USN class of 2013

[RXsocal]

For all those already accepted to USN class of 2013, can you post your stats (gpa and PCAT) if you don't mind. You may also private message me if you'd like. Thanks a lot! I will greatly appreciate it.

I am wondering because this is the first year the PCAT is required. Past GPA averaged were around 3.7. I assume GPA averages are down this year since the PCAT score is required. Anyways, looking forward to some of your posts

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[mrblah]

I'm glad my post brought out all of USN's nuthuggers. USN isn't fair. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt, I offer you another viewpoint to what this school offers, or doesn't. To those being interviewed, go out of your way and find a p2 to talk to, I bet you you can't. they schedule your interview when there are NO p2's on campus, ironic isn't it?? I don't care for the nuthuggers or p1's, most of you p1's are living in a dream world, which is the same world I lived in last year. Wait til you get to your p2 year, things will change.

As for Jorvig and the appealment process, my comments stand, see my blog for more info.

 

[farmmacy]

Hi guys ... do you know anything about the pcat? What score would they consider good or acceptable? I had an interview on Nov and i'm wondering how many seats do they save for that first interview? Let me know if you guys hear or know anything. Thanks

 

[AnhPhung310]

Does anyone know they send the interview invitation before they received the PCAT score? I sent my application couple weeks ago but my Oct PCAT scores haven't arrived yet.

 

[JEW UNIT]

Does anyone know they send the interview invitation before they received the PCAT score? I sent my application couple weeks ago but my Oct PCAT scores haven't arrived yet.

I think my brother told me that they wait for the PCAT this year...He's a P1 there.

 

[diastole]

I'm glad my post brought out all of USN's nuthuggers. USN isn't fair. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt, I offer you another viewpoint to what this school offers, or doesn't. To those being interviewed, go out of your way and find a p2 to talk to, I bet you you can't. they schedule your interview when there are NO p2's on campus, ironic isn't it?? I don't care for the nuthuggers or p1's, most of you p1's are living in a dream world, which is the same world I lived in last year. Wait til you get to your p2 year, things will change.

As for Jorvig and the appealment process, my comments stand, see my blog for more info.

Do people ever get past Jorvig to the committee during an appeal?

 

[mrblah]

diastole: most people don't get it past jorvig, maybe 10 percent make it to the committee. He threw out the majority of the appeals for the last cardio exam. Last time I checked only 1 person got their appeals to the committee. The rest got sent to the trash can.

Anyways, here is a interesting blog someone sent to me, feel free to read it, its from a upperclassman, obviously the poster will remain annonymous:

I turned down a highly prestigious pharmacy school to attend USN based on what they had to say for themselves and the extremely positive interview experience I had at USN. Now I am doing everything I can (up to and including being excluded from the yearbook) to disassociate myself from this institution.

In addition to the terrible faculty we have paid for (Dr R on the Utah campus is the only competent teacher. The rest stand there and read their PowerPoint slides), and the complete lack of student support documented above – my concerns are in how we move forward in our careers.

With the block system as they have it set up, there is no possible way to actually internalize the information. It is fully binge & purge learning. This was not a problem during our P1 year, when we were reviewing pre-requisite coursework. But during our P2 year – where we are covering disease state management – it is a huge concern. In granting our diplomas, USN is essentially stating that we KNOW the information. We do not. We have purged it from short-term memory to learn something else. How can I ethically state that I am able to assist patients in a clinical environment under those conditions?

In addition to the inability to move the information into long-term memory, we are not even given ALL the information we should be. Looking at what we are given, versus that information given to students in other pharmacy programs, we are missing vital pieces. Our Dean actually ADMITTED that the school is not providing an appropriate amount of information for us to be effective, safe pharmacists.

The system, as it is currently practiced, is giving us nothing more than 2 years of practice in cramming information into our heads in order to pass the NAPLEX. This explains the high numbers of passing students produced by USN. We are excellent test takers. And, in my opinion, absolutely dangerous clinicians.

One of my friends is taking Creighton's online pharmacy didactic program. She forwards copies of all her material to me. That is the ONLY reason I feel like I will be prepared to function as a pharmacist after I license – because I am learning from a DIFFERENT school.

I believe that the USN administrators know it. Here is why I think so. Refusing to provide grades on our transcripts after we have earned our 90% pass has two effects. First, it forces us to remain at USN after we have discovered just how terrible they are (nothing transfers, so we lose our money AND have to start over fresh at another school). Second, without grades it is extremely difficult to get a residency. As it is getting harder to get a clinical pharmacist position without a residency, I believe that it helps the USN administrators to sleep at night knowing that the bulk of us will be retail pharmacists with a computer system to "back up" our insufficient knowledge.

Lastly, if USN believed that they were an adequate teaching institution, they would not harp at us every time we were being reviewed by one of the accreditation or licensing agencies. Have any of the other schools you've attended sent out multiple emails warning the student body that their school was under review and advising you to be on your best behavior? Outside of USN have you ever had the Dean of the college standing in your classroom saying "I'm not asking you to lie to the auditors, but keep in mind that if we don't pass the audit, you won't be able to get your license?" In other words, all you students will lose your time and money – and have to start over elsewhere.

Seriously, if you are considering investing in a pharmacy school, choose a good one. Avoid USN.


By the way, there are positive things about USN, and there are great professors. However, there are more lousy professors than good ones. At this point, most of us p2's can't see past the negatives. Which reminds me, i can't wait for christmas break, which was cut short to 2 weeks this year (2 FREAKING WEEKS....faculty decided we were living life to grand apparently).

 

[Pharmco]

Mr Blah,
Thanks for your info. I had a friend who withdrew from your class. Had 3 no pass and decided they'd be better off with that than risk "flunking" % on tests taken (I think he/she took 14-16 tests) was 87%--now that's just crazy that 87% isn't good enough. This former student is a hard worker and pretty damn smart. I was told there was no retention of the material and that his/her rotation pharmacist laughed at some of the things they were teaching students was plain wrong. I was also told by this student that your class has lost A LOT of students and that contrary to USN's website stating only a few withdraw and VERY few withdraw due to academics. This student told me that that's pretty much a lie. Because of this, I've decided to pass on USN even if I'm not accepted anywhere else. I'm still applying elsewhere. I suspect the USN's will fall by the wayside as the market becomes more stable and the shortage is lessened. On a positive side this student liked the block system but not the # of instructors that were involved as it was difficult to know what was really important and what was just BS. A 4 year block system with lower standards would be better he/she thought. 90% is just off the wall, plus those stuggling struggled more when team pts weren't given on mondays. catch 22 I guess. Good luck the rest of the year.

Oh BTW those posting how GREAT USN is are new to the forum. hmmmmmmmmm

diastole: most people don't get it past jorvig, maybe 10 percent make it to the committee. He threw out the majority of the appeals for the last cardio exam. Last time I checked only 1 person got their appeals to the committee. The rest got sent to the trash can.

Anyways, here is a interesting blog someone sent to me, feel free to read it, its from a upperclassman, obviously the poster will remain annonymous:

I turned down a highly prestigious pharmacy school to attend USN based on what they had to say for themselves and the extremely positive interview experience I had at USN. Now I am doing everything I can (up to and including being excluded from the yearbook) to disassociate myself from this institution.

In addition to the terrible faculty we have paid for (Dr R on the Utah campus is the only competent teacher. The rest stand there and read their PowerPoint slides), and the complete lack of student support documented above – my concerns are in how we move forward in our careers.

With the block system as they have it set up, there is no possible way to actually internalize the information. It is fully binge & purge learning. This was not a problem during our P1 year, when we were reviewing pre-requisite coursework. But during our P2 year – where we are covering disease state management – it is a huge concern. In granting our diplomas, USN is essentially stating that we KNOW the information. We do not. We have purged it from short-term memory to learn something else. How can I ethically state that I am able to assist patients in a clinical environment under those conditions?

In addition to the inability to move the information into long-term memory, we are not even given ALL the information we should be. Looking at what we are given, versus that information given to students in other pharmacy programs, we are missing vital pieces. Our Dean actually ADMITTED that the school is not providing an appropriate amount of information for us to be effective, safe pharmacists.

The system, as it is currently practiced, is giving us nothing more than 2 years of practice in cramming information into our heads in order to pass the NAPLEX. This explains the high numbers of passing students produced by USN. We are excellent test takers. And, in my opinion, absolutely dangerous clinicians.

One of my friends is taking Creighton's online pharmacy didactic program. She forwards copies of all her material to me. That is the ONLY reason I feel like I will be prepared to function as a pharmacist after I license – because I am learning from a DIFFERENT school.

I believe that the USN administrators know it. Here is why I think so. Refusing to provide grades on our transcripts after we have earned our 90% pass has two effects. First, it forces us to remain at USN after we have discovered just how terrible they are (nothing transfers, so we lose our money AND have to start over fresh at another school). Second, without grades it is extremely difficult to get a residency. As it is getting harder to get a clinical pharmacist position without a residency, I believe that it helps the USN administrators to sleep at night knowing that the bulk of us will be retail pharmacists with a computer system to "back up" our insufficient knowledge.

Lastly, if USN believed that they were an adequate teaching institution, they would not harp at us every time we were being reviewed by one of the accreditation or licensing agencies. Have any of the other schools you've attended sent out multiple emails warning the student body that their school was under review and advising you to be on your best behavior? Outside of USN have you ever had the Dean of the college standing in your classroom saying "I'm not asking you to lie to the auditors, but keep in mind that if we don't pass the audit, you won't be able to get your license?" In other words, all you students will lose your time and money – and have to start over elsewhere.

Seriously, if you are considering investing in a pharmacy school, choose a good one. Avoid USN.


By the way, there are positive things about USN, and there are great professors. However, there are more lousy professors than good ones. At this point, most of us p2's can't see past the negatives. Which reminds me, i can't wait for christmas break, which was cut short to 2 weeks this year (2 FREAKING WEEKS....faculty decided we were living life to grand apparently).

 

[RXsocal]

mrblah,

I appreciate your time and effort in telling applicants what it feels like to be a student at USN. Many applicants will brush off your claims...but I just wanted to let you know that....you've convinced me. So whether you convince 50 people or just 1 person, I appreciate that you blew the whistle. I will not apply to USN....anymore

 

[cheeseboy2]

this thread is too crazy for me. i second the thoughts of pharmco and rxsocal. props to diastole and mrblah for being frank. i also turned down an interview from usn.

i hope the usn faculty do something to change this! i dont know if id underestimate the power of sdn after this thread haha.

 

[hckyplyr]

Well.....make that three people you've gotten through too. I have my interview scheduled for January, but I'm going to cancel now as well. I interviewed at Pacific and that faculty (and faculty review from the current students P1-P3) was tremendous. Everyone had great things to say. My current P1 friend at USN now says he has never seen the faculty outside of classroom hours. So, I'm not headed to USN for the interview afterall....

 

[Pharmgrlnxdor]

Kind of depressing.

After taking a Chem II class in the 7 week summer session at my school I began to wonder if an accelerated program was really my cup of tea. Yes, I want to get done fast but to pay a lot of money and spend three years to come out of school and be mediocre doesn't really sound that great.

I remember Mr. Blah's positive posts during his P1 year. They were very upbeat and informative. I guess I have noticed that the P2's seem to have a completely different viewpoint. I had heard that P1 year was like undergrad, P2 is brutal, and then P3 is relatively laid back. Having a brutal year doesn't seem that off course since other like careers often have equivalent intense training...I have heard dental school horror stories that rival hazing rituals, and I am sure medical school isn't all roses and sunshine either.

The real question is why is that second year so brutal? Too much information, not enough time, teachers who can't teach, teachers who don't care, unfairness within the system, roadblocks which seem to be set up that guide you toward failure, arbitrary rules, subjective grading? I think it is a sad state of affairs when you can pay a school $20,000 to $40,000 a year per student and they can't even provide a majority of teachers that care enough to teach their subject well and are capable of teaching their subject well.

I too appreciate the frank comments and as a result am probably going to limit my applications to traditional 4 year schools with a solid history of satisfied students.

 

[RXsocal]

We aren't saying 3 year accelerated programs are bad. What the whistle blowers are trying to say is that USN is tough, inconsiderate, and unhelpful as a private institution where students are paying 40k per year. There are many 3 year programs on the west coast that gets good praise...namely UOP, Midwestern CPG, and Pacific in Oregon.

Kind of depressing.

After taking a Chem II class in the 7 week summer session at my school I began to wonder if an accelerated program was really my cup of tea. Yes, I want to get done fast but to pay a lot of money and spend three years to come out of school and be mediocre doesn't really sound that great.

I remember Mr. Blah's positive posts during his P1 year. They were very upbeat and informative. I guess I have noticed that the P2's seem to have a completely different viewpoint. I had heard that P1 year was like undergrad, P2 is brutal, and then P3 is relatively laid back. Having a brutal year doesn't seem that off course since other like careers often have equivalent intense training...I have heard dental school horror stories that rival hazing rituals, and I am sure medical school isn't all roses and sunshine either.

The real question is why is that second year so brutal? Too much information, not enough time, teachers who can't teach, teachers who don't care, unfairness within the system, roadblocks which seem to be set up that guide you toward failure, arbitrary rules, subjective grading? I think it is a sad state of affairs when you can pay a school $20,000 to $40,000 a year per student and they can't even provide a majority of teachers that care enough to teach their subject well and are capable of teaching their subject well.

I too appreciate the frank comments and as a result am probably going to limit my applications to traditional 4 year schools with a solid history of satisfied students.

 

[Pharmgrlnxdor]

Yes, I understand. I didn't think you were bashing three year programs. I agree that they can and are done well. I was just saying that I have determined for myself that they are not in my (and ultimately my patients) best interest.

 

[diastole]

Oh BTW those posting how GREAT USN is are new to the forum. hmmmmmmmmm

I would expect that. There are lots of lurkers here. I've heard people discussing Mr. Blah's posts at school and I'm not sure if they post or not. Those controversial posts tend to motivate people to participate who wouldn't otherwise.

One thing I would caution people to think about when evaluating the information here is to find out if would really be different at another school. Some things may be such as the block system and the length of the program. Other things won't be. Judging from the comments on the pharmacy forums, profs reading from Powerpoint slides is a very common experience. If you are going to pass up a school because of this reason, then you are likely to be dissappointed elsewhere. I wouldn't pass up one school for another without doing your homework on the other schools as well. Every school has it good points and bad points. The trick is figuring out what they are before you make the commitment.

 

[Lucie Lee]

.

 

[gsinccom]

Last year, when I had an interview at USN, there are some P1 students told me that there was a student who has suicided because she was so stressful about the overloaded materials and the pass rate at USN. I need some people verify this information but if it's true, USN is applying a very hard pressure on its students when it requires a 90% pass rate and with a lot of helpless faculties and professors as recently. After reading mr blah's posts, maybe I have to think again about whether I should accept to study at USN or not

There was a student a few years ago at the Nevada campus that took their own life; I seem to remember that they were in the class of 2009 but I'm not sure. Since that time and under advisement from ACPE, USN has ramped up student access to mental health counseling.

I don't know why the student committed suicide but I do know that if you are having a hard time balancing your life then 3 year programs can be pretty tough. You spend more time in class than students in 4 year programs and it is fairly comparable to the amount of time medical students spend in class on a weekly basis. But if you can manage your time wisely, graduating a year early is a great option especially if going to your state pharmacy school program (i.e., less expensive tuition) isn't on your list of options.

 

[Smilescali]

Last year, when I had an interview at USN, there are some P1 students told me that there was a student who has suicided because she was so stressful about the overloaded materials and the pass rate at USN. I need some people verify this information but if it's true, USN is applying a very hard pressure on its students when it requires a 90% pass rate and with a lot of helpless faculties and professors as recently. After reading mr blah's posts, maybe I have to think again about whether I should accept to study at USN or not

I knew this person pretty well that you are referring to and NO that is not the whole story. I would advise you not to believe everything that you hear from people. Especially if they didn't have a personal relationship with that person. I can't believe that you heard that!! The person who told you that has NO IDEA what he/she is talking about!!! NOT EVEN THE RIGHT GENDER!! Please, you should not be spreading rumors of this nature. Thank you...

 

[AutumnCloud]

Hello everyone!

I completely disagree with 'Mr.Blah". I know that the school system is much harder for the 2nd year but it's also expected. If it's going to be easy, everyone will be in this profession already and you don't get that reward of 100K per year. If you put in the effort, I think that everything is do-able. I do have to admit that I had my fair share of remediations but I don't think that it's the school's fault at all. I blamed myself for not studying the subject properly. There shouldn't be any procrastination because the materials are so much harder 2nd year, there's no time to fall behind. If you put in enough effort, I think that it's very much do-able!!! If it's that hard, half the students will drop-out already.

I do agree that there are some professors who aren't all that great in teaching, but it is not professional to go on here and bash about USN like this. If you have so much problems, talk to the school or you have an option to QUIT if you like. The school is not forcing you to be here, you CHOSE the school. By doing these stuff, you're influencing people's decision that could affect their whole future career. I do apologized for being very blunt but this is indeed a subject that needs to STOP. We are all professional students and in a professional field, this is not how you go about handling things like this.

As for all those who have listened and said that you're not going to attend USN, it's a personal choice matter and I highly encouraged everyone to think it through. This is an important matter and you should not let people interfere with your career choice. It's not likely that there's a second chance again especially in this very competitive field. So make a decision that is best for you!!!

Overall, I felt that my decision to attend this school is a correct one and I do love it here. There's not that many schools that can get you out in 3 year. I still dread that Thursday before the exam and I do complained a lot but it's worth sticking through it. If I can do it, I think that everyone in here is capable of passing this program, you just have to put in more efforts.

So goodluck to everyone!!!!

 

[peester]

Thanks for the point of view Autumn. Its great to see that you take responsibility for yourself and your education instead of assigning blame.
Maybe if everyone had your fortitude they would spend more time studying and less time blogging and posting on forums complaining.
Big ups to you!

 

[diastole]

I'm sure Mr. Blah is more than capable of speaking for himself but I'm going to defend him anyway. Last year, he was one of the most visible boosters of USN. He posted a lot, patiently answered questions, and was extremely positive about USN. He was the most visible cheerleader that USN had on the forums. Maybe people aren't aware of this but when you put yourself out there like that, you also get PMs asking for advice, information, and guidance on essays, interview tips, etc. I don't have access to his inbox but I wouldn't be surprised if he put in a lot of time helping people behind the scenes. I'm guessing that he managed to convince people to attend USN or at least apply to the school. I know in my case, he made me think more positively about the school. In fact, Mr. Blah so impressed me that I wanted to follow in his footsteps and help out the future potential students of USN just like he did.

Now he has changed his mind and as far as I'm concerned, he earned the right to voice those concerns. I don't know why it is okay to post such glowing reviews of a school but if you have objections suddenly it is not "professional" to share your opinions. This particular forum isn't for the benefit of students or staff of USN; it is for the pre-pharms. They are making a huge investment in time and money and it is in their best interest to hear both the advantages and disadvantages of a school so they can make an informed decision. Mr. Blah is expressing his views on the negatives. Now he may be disillusioned and possibly biased but his opinions are no less valid than those of us who are happy at the school. The pre-pharms aren't children and are more than capable of hearing both good and bad opinions about a school and deciding for themselves whose information they believe more. We are doing them no favors if we attempt to censor negative viewpoints.

 

[RXsocal]

I believe mrBlah has the right to voice his opinion. More than one of USN's current students have shared his negative view of the school.

In your second paragraph, you basically told mrblah to shut up and suck it up because he chose this school. Well, I would rather be informed about USN now than later...whether it's positive or negative. I wouldn't want to go to USN...only to discover the very same problems that mrblah addressed. So please, AutumnCloud, just because he doesn't share the same opinion as you about USN, don't try to make it a one sided story.

Hello everyone!

I completely disagree with 'Mr.Blah". I know that the school system is much harder for the 2nd year but it's also expected. If it's going to be easy, everyone will be in this profession already and you don't get that reward of 100K per year. If you put in the effort, I think that everything is do-able. I do have to admit that I had my fair share of remediations but I don't think that it's the school's fault at all. I blamed myself for not studying the subject properly. There shouldn't be any procrastination because the materials are so much harder 2nd year, there's no time to fall behind. If you put in enough effort, I think that it's very much do-able!!! If it's that hard, half the students will drop-out already.

I do agree that there are some professors who aren't all that great in teaching, but it is not professional to go on here and bash about USN like this. If you have so much problems, talk to the school or you have an option to QUIT if you like. The school is not forcing you to be here, you CHOSE the school. By doing these stuff, you're influencing people's decision that could affect their whole future career. I do apologized for being very blunt but this is indeed a subject that needs to STOP. We are all professional students and in a professional field, this is not how you go about handling things like this.

As for all those who have listened and said that you're not going to attend USN, it's a personal choice matter and I highly encouraged everyone to think it through. This is an important matter and you should not let people interfere with your career choice. It's not likely that there's a second chance again especially in this very competitive field. So make a decision that is best for you!!!

Overall, I felt that my decision to attend this school is a correct one and I do love it here. There's not that many schools that can get you out in 3 year. I still dread that Thursday before the exam and I do complained a lot but it's worth sticking through it. If I can do it, I think that everyone in here is capable of passing this program, you just have to put in more efforts.

So goodluck to everyone!!!!

 

[biolover]

USN is still my school of choice and I hope to hear from Dr. DeYoung soon.

 

[gsinccom]

I believe mrBlah has the right to voice his opinion.
... AutumnCloud, just because he doesn't share the same opinion as you about USN, don't try to make it a one sided story.

Both Blah and Autumn have the right to voice their opinions but also remember they are just opinions and not a student body wide consensus. Also, I find it interesting, that now that the intensity of the time period has passed, that Blah has backed down from his original stance. For evidence, you will note that on 11-12-09 Blah cut his original 10-26-09 complaint post. (However you can see his original post and responses to it if you scroll down in the thread from 10-27-09 on.)

We aren't saying 3 year accelerated programs are bad. What the whistle blowers are trying to say is that USN is tough, ... There are many 3 year programs on the west coast that gets good praise...namely UOP, Midwestern CPG, and Pacific in Oregon.

All 3 year programs are going to be tough as they are accelerated pharmacy programs. I was accepted to USN and Pacific, the only two schools to which I completely finalized the application process-I began the application process with five schools. Pacific actually patterned their program after USN's program. MCPG and UOP are fine; I just didn't apply there. All programs have their pros/cons.

...I didn't think you were bashing three year programs. I agree that they can and are done well. I was just saying that I have determined for myself that they are not in my (and ultimately my patients) best interest.

Every applicant has a different situation and will decide what is in their best interest as well as that of their patients. Since, applying to my state school wasn't an option I decided that a 3 year program was the way to go.

...that contrary to USN's website stating only a few withdraw and VERY few withdraw due to academics. This student told me that that's pretty much a lie. ...Oh BTW those posting how GREAT USN is are new to the forum.

In August 2007 we had 82 students start in our class. Currently we have 77/78 students. Three students dropped out in the first half of the first year and from what I heard all three had some combination of family issues/not being able to keep up with the pace of the curriculum. One student dropped out in the second half of the first year. I knew this student really well. He was very smart and had gotten by with no remediations while studying less than the average student in our class but because of family/immigration issues he had to withdraw. So we went into P2 year with four people having withdrawn. At the end of P2 year I think we lost one more student who failed too many summer remediations; although I'm not sure if that student was able to get their appeals approved or not so that is why I said 77/78. Regarding that student, they didn't manage their time well as they tried to work practically full-time and also came to class less than half the time. So.... we'll likely graduate 77/78 out of 82 who started. Not too bad, right?

Diastole, Autumn, SmilesCali and myself aren't new to SDN and we all have positive things to say about USN.

...Take what I have to say with a grain of salt...I offer you another viewpoint to what this school offers...

Good advice

I know that the school system is much harder for the 2nd year but it's also expected. .... If you put in the effort, I think that everything is do-able. I do have to admit that I had my fair share of remediations but I don't think that it's the school's fault at all. I blamed myself for not studying the subject properly. There shouldn't be any procrastination because the materials are so much harder 2nd year, there's no time to fall behind. If you put in enough effort, I think that it's very much do-able!!!

...We are all professional students and in a professional field, this is not how you go about handling things like this.

As for all those who have listened and said that you're not going to attend USN, it's a personal choice matter and I highly encouraged everyone to think it through. So make a decision that is best for you!!!

Overall, I felt that my decision to attend this school is a correct one and I do love it here. There's not that many schools that can get you out in 3 year. ...If I can do it, I think that everyone in here is capable of passing this program, you just have to put in more efforts.

So goodluck to everyone!!!!

Some good points here. One note is that I actually found the P1 year to be harder than P2. Another reason to remember that as far as decision strategies are concerned, generalizations and the opinions of one or two people usually aren't the very best when trying to decide what is best for you personally.

The main point of my posting is that everyone needs to look at the big picture. Step back, take a few deep breaths, do some good research and decide what is best for you.

 

[peester]

Anyone who pays for their education has the right to voice their opinion (especially 40Gs/yr)!

 

[Smilescali]

Yes, USN is demanding and yes there are students that do not pass summer remediations, but overall I think that the fail/drop out rate is not excessive compared to other schools. One of my family members is on the board of trustees at UCSD and they have their share of the same complaints from their students regarding the PERCEIVED quality of their faculty and education!!

My experience with USN was mostly positive. I am personal friends with many of the faculty there and I would encourage you all to make your own decisions about the school and not completely rely on the views of others (both positive and negative). Believe me there were a few in my class who thought like Mr Blah and would tell others to stay away. However, many students like myself had wonderful experiences with the faculty there and are glad that they chose to get their Pharm D from USN.

One major thing that I would like to clarify is that USN graduates do not ONLY go into retail. Some of my classmates went on to residencies at places like USC, USCF and Walter Reed. So I really have issues with those who say USN is a retail diploma mill. It is not! It is an accelerated and challenging school that is not for everyone. At times, it was stressful, but I managed to juggle a family, be extremely involved with EC's at the school and actually do well on the tests.

I also wanted to say that personally attacking the faculty in the way that Mr Blah does is unprofessional. He is entitled to his opinions, but come on labeling staff/faculty is too much and his opinions are not shared by the majority of students. For example, it is his opinion the Karla is a racist!! If you were to ask the majority of students at USN what they thought of Karla they would say that she is a doll and a wonderful person!! She is always there when students need her and I KNOW that she cares for the students at USN. I also know that most students absolutely love Dr. R (both USN and Western students) because he is a wonderful educator. I can go on and on...

 

[duocsi2013]

Hello everyone!

I completely disagree with 'Mr.Blah". I know that the school system is much harder for the 2nd year but it's also expected. If it's going to be easy, everyone will be in this profession already and you don't get that reward of 100K per year. If you put in the effort, I think that everything is do-able. I do have to admit that I had my fair share of remediations but I don't think that it's the school's fault at all. I blamed myself for not studying the subject properly. There shouldn't be any procrastination because the materials are so much harder 2nd year, there's no time to fall behind. If you put in enough effort, I think that it's very much do-able!!! If it's that hard, half the students will drop-out already.

I do agree that there are some professors who aren't all that great in teaching, but it is not professional to go on here and bash about USN like this. If you have so much problems, talk to the school or you have an option to QUIT if you like. The school is not forcing you to be here, you CHOSE the school. By doing these stuff, you're influencing people's decision that could affect their whole future career. I do apologized for being very blunt but this is indeed a subject that needs to STOP. We are all professional students and in a professional field, this is not how you go about handling things like this.

As for all those who have listened and said that you're not going to attend USN, it's a personal choice matter and I highly encouraged everyone to think it through. This is an important matter and you should not let people interfere with your career choice. It's not likely that there's a second chance again especially in this very competitive field. So make a decision that is best for you!!!

Overall, I felt that my decision to attend this school is a correct one and I do love it here. There's not that many schools that can get you out in 3 year. I still dread that Thursday before the exam and I do complained a lot but it's worth sticking through it. If I can do it, I think that everyone in here is capable of passing this program, you just have to put in more efforts.

So goodluck to everyone!!!!

I absolutely agree with AutumnCloud. Once you get in this profession, just work hard if you want to get paid off well. If you can't do it, just quit, don't blame others. Don't spread out rumor about the school. That's not professional !!

 

[diastole]

Is quitting really an option if you become disillusioned with a place? A P2 at this point has already invested $60,000 plus living expenses and would walk away with nothing. I don't think you could transfer to another school and receive credit for the previous work so a person would have to start all over with a $60,000 debt to go along with that. Quitting is an option if you're INSANE but most people have to gut it out no matter how much they may hate a place. You can disagree with the message or how it is delivered but telling someone to just up and quit because you don't like what they are saying isn't terribly fair.

 

[Jack555]

Kind of depressing.

After taking a Chem II class in the 7 week summer session at my school I began to wonder if an accelerated program was really my cup of tea. Yes, I want to get done fast but to pay a lot of money and spend three years to come out of school and be mediocre doesn't really sound that great.

I remember Mr. Blah's positive posts during his P1 year. They were very upbeat and informative. I guess I have noticed that the P2's seem to have a completely different viewpoint. I had heard that P1 year was like undergrad, P2 is brutal, and then P3 is relatively laid back. Having a brutal year doesn't seem that off course since other like careers often have equivalent intense training...I have heard dental school horror stories that rival hazing rituals, and I am sure medical school isn't all roses and sunshine either.

The real question is why is that second year so brutal? Too much information, not enough time, teachers who can't teach, teachers who don't care, unfairness within the system, roadblocks which seem to be set up that guide you toward failure, arbitrary rules, subjective grading? I think it is a sad state of affairs when you can pay a school $20,000 to $40,000 a year per student and they can't even provide a majority of teachers that care enough to teach their subject well and are capable of teaching their subject well.

I too appreciate the frank comments and as a result am probably going to limit my applications to traditional 4 year schools with a solid history of satisfied students.

I am a P1 and this year is brutal. absolutely brutal. Undergrad was like playing video games all day compared to USN's P1 year. How the P2 year could be any harder I'll never know. BTW I have passed every test...so far. The 90% is pretty cruel when you have $160,000 debt riding on it. Make the decisions for yourself but there are lots of factors too consider. I think the school is great otherwise but the 90% is killer.

 

[USNCO11]

I AM current USN student.

WOW way to stay updated with your info, future pharmacist. Lets starts with current facts, shall we? So how many students are gone from Class of 2011? Lets see, 15 when I checked and will have to add more once I double check few others.

Christopher
Inja
Athena
Allen
Jay
Elizabeth
Carl
Marjan
Sidney
Ashakiran
Forouzan
Michelle
John
Ellen
Gary

CURRENTLY 2 students are on academic probation (3 or more summer). MANY students have two summers and from those 2 students that I personally know will be taking a leave of absent because they don't want to be in academic probation and not have an option to leave and be able to come back.

Lets be more current about the situation at USN: I would like to get a TRUE feedback from a current faculty on how many students actually failed the Cardiology (HF) block without thrown out or multiple answer questions. From students who had to come back Monday, how many of those students passed?

Dr. DeYoung Please help clear this.. Can you?

I am asking this question because I passed on friday and did not deserve it, my friend knows more info then me but he/she didn't pass since questions thrown out did not help him/her. So because of ONE question my friend went to Monday, and since Monday's exam is harder then Friday he/she did not pass.. So I deserve to be here and he/she doesn't?

If you give the students Mondays exam on Friday I can bet more students would fail with Monday exam then the regular Friday exam. I guarantee you that.....

.

In August 2007 we had 82 students start in our class. Currently we have 77/78 students. Three students dropped out in the first half of the first year and from what I heard all three had some combination of family issues/not being able to keep up with the pace of the curriculum. One student dropped out in the second half of the first year. I knew this student really well. He was very smart and had gotten by with no remediations while studying less than the average student in our class but because of family/immigration issues he had to withdraw. So we went into P2 year with four people having withdrawn. At the end of P2 year I think we lost one more student who failed too many summer remediations; although I'm not sure if that student was able to get their appeals approved or not so that is why I said 77/78. Regarding that student, they didn't manage their time well as they tried to work practically full-time and also came to class less than half the time. So.... we'll likely graduate 77/78 out of 82 who started. Not too bad, right?

 

[USNCO11]

I was wondering,

To help future students/applicants come to more inform decision, can the school actually post how many students are accepted and how many actually graduate on the website? Including # of students who made it to 2nd year and 3rd year.

Also UPDATE that info early.
So the applicants know what are their chances of making it in this school AFTER paying $40,000 a year NOT including living expense.

 

[Pharmco]

I AM current USN student.

WOW way to stay updated with your info, future pharmacist. Lets starts with current facts, shall we? So how many students are gone from Class of 2011? Lets see, 15 when I checked and will have to add more once I double check few others.

Christopher
Inja
Athena
Allen
Jay
Elizabeth
Carl
Marjan
Sidney
Ashakiran
Forouzan
Michelle
John
Ellen
Gary

CURRENTLY 2 students are on academic probation (3 or more summer). MANY students have two summers and from those 2 students that I personally know will be taking a leave of absent because they don't want to be in academic probation and not have an option to leave and be able to come back.

Lets be more current about the situation at USN: I would like to get a TRUE feedback from a current faculty on how many students actually failed the Cardiology (HF) block without thrown out or multiple answer questions. From students who had to come back Monday, how many of those students passed?

Dr. DeYoung Please help clear this.. Can you?

I am asking this question because I passed on friday and did not deserve it, my friend knows more info then me but he/she didn't pass since questions thrown out did not help him/her. So because of ONE question my friend went to Monday, and since Monday's exam is harder then Friday he/she did not pass.. So I deserve to be here and he/she doesn't?

If you give the students Mondays exam on Friday I can bet more students would fail with Monday exam then the regular Friday exam. I guarantee you that....

Thanks USNCO11
I see my friends name on there, plus 3 more this friend says are not on the list. Perhaps more, just not sure. Most did NOT withdraw because of "personal" problems, they withdrew so their future might be salvaged. Shame on USN for requiring 90% knowledge and 10% retention of said knowledge. Sorry, but I believe USN is a money making institution. Mr Blah may be intimidated and may fear retaliation, I think that's why he quit posting, and I DON'T BLAME HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gsinccom]

I was wondering, To help future students/applicants come to more inform decision, can the school actually post how many students are accepted and how many actually graduate on the website? Including # of students who made it to 2nd year and 3rd year.

This information has been on the website for years and can be found currently at: http://usn.edu/pharmacy/faqs-for-pharmacy/ , then click on Admissions and Graduation statistics. You can find even more current info on this link: http://usn.edu/pharmacy/admissions-requirements/ , then click on Admissions Highlights where you'll notice that they increased the Utah class size to 92. My class (Utah Campus class of 2010) looks to hold true to what the website says as 94-95% (77 or 78 out of 82) of us are on track to graduate on June 5, 2010. Based on what you've said, it looks like your class of 146 at Henderson will come up short of the USN COP historical average graduation rate.

 

[RXsocal]

I work (during summers) as a pharmacy tech in one of the independent pharmacy located IN Henderson, NV. Since 2-3 years ago, my pharmacist stopped being a preceptor for USN because he was frustrated with the pharmacy students from USN. I bring this up because many of you have talked about "90% knowledge but only 10% retention of it." He complained that the pharmacist interns were chronically late, didn't know anything, and offered no help since they brought paperwork/homework to the pharmacy instead of doing it at home and just trying to gain hands on experience at the pharmacy. In any case, my pharmacist complained about 2 out of the 2 USN students that were interning there....so it does not represent the whole student body. What I don't get is... why can't USN students be a little more prepared, courteous, and PROFESSIONAL when these pharmacy intercepts are VOLUNTEERING to take you in. They're taking their own time out of their business to do something positive. Anyways....the pharmacy had nothing positive to say about USN. Just letting you all know their side of the story.

P.S. They ended all ties with USN and their pharmacy students.

 

[gsinccom]

I work (during summers) as a pharmacy tech in one of the independent pharmacy located IN Henderson, NV. Since 2-3 years ago, my pharmacist stopped being an intercept for USN because he was frustrated with the pharmacy students from USN. I bring this up because many of you have talked about "90% knowledge but only 10% retention of it." He complained that the pharmacist interns were chronically late, didn't know anything, and offered no help since they brought paperwork/homework to the pharmacy instead of doing it at home and just trying to gain hands on experience at the pharmacy. In any case, my pharmacist complained about 2 out of the 2 USN students that were interning there....so it does not represent the whole student body. What I don't get is... why can't USN students be a little more prepared, courteous, and PROFESSIONAL when these pharmacy intercepts are VOLUNTEERING to take you in. They're taking their own time out of their business to do something positive. Anyways....the pharmacy had nothing positive to say about USN. Just letting you all know their side of the story.

P.S. They ended all ties with USN and their pharmacy students.

what was the name of the cornerback and free safety (i.e., the former USN pharmacy intercepts that you know) that were doing the intercepting?

 

[gsinccom]

"90% knowledge but only 10% retention of it."

six or so months ago a dean from one of the new 4 year pharmacy programs stated here on SDN that if there was a difference in retention between 4 year and 3 year program students it was likely only due to the fact that the 4 year students have an extra year (including more free time over summers) for knowledge to distill in the brain and/or be integrated into practice. Also, Pacific (Oregon) actually patterned their program after USN's program and did so partly based on research that shows the efficacy of a block curriculum.

He complained that the pharmacist interns were chronically late, didn't know anything, and offered no help since they brought paperwork/homework to the pharmacy instead of doing it at home and just trying to gain hands on experience at the pharmacy. In any case, my pharmacist complained about 2 out of the 2 USN students that were interning there....so it does not represent the whole student body. What I don't get is... why can't USN students be a little more prepared, courteous, and PROFESSIONAL when these pharmacy intercepts are VOLUNTEERING to take you in. They're taking their own time out of their business to do something positive. Anyways....the pharmacy had nothing positive to say about USN. Just letting you all know their side of the story.

What you are describing sounds like a combination of two slacker students and uninformed preceptors (i.e., not intercepts) and not a fault with USN COP as a whole. I imagine the preceptors didn't bother to read the preceptor manual. The school year (not summer) IPPE includes an assignment for each visit. Students are told the assignment should take less than or equal to 3 hours to complete and should be completed at the pharmacy with the help of the pharmacy staff and that it shouldn't be done as homework. USN students at IPPE sites are there to learn to be pharmacists and aren't just free labor for the pharmacy. They can serve as an extra body in the pharmacy but shouldn't be there to replace a cashier, tech, paid intern, or pharmacist. The best preceptors I've worked with learn how to make this a win-win both for the student and the pharmacy.

Best wishes with your future endeavors

 

[gsinccom]

This is the summary paragraph of an essay I found on the Cornell IT department website. Although about Facebook I think it applies well to SDN too.

"Facebook, along with much of the Internet, is a great innovation that allows users to express their humanity and an opportunity to create new communities. As such it represents a forum in which one can make choices about their identity, at least insofar as one chooses to represent themselves publicly. That freedom does not suggest that one can do so with impunity, however. Because we live in a society in which expression is judged in legal, policy and even personal ways, it is important to remember the consequences of that expression no matter how ephemeral or fun in the moment it might seem to be.

This essay offers some things to contemplate when using Facebook, all of which can be summed up easily in a "Golden Rule." Don't say anything about someone else that you would not want said about yourself. And be gentle with yourself too! What might seem fun or spontaneous at 18, given caching technologies, might prove to be a liability to an on-going sense of your identity over the longer course of history. Have fun and make productive use of these new, exciting technologies, but remember that technology does not absolve one of responsibility. Behind every device, behind every new program, behind every technology is a law, a social norm, a business practice that warrants thoughtful consideration."

 

[USNCO11]

>>gsinccom: 1st link only had some what info on it "Over 94% of admitted students complete the program". Its like giving information but not actually giving the information. It leaves you asking more questions, doesn't it?

First of all what did we learn in class?? DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING...

What year is this data from? Is this their combined result of since the school has been open? Does this answer the question on how many student even make it past 1st and then the 2nd year?

And the 2nd link doesn't answer anything. I don't even know why you put it there. it just links it to info about USN requirements. (are you trying to recruit?)

I know their Admitted:Graduated ratio will go down for sure, but they did accept 2 transfer students in P2 so that should help with their #s.

Utah campus is their new baby. Utah can't start out with bad #s come on. Its a BUSINESS and we are the consumers. But after paying $40,000, I'm not receiving the goods/services I deserve.

I think the quality of USN education is going down because they don't care about student failing anymore (even in mass #s). Their focus is not the current students but future potential suckers, and how to increase that #. I can't wait till Touro starts and gives USN a kick in the ass it needs..

Just take care of your current students and the # will reflect that and more students will come. Their cellphone company model (Don't worry about current contracts since they can't go anywhere and lets focus on recruitment) will not work here, not for long term growth of USN.

This information has been on the website for years and can be found currently at: http://usn.edu/pharmacy/faqs-for-pharmacy/ , then click on Admissions and Graduation statistics. You can find even more current info on this link: http://usn.edu/pharmacy/admissions-requirements/ , then click on Admissions Highlights where you'll notice that they increased the Utah class size to 92. My class (Utah Campus class of 2010) looks to hold true to what the website says as 94-95% (77 or 78 out of 82) of us are on track to graduate on June 5, 2010. Based on what you've said, it looks like your class of 146 at Henderson will come up short of the USN COP historical average graduation rate.

 

[diastole]

nm

 

[its Duke]

Accepted USN students for 2013 ... do you have living arrangements all planned out? (apartments ... houses ... boxes ... car) ?

 

[joh0472]

I hope all of you applying to USN listen to Mr. Blah and pull your application and reject interviews. I would love to have less competition so that I can get into the already proven competent pharmacy school that must be doing something right because nearly all graduates of the program pass their national tests. Please apply to different schools and you can post your complaints about those school. I think Mr. Blah would even complain if he were going to school at UCSF. And complaining about only getting 2 weeks off for Christmas break. YOU SIGNED UP FOR A 3 YEAR ACCELERATED PROGRAM.

 

[RXsocal]

I hope all of you applying to USN listen to Mr. Blah and pull your application and reject interviews. I would love to have less competition so that I can get into the already proven competent pharmacy school that must be doing something right because nearly all graduates of the program pass their national tests. Please apply to different schools and you can post your complaints about those school. I think Mr. Blah would even complain if he were going to school at UCSF. And complaining about only getting 2 weeks off for Christmas break. YOU SIGNED UP FOR A 3 YEAR ACCELERATED PROGRAM.

Lol, good for you. Your post did not provide information or help applicants what so ever. Maybe you'll realize what you're getting into (good or bad)...the hard way. Good luck, child.

 

[diastole]

I wonder how many procrastinators are out there sweating over tomorrow's deadline. Yeah, I did that too and didn't hear anything until late February. It kind of freaked me out. People were getting accepted and I didn't even have an interview date. I never could figure out that whole early bird worm thing.

Hopefully the above posts didn't scare everyone off. Good luck to the better late than never crowd.

 

[Summitguy98]

Better late than never crowd member here. I just put my app in on thursday, but Sat. night I got an e-mail back for an interview. Hopefully that means they are more than interested in me.

 

[diastole]

Better late than never crowd member here. I just put my app in on thursday, but Sat. night I got an e-mail back for an interview. Hopefully that means they are more than interested in me.

Wow that was fast. I didn't think the postal service worked that quickly. Good luck with your interview.

 

[Summitguy98]

Yeah, I live pretty close to USN so that might have something to do with it. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[lycheebee]

summitguy, could you say your stats please I am one of those applying tomorrow XD

 

[Summitguy98]

verbal 69
bio 88
rc 55
quant 61
chem 81
comp 76
3's in the writing
3.2 GPA

 

[jaypea65]

Did anybody actually get an acceptance offer yet from USN? Is USN rolling admissions, or do they decide on the whole class at one meeting?

 

[diastole]

Did anybody actually get an acceptance offer yet from USN? Is USN rolling admissions, or do they decide on the whole class at one meeting?

Some people have said that they already received offers. USN is not rolling admissions but they don't wait until all the interviews are done to offer spots if your point total is high enough. If your point total isn't super high, you are probably going to have to wait until all the interviews are complete (March or April) until you find out your status.