UTSW vs UCLA

[MonkeyBar1010]

ahh i'm in a similar dilemma as that thread UTMB vs UCLA (....

for me, UTSW (~11K/year in tuition. not sure about fees, but living should be cheaper) vs UCLA (~22/year)???

I may be OOS for ucla 1st year (debatable but i've been in LA for undergrad). and i like LA (don't know too much about dallas) and westwood...although it'll be hard to find a place to leave since i'll be in the housing lottery. after year 1, i'll be in-state. but for utsw, i'm considered in-state for tuition purposes with a minimum of $1000 in scholarship. and it seems to be overall cheaper. parkland's great but is burning out a worry here for the first two years?

i'm so torn!

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[TheRealMD]

Need more info.

1) Where do you see yourself doing your residency?
2) Any scholarships at UCLA to make tuition cheaper?
3) Is that $22k figure in-state tuition? What is OOS tuition?
4) Which place did you like better when you interviewed?
5) Have you make a pro/con list about each?
6) Ever lived outside of CA?

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

1) Where do you see yourself doing your residency?
As of now, I'm not sure. I want to be open to go anywhere for residency, including the south, northeast, west coast. But perhaps settling down, in the long-run, somewhere in the south (if job opportunities dictate there) after residency...still not sure. It'd be nice to do my residency training elsewhere, especially if I end up in the South for med school, and then maybe end up in the South for a job.

2) Any scholarships at UCLA to make tuition cheaper?
Not that i know of...
3) Is that $22k figure in-state tuition? What is OOS tuition?
The 22k figure is for "fees" since in-state tuition is 0. But OOS, it's an extra 12K in terms of OOS tuition
4) Which place did you like better when you interviewed?
It''s really hard to say. UTSW was my first interview. I thought it was well-organized, everyone was friendly, good presentation in the morning, etc. I talked to some students who gave me an impression that it's pretty competitive, which was a little off-putting. Especially one girl who was not into the school. But I know it's not a good representation of everyone in that class, so I don't want to base everything on that. At UCLA, I went straight to my first interview, which was delayed over an hour due to patient consultations. But he was nice and apologetic, and I understood. And then I rushed to my student interview, and she was great. But b/c of time limitations, i wasn't able to go on the tour planned. So I went home. I guess I don't have a real complete picture of the school.

5) Have you make a pro/con list about each?
Kinda. I like UTSW b/c of it's tuition and it's closer to home, although I'd still have to fly home (1 hr flight on southwest wouldn't seem too bad) since I don't live in Texas. Its curriculum seems rigorous while UCLA seems more laidback. I'm not sure which is better in terms of prepping for Step 1, although perhaps both will be sufficient. I like UCLA, since I do like LA (but am willing to explore other cities since I like big cities) and the Westwood area. I missed the housing deadline (since i got my decision late) so I'm worried about finding something "cheap" (like within $1000/month) in that area. The curriculum is laidback with 2hrs of lecture/day with pbl for 2 hours on mon and fri mornings. But does that mean i have to learn more through independent studying rather than lecture? I'm not sure. It just seemed more relaxed.

In terms of name and reputation, both are equal, right? Or does one hold rank over the other?

6) Ever lived outside of CA?
Yes. I grew up in the South and went to LA for college.

 

[pntgrd]

I thought UCLA guarantees every med student Weyburn for 2 years no matter when they are accepted.

 

[172858]

yea, don't worry about housing man. we're guaranteed weyburn, even if you come off the wait list the day before class starts. worst case scenario - you end up living with a non-medicine grad student.

i'm dealing with a similar situation - circa my thread. after thinking about it over the weekend, i'm pretty sure i'm going to end up going to LA even though i'll be leaving 60K in free money on the table.

that is, unless i can convince TheRealMD to swap his Baylor spot for my UCLA one. he seems to be down for it, and i think i'm THIS close to us making a deal...

 

[jjmack]

stay away from UTSW. It's a good school, but the forced curve is not worth it.

 

[hardworker101]

You asked :

In terms of name and reputation, both are equal, right? Or does one hold rank over the other?

Answer:

If you are care about ranking, UCLA is ranked 9 in research and UTSW is ranked 22. But, I think they are both excellent schools.

 

[172858]

1) Where do you see yourself doing your residency?
As of now, I'm not sure. I want to be open to go anywhere for residency, including the south, northeast, west coast. But perhaps settling down, in the long-run, somewhere in the south (if job opportunities dictate there) after residency...still not sure. It'd be nice to do my residency training elsewhere, especially if I end up in the South for med school, and then maybe end up in the South for a job.

2) Any scholarships at UCLA to make tuition cheaper?
Not that i know of...
3) Is that $22k figure in-state tuition? What is OOS tuition?
The 22k figure is for "fees" since in-state tuition is 0. But OOS, it's an extra 12K in terms of OOS tuition
4) Which place did you like better when you interviewed?
It''s really hard to say. UTSW was my first interview. I thought it was well-organized, everyone was friendly, good presentation in the morning, etc. I talked to some students who gave me an impression that it's pretty competitive, which was a little off-putting. Especially one girl who was not into the school. But I know it's not a good representation of everyone in that class, so I don't want to base everything on that. At UCLA, I went straight to my first interview, which was delayed over an hour due to patient consultations. But he was nice and apologetic, and I understood. And then I rushed to my student interview, and she was great. But b/c of time limitations, i wasn't able to go on the tour planned. So I went home. I guess I don't have a real complete picture of the school.

5) Have you make a pro/con list about each?
Kinda. I like UTSW b/c of it's tuition and it's closer to home, although I'd still have to fly home (1 hr flight on southwest wouldn't seem too bad) since I don't live in Texas. Its curriculum seems rigorous while UCLA seems more laidback. I'm not sure which is better in terms of prepping for Step 1, although perhaps both will be sufficient. I like UCLA, since I do like LA (but am willing to explore other cities since I like big cities) and the Westwood area. I missed the housing deadline (since i got my decision late) so I'm worried about finding something "cheap" (like within $1000/month) in that area. The curriculum is laidback with 2hrs of lecture/day with pbl for 2 hours on mon and fri mornings. But does that mean i have to learn more through independent studying rather than lecture? I'm not sure. It just seemed more relaxed.

In terms of name and reputation, both are equal, right? Or does one hold rank over the other?

6) Ever lived outside of CA?
Yes. I grew up in the South and went to LA for college.

1) I feel the same way. I see myself coming back to Texas, but that's easy to say when you've never really lived anywhere else. I've been in Texas all my life, so the idea of being somewhere else is REALLY foreign, yet exciting.

2) If you're straight Geffen, you get 5K care of Mr. David Geffen the first year.

3) Yea - I'd get OOS (22+12) first year, but they said that I would then get in-state years 2-4. But still, 22K is a pretty penny in and of itself.

4) Push - pretty subjective. I basically liked UTMB, Baylor, A&M, UTSW, UCLA, and UIC all equally from the interviews. They all do a really good job of selling themselves, and each have their own unique pros and cons.

5) Only con I could come up with for UCLA was the price. The location, curriculum (blocks, and true P/F... OMG), and the mission of my specific program combined to make it an AMAZING place. As for UTSW, the only con for me was the SUPER competitive atmosphere. But outside of curriculum, price, and the competition factor, UTSW and UCLA are equally top tier schools. If you dissect the rankings, the only reason UTSW is ranked below the top 15 these days is because of how the expansion of their class size, due to new legislative mandates, has reduced their student/faculty ratio. If you look at all the other ranking factors, the really should be in the top 10-15. I'd venture to say that's the same reason Baylor dropped in those arbitrary US News rankings. At the end of the day, they're all tier 1.


All in all, these are super tough decisions, no matter how you slice it. Good luck with yours man. I'm pretty sure I've made mine. If you end up matriculating to UCLA as well, let me know. That way, if we regret it, misery can have company.

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

hey jjmack,

Have you gone through UTSW or know people who have? I hear it's competitive but then I hear every medical school is competitive, even with P/NP (to get AOA). So, from what I gathered from what some have said, is that the curve doesn't really add/take away from the atmosphere found at UTSW versus any other school.

stay away from UTSW. It's a good school, but the forced curve is not worth it.

I'm not sure how to decide if I should go with the cheaper school here, especially if both are similar in reputation, research, etc. Total cost at UTSW would be about 55K, including tuition, fees, and books for four years while I think UCLA would be about between 88-100K (depending on state residency) for fees (and tuition possibly for the 1st year) alone.

What I like about UCLA is LA (except I HATE parallel parking), the curriculum (afternoons off!) although I'm not sure about how structured it is. Is it enough lecture time to cover what will be tested on the Step 1? What I like about UTSW is that it's more traditional in lecture but I don't like how it goes from 9-5! And all these rumors of competition are off-setting. Thoughts on this??

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

ps I called graduate housing and they said the deadline was May 5th...where did you guys find out that Weyburn is available after that deadline?

Also, UTSW is known outside of Texas, right? I'm pretty sure it is, but it seems no one here in California really has heard of it...

 

[172858]

ps I called graduate housing and they said the deadline was May 5th...where did you guys find out that Weyburn is available after that deadline?

Also, UTSW is known outside of Texas, right? I'm pretty sure it is, but it seems no one here in California really has heard of it...

Just tell them you are a med student. They'll give you special treatment then. And if you still have problems, contract someone in medical student affairs and they'll take care of it.

 

[TheRealMD]

If UCLA really is P/F, then pick UCLA. My bro is a UTSW grad and the #1 thing he wished for was P/F. It makes life THAT much easier. Just be ready to bust your butt more for your boards. A "passing" score (186) isn't too desirable.

And TexasMD2B, I am STILL convinced there's something I'm overlooking. Why do you want Baylor so badly?

 

[172858]

If UCLA really is P/F, then pick UCLA. My bro is a UTSW grad and the #1 thing he wished for was P/F. It makes life THAT much easier. Just be ready to bust your butt more for your boards. A "passing" score (186) isn't too desirable.

And TexasMD2B, I am STILL convinced there's something I'm overlooking. Why do you want Baylor so badly?

Born and raised in Houston. Mom's worked in Cardio at the Texas Heart Institute for the last 30 years. Have a lot of connections with clinical faculty members and department chiefs. So it would be the most ideal situation EVER.

Honestly though, pulled off the waitlist. Outside of the people I already know, I just felt like they did not like me AT ALL.

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

Do you mean that with a more rigorous curriculum at UTSW, its curriculum is directed towards Step 1 success? In other words, having a rigorous grading system and all that is more beneficial for Step 1?

And with a P/F system like in UCLA, I'd have to bust my butt more when it comes to Step 1 since it's a more relaxed environment?

If UCLA really is P/F, then pick UCLA. My bro is a UTSW grad and the #1 thing he wished for was P/F. It makes life THAT much easier. Just be ready to bust your butt more for your boards. A "passing" score (186) isn't too desirable.

And TexasMD2B, I am STILL convinced there's something I'm overlooking. Why do you want Baylor so badly?

 

[TheRealMD]

Do you mean that with a more rigorous curriculum at UTSW, its curriculum is directed towards Step 1 success? In other words, having a rigorous grading system and all that is more beneficial for Step 1?

And with a P/F system like in UCLA, I'd have to bust my butt more when it comes to Step 1 since it's a more relaxed environment?

I don't think grading systems play that large a role since schools that have P/F still have pretty good Step scores. I can't comment on whether either school "teaches to the boards" so to speak.

 

[dbbmd]

Just finishing up my first year at Einstein which is P/F (all you need is a 65, but our test averages are usually low 80s), it is seriously the best thing that ever happened to Medical School. Average USMLE Step 1 score here is a 230 (evidence that board scores do not suffer). People still study a ton, but don't stress out over underperforming every once in a while. I couldn't imagine being at a medical school where you are ranked during the first two years. Basically, I vote UCLA, P/F and beautiful weather.

 

[Danbo1957]

The schools mirror each other in many ways - one really isn't better than the other. Getting IN to either is the difficult part, especially if you're out of state for either...

 

[pntgrd]

I think UCLA is the better choice. Significantly higher in research, primary care, and medical center rankings, much better grading system, better area and city, better weather, and not that much more cost over the long run.

 

[TheRealMD]

I think UCLA is the better choice. Significantly higher in research, primary care, and medical center rankings, much better grading system, better area and city, better weather, and not that much more cost over the long run.

Let's not go off the deep end here. Don't make me have to hurt you. *Dallas raised*

 

[172858]

Let's not go off the deep end here. Don't make me have to hurt you. *Dallas raised*

Not gonna lie - I'm from Houston and Dallas scared the bejesus outta me.

One OU weekend, I saw a whole crowd of people on Lower Greenvile get tear gassed at 2:07 AM right after coming out of the bars simply because the Dallas PD wanted to make sure they all knew it was time to go home.

 

[Danbo1957]

Not gonna lie - I'm from Houston and Dallas scared the bejesus outta me.

Say Hello to South Central LA.

The real determining factors are instate costs versus OOS, and where one wants to take residency.





(I'm from Austin, so you can guess as to what I think of Dallas.)

 

[TheRealMD]

Not gonna lie - I'm from Houston and Dallas scared the bejesus outta me.

One OU weekend, I saw a whole crowd of people on Lower Greenvile get tear gassed at 2:07 AM right after coming out of the bars simply because the Dallas PD wanted to make sure they all knew it was time to go home.

Being in inner-city Dallas during that weekend is a bad idea if you want to get anything accomplished. People go nuts.

 

[Nooblet]

whats an OU weekend

 

[172858]

whats an OU weekend

Weekend of the annual UT-Oklahoma game that's played in Dallas at the Cotton Bowl. It's kind of a big deal, like UCLA-USC, Ohio State-Michigan, Florida-UGA, etc.

 

[TheRealMD]

Weekend of the annual UT-Oklahoma game that's played in Dallas at the Cotton Bowl. It's kind of a big deal, like UCLA-USC, Ohio State-Michigan, Florida-UGA, etc.

*waves magic wand*

OU Weekend will now be known as TEXAS WEEKEND!

Good day.

 

[abesha]

I think UTSW is a great school, but it seems your already kind of set for Cali. In the long run money won't be as important as your experiences, the education you get, and personal growth your experience in the next couple of years.

 

[TheRealMD]

I think UTSW is a great school, but it seems your already kind of set for Cali. In the long run money won't be as important as your experiences, the education you get, and personal growth your experience in the next couple of years.

Unless you're $150k more in debt, which will probably effect ALL of that.

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

Wait, with UCLA, I'd be in 150K debt?? I must've miscalculated...

 

[MonkeyBar1010]

and just another thought...

Isn't Baylor H/HP/P/MP/F? Essentially, it's like ABCD at UTSW, right? And if that's the case, why does UTSW get a bad rap for being so competitive while Baylor does not?

 

[jtdallas]

Not gonna lie - I'm from Houston and Dallas scared the bejesus outta me.

One OU weekend, I saw a whole crowd of people on Lower Greenvile get tear gassed at 2:07 AM right after coming out of the bars simply because the Dallas PD wanted to make sure they all knew it was time to go home.

Kind of lofty... don't you think? Staying with the consistency of your point, the Zoot Suit Riots occurred in Los Angeles, is that enough to steer one from that city?

I am certain the police officers had a pertinent reason as to why tear gas was sprayed other than because "the Dallas PD wanted to make sure they all knew it was time to go home." If not there most certainly would have been repercussions.

Every city has its "big city issues", try Chicago or DC and get back to me.

Just a defender of my city.

And Dallas Cowboys... that's it!

 

[Nooblet]

and just another thought...

Isn't Baylor H/HP/P/MP/F? Essentially, it's like ABCD at UTSW, right? And if that's the case, why does UTSW get a bad rap for being so competitive while Baylor does not?

maybe there's no curve

 

[TheRealMD]

Wait, with UCLA, I'd be in 150K debt?? I must've miscalculated...

No, I meant that the only instance you shouldn't pick the school with all that stuff is if it puts you $150k MORE into debt (harvard, hopkins, and stanford are exempt from this rule)

and just another thought...

Isn't Baylor H/HP/P/MP/F? Essentially, it's like ABCD at UTSW, right? And if that's the case, why does UTSW get a bad rap for being so competitive while Baylor does not?

Some (not all) of the classes at UTSW are graded on a curved scale where it is not technically possible for everyone to get an A. The curve might be 15/20/20/25/20 for grades of A/B/C/D/F (NOTE: I just made up these numbers. Do NOT take them seriously.) I'm pretty sure biochem is graded this way. They want to separate the top from the bottom. People sometimes misconstrue this as being "uber-competitive" when you ACTUALLY think about it, when's the last time any class actually got ALL A's? In fact, because there are certain percentage cutoffs, it's more likely for the curve to help you than hurt you. They've been making these tests for years in order to get the distribution they want. Other courses like anatomy are the same as college: 90 = A.

In the end however, the dean's letter mentions all of this and they still have pretty good match results.

As for why UTSW gets a bad rap compared to Baylor for competitiveness? That's because it is MUCH easier for a former pre-med to stomach a "Pass" than a "C". They're also seen as the most "traditional" of all the Texas med schools, but that's changing now with the college system they put into place last year.

 

[172858]

No, I meant that the only instance you shouldn't pick the school with all that stuff is if it puts you $150k MORE into debt (harvard, hopkins, and stanford are exempt from this rule)



Some (not all) of the classes at UTSW are graded on a curved scale where it is not technically possible for everyone to get an A. The curve might be 15/20/20/25/20 for grades of A/B/C/D/F (NOTE: I just made up these numbers. Do NOT take them seriously.) I'm pretty sure biochem is graded this way. They want to separate the top from the bottom. People sometimes misconstrue this as being "uber-competitive" when you ACTUALLY think about it, when's the last time any class actually got ALL A's? In fact, because there are certain percentage cutoffs, it's more likely for the curve to help you than hurt you. They've been making these tests for years in order to get the distribution they want. Other courses like anatomy are the same as college: 90 = A.

In the end however, the dean's letter mentions all of this and they still have pretty good match results.

As for why UTSW gets a bad rap compared to Baylor for competitiveness? That's because it is MUCH easier for a former pre-med to stomach a "Pass" than a "C". They're also seen as the most "traditional" of all the Texas med schools, but that's changing now with the college system they put into place last year.

Actually, my best friend goes to UTSW, and he told me that A is generally 93ish. And biochem is the only class I've heard of being curved (and yes - sometimes curved down), but from what I understand there are others.

I think UTSW gets a more competitive rep that Baylor somewhat unfairly. They are both very competitive schools. However, generally, I find that the student life and education environment at Baylor is much better. The students just generally seem happier and more well-adjusted. Ofcourse, that is purely subjective... but it is a subjective observation that seems to be the consensus on when I talk to other students.