Utah vs Tulane

[medical_shrimp]

Hi there hoping to get some outside opinions here.
Utah (Spencer Fox Eccles)
Pros:
- Utah resident
- Cheaper Tuition
- Smaller class size (~120)

Cons:
- lack of information about new curriculum

Tulane
Pros:
- Well known
- Well established with community
- Mission / fit alignment

Cons:
- Expensive Tuition / cost of living
- larger class size (~190)

more info: I'm a Utah res who loves living here in Utah but I have concerns about how much the U is changing their curriculum, I've heard negative things from students and physicians. However, it would eliminate the stress of relocating to an increased cost of living, tuition is cheaper and class size is smaller.

Tulane definitely aligns with my own mission and values better as a program, they are more involved with community and seem (from what I can tell w/o first hand experience w/ the program) to focus on a more holistic approach to wellness and healthcare. But it's more expensive - both tuition and cost of living. The program and school are both much larger (pro potential for more connections / resources) and I don't want to get lost in the crowd or fight for access to resources / faculty.

LM 76 MCAT 518

TIA!

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[m1redsox]

Utah, no question. Cheaper, near your support system, better reputation, better home residency programs. M1/M2 curriculum matters very little in the long run. Every medical student in the country prepares for step 1 using the exact same resources. Matching in the specialty and location of your choice matters much more, and Utah is your answer.

 

[medical_shrimp]

Utah, no question. Cheaper, near your support system, better reputation, better home residency programs. M1/M2 curriculum matters very little in the long run. Every medical student in the country prepares for step 1 using the exact same resources. Matching in the specialty and location of your choice matters much more, and Utah is your answer.

Interested in what makes you say Utah has a better reputation?

 

[wysdoc]

Hi there hoping to get some outside opinions here.
Utah (Spencer Fox Eccles)
Pros:
- Utah resident
- Cheaper Tuition
- Smaller class size (~120)

Cons:
- lack of information about new curriculum

Tulane
Pros:
- Well known
- Well established with community
- Mission / fit alignment

Cons:
- Expensive Tuition / cost of living
- larger class size (~190)

more info: I'm a Utah res who loves living here in Utah but I have concerns about how much the U is changing their curriculum, I've heard negative things from students and physicians. However, it would eliminate the stress of relocating to an increased cost of living, tuition is cheaper and class size is smaller.

Tulane definitely aligns with my own mission and values better as a program, they are more involved with community and seem (from what I can tell w/o first hand experience w/ the program) to focus on a more holistic approach to wellness and healthcare. But it's more expensive - both tuition and cost of living. The program and school are both much larger (pro potential for more connections / resources) and I don't want to get lost in the crowd or fight for access to resources / faculty.

LM 76 MCAT 518

TIA!

Have you ever visited New Orleans? It couldn't be more opposite to Salt Lake City and you could either love the differences or hate them.

 

[m1redsox]

Interested in what makes you say Utah has a better reputation?

Utah is a top 40 med school by most all accounts (PD rankings, USWNR, NIH research funding). Tulane isn’t (granted they haven’t participated in USWNR rankings in a while). Also, Utah’s residency programs are all very well-regarded (doximity is really the only site that ranks residency program reputation). With that said, I am biased because I’m doing ophthalmology and Utah has a top 10 ophtho program. Either way, cost and support system are two of the most important factors, and Utah takes the cake there. Things like “fit”, “mission”, and “vibes” from interview day are extremely superficial and have more to do with the adcom than the actual SOM faculty. You probably won’t interact with the adcom much at all after interview day.

 

[medical_shrimp]

Have you ever visited New Orleans? It couldn't be more opposite to Salt Lake City and you could either love the differences or hate them.

Very true! Differences are less of a factor for me, I’ll miss skiing but there’s lots to replace it with!

 

[medical_shrimp]

Utah is a top 40 med school by most all accounts (PD rankings, USWNR, NIH research funding). Tulane isn’t (granted they haven’t participated in USWNR rankings in a while). Also, Utah’s residency programs are all very well-regarded (doximity is really the only site that ranks residency program reputation). With that said, I am biased because I’m doing ophthalmology and Utah has a top 10 ophtho program. Either way, cost and support system are two of the most important factors, and Utah takes the cake there. Things like “fit”, “mission”, and “vibes” from interview day are extremely superficial and have more to do with the adcom than the actual SOM faculty. You probably won’t interact with the adcom much at all after interview day.

Interesting take, I think both programs have a lot to offer but it’s pretty impossible to compare rankings between a ranked and an unranked school (which is why I asked for more clarification - hoping you knew something I didn’t lol).Both programs are Carnegie R1. The U is very well known for ophtho so totally agree it’s the clear winner there!

I appreciate the time you took to respond and you definitely make some good points. I totally agree that interview day is not something you can base the decision on - frankly didn’t enjoy either interview out of the 9 I did both of these rank in the bottom.

However, I think I disagree about mission and fit not mattering or being superficial I’m definitely a focus on the journey and not the destination kind of person so attending a school that promotes the same values and goals of mine are a big factor. Makes the decision hard when like you’ve pointed out in a lot of ways the U is a much simpler choice!

 

[toastedbutter]

What are some specific extracurriculars or community opportunities you'd like to get involved with during medical school? Have you been able to see what Tulane has in that area that the U doesn't? Agree that interview day vibes only mean so much, and I imagine there is a lot to get involved with in Utah too with RUUTE etc.

 

[m1redsox]

Interesting take, I think both programs have a lot to offer but it’s pretty impossible to compare rankings between a ranked and an unranked school (which is why I asked for more clarification - hoping you knew something I didn’t lol).Both programs are Carnegie R1. The U is very well known for ophtho so totally agree it’s the clear winner there!

I appreciate the time you took to respond and you definitely make some good points. I totally agree that interview day is not something you can base the decision on - frankly didn’t enjoy either interview out of the 9 I did both of these rank in the bottom.

However, I think I disagree about mission and fit not mattering or being superficial I’m definitely a focus on the journey and not the destination kind of person so attending a school that promotes the same values and goals of mine are a big factor. Makes the decision hard when like you’ve pointed out in a lot of ways the U is a much simpler choice!

Agree with the above poster's questions. What is the difference in mission/fit that are you seeing? I guess I am saying that "it doesn't really matter" from the perspective that most med schools have similar opportunities available (chance to work with uninsured patients in free clinics, opportunities to mentor underserved younger med students or undergrads, involvement with rural medicine like RUUTE, etc), however, even apart from that, the med school experience is somewhat similar across the country (in terms of study material, resources for board exams, and even common types of interactions on hospital rotations with patients and staff) despite Utah's curriculum changes. Maybe Tulane just did a better job of "selling" their holistic approach or community atmosphere. I probably just wouldn't choose a med school solely based on the perceived better experiences that one school may offer.

In terms of rank, maybe take a look at your preferred specialties on doximity (since the USWNR/PD rankings are a little muddy). Many of Utah's departments significantly outrank Tulane's (the only exceptions that I found were IM, psych, neurology and urology). It is not unique to ophthalmology.

 

[toastedbutter]

Agree with the above poster's questions. What is the difference in mission/fit that are you seeing? I guess I am saying that "it doesn't really matter" from the perspective that most med schools have similar opportunities available (chance to work with uninsured patients in free clinics, opportunities to mentor underserved younger med students or undergrads, involvement with rural medicine like RUUTE, etc), however, even apart from that, the med school experience is somewhat similar across the country (in terms of study material, resources for board exams, and even common types of interactions on hospital rotations with patients and staff) despite Utah's curriculum changes. Maybe Tulane just did a better job of "selling" their holistic approach or community atmosphere. I probably just wouldn't choose a med school solely based on the perceived better experiences that one school may offer.

In terms of rank, maybe take a look at your preferred specialties on doximity (since the USWNR/PD rankings are a little muddy). Many of Utah's departments significantly outrank Tulane's (the only exceptions that I found were IM, psych, neurology and urology). It is not unique to ophthalmology.

Quick q - are we able to access doximity ranks? I thought only current medical students can.

Also agree with everything you have said.

 

[m1redsox]

Quick q - are we able to access doximity ranks? I thought only current medical students can.

Also agree with everything you have said.

Unsure about this. If you don’t have access, feel free to DM me, and I’d be happy to look up ‘x’ program’s ranking in ‘y’ specialty.

Further, I think these residency program rankings are even more important because you match better in specialties that your home program excels in. For example, for ophthalmology, you’ll see U of Miami and Thomas Jefferson grads matching at Harvard, Hopkins, etc because, even though they are not T40 med schools, they have the two best ophtho programs in the world. Thus, their students have amazing letters of recommendation, and students’ mentors are very well connected.

Edit: and, of course, research is more available in these strong departments.

 

[Med Ed]

Interested in what makes you say Utah has a better reputation?

University of Utah
GME programs sponsored: 99 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation)
2023 NIH awards: $264 million

Tulane
GME programs sponsored: 42 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation with warning)
2023 NIH awards: $110 million

The pre-clerkship curriculum will come and go, a key differentiator between medical schools is the strength of their clinical education systems. Tulane's clinical operation has been a rather famous mess for some time. The hospital used to be majority-owned by for-profit HCA, but in 2022 the whole thing was bought out by LCMC. How that's going to shake out is anyone's guess.

You would also spend 4 years hoping Katrina 2.0 doesn't show up.

It's understandable to want to go somewhere new and have some interesting experiences, but if you look at the bigger picture of cost, stability, and training opportunities, this is about the biggest no-brainer I've seen on SDN in awhile.

 

[Goro]

University of Utah
GME programs sponsored: 99 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation)
2023 NIH awards: $264 million

Tulane
GME programs sponsored: 42 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation with warning)
2023 NIH awards: $110 million

The pre-clerkship curriculum will come and go, a key differentiator between medical schools is the strength of their clinical education systems. Tulane's clinical operation has been a rather famous mess for some time. The hospital used to be majority-owned by for-profit HCA, but in 2022 the whole thing was bought out by LCMC. How that's going to shake out is anyone's guess.

You would also spend 4 years hoping Katrina 2.0 doesn't show up.

It's understandable to want to go somewhere new and have some interesting experiences, but if you look at the bigger picture of cost, stability, and training opportunities, this is about the biggest no-brainer I've seen on SDN in awhile.

How does one find out about the number of ACGME programs a school has, accreditation warnings, and NIH funding???

 

[m1redsox]

University of Utah
GME programs sponsored: 99 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation)
2023 NIH awards: $264 million

Tulane
GME programs sponsored: 42 (current ACGME status is continued accreditation with warning)
2023 NIH awards: $110 million

The pre-clerkship curriculum will come and go, a key differentiator between medical schools is the strength of their clinical education systems. Tulane's clinical operation has been a rather famous mess for some time. The hospital used to be majority-owned by for-profit HCA, but in 2022 the whole thing was bought out by LCMC. How that's going to shake out is anyone's guess.

You would also spend 4 years hoping Katrina 2.0 doesn't show up.

It's understandable to want to go somewhere new and have some interesting experiences, but if you look at the bigger picture of cost, stability, and training opportunities, this is about the biggest no-brainer I've seen on SDN in awhile.

Tulane’s accreditation warning is a red flag. Was not aware of this, but it’s definitely something to keep in mind.

Edit: of course, warnings are often inconsequential, but I think it makes this debate pretty clear cut.

 

[Med Ed]

How does one find out about the number of ACGME programs a school has, accreditation warnings, and NIH funding???

ACGME Institution and Program Finder: ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

Search for sponsor and then narrow by state.

NIH Awards by Location and Organization: NIH Awards by Location and Organization - NIH Research Portfolio Online Reporting Tools (RePORT)

Choose the fiscal year (upper left), and then select location (upper right) to narrow by state.

 

[medical_shrimp]

Thanks for all the feedback and points you’ve all brought up. Appreciate the outside perspective!! Definitely taking all this feedback into serious consideration for a decision.