US News 2015 rankings

[Amba]

US News medical school rankings. Taboo subject, I know. But new rankings apparently come out Tuesday, and they will undoubtedly be discussed, so we may as well have a thread for it.

Preview was posted a couple days ago:

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...aduate-schools-preview-top-10-medical-schools

Of note, Pritzker and Michigan are out of the top ten, and Washington is back in. More interesting is that they managed to make their top 10 a true top 10 this year.

Have at it SDN.

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[pyrrion89]

We can play predictions.
1. Harvard
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Penn
4. Stanford
5. UCSF
6. WashU
7. Yale
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. UWash

 

[Lucca]

Nothing too crazy going on here. I'm calling Harvard 1 Johns Hopkins 2 like the past decade. I hope Stanford is 3 <3

Edit:

In light of above poster triggering my gambling addiction:

1. Harvard
2. John Hopkins
3. Stanford
4. Penn
5. UCSF
6. Wash U
7. Yale
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. UWash

 

[aspirantmed]

Ugh. Why does US News continue to bother with the primary care rankings, anyway? Nobody really pays any attention to them. Of course, that's not to say the research rankings are constructed 'fairly' anyway, but putting research and primary care rankings side by side incorrectly suggests that (a) they're equally valid ways of ranking medical schools (and are regarded as such), and (b) that medicine can be classified as a this-or-that dichotomy between research and primary care.

 

[Sophocles]

I wonder how many people have changed the schools they apply to due to these rankings

 

[solitarius]

As convenient groupings of schools, these rankings are useful as long as one doesn't get obsessed about the exact ordering or #5 vs #8 vs #13.

 

[SilentSoldier]

Ugh. Why does US News continue to bother with the primary care rankings, anyway? Nobody really pays any attention to them. Of course, that's not to say the research rankings are constructed 'fairly' anyway, but putting research and primary care rankings side by side incorrectly suggests that (a) they're equally valid ways of ranking medical schools (and are regarded as such), and (b) that medicine can be classified as a this-or-that dichotomy between research and primary care.

There are those of us that may have a preference for schools with a focus on community health / underserved communities / primary care and I guess those rankings could give us some info on how large a focus those things are for the schools. Of course nothing beats actually researching the schools and their affiliated hospitals, and asking clarifying questions at interviews to see where the schools priorities lie, but its a nice start.

 

[aspirantmed]

I wonder how many people have changed the schools they apply to due to these rankings

"Oh, I only apply to top 10 schools. Goodbye, Pritzker, and hello, UW .."

 

[pyrrion89]

Food for thought:
Via anastomosed blog:

• Stanford and Pritzker have skyrocketed in rankings
• Cornell has an opposite trajectory
• Pritzker's ranking fluctuates a lot
• Harvard and JHU rather static at 1 and 2 respectively

 

[TreadLightly]

Ugh. Why does US News continue to bother with the primary care rankings, anyway? Nobody really pays any attention to them. Of course, that's not to say the research rankings are constructed 'fairly' anyway, but putting research and primary care rankings side by side incorrectly suggests that (a) they're equally valid ways of ranking medical schools (and are regarded as such), and (b) that medicine can be classified as a this-or-that dichotomy between research and primary care.

Who's to say that you can rank schools based on any type of classification? Research and primary care are just two ways of ordering them and they will continue to make these lists because they always have...

 

[Lucca]

Who's to say that you can rank schools based on any type of classification? Research and primary care are just two ways of ordering them and they will continue to make these lists because they always have...

If only they were separated into categories relevant to the majority of the premed population.

Categories like:

Money
Chicks
Power
Chicks

 

[medicalhope]

I'm always amused that many schools flaunt their ranking, especially when they are arbitrary and change so much. I keep seeing the US News banners on hospitals, and while they might make the patients feel better... it just seems kinda pretentious.

 

[pyrrion89]

If only they were separated into categories relevant to the majority of the premed population.

Categories like:

Money
Chicks
Power
Chicks

Imagine if USNWR did a face average of medical students for each school, then showed the average face... for science.
http://faceresearch.org/demos/average

 

[aspirantmed]

Food for thought:
Via anastomosed blog:

• Stanford and Pritzker have skyrocketed in rankings
• Cornell has an opposite trajectory
• Pritzker's ranking fluctuates a lot
• Harvard and JHU rather static at 1 and 2 respectively

Not so sure I'd characterize Stanford as skyrocketing, or Cornell as 'falling' - it seems that beyond Harvard and Hopkins, it's not uncommon for these schools to fluctuate up/down by 2-3 or as many as 5-6 spots within a several-year cycle. Heck, if Chicago dropped from 16 to 22 over 10 years but then went from 22 to 8 in the next 10, who's to really say where it may go in the next decade? Similarly, it's interesting that Yale keeps bouncing around from 3 to 11, mostly hanging around 7-9 ..

If anything I'd say that these more or less resemble a random walk, and that this just shows that all of these schools are relatively 'static.' If anything, I do think it is evident that these schools seem to form a 'tier' that is relatively stable, even as they shift amongst themselves. From this, I'd conclude that if you're trying to make a decision between any schools that are even 5-10 ranks apart, you're deciding between more or less equivalent schools that could very easily trade spots in the rankings by the time you're a licensed physician.

 

[dbeast]

 

[TreadLightly]

Imagine if USNWR did a face average of medical students for each school, then showed the average face... for science.
http://faceresearch.org/demos/average

This is the only ranking that would matter to me. I don't think I'm joking either

 

[alpinism]

That time of year again.

Feels like just yesterday when the last one came out...

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Imagine if USNWR did a face average of medical students for each school, then showed the average face... for science.
http://faceresearch.org/demos/average

Woooo, some of these faces look pretty scary. This is a great way to see what your kids might look like.

 

[MedWonk]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

 

[Lucca]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

If Liberty gets in the top 10 I will not go into medicine. True story.

EDIT: I will also eat a poop hot dog.
EDIT 2: I would rather go Carib than go to Liberty.
EDIT 3: Liberty sucks.
EDIT 4: Yah but seriously, how is that school even remotely legal.

 

[knv2u]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

#10 doesn't even have full accreditation.

 

[TreadLightly]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

Ummm Stanford >Ross?? No.

Liberty should be #2, JHU is old news

 

[MedWonk]

#10 doesn't even have full accreditation.

Which is exactly why the naturopathic school came out ahead. At least that one is fully accredited. In what, I don't know, but it's in something.

 

[Euxox]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

The sad thing is that if this were actually to happen, there would probably be a ten-fold increase in applications to Ross, SGU, and Liberty.

 

[Lucca]

The sad thing is that if this were actually to happen, there would probably be a ten-fold increase in applications to Ross, SGU, and Liberty.

With the amount Ross steals from children charges for tuition and for the disgusting rates Liberty charges its students to shove a massive evangelical stick up their ass for disobeying the code of conduct it would be feasible for those schools to just pay US News to do it.

 

[TreadLightly]

With the amount Ross steals from children charges for tuition and for the disgusting rates Liberty charges its students to shove a massive evangelical stick up their ass for disobeying the code of conduct it would be feasible for those schools to just pay US News to do it.

 

[Lord Osis]

No Stewart Med? Pfft, I don't buy.

 

[Syndicate]

Approximately what time will they be released?

 

[Reckoner]

Approximately what time will they be released?

+1000!!! The size of my e-peen hinges on these rankings guise

 

[Sophocles]

US News medical school rankings. Taboo subject, I know. But new rankings apparently come out tomorrow, and they will undoubtedly be discussed, so we may as well have a thread for it.

Preview was posted yesterday:

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes...aduate-schools-preview-top-10-medical-schools

Of note, Pritzker and Michigan are out of the top ten, and Washington is back in. More interesting is that they managed to make their top 10 a true top 10 this year.

Have at it SDN.

I guess they're coming out tomorrow the 11 not today.

 

[Amba]

I guess they're coming out tomorrow the 11 not today.

Good call. Late night reading fail.

 

[Patros]

The legends spoke of the day the Dark Lord in Mordor Boston would be overthrown. That day, when a shining hero clad in the armor of research and the sword of primary care would smite that fell power and cast it down from its dark throne. From where will this hero arise? Perhaps the sunny lands of Philadelphia, or the grimy landscape of Baltimore, or mayhaps even the scorched lands of Palo Alto. Will tomorrow be that day? The challenge is great for the dark powers of Boston are fearsome, but hope shines softly in the darkness.

Edit: Nevermind, rankings are out. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here. Maybe next year!

 

[T3ckFr3s]

The legends spoke of the day the Dark Lord in Mordor Boston would be overthrown. That day, when a shining hero clad in the armor of research and the sword of primary care would smite that fell power and cast it down from its dark throne. From where will this hero arise? Perhaps the sunny lands of Philadelphia, or the grimy landscape of Baltimore, or mayhaps even the scorched lands of Palo Alto. Will tomorrow be that day? The challenge is great for the dark powers of Boston are fearsome, but hope shines softly in the darkness.

Reminds me of the opening to The Stick of Truth. Just finished it last night haha

 

[Syndicate]

The legends spoke of the day the Dark Lord in Mordor Boston would be overthrown. That day, when a shining hero clad in the armor of research and the sword of primary care would smite that fell power and cast it down from its dark throne. From where will this hero arise? Perhaps the sunny lands of Philadelphia, or the grimy landscape of Baltimore, or mayhaps even the scorched lands of Palo Alto. Will tomorrow be that day? The challenge is great for the dark powers of Boston are fearsome, but hope shines softly in the darkness.

Well USNews already released it's top 10, and the top 4 are
1. Columbia
2. Duke
3. Harvard
4. Hopkins

 

[Reckoner]

The legends spoke of the day the Dark Lord in Mordor Boston would be overthrown. That day, when a shining hero clad in the armor of research and the sword of primary care would smite that fell power and cast it down from its dark throne. From where will this hero arise? Perhaps the sunny lands of Philadelphia, or the grimy landscape of Baltimore, or mayhaps even the scorched lands of Palo Alto. Will tomorrow be that day? The challenge is great for the dark powers of Boston are fearsome, but hope shines softly in the darkness.

One Rank to rule them all, One Site to find them,
One Report to bring them all and on pre-allo bind them

 

[Lucca]

Well USNews already released it's top 10, and the top 4 are
1. Columbia
2. Duke
3. Harvard
4. Hopkins

*ahem* they were in alphabetical order not numerical.

 

[No Limits]

Well USNews already released it's top 10, and the top 4 are
1. Columbia
2. Duke
3. Harvard
4. Hopkins

They are in alphabetical order

Edit: @Lucca beat me to it

 

[hubriz]

*ahem* they were in alphabetical order not numerical.

What a coincidence!

 

[Syndicate]

Yea, I didn't realize it was in alphabetical order. My mistake.

But to everyone here mocking the USNWR rankings, why are you so hypocritical? If you don't care about it, then why look at it? It's like porn; everyone mocks the people in the videos but everyone watches it. Personally, I am grateful that US News gathers the data and uses their "equation" to compile a ranking of the medical schools. Since they've been doing this for over a decade, that means they've obviously been pretty successful and people are reading/using the list.

 

[CarlosDanger]

If my school doesn't move up 10 spots, US News rankings are pointless.

 

[hubriz]

Yea, I didn't realize it was in alphabetical order. My mistake.

But to everyone here mocking the USNWR rankings, why are you so hypocritical? If you don't care about it, then why look at it? It's like porn; everyone mocks the people in the videos but everyone watches it. Personally, I am grateful that US News gathers the data and uses their "equation" to compile a ranking of the medical schools. Since they've been doing this for over a decade, that means they've obviously been pretty successful and people are reading/using the list.

 

[Lucca]

Yea, I didn't realize it was in alphabetical order. My mistake.

But to everyone here mocking the USNWR rankings, why are you so hypocritical? If you don't care about it, then why look at it? It's like porn; everyone mocks the people in the videos but everyone watches it. Personally, I am grateful that US News gathers the data and uses their "equation" to compile a ranking of the medical schools. Since they've been doing this for over a decade, that means they've obviously been pretty successful and people are reading/using the list.

It's a fun novelty; like porn in small amounts, the indulgence of institutional elitism feeds the same animalistic sense of distant admitation that we fulfill by gawking at celebrities, observing virtuosos, geniuses, professional athletes. I don't think they are utterly pointless. If you are a 99th percentile candidate and would like to know which schools have the most resources, specifically for conducting research, and promise the best results then the US News rankings are exactly what you need. For most people it just doesn't matter since they are either:

A) Not planning on having a career in research.
B) Not strong enough applicants to have the luxury to worry about prestihe.


And in the vast majority of cases...

C) Know that not every school is for every student and they are better off conducting their own research to see what school lines up the most closely with their goals and has the means to achieve them.

 

[Donald Kimball]

I actually like the US News data because they show number of acceptances given versus number of interviews given at each school. Is this data being updated or just the rankings?

 

[hubriz]

It's a fun novelty; like porn in small amounts, the indulgence of institutional elitism feeds the same animalistic sense of distant admitation that we fulfill by gawking at celebrities, observing virtuosos, geniuses, professional athletes. I don't think they are utterly pointless. If you are a 99th percentile candidate and would like to know which schools have the most resources, specifically for conducting research, and promise the best results then the US News rankings are exactly what you need. For most people it just doesn't matter since they are either:

A) Not planning on having a career in research.
B) Not strong enough applicants to have the luxury to worry about prestihe.


And in the vast majority of cases...

C) Know that not every school is for every student and they are better off conducting their own research to see what school lines up the most closely with their goals and has the means to achieve them.

I was thinking "Word of the Day!" when I saw "admitation". I soon realized (after trying to define the term) that you meant admiration.

You owe me a word of the day.

 

[knv2u]

Yea, I didn't realize it was in alphabetical order. My mistake.

But to everyone here mocking the USNWR rankings, why are you so hypocritical? If you don't care about it, then why look at it? It's like porn; everyone mocks the people in the videos but everyone watches it. Personally, I am grateful that US News gathers the data and uses their "equation" to compile a ranking of the medical schools. Since they've been doing this for over a decade, that means they've obviously been pretty successful and people are reading/using the list.

Not true; bad analogy.

 

[Euxox]

But to everyone here mocking the USNWR rankings, why are you so hypocritical? If you don't care about it, then why look at it?

USN&WR rankings are useful, but the way that some premeds interpret them is ridiculous. For example, in the 2012 rankings, Stanford came in 11th. This past year it was 2nd. Is Stanford any better now than it was two years ago? No. But many applicants seemed to think so: Stanford's yield shot through the roof over the past two years. (Just look at the over-enrollment problems they had with the current MS1 class.) Similar things happened to Pritzker and Michigan when they hit the top ten, and now that they have fallen out of the top ten, they will be receiving much fewer applications than they have over the past three or four years. The MCAT and GPA of their average matriculant will fall back down after multiple years of growth.

There is no difference between the rank 9 school and the rank 11 or 12 school, but many people seem to think differently. There is also no temporal difference between a school that ranked 15th last year and ranks 5th this year, but many people seem to think differently. That is the problem with USN&WR.

 

[juliuspepperwood]

I want to see who slides into the depths of "not ranked"

 

[touchpause13]

1) Harvard
2) JHU
3) AT Stills
4) PCOM
5) Stanford
6) Ross
7) SGU
8) Wash U
9) NCNM
10) Liberty

Booyah. Can't lose.

And I'm dead.

 

[Lucca]

I was thinking "Word of the Day!" when I saw "admitation". I soon realized (after trying to define the term) that you meant admiration.

You owe me a word of the day.

 

[Syndicate]

USN&WR rankings are useful, but the way that some premeds interpret them is ridiculous. For example, in the 2012 rankings, Stanford came in 11th. This past year it was 2nd. Is Stanford any better now than it was two years ago? No. But many applicants seemed to think so: Stanford's yield shot through the roof over the past two years. (Just look at the over-enrollment problems they had with the current MS1 class.) Similar things happened to Pritzker and Michigan when they hit the top ten, and now that they have fallen out of the top ten, they will be receiving much fewer applications than they have over the past three or four years. The MCAT and GPA of their average matriculant will fall back down after multiple years of growth.

There is no difference between the rank 9 school and the rank 11 or 12 school, but many people seem to think differently. There is also no temporal difference between a school that ranked 15th last year and ranks 5th this year, but many people seem to think differently. That is the problem with USN&WR.

Yea, that's true. But generally speaking, USNWR gets it right for the most part. For instance, the number 5 school is going to be better than the number 25 school; likewise with number 35 vs number 55 and so on..