UQ-Ochsner 2022 Cohort

[Wolvvs]

You are posting misinformation. See the data in the document I linked aboce. The class started with 131 students. Why did you think there were only 102?

That number came from a webinar. The numbers in this document seem to be a bit inconsistent: in one place it says 131 started 2017, in another it says 122. I'm not sure which is correct. I think my number was the number of students who took Step 1, so didn't account for any attrition during the first two years, so you're right, my number was wrong. Attrition during the first two years will be above average because some students do apply to and get accepted to US medical schools during this time, but it's impossible to say how many did that vs failed out.

I don't really care about professor vs lecturer, so I'm sorry if I misspoke. But it's not like they have a special curriculum for Ochsner students. UQ is one of the top medical schools in Australia. If you think the entire Australian training system is somehow broken, then I really can't argue that, but the whole point of this program is to train across two different medical systems. The systems are different, and you do need to put in the extra work to make sure you're learning what you need to learn for the board exams, but to say they're completely incompatible is a bit hyperbolic. Grading policies are pretty clear, it's all in the ECP. For HSR, where all assignments are subjectively graded, things can feel a bit arbitrary, but for clinical science it's all multiple choice exams.

I think the correct number is 122, and with the 88 you're ignoring those who decided to stay in Australia or the couple students who didn't match successfully. But just taking your numbers at face value, that's 2/3 of students who made it to the end and matched. That's not luck, and that's definitely not inferior to Caribbean attrition. And the quality of matches is much better coming from Ochsner. I think there are good arguments to be made for trying to strengthen your application and reapply to US schools, but Caribbean schools are absolutely not a better option.

I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say after you graduate.

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[medhopefullz]

I'm not sure if the attrition is a big deal now- since it has been quite some years since this program has been established. It is understandably more difficult to get into Ochsner than say Caribbean or etc. So more likely than not- students may have secured MD /DO seat while at UQ and left. I have been struggling with one aspect of this program though. I'm grateful that Ochsner did fantastic even after the DO-MD merger thing, where again it was expected the international students would take a hit. But, now Step 1 is pass-fail for the 2022 cohort, and Step 2-CS is discontinued. This makes things uncertain for IMG students- USMLE step 1 pass/fail: The impact on international medical graduates. Your only hope is Step-2 CK exam. So I thought about this a little while and found out that away-rotations would make residency applications stand out - but the 4th year requirement makes you do an "away rotation" at Australia. Won't one get jet-lagged/finding housing/financial burden etc.? Let say you still are committed to do an away rotation in USA. Although possible, but 1) it needs prior approval and then again - finding housing/financial burden etc. So, I'm little confused about the mandatory Australia away rotation.

How do you guys think residencies view an away rotation at UQ? Would they bias in favor of you understand the practice at USA health care practice than Australia (personally I'm unsure what the big difference here is- both countries make good doctors and have high ethical standards)

Also how realistically possible is it to do another away rotation in USA following one at UQ?

I had another question tied to this which was doing research. But, I found the answer on their UQ website. I was wondering if it is possible doing clinical research in 3rd year. I'm assuming its very difficult since you are practicing for Boards and prepping for Step 2 CK. So, likely do research in UQ and then take a MS 1 extra year if you want to do that through MPhil.

 

[Laetare]

Ignore the cheerleaders on this forum who think that a lecturer and professor are the same thing

A lecturer in Australia is equivalent to an assistant professor in North America and a professor is equivalent to a so-called full professor. Academic ranks (Australia and New Zealand) - Wikipedia

 

[mcat_taker]

I'm not sure if the attrition is a big deal now- since it has been quite some years since this program has been established. It is understandably more difficult to get into Ochsner than say Caribbean or etc. So more likely than not- students may have secured MD /DO seat while at UQ and left. I have been struggling with one aspect of this program though. I'm grateful that Ochsner did fantastic even after the DO-MD merger thing, where again it was expected the international students would take a hit. But, now Step 1 is pass-fail for the 2022 cohort, and Step 2-CS is discontinued. This makes things uncertain for IMG students- USMLE step 1 pass/fail: The impact on international medical graduates. Your only hope is Step-2 CK exam. So I thought about this a little while and found out that away-rotations would make residency applications stand out - but the 4th year requirement makes you do an "away rotation" at Australia. Won't one get jet-lagged/finding housing/financial burden etc.? Let say you still are committed to do an away rotation in USA. Although possible, but 1) it needs prior approval and then again - finding housing/financial burden etc. So, I'm little confused about the mandatory Australia away rotation.

How do you guys think residencies view an away rotation at UQ? Would they bias in favor of you understand the practice at USA health care practice than Australia (personally I'm unsure what the big difference here is- both countries make good doctors and have high ethical standards)

Also how realistically possible is it to do another away rotation in USA following one at UQ?

I had another question tied to this which was doing research. But, I found the answer on their UQ website. I was wondering if it is possible doing clinical research in 3rd year. I'm assuming its very difficult since you are practicing for Boards and prepping for Step 2 CK. So, likely do research in UQ and then take a MS 1 extra year if you want to do that through MPhil.

-No one knows exactly how step 1 going pass fail will affect IMGs since it hasn't happened yet. All we have to go on is just assumptions.

You can do any of your 4th year rotations in Australia. It's required to just do 1 (a 6 week rotation- generally its treated as an Australian vacation). Generally people choose a rotation that has little to do with their residency choice and do that one in Australia since it doesn't matter. The only thing you need to get out of 4th year rotations is letters of recommendation for residency.

As a concrete example say you are planning on applying EM: You would opt to do your 4th year EM rotation in the U.S. and your 4th year elective in EM in the U.S. to get letters and then do something like medical specialities, or the anesthesia/ICU/opthalmalogy block in Australia since it has nothing to do with your speciality and you wont need letters from that rotation.

Ochsner admin is really good at helping you maneuver your 4th year schedule to set you up for residency success. Especially people that needed aways in surgery or EM.

It doesn't matter how residencies view an away rotation at UQ. It's just a school requirement to do 1 rotation back in Australia. You spent the majority of phase 2 in the U.S. they won't be too concerned about you spending 1 rotation back in Australia. You can still do away rotations in the U.S. independently of the rotation back at UQ.

Away rotations aren't necessary in all fields. Just surgery, EM, surgical specialties, usually are the fields people do aways in. The elective in 4th year allows you to do anything you need.

 

[Wolvvs]

The plan for South Australia to allow international students in has been approved by the federal government: International students arrival plan approved by the Commonwealth

That won't affect UQ yet, but that does mean the federal government is willing to support small numbers of international student arrivals, and medical students will be at the top of that list. Hopefully whatever Queensland has in mind will pan out soon as well.

 

[medhopefullz]

The plan for South Australia to allow international students in has been approved by the federal government: International students arrival plan approved by the Commonwealth

That won't affect UQ yet, but that does mean the federal government is willing to support small numbers of international student arrivals, and medical students will be at the top of that list. Hopefully whatever Queensland has in mind will pan out soon as well.

OMG! Thank you for sharing this!

 

[Damson]

plans for other states should also start getting approved
chances are we get in before 2021 ends

 

[RadsNola]

Latest international student news via Skynews Australia!

Vaccinated international students could enter Australia under new 'traffic light' border system

Under the “green light, red light” international border system, fully vaccinated individuals who pose no health risk will be allowed into the country, said reports.

www.studyinternational.com

 

[zvmau]

Hi Everyone! I came across this program pretty late but i'm seriously considering it. If anyone knows the answers to these, it would be much appreciated:
1) I've taken the mcat more than once, do they request all MCAT scores or just whatever you send in?
2) Is it too late in the game to apply for the Feb '22 cohort?
For background, I am a 2x reapplicant for US MD schools w/a 3.4 gpa from undergrad and 3.8 gpa from my masters program.
Thanks yall!

 

[TUWEST_509]

Hi Everyone! I came across this program pretty late but i'm seriously considering it. If anyone knows the answers to these, it would be much appreciated:
1) I've taken the mcat more than once, do they request all MCAT scores or just whatever you send in?
2) Is it too late in the game to apply for the Feb '22 cohort?
For background, I am a 2x reapplicant for US MD schools w/a 3.4 gpa from undergrad and 3.8 gpa from my masters program.
Thanks yall!

It is definitely not too late to apply. The class is still not full and they'll be interviewing applicants up until October.

They'll ask for your full MCAT exam report which includes all scores from your previous attempts, but they will only use your highest score when making a decision. The cut off for an interview is a 504 so as long as one of your scores is at or above that you should be fine.

The application process was pretty easy. It doesn't take too long to complete. The interview is in MMI format so I'd suggest practicing for it with a friend before your interview date. They weigh your interview performance heavily when making a decision. Your GPA is solid so as long as you meet the MCAT requirement and do well on the interview you will most likely get in. Good luck!

 

[Wolvvs]

Hi Everyone! I came across this program pretty late but i'm seriously considering it. If anyone knows the answers to these, it would be much appreciated:
1) I've taken the mcat more than once, do they request all MCAT scores or just whatever you send in?
2) Is it too late in the game to apply for the Feb '22 cohort?
For background, I am a 2x reapplicant for US MD schools w/a 3.4 gpa from undergrad and 3.8 gpa from my masters program.
Thanks yall!

I'd recommend applying ASAP. It can take some time for them to process transcripts so getting those going as soon as you can would be best. They consider the GPA from your most recent degree and I think they do the same with the MCAT. As long as you get all the materials in and get an interview before the class fills (and don't completely bomb the interview ) you should get accepted.

 

[zvmau]

It is definitely not too late to apply. The class is still not full and they'll be interviewing applicants up until October.

They'll ask for your full MCAT exam report which includes all scores from your previous attempts, but they will only use your highest score when making a decision. The cut off for an interview is a 504 so as long as one of your scores is at or above that you should be fine.

The application process was pretty easy. It doesn't take too long to complete. The interview is in MMI format so I'd suggest practicing for it with a friend before your interview date. They weigh your interview performance heavily when making a decision. Your GPA is solid so as long as you meet the MCAT requirement and do well on the interview you will most likely get in. Good luck!

I'd recommend applying ASAP. It can take some time for them to process transcripts so getting those going as soon as you can would be best. They consider the GPA from your most recent degree and I think they do the same with the MCAT. As long as you get all the materials in and get an interview before the class fills (and don't completely bomb the interview ) you should get accepted.

Thank you both! Another question, my mcat scores might be expired based on the 3 year cut off for this program. I am slated to retake it soon. Does anyone know if this program is handing out conditional offers of acceptance, just as they did last cycle?

 

[Wolvvs]

That's probably worth sending an email to them to ask.

 

[RadsNola]

Thank you both! Another question, my mcat scores might be expired based on the 3 year cut off for this program. I am slated to retake it soon. Does anyone know if this program is handing out conditional offers of acceptance, just as they did last cycle?

Spots are conditional in that even if you are accepted, there has to be space in the class for you to actually enroll and attend. They’re also conditional on you finishing whatever degree you’re working on, if you are in school when you are applying. I think you may also need a valid MCAT to get an interview.

 

[hathi10]

Anyone know what UQ-O thinks of students who re-apply to their program? I'm currently working on applications for US MD and DO programs, and I likely won't know what the results will be until May of next year. However, I interviewed with UQ-O and don't know if I was accepted or not. Suppose I were accepted and I had to reject the offer to wait for this cycle to pan out, will that affect my chances of being accepted if I re-apply to UQ-O in November?

 

[medhopefullz]

Is there an accepted students Facebook group or group-me for us to join? I think it's bit too early but hopefully we can get to know each other come December/January!

 

[Achnologiast]

Yeah, there''s a FB group "UQ-Ochsner Class of 2025".

 

[mcat_taker]

Anyone know what UQ-O thinks of students who re-apply to their program? I'm currently working on applications for US MD and DO programs, and I likely won't know what the results will be until May of next year. However, I interviewed with UQ-O and don't know if I was accepted or not. Suppose I were accepted and I had to reject the offer to wait for this cycle to pan out, will that affect my chances of being accepted if I re-apply to UQ-O in November?

If you are competitive for MD/ DO schools you'll likely be accepted to UQO. Re-applicants are not viewed any differently in Australia. They are very straight forward with what they evaluate in terms of GPA/MCAT/interview and I doubt they even keep track of how many times someone applies.

 

[Wolvvs]

Anyone know what UQ-O thinks of students who re-apply to their program? I'm currently working on applications for US MD and DO programs, and I likely won't know what the results will be until May of next year. However, I interviewed with UQ-O and don't know if I was accepted or not. Suppose I were accepted and I had to reject the offer to wait for this cycle to pan out, will that affect my chances of being accepted if I re-apply to UQ-O in November?

Also in last year's thread someone did mention they had to reapply the following cycle after turning down an acceptance for some reason and they had no problem getting in.

Just to clarify though, are you asking about reapplying this November, as in the same cycle, to start January 2022? If you're accepted but want to wait to see how the MD cycle goes, that's fine, you can accept your offer and put down the deposit and just wait. If you feel like you've got good USMD prospects/get an acceptance, you could then turn down the UQ-Ochsner offer. As long as you do so at least 21 days before the scheduled start date, you will get your deposit back -$1000 cancellation charge.

I would not recommend turning down an offer and reapplying later this year as it's likely the class will be full/that they're going to wonder what's going on and may not give you an interview.

 

[hathi10]

Also in last year's thread someone did mention they had to reapply the following cycle after turning down an acceptance for some reason and they had no problem getting in.

Just to clarify though, are you asking about reapplying this November, as in the same cycle, to start January 2022? If you're accepted but want to wait to see how the MD cycle goes, that's fine, you can accept your offer and put down the deposit and just wait. If you feel like you've got good USMD prospects/get an acceptance, you could then turn down the UQ-Ochsner offer. As long as you do so at least 21 days before the scheduled start date, you will get your deposit back -$1000 cancellation charge.

I would not recommend turning down an offer and reapplying later this year as it's likely the class will be full/that they're going to wonder what's going on and may not give you an interview.

I meant re-applying for the next cycle in January 2023. My impression was that applying in November '21 would be for a Jan. '23 start date. Is that not the case?

I did not know about the refund policy, that's good to know. Yeah I figure I'll want to see how the results of this cycle turn out for me, as I'm currently working on secondaries for US MD/DO schools.

 

[Wolvvs]

I meant re-applying for the next cycle in January 2023. My impression was that applying in November '21 would be for a Jan. '23 start date. Is that not the case?

I did not know about the refund policy, that's good to know. Yeah I figure I'll want to see how the results of this cycle turn out for me, as I'm currently working on secondaries for US MD/DO schools.

Yes you're right, sorry for the confusion! Good luck with your US school applications

 

[blue_penguin]

Accepted today, still taking it all in just wanted to shoot an update.

 

[doodlecat1999]

Same so excited! Just accepted the offer!

 

[Wombat12]

Accepted today as well!

 

[ImgonnabeHokage]

Anyone know where exactly to upload the results of the background check?

 

[Wolvvs]

Anyone know where exactly to upload the results of the background check?

Not sure if it's going to be different for your year, but my class had to upload them to Blackboard so you may need to wait until you have access

 

[ImgonnabeHokage]

Not sure if it's going to be different for your year, but my class had to upload them to Blackboard so you may need to wait until you have access

ok thanks!

 

[ilikewaffles]

Has anyone turned down their offers? If so, why?

 

[TUWEST_509]

Has anyone turned down their offers? If so, why?

I haven't turned down my offer.. But I am still trying to decide if I should go here or accept the DO school offer I received instead. If covid weren't an issue I'd definitely choose UQ, but since there is so much uncertainty right now about the border situation and the new delta varient it definitely makes things harder.

I think the main reason why some people turn down there acceptance here is because they get into a US MD school. That decision is a no brainer if you ultimately want to practice medicine in the US. The harder decision is picking this program over a DO school. Most students who end up going to this program are able to get into US DO schools but choose not to go for various reasons. I don't think this school would put me at a significant disadvantage when it comes time to apply for residency ( unlike other IMG programs) but then again I don't know what the match process will look like 4 years from now or how the p/f step one will effect us. Many might see DO school as a safer option and opt to go that route instead. The global pandemic complicates things further.

Ultimately it's up to the individual and how much risk they're willing to take. Truly motivated students will end up matching eventually regardless of where the go to med school, but the difference will be in how hard they'll have to work for it when compared to US MD students.

 

[abpos]

Has anyone turned down their offers? If so, why?

The only reason I would have chosen not to accept my offer is if I got into a US MD school (which did not happen). I am fortunate to have a financial situation where the USD3000 to hold my seat is not an issue.

There are a lot of considerations going into this and a lot of implications for my future. ymmv, so please don’t take anything I say personally…just my unvarnished opinion.
Some people would have turned down the offer for a US DO school as well. It is a reasonable decision for people that insist on staying stateside:

• Overall DO match rates to US residencies are great
• Staying closer to family/friends
• Likely not a huge culture shift
• Same academic calendar year

I preferred UQ to DO schools, though my reasons are a matter of perspective/circumstances:

• My interests now are not in traditionally competitive specialties, but they have not been in primary care fields. DO schools largely output students who choose primary care residencies. UQ Ochsner has a lower percentage of students who selected family practice or primary care residencies. I didn’t count peds or internal med because those students’ goals may not be definitively primary care focused.
• The DO route may be harder! On top of the additional OMM courses, DO students also take a second board exam (COMLEX). That would spread me out thinner, even if much of the knowledge is redundant.
• The DO vs MD degree discussion is a longstanding and sensitive topic. After the ACGME merger, there are DOs in many programs with MDs and many DO school programs continue to favor DO grads. However, at least some MD residencies continue to prefer MD graduates, have never selected DO students though they have selected IMG students. I have heard a program director state that DO would preclude most students from his residency. It’s possible that residency programs discriminate between the “right” kind of international schools/grads but that line can vary between specialties, schools, and program directors.
• After graduation, my degree will stay with me. DO grads are as much physicians as any MD grad. However, they face scrutiny from some patients in ways that MD grads do not. I am sure there are some patients who will have trouble with a foreign medical grad, but Australia is usually a more “comfortable” kind of foreign for Americans.

There are also reasons why I looked favorably upon UQ-Ochsner in general, despite some concerns that I continue to carry:

• Reserved clinical rotation hospital/clinic in the US. We have a reputable, permanent clinical site at the largest hospital system in the gulf South. A well known clinical site is probably neutral/good for residency application; I easily picked UQO over any other foreign school.
• UQ is globally ranks between #40-50 on many lists and UQ med school ranks around #50. This is a real university with resources and research, probably better than any US MD where I applied. Ochsner is a huge health system that is well known regionally and nationally. It’s true that rankings aren’t everything and American program directors may not know/care about #50 global rankings. However, these are the kinds of programs that will probably insist on US MD grads anyway.
• Attrition rates are not as transparent from the school as I would prefer. This is a statistic I have to fish for at any school. It is most definitely lower attrition than other international schools but probably at least a little higher than US schools. I suspect the attrition is due to an exacerbation of med student stresses (homesickness, culture shock, nontraditional student stresses, etc) and also some rigidity in the UQ curriculum for Ochsner students. By the numbers, a vast majority of UQO students graduate and attain a residency. The only things I can control are to be self aware and not afraid to ask for help, make sure now that I am certain about going into medicine, generally be a responsible student, and to be kind to myself and others on both good days and bad.
• UQO has matched well, at least comparable to US DO and some low tier US MD schools. It seems like part of it is that Ochsner takes some of its students, but not to the degree that US schools do. There is a lot of hard work and luck, but I am content with this opportunity.
• Even though USMLE 1 will be pass/fail for us, USMLE 2 CK will continue to be scored numerically and I expect this will be the new measuring stick.
• We graduate a few months earlier than US students because we start a few months earlier. I could use the time after graduation to travel or work. This is time that US students can only have by staying another year and delaying residency.
• UQ med has a VERY large class size, but the Ochsner cohort is normal sized in comparison to the average US med school. We interact in small group sessions while in Brisbane.
• Cost is expensive, but on par with US DO and private/out of state US MD schools.
• NOLA and Brisbane are very cool if they ever let us in Australia I would overwhelmingly prefer to be in person, so I could get clinical exposure and skills learning just as our Australian classmates.

tldr; No, I accepted my offer right away. I would only have turned down my offer for a US MD school. If I turn out to be a decent med student, going to UQO over a very low ranked US MD might not affect where I end up for “non-competitive” residencies.

 

[ilikewaffles]

Thank you all for the responses! All very helpful. This is unrelated but - do you think med schools will require vaccinations prior to starting?

 

[medhopefullz]

Thank you all for the responses! All very helpful. This is unrelated but - do you think med schools will require vaccinations prior to starting?

I think so! But in general, to get a VISA - you might be required to get vaccinated? I'd go for UQO over DO for variety of reasons (international experience, incredible research facility available to you, premier institution UQ and Ochsner- one of the largest hospital systems and ranking high in Neuro etc, as well as living environment such as Brisbane). Also although USMLE Step 1 is P/F, that's ok since for phase 2 we'd be in US doing our clinical education so we should be fine! I think students in MD and DO will need to do a lot more to stand out if they have mostly P/F - such as research. UQ offers rural experience, international experiences that can diversify a resident applicant- it makes you well rounded and more importantly you can chose your passion and bring an world-perspective to the resident adcoms. I'm really hoping they open the borders, does anyone know the status! Anyway, that's my take

 

[Wolvvs]

I'm really hoping they open the borders, does anyone know the status!

Latest on this is that because of the current lockdowns, international student arrival plans are kind of on hold, but a plan has been submitted for Queensland and the hope is that it will be approved around when the lockdowns are lifted. It will probably be for small numbers of students, but students in the Doctor of Medicine program will be scheduled to arrive first, and then other students requiring placements like those in nursing or other allied health professional programs. As supply finally ramps up and vaccination rates increase over the next few months, the hope is that thing will be able to open up a bit more generally. The government is still committing to vaccinating everyone by the end of this year but they have allowed that to slide in the past.

Overall things are still kind of crazy at the moment, but I think there's a decent chance your class will be able to start in-person, and even if not I hope you'll be able to make it over not too long after.

 

[RadsNola]

Thank you all for the responses! All very helpful. This is unrelated but - do you think med schools will require vaccinations prior to starting?

There’s a form that has to be filled out by your doctor proving immunity to Hep B, HIV, TB, and other diseases that would be bad to bring into a hospital environment. I haven’t seen anything from the Australian government mandating covid vaccines for international students, but I’m not sure they could do that given low supply in other countries.

 

[Intenslikcampin]

Hey all, congrats to those who were accepted! I'm a current 2nd year at UQO and I wanted to make myself available to answer questions about the program. Overall, my experience has been very positive despite the general medical education stresses and the everchanging COVID-19 situation. I also came to Australia with my partner so if anyone has questions about that aspect of the relocation process (hopefully international travel opens up again soon), feel free to ask!

 

[Achnologiast]

Can you talk more about the housing/transportation/food/internet/homesickness being across the country ? Thanks!

 

[Intenslikcampin]

Can you talk more about the housing/transportation/food/internet/homesickness being across the country ? Thanks!

First year, most Ochsners live near St. Lucia, West End, or South Brisbane because they have easy bus access to the St. Lucia campus where most of your year 1 in person classes will be. In general, anything near a 66 bus rout stop will give you good access to the UQ campuses and any hospital you might have a class at.

Food isn't hard to find. Most areas of the city have a supermarket (ether Coles or Woolies) that is comparable to a medium sized supermarket in the US and it has anything you might need. There is a Costco about a 50 min drive away that people sometimes go to if they have a car or a friend drive them. There are some pretty awesome restaurants and bars too if you take the time to walk around and explore the city.

I haven't seen friends or family in person for almost a year and a half because of COVID restrictions and that has been tough to deal with at times. It helps having my partner here with me and I have found it easy to make friends with other people in the program, you'll easily find people or groups that have similar interests. Internet speeds are pretty fast in the city (I pay for a 50 mbps plan that is pretty affordable) and I can videochat with friends and family from back home with no problems.

Hope that helps!

 

[Intenslikcampin]

Someone asked about my transition to Australia so I'll just post that part of my response for others:

The transition wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, probably because my partner was with me to help. Finding an apartment was a little stressful at first because we didn't know if landlords would consider international students but we got a recommendation via a second year and it worked out fine. We were able to move to a new place start of second year pretty easily because we had a good recommendation from our first landlord (we wanted to check out a different part of the city and I wanted to move closer to the hospital I was assigned to). Setting up a bank wasn't too bad, made a US Charles Schwab to withdraw money for no fee and we have an Australia account we deposit into and use to pay bills. We use a chase sapphire reserve credit card for everything else and by now we have enough points to pay for one of our flights back home.

 

[blue_penguin]

Can you talk more about the housing/transportation/food/internet/homesickness being across the country ? Thanks!

Curious to hear about anyone who went to UQ alone like I am hopefully when borders open. What was the experience like being in the other side of the world and not knowing anyone? Does school just take over I assume?

 

[maybeoz]

Latest on this is that because of the current lockdowns, international student arrival plans are kind of on hold, but a plan has been submitted for Queensland and the hope is that it will be approved around when the lockdowns are lifted. It will probably be for small numbers of students, but students in the Doctor of Medicine program will be scheduled to arrive first, and then other students requiring placements like those in nursing or other allied health professional programs. As supply finally ramps up and vaccination rates increase over the next few months, the hope is that thing will be able to open up a bit more generally. The government is still committing to vaccinating everyone by the end of this year but they have allowed that to slide in the past.

Overall things are still kind of crazy at the moment, but I think there's a decent chance your class will be able to start in-person, and even if not I hope you'll be able to make it over not too long after.

Hi Wolvvs
Thanks for the info. Can you please provide the source of the information in your comment? How do you know students in a doctor of medicine program would be the first arrivals?

 

[Wolvvs]

Hi Wolvvs
Thanks for the info. Can you please provide the source of the information in your comment? How do you know students in a doctor of medicine program would be the first arrivals?

This is from what the school has told us. It seems that prioritization for the international student arrival plan will be up to the individual university, each can determine how they want to use their allocated spots. UQ confirmed in their latest webinar with offshore students that medical students are the top priority for the international student arrival plan, and they confirmed in their follow-up/summary email, but it's an internal policy/decision on a continually evolving issue so I don't think there's an official news source or publicly available policy document I could point you to unfortunately. If you did want to confirm it for yourself, I'd recommend emailing the school directly, they should be able to help!

Again this is all kind of up in the air and depends on when the situation in Australia gets under control as well as what the government wants to do, so it's not really predictable and we've seen plans get delayed before.

 

[maybeoz]

This is from what the school has told us. It seems that prioritization for the international student arrival plan will be up to the individual university, each can determine how they want to use their allocated spots. UQ confirmed in their latest webinar with offshore students that medical students are the top priority for the international student arrival plan, and they confirmed in their follow-up/summary email, but it's an internal policy/decision on a continually evolving issue so I don't think there's an official news source or publicly available policy document I could point you to unfortunately. If you did want to confirm it for yourself, I'd recommend emailing the school directly, they should be able to help!

Again this is all kind of up in the air and depends on when the situation in Australia gets under control as well as what the government wants to do, so it's not really predictable and we've seen plans get delayed before.

Thanks Wolvvs! This helped.

 

[Flowerzandstuff]

I strongly disagree on this (of course this is my opinion and my situation, and will vary depending on the person). As someone who has a partner who won't be able to go over to Australia, I'm actually really happy to be attending online. I don't get the sense that we're missing out on anything that onshore students have available--as I've said before, I feel like this program really works best for those who work and learn best independently. There's no dissections but they do have actual specimens, so the biggest difference is really seeing those specimens live or seeing pictures of them.

But yeah to your other points, that's a bit concerning. My biggest worry is how they're going to deal with the logistics, especially 3rd and 4th year, if a large portion of our class has to defer. (My class has about 5 people in Australia right now, so it's kind of funny to imagine a class of 5 followed by a class of 200.) I think they'll figure it out, but I do think you all should keep this in the back of your mind, especially if you're weighing against a DO acceptance.

Is there any news about people deferring? Has UQ offered any guidance about potentially having a class with 200 students? Is it not possible for students to do the first two years exclusively online? What happens if the borders don’t open in 2022? If borders do not reopen, does that mean Ochsner will have a year without a graduating class?

 

[RadsNola]

Is there any news about people deferring? Has UQ offered any guidance about potentially having a class with 200 students? Is it not possible for students to do the first two years exclusively online? What happens if the borders don’t open in 2022? If borders do not reopen, does that mean Ochsner will have a year without a graduating class?

According to the website, you can’t defer. The current first year class is online still with roughly 100 students. You probably can’t defer for this exact reason, because there would be a year with no graduating class.

 

[Wolvvs]

According to the website, you can’t defer. The current first year class is online still with roughly 100 students. You probably can’t defer for this exact reason, because there would be a year with no graduating class.

They did offer the option to defer right before semester 2 started actually, but I don't think that many people took them up on it. There's a small number of students who really wanted the experience of being in Brisbane and did choose to defer but most students didn't since our goal is really just to become doctors ASAP

@Flowerzandstuff, a lot of people have those same questions and we know they're planning for contingencies but are not willing to make their work public or problem-solve with the class. There's a balance of priorities: the border restrictions and politics with the Australian state and federal governments, compliance with the Australian Medical Council, the ability to teach online and amount of investment into that required, compromises they may be able to make if it comes down to it but don't want to make unless they have to.

At this point I would be very surprised if they couldn't leverage the updated guidance allowing second year med students to apply for an individual exemption, but that wouldn't work until the end of the year or early next year and they really want to get us in before that. I think as we get closer to the end of the year, if there's no progress made on the international student arrival plan, I think we'll hear more about other options. Because of all the points you've brought up, having everyone defer would be a worst case scenario both for students and the school, and I think they'll do whatever they can to avoid that, but yeah there really aren't clear answers unfortunately.

 

[Flowerzandstuff]

They did offer the option to defer right before semester 2 started actually, but I don't think that many people took them up on it. There's a small number of students who really wanted the experience of being in Brisbane and did choose to defer but most students didn't since our goal is really just to become doctors ASAP

@Flowerzandstuff, a lot of people have those same questions and we know they're planning for contingencies but are not willing to make their work public or problem-solve with the class. There's a balance of priorities: the border restrictions and politics with the Australian state and federal governments, compliance with the Australian Medical Council, the ability to teach online and amount of investment into that required, compromises they may be able to make if it comes down to it but don't want to make unless they have to.

At this point I would be very surprised if they couldn't leverage the updated guidance allowing second year med students to apply for an individual exemption, but that wouldn't work until the end of the year or early next year and they really want to get us in before that. I think as we get closer to the end of the year, if there's no progress made on the international student arrival plan, I think we'll hear more about other options. Because of all the points you've brought up, having everyone defer would be a worst case scenario both for students and the school, and I think they'll do whatever they can to avoid that, but yeah there really aren't clear answers unfortunately.

Are there courses in the curriculum that must be taken in person in Australia during certain semesters for UQ-O students? Are you personally confident that UQ-O will be able to grant you your MD within the normal 4 years?

 

[Wolvvs]

Are there courses in the curriculum that must be taken in person in Australia during certain semesters for UQ-O students? Are you personally confident that UQ-O will be able to grant you your MD within the normal 4 years?

Ideally all courses would be in person, although it's more relevant for some than for others. Learning how to take a blood pressure, for example, can't really be done online, which is why there's the push to get us there ASAP. There are also placements in Australian hospitals, particularly during year 2, that can't be done online. I don't think the entire course could be done online unless they decide to amend the rules around what's done when.

I'm optimistic they'll be able to figure things out, but I don't think I could guarantee it--between the governments and AMC accreditation, there's too much that's potentially out of the school's hands.

 

[Flowerzandstuff]

Ideally all courses would be in person, although it's more relevant for some than for others. Learning how to take a blood pressure, for example, can't really be done online, which is why there's the push to get us there ASAP. There are also placements in Australian hospitals, particularly during year 2, that can't be done online. I don't think the entire course could be done online unless they decide to amend the rules around what's done when.

I'm optimistic they'll be able to figure things out, but I don't think I could guarantee it--between the governments and AMC accreditation, there's too much that's potentially out of the school's hands.

@Wolvvs have you applied for a visa? Is UQO recommending that upcoming second year students apply for visas with the final three years of medical school exemption? Do you know if UQO is recommending upcoming first year students to apply for visas without exemptions?

 

[Wolvvs]

@Wolvvs have you applied for a visa? Is UQO recommending that upcoming second year students apply for visas with the final three years of medical school exemption? Do you know if UQO is recommending upcoming first year students to apply for visas without exemptions?

Everyone starting next year should be applying for student visas now or at least very soon. The visa and exemptions are entirely separate, having a visa does not allow you to enter the country without an approved exemption, and you must have a visa first before your can apply for an exemption. The Department of Home Affairs is continuing to grant student visas even though the border is closed. It's important to apply for a visa early because if the borders do open, there will be a large number of applications all at once and there will probably be delays.

To answer your first question, I and (hopefully) everyone else in my class already have student visas, we just don't have approved exemptions to the border restrictions.

 

[Damson]

@Wolvvs have you applied for a visa? Is UQO recommending that upcoming second year students apply for visas with the final three years of medical school exemption? Do you know if UQO is recommending upcoming first year students to apply for visas without exemptions?

once acceptance is in hand, always apply for the visa, exemption or no exemption