You think playing an instrument or volleyball (or w/e) looks bad?

Try volunteering at a horse rescue for a couple months. Then all your interviewers can scowl at you and say "Well if you love animals so much why dont you be a vet?" And they will dismiss you out of hand before even talking to you.

 

[ERDOC555]

It's not even about that. It's about taking what I love doing and being forced to manipulate it and put it on an app. And that doesn't even include that fact that an adcom might make a judgement like "This isn't a real sport at an NCAA level" or "this activity doesn't relate to medicine" which makes it even more worse.

Honestly, I think you should simply suck it up, and deal with the discomfort for an application cycle. You did cool things in Undergrad for yourself, not to get into med school. You know that and that's all that matters. So what if Adcoms or other people think you did them to seem interesting? You know why you did them and that's all that matters.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Honestly, I think you should simply suck it up, and deal with the discomfort for an application cycle. You did cool things in Undergrad for yourself, not to get into med school. You know that and that's all that matters. So what if Adcoms or other people think you did them to seem interesting? You know why you did them and that's all that matters.

Because, sometimes, doing cool and interesting things =/= getting into med school.

 

[ifnotnowwren]

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?"

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

1. You're going to spend your whole life having to juggle work and personal time. Undergraduate is just the tip of the iceberg. The career of being a doctor is notorious for a difficult work-life balance. Making sacrifices is going to be a theme for this whole journey.

2. But how do you prove that you truly want to help people and are humble? You can't. So this process is set up so that you have to put your time and energy is where your mouth is. Volunteering indicates that you are willing to spend time helping others. Some pre-meds probably do it to box check. But they were still willing to do it to become a physician and show that they are willing to give up their time to do things for other people and work towards their goal.

3. Shadowing indicates that you have spent time with doctors and know what their job actually consists of. This is undeniably important, it just is. We are embarking upon 4 more years of school, hard work, mountains of debt, and incredible responsibility to the public and future patients. Adcoms want to see that you have some inkling of knowledge about what you are signing up for - that you have perhaps seen the long hours, non-compliant patients, current every day smokers, loads of paperwork, hard work, etc, and on the flip side the new technology, making diagnoses, improving someone's quality of life, the level of scientific knowledge and people skills required, and still said "yes this is for me".

 

[Neutropix]

You think playing an instrument or volleyball (or w/e) looks bad?

Try volunteering at a horse rescue for a couple months. Then all your interviewers can scowl at you and say "Well if you love animals so much why dont you be a vet?" And they will dismiss you out of hand before even talking to you.

Try telling everyone in your interviews you are a militant vegan. I confronted some fur wearers on some of the campuses too. Hopefully I'll have better luck next cycle.

 

[jqueb29]

It really shouldn't be that hard. Yeah you certainly have to do a good bit of work, but you should easily still be able to have a great deal of fun.

 

[Goro]

Start enjoying life, and that will impress
Adcoms.

Stop doing stuff to impress us. If you're approaching this process as a set of boxes to check, you'll never be a doctor.

Good grades is not enough. Good MCAT score is not enough. You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes. (The fact that I will be asked about my personal hobbies in medical school interview process makes me extremely uncomfortable. They are for MY enjoyment and MY personal happiness ONLY. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to use it as a tool to get in. But the thing is that I participate in certain recitals and programs that have my name associated online. A google search of my name will show you what sport and instrument I play. So if some adcom googles my name and sees it and sees that I haven't put it on my application, he or she will ask me about it or wonder why I never mentioned it in my interview. And that will jeopardize my chances.)

The reason that I do not want to talk about it is that everything else on the app (shadowing, research, clinical exposure) has an aspect of presentation and showcasing your experiences, which is fine. I don't want to do that with the things that I do that are very personal to me. My sport and instrument are both very personal to me.

It just gets too much sometimes.

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?"

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

 

[ERDOC555]

Because, sometimes, doing cool and interesting things =/= getting into med school.

Haha, I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I agree with you 100%. Do everything to make yourself a well rounded candidate, then also do fun things you like so you're not miserable in college. What I was saying is to do both, and then OP should just deal with the discomfort of also putting down some of the cool interesting things OP did on his/her app.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

OP, you're under no obligation to disclose your personal hobbies. So if you'd rather not talk about your instrument or your sport, that's fine. By not sharing this, you do run some risk of leaving things out of your application that might make you a more attractive candidate. But it's unlikely that playing an instrument in your free time is going to make or break your application, anyway. (I also can't really imagine a scenario in which an adcom would judge you based on which sport you play... And adcoms want to see you do things that are unrelated to medicine. It shows that you're a person, not a premed robot.)

Obviously, there are some things you can't (or at least shouldn't) skip out on, like getting some clinical experience. But think of this experience as something that's designed to help you rather than something you have to do because evil adcoms force you to. Find a volunteer gig doing something you really like. Shadow a doctor in a specialty that interests you. Use your clinical experience to reflect on what kind of doctor you want to be. And keep doing the things you enjoy doing.

I know this process can start to feel invasive and the pressure can sometimes be too much. But to some extent, it's unavoidable. You're applying for a highly selective, competitive educational program. Yes, schools are going to want to know things about you! Including some personal things. But you get to decide how you portray yourself and what you choose to share.

 

[HybridEarth]

Let me get this straight.... You don't want to share your "personal" hobbies, but you want to advise people on very personal decisions?

 

[WedgeDawg]

If you're approaching this process as a set of boxes to check, you'll never be a doctor.

I understand this sentiment, but this has been shown to not be true in all cases. We've had several instances of people here essentially box check and get in.

@ OP

When you're asked about your hobbies, adcoms aren't asking "how will this make this person a better doctor", they're asking "what does this tell me about this person". If you don't have ANYTHING that interests you, yeah, it might be a problem, but answering "what do you like to do in your spare time?" with "I like to hang out with my friends and family, watch TV, and read stuff" is a perfectly acceptable answer, especially if you follow it with "I think it's important to take time to yourself - this seems to be a long and involved process and it's good to take a step back and appreciate the things that are important to you every so often". No one on earth would fault you for saying that.

If you don't want to put your personal hobbies on your application, then don't. It won't really hurt you. You might be asked about them in an interview (in the way I asked it above) but don't read into that too much. They're just trying to get a picture of you as a person. No one is going to judge you based on whether or not your personal hobby is "more impressive" than the next person's. That's not how this works.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Let me get this straight.... You don't want to share your "personal" hobbies, but you want to advise people on very personal decisions?

Two completely different things

 

[HybridEarth]

Two completely different things

I guess you're right if you look at it on a superficial level. Not here to pick a fight at all, but that just seems *extremely* odd to me...

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I guess you're right if you look at it on a superficial level. Not here to pick a fight at all, but that just seems *extremely* odd to me...

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

Giving my two cents to someone else on their problems is completely different.

 

[mimelim]

Good grades is not enough. Good MCAT score is not enough. You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes. (The fact that I will be asked about my personal hobbies in medical school interview process makes me extremely uncomfortable. They are for MY enjoyment and MY personal happiness ONLY. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to use it as a tool to get in. But the thing is that I participate in certain recitals and programs that have my name associated online. A google search of my name will show you what sport and instrument I play. So if some adcom googles my name and sees it and sees that I haven't put it on my application, he or she will ask me about it or wonder why I never mentioned it in my interview. And that will jeopardize my chances.)

The reason that I do not want to talk about it is that everything else on the app (shadowing, research, clinical exposure) has an aspect of presentation and showcasing your experiences, which is fine. I don't want to do that with the things that I do that are very personal to me. My sport and instrument are both very personal to me.

It just gets too much sometimes.

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?"

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

Every single person that goes through medical training sacrifices something to do it. It is a long and hard course. If you can't find a balance now, I strongly recommend against pursuing a career in medicine. There is nothing magical about your undergrad years or medical school or becoming an attending. You are going to be busy from now until the end of your career. Your grades will matter. What people think of you will matter. If you are unhappy sacrificing things now, you are either destined to be miserable in this profession or you have no idea what you are doing. Being a rather optimistic person, I'm not sure which I think is more likely here. Given that I don't know you at all, I won't guess.

I will however point out things in your original post that I wonder about...


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Good grades is not enough. Why should they be? Good MCAT score is not enough. Why should it be? You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. No, you don't. Plenty of people get into medical school every year without volunteering. Plenty of people get into medical school having no clue what they are doing. If you don't think this is a bad idea, I don't know how to help you. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. No you don't. Plenty of people get into medical school every year with zero research. Further, research experience is far more than 'demonstrating scientific curiosity'. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community. No, you don't. Plenty of people get into medical school every year with zero community service. Most people, admissions committees included value altruism because most of us as a result of our experiences think that it makes for better future physicians. While there certainly isn't a randomized trial to demonstrate this, I think it is hard to argue that this isn't logically sound.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes. (The fact that I will be asked about my personal hobbies in medical school interview process makes me extremely uncomfortable. They are for MY enjoyment and MY personal happiness ONLY. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to use it as a tool to get in. But the thing is that I participate in certain recitals and programs that have my name associated online. A google search of my name will show you what sport and instrument I play. So if some adcom googles my name and sees it and sees that I haven't put it on my application, he or she will ask me about it or wonder why I never mentioned it in my interview. And that will jeopardize my chances.) You don't have to put down hours on any experience you don't want to. Nobody is going to negative mark you if they happen to find out that you do other things. The fact that you think this is worrisome by itself given how illogical it is.

The reason that I do not want to talk about it is that everything else on the app (shadowing, research, clinical exposure) has an aspect of presentation and showcasing your experiences, which is fine. I don't want to do that with the things that I do that are very personal to me. My sport and instrument are both very personal to me. So then don't put it on your application.

It just gets too much sometimes.

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school. I get it, you feel entitled to happy, free college years and also go to medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?" Because people lie. Worse yet, they don't actually know the answers to those questions.

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school. This is simply not true.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life? I'll be frank. I showed up.

Stop trying to impress admissions committees.
#1 Figure out what makes you happy
#2 Do those things
#3 If becoming a doctor is what will make you happy, then figure out how the admissions process works. Yes, most, if not all applicants need to sacrifice aspects of their lives in order to get into medical school. But, the concept that admissions is all encompassing and soul crushing is errant. You are either doing something wrong or on the wrong path.

 

[md-2020]

@OP: Why isn't entry into the medical profession guaranteed and without competition? Can't we just chillax during UG and have a nice cozy seat at [insert free elite medical school here with guaranteed placement into whatever specialty you want] waiting?

Well, why am I not the opening day starter for the Yankees? I like baseball, I work hard, and genuinely want to be a professional athlete!

In the current state of society medicine is an attractive and in-demand field. For various reasons. Like it or not, that's just how it is. You can't just expect it to be handed to you for free.

 

[McSpicy]

I'm sure most pre-meds relate to this feeling. I was getting frustrated with keeping up with my peers in terms of research, volunteering, etc when I could've been learning a new language or sharpening up my musical skills. I learned to get used to it because the remainder of medical education also involves jumping through the hoops in the forms of more exams, more research, more free clinic work, you name it. I believe that adcoms want to see us excel in school and kill the MCAT while juggling 15 extracurriculars because it tests our devotion to the career path.

 

[EverStriving]

I was going to write a long-ish post but as always @mimelim hits it out of the park.

So I'll just make a couple points:

1. Unfortunately, no matter what path you take in life, you will have to do things you won't necessarily want to do in order to impress or please other people. Or simply because they said so. Why? Because they have power and you need something from them (in this case, a medical education). Once you work for a living, under a boss you don't particularly like, you will come to appreciate this fact.

2. Sometimes people in power know more than you do and have more wisdom. Adcoms want to see certain things on applications for very good reason. Volunteering and community service are there to encourage personal growth, not to check a box on an app. Research is recommended because science is the driving force behind medical progress. A profound understanding of its principles and execution are critical to optimal treatment of your future patients, who will be trusting you with their lives. First-hand experience in research lends a far better understanding of how science is done, and also how it can be flawed, misinterpreted, or manipulated by conflicts of interest. Shadowing allows you to see what a potentially very stressful career will actually be like, and corrects whatever flawed expectations you may have developed (Grey's Anatomy, I'm looking at you).

Adcoms are quite literally giving you the secrets to becoming a great doctor. You shouldn't see these expectations as burdens - be thankful that you are being explicitly told which experiences you should be exposing yourself to, in order to become the best person you can be.

 

[JustAPhD]

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

Giving my two cents to someone else on their problems is completely different.

Interesting way to put it

 

[Goro]

I swear, colleague, this is probably the single greatest post I've ever seen on SDN.
Mods, please sticky!

Every single person that goes through medical training sacrifices something to do it. It is a long and hard course. If you can't find a balance now, I strongly recommend against pursuing a career in medicine. There is nothing magical about your undergrad years or medical school or becoming an attending. You are going to be busy from now until the end of your career. Your grades will matter. What people think of you will matter. If you are unhappy sacrificing things now, you are either destined to be miserable in this profession or you have no idea what you are doing. Being a rather optimistic person, I'm not sure which I think is more likely here. Given that I don't know you at all, I won't guess.

I will however point out things in your original post that I wonder about...
.

And to the OP, why on Earth would you say something like this???? Hobbies make you human and jump off the page as a real person. So if you're "the guy who collects stamps" or "sings in barbershop quatets" or "play semi-professional frisbie golf" those are laudable things.

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I swear, colleague, this is probably the single greatest post I've ever seen on SDN.
Mods, please sticky!




And to the OP, why on Earth would you say something like this???? Hobbies make you human and jump off the page as a real person. So if you're "the guy who collects stamps" or "sings in barbershop quatets" or "play semi-professional frisbie golf" those are laudable things.

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

I don't know why exactly. It's just that the admissions process makes me feel very judged so I feel as if my hobbies are going to be used as a way to evaluate me rather than get to know me. Admittedly it's my lack of understanding of the admissions process but I don't know how to get over this feeling

 

[Ismet]

You think playing an instrument or volleyball (or w/e) looks bad?

Try volunteering at a horse rescue for a couple months. Then all your interviewers can scowl at you and say "Well if you love animals so much why dont you be a vet?" And they will dismiss you out of hand before even talking to you.

Because, sometimes, doing cool and interesting things =/= getting into med school.

Volunteering at a horse rescue for a couple months is not what made you unsuccessful. Either it was how you handled the adversity in the interview or something else entirely.

Try telling everyone in your interviews you are a militant vegan. I confronted some fur wearers on some of the campuses too. Hopefully I'll have better luck next cycle.

Again, being a vegan isn't what made you unsuccessful, it's how you present yourself. "Militant"? You actually confronted people on your interview days for wearing fur? Your goal here is to get into medical school, not to make people open their eyes to the realities of the livestock industry. I'm not being critical of veganism in the slightest (I'm vegetarian), just how you approach these situations. You're going to have patients and you're going to work with residents, attendings, nurses, support staff etc that may be racist, sexist, bigoted, etc. Not that those things are okay, but you have to deal with them appropriately, which almost always means holding your tongue, and if it's really egregious or affecting patient care, reporting the situation to your course director or someone supervisory. Not confronting them head on, especially when you're the lowest person on the totem pole.

It's not even about that. It's about taking what I love doing and being forced to manipulate it and put it on an app. And that doesn't even include that fact that an adcom might make a judgement like "This isn't a real sport at an NCAA level" or "this activity doesn't relate to medicine" which makes it even more worse.

For your hobbies, list them or don't. I don't know why you have this defensive attitude from the get-go, but the hobbies are just a chance for adcoms to get to know you better and know you as a person, not as a box-checking pre-med robot. If you don't want to list them, then don't. But then don't rage against the machine and think that all these things don't matter in the extremely competitive game that is med school admissions.

Stop feeling judged. We're not judging you. We're not pointing at your hobbies and laughing or saying "that's not a real hobby" or anything of the sort. At the end of the day we want to know that you're a human being with a personality and a vested interest in medicine.

 

[Neutropix]

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

Giving my two cents to someone else on their problems is completely different.

If you play golf just be careful about mentioning it in your interview at UDT (University of Donald Trump). Trump believes golf should stay elite. "People should aspire to play golf." You should only bring it up if your'e already very affluent..

My 2c.

 

[eteshoe]

The solution to your predicament seems simple:

Go to college and keep a good GPA (not as a pre-med). Enjoy your time and do what you like. Graduate and evaluate if medicine is for you. If yes, enroll and take all the necessary pre-reqs and other ECs and the MCAT. Attend med school. Act like and adult and get used to the struggle that will never end until you retire.

 

[Neutropix]

Again, being a vegan isn't what made you unsuccessful, it's how you present yourself. "Militant"? You actually confronted people on your interview days for wearing fur? Your goal here is to get into medical school, not to make people open their eyes to the realities of the livestock industry. I'm not being critical of veganism in the slightest (I'm vegetarian), just how you approach these situations. You're going to have patients and you're going to work with residents, attendings, nurses, support staff etc that may be racist, sexist, bigoted, etc. Not that those things are okay, but you have to deal with them appropriately, which almost always means holding your tongue, and if it's really egregious or affecting patient care, reporting the situation to your course director or someone supervisory. Not confronting them head on, especially when you're the lowest person on the totem pole.

You got trolled, sister. Much love. No disrespect.

 

[Ismet]

You got trolled, sister. Much love. No disrespect.

Trolling's a bannable offense, doncha know

(P.S. I've witnessed what you described. So maybe there's a lurking militant vegan in here who can learn something too!)

 

[Neutropix]

Trolling's a bannable offense, doncha know

I know. I know. Please have mercy, oh great one!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Benefit of the doubt is a wonderful thing

 

[piii]

You could list complaining on your app!

 

[JustAPhD]

I can imagine OP will make a thread in a couple years titled "Upset over my golden 20s disappearing due to the med school game".

 

[ortnakas]

I don't want to share my personal hobbies because that makes me feel as if they are being exploited for purposes of admission.

Giving my two cents to someone else on their problems is completely different.

So, don't share them. Your hobbies are things YOU want to do. If you like sky diving, trombone playing, mushroom hunting, or underwater basket weaving, more power to you. Putting it on your application will help you seem unique, but you're not obligated to. It's an application illustrating your highlights, not a government background check-- you can include or not include whatever you want (as long as the things you include are true).

 

[Tenk]

College + extracurriculars + a part time job is a joke compared to med school which is a joke compared to residency.

It's not easy. But nothing worth living ever is.

 

[Snoopy2006]

Mimelim already pretty much said it all. Not much to add. If you want to become a physician, learn how to play the admissions game. You're free to choose otherwise. And much of the "game" that pre-meds complain about is actually rooted in sound principles. Too many medical students who didn't shadow enough as undergrads had very skewed perceptions of the day-to-day life of doctors and ended up miserable or dropping out.

A perfect application is not necessary. I certainly had no research as an undergrad.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?" Because if this is true, you should have concrete life experiences (like ... volunteering) on your application that back up this desire to help people.

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school. <-- This is one of the most erroneous statements I've ever seen. An anecdote: my anatomy lab partner M1 year was a great, charitable guy who also had completed a PhD in cell biology prior to medical school. He didn't shadow enough doctors as a student or understand the day-to-day life of a physician, the day-to-day life as a resident. Ended up leaving medical school in his clinical years once he saw what mundane medicine was truly like. Good intentions are not enough. You can love science and have a good heart and be a complete buffoon who doesn't understand at all what it means to be a physician.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

I believe this comes down to your worldview and how you choose to see things. 1 premed may party once a week on average and study the rest of the week and be happy with this routine, because they're able to find some limited time to squeeze in hobbies and de-stress. Another premed may party hard once a week and be miserable because they constantly compare themselves to the business majors going out 4 times a week, and feel like they're sacrificing their college years. You can choose to be happy with the free time that you have for your hobbies, or focus on the obligations that can get in the way. This is very much a choice.

Find volunteering/extracurriculars that legitimately interest you - if they do, they shouldn't feel like checking boxes off an application. Volunteering at a cancer center and speaking to patients undergoing chemo and listening to their stories was incredibly and innately rewarding for me as a premed. Find something that doesn't feel like work.

Stop feeling persecuted and judged. Unless you're Ma-Ti, the power of your heart isn't going to get you into medical school. There are only a few slots relative to the number of applicants. Admissions committees have to find ways to select for these spots, and they do their best to get to know you as a person (unlike some countries where only merit-based test scores get you into medical school). Your hobbies and interests will help them get a better picture of who you are outside of your MCAT.

Success in any field requires hard work. Stop thinking of yourself as a victim sacrificing their prime years, and celebrate the fact that you get to go to college, receive an education, socialize, find time for your hobbies, discover your interest in science (or otherwise), and work towards a pretty amazing career reserved for only a certain number of people.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Volunteering at a horse rescue for a couple months is not what made you unsuccessful. Either it was how you handled the adversity in the interview or something else entirely.

Right way to ask about an activity of this nature: "Tell me about this activity, Spinach. What motivated you to do such an interesting thing?"

Wrong way: "Hello, Spinach. Sit down. Sorry about the weather, it's usually not this rainy around here. *opens file* Why don't you start by explaining why you don't want to be a doctor."



Maybe I responded poorly. Maybe I didn't make enough eye contact. Whatever the stated reason for my eventual rejection, I feel like the actual reason is because someone looked at my ECs and didn't like 1 or 2 of them. I suppose if I stocked shelves in an ER or worked at a soup kitchen 2 hrs per week over a summer, no one would have had an issue.

 

[mimelim]

Right way to ask about an activity of this nature: "Tell me about this activity, Spinach. What motivated you to do such an interesting thing?"

Wrong way: "Hello, Spinach. Sit down. Sorry about the weather, it's usually not this rainy around here. *opens file* Why don't you start by explaining why you don't want to be a doctor."



Maybe I responded poorly. Maybe I didn't make enough eye contact. Whatever the stated reason for my eventual rejection, I feel like the actual reason is because someone looked at my ECs and didn't like 1 or 2 of them. I suppose if I stocked shelves in an ER or worked at a soup kitchen 2 hrs per week over a summer, no one would have had an issue.

If the world paradigm is that most admissions committees are made up with idiots, I would tend to agree. Else, I disagree.

 

[Lucca]

I feel like what you are describing OP is just a transition to adulthood; a point where you have to stop only looking inward and are forced to balance external and professional obligations with what you feel is important, matters, makes you happy. I can understand how that can be stressful but, truly, when you are trying to join a service-oriented professional society a host of things are relevant beyond the simple metrics that depend solely on you as an individual and nothing else. Part of growing up is learning how to be part of a community and balance those expectations. If you want to be part of that community then it is easy, if you don't then it is hard. There is an alternative path. Many students (many SDN'ers, in fact) chose to only look inward during undergrad -- do what they wanted with who they wanted when they wanted to do it and then later reorganized themselves to apply to medical school. There is no shame in that. I can understand the anxiety that arises from being met with all of these expectations, suddenly, as you enter undergrad especially if during your adolescence and childhood most of your decisions were made (and daily activities planned) by your parents. Without any freedom in adolescence, the period where one really values their own freedom and independence wherein one attempts to "find themselves" extends into what is traditionally called "adulthood".

In short, its OK to have these feelings, but think about why precisely you are having them and what you could do to best fulfill yourself and achieve your professional goals. It may be that you are in the right path but the wrong pipeline.

 

[Ismet]

Right way to ask about an activity of this nature: "Tell me about this activity, Spinach. What motivated you to do such an interesting thing?"

Wrong way: "Hello, Spinach. Sit down. Sorry about the weather, it's usually not this rainy around here. *opens file* Why don't you start by explaining why you don't want to be a doctor."



Maybe I responded poorly. Maybe I didn't make enough eye contact. Whatever the stated reason for my eventual rejection, I feel like the actual reason is because someone looked at my ECs and didn't like 1 or 2 of them. I suppose if I stocked shelves in an ER or worked at a soup kitchen 2 hrs per week over a summer, no one would have had an issue.

Not denying that there are bad interviewers out there, but this is a not uncommon tactic in interviews - trying to rile the applicant up to see how they respond to adversity. Happened to me a couple times in med school interviews.

If you ever get the chance to be on an admissions committee, you'll realize that the bolded statement is completely false and I guarantee didn't happen, especially across multiple schools. Perhaps how you wrote about them or how you discussed them in interviews may have been an issue, but I have never seen an instance of someone picking out an EC and saying it was a bad EC. Plenty of times there's a comment about a lack of something (volunteering, clinical exposure, etc), and if you hypothetically have 1000 hours of horse rescue volunteering and only 20 hours of any kind of clinical exposure, of course people will question your motivation for medicine. But there's really very few things that would constitute a "bad" EC, those things being illegal or morally/ethically questionable.

 

[TBV]

Good grades is not enough. Good MCAT score is not enough. You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes. (The fact that I will be asked about my personal hobbies in medical school interview process makes me extremely uncomfortable. They are for MY enjoyment and MY personal happiness ONLY. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to use it as a tool to get in. But the thing is that I participate in certain recitals and programs that have my name associated online. A google search of my name will show you what sport and instrument I play. So if some adcom googles my name and sees it and sees that I haven't put it on my application, he or she will ask me about it or wonder why I never mentioned it in my interview. And that will jeopardize my chances.)

The reason that I do not want to talk about it is that everything else on the app (shadowing, research, clinical exposure) has an aspect of presentation and showcasing your experiences, which is fine. I don't want to do that with the things that I do that are very personal to me. My sport and instrument are both very personal to me.

It just gets too much sometimes.

It's one thing to be in medical school and handle its rigor. It's another to spend your precious college years trying to prove to adcoms that you can handle being a doctor and you can handle being in medical school.

Why isn't it as simple as "Are you good at science, do you want to help people, and are you humble?"

A person who truly wants to help people and truly loves science would be a great doctor, even if he or she has not shadowed or volunteered before going to med school.

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?

Sounds like you're drinking too much SDN kool aid. I did next to no shadowing because I took a gap year and worked in the healthcare field, this made it much more bearable to waste my day because I was getting paid. I did no volunteering because I hate it. Just killed the other areas on my app and found that I had tons of time to live the college lifestyle. Don't fall into the trap of letting the forums make you believe that there is only one way to med school.

 

[Turkishking]

Start enjoying life, and that will impress
Adcoms.

Stop doing stuff to impress us. If you're approaching this process as a set of boxes to check, you'll never be a doctor.

I feel like I am check boxing

 

[breezy16]

Good grades is not enough. Good MCAT score is not enough. You need to volunteer to show that you know what medicine is like. You need to do research to show that you have scientific curiosity. You need to do community service to show that you are dedicated to your community.

Worse yet, I have to put down the number of hours that I have contributed towards my personal hobby. And I would be put on the hot spot if I were not to have one. It feels like harassment sometimes...

Just wait til you have to do a CSS application. I swear they are just as bad as the IRS.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

The solution to your predicament seems simple:

Go to college and keep a good GPA (not as a pre-med). Enjoy your time and do what you like. Graduate and evaluate if medicine is for you. If yes, enroll and take all the necessary pre-reqs and other ECs and the MCAT. Attend med school. Act like and adult and get used to the struggle that will never end until you retire.

THIS^.

I'm honestly really glad I wasn't premed in college. I knew I was interested in medicine but I just wasn't ready to commit. I took whatever courses I wanted and just focused on getting good grades, having fun, and being involved in EC's that were meaningful to me. I never once stopped to consider whether what I was doing would "look good" to adcoms. And it's worked out fine for me! This isn't to say that it's impossible to find balance or enjoy yourself as a traditional applicant. But, OP, if you're having trouble finding balance as an undergrad, keep in mind that you don't have to commit to this path now. Come over to the nontrad dark side! We're pretty fun, actually.

 

[Mad Jack]

It's not even about that. It's about taking what I love doing and being forced to manipulate it and put it on an app. And that doesn't even include that fact that an adcom might make a judgement like "This isn't a real sport at an NCAA level" or "this activity doesn't relate to medicine" which makes it even more worse.

You really need to chill.

 

[TallPreMed]

I think OP went looking for a pity party and got the exact opposite of what they were looking for

 

[Dreamofmd23]

If you're upset about it, do something about it. Make the time to have a social life or do things you enjoy outside of medicine and academics. Every premed goes through this, if it were easy everyone would be doing it. You committed to this, now you need to balance things out. Whether it means setting up a study schedule, work schedule and setting aside time for EC's and possibly allowing a few hours on the weekend for your social life or hobbies; it can be done. A positive attitude and honest look at how you are managing your time would help you immensely. On the other hand, If you're that miserable and if you're not enjoying the volunteering, clinical experience and EC's you should reconsider why you want to pursue medicine.

 

[futuredoc71]

Sounds like you're drinking too much SDN kool aid. I did next to no shadowing because I took a gap year and worked in the healthcare field, this made it much more bearable to waste my day because I was getting paid. I did no volunteering because I hate it. Just killed the other areas on my app and found that I had tons of time to live the college lifestyle. Don't fall into the trap of letting the forums make you believe that there is only one way to med school.

hahaa sounds exactly like what I did. scribing for the win. had tons of time to party in college. and now i'm on my way to medical school. its all about balance and mindset.