Upset over my college days disappearing due to the pre-med game

[Dr. Scribe]

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I actually disagree with this (though I agree with the rest of your post). You don’t have to list anything you don’t want to on your amcas. If you try something a few times and really don’t like it, I think you should ditch it for something else. Why waste time doing something you hate and won’t be able to talk about convincingly?

Ah okay, I see. Here's why (IMO):

1. Its not really a waste of time to volunteer, even if you don't enjoy it.
2. You can explain why you didn't like it and why you did like the activity you stuck with. Assuming one actually does put time into an activity, the discussion during interviews should be convincing enough.
3. You don't have to list it on your AMCAS, but why wouldn't you? You did the work and exposed yourself to another aspect of serving your community. I think Adcoms care more about depth than they do about breadth when it comes to ECs, but having more talking points is never gonna hurt you.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Disclaimer: this is obviously just a matter of opinion.

Ah okay, I see. Here's why (IMO):

1. Its not really a waste of time to volunteer, even if you don't enjoy it.

There are so many ways to volunteer, and personally I think people do more when they enjoy it.

2. You can explain why you didn't like it and why you did like the activity you stuck with. Assuming one actually does put time into an activity, the discussion during interviews should be convincing enough.

I think talking about how didn’t enjoy a volunteering experience you didn’t even have to list is a dangerous move.

3. You don't have to list it on your AMCAS, but why wouldn't you? You did the work and exposed yourself to another aspect of serving your community. I think Adcoms care more about depth than they do about breadth when it comes to ECs, but having more talking points is never gonna hurt you.

I agree that they care about depth. If you’re doing activities you really enjoy, you’re more likely to dive deeper and be able to talk more animatedly about them. Just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean it doesn’t put you out of your comfort zone.

 

[Oso]

did someone say pre-game?


oh wait, "pre-med game" ..

 

[Dr. Scribe]

Disclaimer: this is obviously just a matter of opinion.



There are so many ways to volunteer, and personally I think people do more when they enjoy it.



I think talking about how didn’t enjoy a volunteering experience you didn’t even have to list is a dangerous move.



I agree that they care about depth. If you’re doing activities you really enjoy, you’re more likely to dive deeper and be able to talk more animatedly about them. Just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean it doesn’t put you out of your comfort zone.

Ehh, let's just agree to disagree. Cheers

 

[Goro]

Well I will listen with open ears and ask you, maybe you can make some sense of this. How is volunteering at ones own pace, for people who are grateful really indicative of anything other than one had a couple extra hours per week to pad ones resume? I just fail to see it.

It's demonstrating your altruism. You obviously know that not all patients are nice. And you also know that medicine is a service profession.

T he most successful interview candidates display honest passion for what they have done. That's why we like to tell people do what you love and love what you do.

 

[RNtoMD87]

It's demonstrating your altruism. You obviously know that not all patients are nice. And you also know that medicine is a service profession.

T he most successful interview candidates display honest passion for what they have done. That's why we like to tell people do what you love and love what you do.

I understand that, but shouldn't being in a service profession such as medical, law enforcement, fire fighting, social work, etc say something that many other professions don't?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Ehh, let's just agree to disagree. Cheers

Hence the very first line in my post.

 

[Promethean]

I understand that, but shouldn't being in a service profession such as medical, law enforcement, fire fighting, social work, etc say something that many other professions don't?

Sure, it says something about you.

Yes, it may even give you a leg up at some institutions, depending upon the values of the people you meet with and their overall perception of who you are. At LECOM, they really like people with military / law enforcement backgrounds, and they are also very cool with nontrads and people with former health care professions experience. Another school might see those things as more neutral and not nearly as important as the box checking you'd like to avoid.

Wherever you go, your background isn't necessarily going to get you entirely off the hook for doing what other applicants have to do in order to make their case. There are certain things that schools want to see. They find those aspects of an application useful in evaluating potential physicians.

You will be judged on the overall application, not on reaching a minimum score on each segment. I had virtually no research but a ton of volunteering and clinical experience. That worked for me. Maybe your mix of checked boxes will work for you. You seem to want some kind of assurances, and there are none in this process. For anyone.

 

[Goro]

I understand that, but shouldn't being in a service profession such as medical, law enforcement, fire fighting, social work, etc say something that many other professions don't?

Those count for the non-clinical ECs...demonstrations of altruism.

Clinical volunteering tells us that you know what you are getting into, and that you really want to spend the next 30-40 years around sick people, even the not nice ones.

Would you buy a new car without test driving it? A new suit without trying it on?

 

[RNtoMD87]

It's not assurance. If people are truly more qualified, and have earned the spot over me, give it to them. Just seen so many times where people who've accomplished less in their life, know far less, etc get ahead and I'm like "what are people thinking?" I have no problem with more qualified people getting ahead of me. That's not my concern.

Sure, it says something about you.

Yes, it may even give you a leg up at some institutions, depending upon the values of the people you meet with and their overall perception of who you are. At LECOM, they really like people with military / law enforcement backgrounds, and they are also very cool with nontrads and people with former health care professions experience. Another school might see those things as more neutral and not nearly as important as the box checking you'd like to avoid.

Wherever you go, your background isn't necessarily going to get you entirely off the hook for doing what other applicants have to do in order to make their case. There are certain things that schools want to see. They find those aspects of an application useful in evaluating potential physicians.

You will be judged on the overall application, not on reaching a minimum score on each segment. I had virtually no research but a ton of volunteering and clinical experience. That worked for me. Maybe your mix of checked boxes will work for you. You seem to want some kind of assurances, and there are none in this process. For anyone.

.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Those count for the non-clinical ECs...demonstrations of altruism.

Clinical volunteering tells us that you know what you are getting into, and that you really want to spend the next 30-40 years around sick people, even the not nice ones.

Would you buy a new car without test driving it? A new suit without trying it on?

Those count for the non-clinical ECs...demonstrations of altruism.

Clinical volunteering tells us that you know what you are getting into, and that you really want to spend the next 30-40 years around sick people, even the not nice ones.

Would you buy a new car without test driving it? A new suit without trying it on?

But somehow clinical work does not count for clinical volunteering even though it's the same if not more intense experience?

 

[KU Brendan]

In my experience, the only people who read the applications that carefully are those who are going to interview a candidate, not entire committees. When I'm about to interview someone, I read the personal statement (which, let's be honest, are all about the same--except some have terrible grammar and spelling, which make me start wondering why the person didn't put more effort into it). I then look at activities and circle anything that I find interesting. The reason? Not to judge or Google the candidate or something; no, I use those to ask friendly, open-ended questions that make the candidate feel at ease and let him/her talk about something he/she is passionate about. I would much rather ask you about the sports you played and what your favorite memories of that are to see how personable you are than ask about some random fruit fly research that you only did to put a statement that you had done research on your application.

At least some of us when interviewing really, really want you to succeed and want to find ways of giving high scores to the committee. If you want to leave something out, by all means do so--I can't imagine, though, with all of the thousands of interviews and applications that each school receives, that anyone is going to take the time to Google you and see that you played an instrument and question why you didn't talk about it. I'd think about these type of things not so much as "playing the game" of getting in (though it certainly is part of it to show that you're well rounded), but as a way of making you memorable and different from the other thousand students trying to get into the same school who have good grades, good MCAT scores, and "want to help people."

Just my opinion from the interviewer side.

 

[Promethean]

It's not assurance. If people are truly more qualified, and have earned the spot over me, give it to them. Just seen so many times where people who've accomplished less in their life, know far less, etc get ahead and I'm like "what are people thinking?" I have no problem with more qualified people getting ahead of me. That's not my concern.

.

If they get in instead of you, then they were more qualified for the seat they got.

The adcoms know what they are doing, as they build their classes. They have decades of collective experience at it. If they decide that you aren't as good a fit for their class as another person, then they are right about that. Even if that other person lacks your expanded life experience. Statistically, there will be even more impressive candidates than you who do not get seats at each institution. Maybe they had some deficiency in their application that gave the adcoms pause, despite their other strengths. Maybe they felt entitled to a seat based on their own personal rubric of what will make them a good physician and the adcoms were able to sense that.

You said that you think that someone should have done the job before they can judge whether someone else is qualified for it... but you are judging yourself as qualified to be a physician and you haven't been one yet.

Just to be clear, because tone isn't always well conveyed in text: I respect you and your background. I'm not that different and I'm always happy to help anyone who wants to set out on this difficult path. If I level with you, understand it comes from a desire to see you succeed, not to cut you down. That said, cultivate humility. Adcoms can smell a sense of feeling better/more deserving of a chance than others, and it isn't going to serve you if they catch a whiff of it on you.

EDIT: I guess a better and gentler way to say this is to re-state something that I said before: Don't compare yourself to other folks so much. Positively or negatively. Just focus on being the best you can be. That is where all the best rewards are. If you put all your energy into maximizing what you can be / produce, then the results are going to take care of themselves. Any thought spent on whether someone else got a shot that you'd wanted instead is a total waste of your time and attention.

 

[RNtoMD87]

If they get in instead of you, then they were more qualified for the seat they got.

The adcoms know what they are doing, as they build their classes. They have decades of collective experience at it. If they decide that you aren't as good a fit for their class as another person, then they are right about that. Even if that other person lacks your expanded life experience. Statistically, there will be even more impressive candidates than you who do not get seats at each institution. Maybe they had some deficiency in their application that gave the adcoms pause, despite their other strengths. Maybe they felt entitled to a seat based on their own personal rubric of what will make them a good physician and the adcoms were able to sense that.

You said that you think that someone should have done the job before they can judge whether someone else is qualified for it... but you are judging yourself as qualified to be a physician and you haven't been one yet.

Just to be clear, because tone isn't always well conveyed in text: I respect you and your background. I'm not that different and I'm always happy to help anyone who wants to set out on this difficult path. If I level with you, understand it comes from a desire to see you succeed, not to cut you down. That said, cultivate humility. Adcoms can smell a sense of feeling better/more deserving of a chance than others, and it isn't going to serve you if they catch a whiff of it on you.

EDIT: I guess a better and gentler way to say this is to re-state something that I said before: Don't compare yourself to other folks so much. Positively or negatively. Just focus on being the best you can be. That is where all the best rewards are. If you put all your energy into maximizing what you can be / produce, then the results are going to take care of themselves. Any thought spent on whether someone else got a shot that you'd wanted instead is a total waste of your time and attention.

Oh I don't feel like I am definitely qualified to be a physician. I haven't even completed my prereqs or taken the MCAT. It's way too early for that. I just know I would be very angry if say I scored a 515 MCAT, had a 3.9 gpa, with my experienced background and somehow someone with less score, grades, or experiences got in instead.

 

[RNtoMD87]

If they get in instead of you, then they were more qualified for the seat they got.

The adcoms know what they are doing, as they build their classes. They have decades of collective experience at it. If they decide that you aren't as good a fit for their class as another person, then they are right about that. Even if that other person lacks your expanded life experience. Statistically, there will be even more impressive candidates than you who do not get seats at each institution. Maybe they had some deficiency in their application that gave the adcoms pause, despite their other strengths. Maybe they felt entitled to a seat based on their own personal rubric of what will make them a good physician and the adcoms were able to sense that.

You said that you think that someone should have done the job before they can judge whether someone else is qualified for it... but you are judging yourself as qualified to be a physician and you haven't been one yet.

Just to be clear, because tone isn't always well conveyed in text: I respect you and your background. I'm not that different and I'm always happy to help anyone who wants to set out on this difficult path. If I level with you, understand it comes from a desire to see you succeed, not to cut you down. That said, cultivate humility. Adcoms can smell a sense of feeling better/more deserving of a chance than others, and it isn't going to serve you if they catch a whiff of it on you.

EDIT: I guess a better and gentler way to say this is to re-state something that I said before: Don't compare yourself to other folks so much. Positively or negatively. Just focus on being the best you can be. That is where all the best rewards are. If you put all your energy into maximizing what you can be / produce, then the results are going to take care of themselves. Any thought spent on whether someone else got a shot that you'd wanted instead is a total waste of your time and attention.

This appeals to the pragmatist in me.

 

[Promethean]

Oh I don't feel like I am definitely qualified to be a physician. I haven't even completed my prereqs or taken the MCAT. It's way too early for that. I just know I would be very angry if say I scored a 515 MCAT, had a 3.9 gpa, with my experienced background and somehow someone with less score, grades, or experiences got in instead.

Medical students are not a set of numbers and scored ECs. How you present yourself at the interview. The quality of your communication in your personal statement. Your reason for wanting to do this thing... your story that you tell them. WHEN you interview! If you come in at the beginning of the interview season with a mediocre application and a great story vs a stellar applicant on paper who just doesn't wow them enough to get one of the last remaining seats late in the cycle. There are so many factors.

This appeals to the pragmatist in me.

Sweet! Then you get what I'm getting at... and pragmatism is a very handy trait in medicine.

 

[Microbug]

There's a hobbies section on the ERAS (residency) app. I felt the same way. It doesn't end here for you.

I wish there wasn't a game to play, but you have to play to win.

Pretty sure ppl have left it blank and still matched

 

[RNtoMD87]

Medical students are not a set of numbers and scored ECs. How you present yourself at the interview. The quality of your communication in your personal statement. Your reason for wanting to do this thing... your story that you tell them. WHEN you interview! If you come in at the beginning of the interview season with a mediocre application and a great story vs a stellar applicant on paper who just doesn't wow them enough to get one of the last remaining seats late in the cycle. There are so many factors.



Sweet! Then you get what I'm getting at... and pragmatism is a very handy trait in medicine.

This actually made more sense of the process than anything I've ever read. It's like with relationships. The chemistry. I want to know a woman has a good career and background, but most important is how I feel about her.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oh I don't feel like I am definitely qualified to be a physician. I haven't even completed my prereqs or taken the MCAT. It's way too early for that. I just know I would be very angry if say I scored a 515 MCAT, had a 3.9 gpa, with my experienced background and somehow someone with less score, grades, or experiences got in instead.

If you have solid scores and ECs, and you don’t get in, it’s because of you not the adcoms (eg, bad interviewer, poor school list, etc).

 

[getdown]

If you think the premed game is harsh I can't imagine how you'll deal with medical school and residency. YOu think you're social life is limited now? Come back and talk to me when you're pulling 90 hours a week in the surgical ICU. You don't like the premed game? You can get out of it.

 

[Goro]

But somehow clinical work does not count for clinical volunteering even though it's the same if not more intense experience?

Hold the phone! Clinical work experience = clinical volunteering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, work experience itself is a good thing.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Hold the phone! Clinical work experience = clinical volunteering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, work experience itself is a good thing.

Okay! That makes more sense, I thought it was like "oh you're a RN, okay but what volunteering did you do with patients?

Goro since you're an adcom member- I am currently interning doing autopsies and also assisting teaching a diabetes prevention class at the YMCA. What would be your thoughts on these?

 

[Goro]

Okay! That makes more sense, I thought it was like "oh you're a RN, okay but what volunteering did you do with patients?

Goro since you're an adcom member- I am currently interning doing autopsies and also assisting teaching a diabetes prevention class at the YMCA. What would be your thoughts on these?

Very novel and bound to set you apart

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But somehow clinical work does not count for clinical volunteering even though it's the same if not more intense experience?

Okay! That makes more sense, I thought it was like "oh you're a RN, okay but what volunteering did you do with patients?

Goro since you're an adcom member- I am currently interning doing autopsies and also assisting teaching a diabetes prevention class at the YMCA. What would be your thoughts on these?

I had 3+ years of clinical work experience and had a grand total of 0 clinical volunteering hours (I did have lots of non-clinical volunteering though). My work experience was brought up in a positive light in every interview I went to, and my n=5. Your experience will be a big plus to your application.

 

[21Rush12]

Strong 2 year necrobump going here

 

[shortcoatdream15]

The rat race demands that you sell yourself as a rare and special commodity

 

[IlDestriero]

[QUOTE="LoveBeingHuman🙂, post: 17492002, member: 723294]

What I want to ask is, how does one balance both impressing adcoms and enjoying college life?[/QUOTE]

You stop worrying about it.
You know what you need to do, so do it.
Work on balance and you’ll be fine.
Just like with the market and your portfolio, check quarterly or so to make sure you’re on track and rebalance as necessary.
And keep on moving along.



--
Il Destriero

 

[altblue]

Lol, I haven't had that many dates and I don't party much anymore, so I'm definitely aware of the sacrifices. And I wouldn't mind doing both of those things more. At the same time, medicine by virtue of how hard it is to get in and how hard it is to train, requires sacrifices. If it didn't, medicine wouldn't be relatively prestigious either.

Even if one doesn't feel like jumping through hoops, they should still be able to make time for hobbies and what they enjoy. There are plenty of hours in the week for it. And it'll help keep them sane.