I believe that it is in the loan promissory notes now. The caveat being that I’m not sure how feasible it is for dentists to find stable employment at a nonprofit. Physicians can usually just do academic medicine or work at a non profit hospital. Are there many nonprofit in denistry? I’m not sure.
It’s probably the same (or cheaper) if you share an apartment with several roommates and split the rent and utility bills with them. I shared a 2 bed 2 bath apt with 4 roommates and I paid around $250 a month. That was 20+ years ago. With the current rent rate, it would probably cost each person around $700-800 a month now. It’s only 10 minute walk to the dental school….so no need to pay for a car + car maintenance + car insurance + ridiculously expensive parking permit. With a pair of earplugs that helped block out all the distraction noise, I didn’t have any problem with sleeping and studying.
I’m also fairly certain the interest rate on federal student loans is tied to the 10 year treasury yield. Since that’s going up, expect higher interest rates on loans starting next year.
The one thing that I would add, regardless of the reality that the country is likely going into a recession(and arguably is already in even if the defined criteria hasn't officially been met yet), is that in the now closing in on 25 years I have been practicing, I honestly can't recall which number recession/economic slowdown period this will be. The country and you will get through it. You will be able to adapt to the challenges that it will bring, and then it will get better, all to just repeat itself again in another cycle in the years after that.
Makes me glad I'm graduating next year...
The alternative option is to decline the dental school acceptance offer and find a job. Not sure what job one can get with a BS degree in Bio/Biochem.
This is a vintage Charles statement. Do you think the younger generation today work as hard as our generation (The 40 to 55 yr old dentists)? I think gig economy made people more lazy in general, specially over the last couple of decades… they became too reliant on tech based convenient world; using apps, social media, digital economy, etc. I think hard work might be a foreign concept to some of them. Just an observation, not to imply all young adults are lazy.
I don’t know what the younger generation think and want. But one thing I know for sure is that in order for them to have the same nice things that I’ve enjoyed, they will have to work many times harder than me because they owe more in student loans than me….they will face stiffer competition (due to the opening of new dental schools)….they have less purchasing power (due to inflation) etc. I could easily get by with working 2 days/week as an associate ortho. Nobody pointed a gun in my head and made me work 6 days/wk. It’s completely voluntary. Life is too short. I didn’t want to wait until I am in my 60s-70s to save enough to get myself a nice 7-series or S-class….. I wanted to drive them ASAP; therefore, I chose to work 6 days/week. Having an average lifestyle is not acceptable because that would be a complete waste of my valuable degree (an ortho certificate) that I had spent 11 years to earn….I want to maximize the benefits of being an orthodontist.
I think technology has made things more expensive for the younger generation and thus, they have to work harder to pay for these toys….less purchasing power for them. When I went to school, I took lecture notes on a $1 notebook. Now, every student has to buy a laptop....and have to replace it when it breaks. At my office, I still use paper charts. Now, most of my colleagues use digital charts, which require a lot of $$$ and time to maintain. There were no cell phones, no internet when I went to school. Most cars didn’t have airbags...only the luxury ones had them. Now, every car has airbags, which cost more to make. The convenience of technology comes at a cost.
Not just dental schools. All schools raise their tuitions. Today new grad doctors, pharmacists, nurses, PAs, engineers, teachers etc. all have higher student loan debts than the previous generation. And they have to go to schools because a lot of good paying jobs require people to have a college degree. I feel really bad for the younger generation.
That’s the reward for their hard work in college. Getting accepted to med schools is extremely hard, especially if you are an asian male. Having good GPA and MCAT scores is not enough. In other words, being book smart is not enough......it's enough for dental schools but not for med schools. You have to do research and do other extracurricular activities, which require a lot of time and effort. I hope my son gets accepted to med school so I won’t have pay a lot in tuitions. LOL.
In exchange for this “inconvenience” of having to be physically present in the office, we, dentists, get paid a lot more than many of the folks who work at home. IMO, this is a good thing. Doctor patient relationship is very important in dentistry. This is why private dental practices continue to thrive and will never be completely taken over by big corp offices like what you see in pharmacy and optometry.
www.studentloanplanner.com
Why do young people think this is possible?
Because they never worked a real job that requires them to consider real responsibilities..
Imagine going through all of this graduate education to then just work part time. In my opinion that's just a disservice to patients. Someone who is willing to work full time for their community could have been in their spot.
No, the money just feels fake. This system is so insane our government loans any amount out to any 18 year old for any degree. Moreover, our government just gave 40 billion dollars for the Ukraine when people here could desperately use that money and continues to print money like nothing. It's really really hard to take the system seriously at this point.
I agree. I think too often dentistry attracts a type of individual who is too interested in their own preferences. The mentors I've looked up to throughout my career have been the ones that go the extra mile and consider their patients. I'm not saying anyone should be forced to do anything, but I think it's a cultural problem in dentistry.
I guess they think that making $120k/year (by working part time) is a lot of money because they used to live on a budget of less than $30-40k/year when they were in med/dental schools. When they were kids, their parents only made half as much ($50-60k a year) and they were able to live comfortably. What these young people don’t realize is their parents didn’t have any student loans to pay back. And everything was much cheaper 15-20 years ago.
That’s a great insight story. I used the read a lot of SDN and dental town posts while I was in DS and learnt a lot from other people’s experiences when financial crisis hit the economy.
Yes, I completely agree, hence why I'm always steering pre-dents away from expensive dental schools. I'm just saying it psychologically feels fake and meaningless today, especially when people can use programs like PAYE or IBR and pay the minimum each month. Add this how our government just prints money and hands out money like it's nothing, it makes it hard for some to take it seriously in the short term. I actually overheard someone with 6 figure undergrad debt saying they weren't going to pay off their loans because they just figured it'd be forgiven eventually. Unless forgiving loans somehow enriches Raytheon, I don't see that happening.
Loan forgiveness also becomes meaningless if the systems stay in place that allow people to go into 6 figure debt in the first place. If anything, it incentivizes schools to raise prices more as students will just assume loans will be forgiven.
Agree 100%, but again ...... what is the solution? More bailouts? More printed/borrowed money? Seems like history keeps repeating itself.
If anything, it feels like our government is purposefully trying to hurt us and make us dependent on them.
Congress almost refuses to make the tough decisions that they are supposed to which is why for decades now policy and law has been dictated through executive branch policy and case law, meanwhile congress primarily pushes through useless feel good laws and giant omnibus bills written by special interest.
Don’t forget the “summer of love”
It’s because the government tries to do too much. The government would function well if it focused on its legitimate functions instead of trying to sort out peoples life affairs.
I’d much rather have one party controlling the executive branch and the opposing party controlling the legislative branch. I’d rather live in a country that has a weak government. A strong government equals a weak nation. The government is supposed to be afraid of it's people and not the other way around. A do-nothing congress is better than an actively-do-harm congress. The president can bypass the congress by issuing executive orders. If people don’t like his actions, they will vote him out of the office on the next election. And the next president can undo all the previous administration’s orders.
This.
When you graduated you were able to afford a 5,400 square foot house in southern california on an orthodontist salary??? Wow, times have changed. Today's new grad orthodontists would struggle to be able to afford a 1,400 square foot house in southern California..
No, my first house was only 2552 sf. I bought it for 400k in 2001. Two years later, when I got a significant raise in salary from my new job, I sold it and upgraded to a 4300sf house. Two years later, I sold this 2nd house and upgraded to 5400 sf house. Now, I live in a 3960sf house, which is only a mile from my former 5400sf house.
Idk man Somalia is a Libertarian's paradise but I'd rather live in authoritarian Russia than there.
Scalp psoriasis is the inevitable conclusion of this thread
You may be on to something here. Having $750,000 in student loans from attending USC dental would give someone unbelievable stress. This toxic stress would alter one’s immune system. This altered immune system function could lead to a psoriatic response. Well played, @m1lesss.
