VA/other government internships: Effects of federal hiring freeze?

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futureapppsy2

futureapppsy2

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Any sense of how the just-announced federal hiring freeze--which affects everything but the military--will impact VA and other government internships and post docs?
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I thought the “military, public safety, and public health" was exempt from this?
 
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When he signed it, he said only the military. I know that the VA I'm at is acting like this is going to affect them.
 
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Well, that could really throw this whole internship match thing for lots and lots of us. Are we classified as employees at the intern level?
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Any sense of how the just-announced federal hiring freeze--which affects everything but the military--will impact VA and other government internships and post docs?
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It's random heresay but a VA colleague did post (on a C&P listserv) earlier today that they had gotten word from some people (Human Resources Administrators?) from 'VISN 17' that the freeze was not to impact positions for direct clinical care (e.g., providers...people with caseloads) but would potentially impact ancillary 'support staff.'

In any case, I can't imagine that even the current POTUS could/would defend freezing hiring for positions for professionals directly involved in providing mental health care to veterans. Impossible to defend such a position. Confusingly, at our facility some positions (e.g., suicide prevention coordinators) could arguably be classified either way, since they don't necessarily have caseloads per se (though I would argue that they provide direct clinical services that are essential).
 
Fan_of_Meehl said:
In any case, I can't imagine that even the current POTUS could/would defend freezing hiring for positions for professionals directly involved in providing mental health care to veterans. Impossible to defend such a position. Confusingly, at our facility some positions (e.g., suicide prevention coordinators) could arguably be classified either way, since they don't necessarily have caseloads per se (though I would argue that they provide direct clinical services that are essential.?
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It would be pretty indefensible to hold a press conference in which they present "alternative facts" to quantifiable realities but yeah...
 
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Fan_of_Meehl said:
It's random heresay but a VA colleague did post (on a C&P listserv) earlier today that they had gotten word from some people (Human Resources Administrators?) from 'VISN 17' that the freeze was not to impact positions for direct clinical care (e.g., providers...people with caseloads) but would potentially impact ancillary 'support staff.'

In any case, I can't imagine that even the current POTUS could/would defend freezing hiring for positions for professionals directly involved in providing mental health care to veterans. Impossible to defend such a position. Confusingly, at our facility some positions (e.g., suicide prevention coordinators) could arguably be classified either way, since they don't necessarily have caseloads per se (though I would argue that they provide direct clinical services that are essential).
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Really appreciate the update. We are down to about 1 MSA for about 75 providers/50 trainees at a major VA.* We are drowning without support staff. I'm scared about whether those of us who are research/clinical are clinical enough to matter.

I have like zero distress tolerance skills.*

*gross estimate
 
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The only time republicans care about mental health is when it's a scapegoat for a mass shooting. And even then, it's not like they'd actually fund more mental health services.
 
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For what it is worth, I have not seen internships or post doc positions become affected during the last major freeze. For those like myself that are in line for a full position, we will have to see what happens.
 
PsychPhDStudent said:
Really appreciate the update. We are down to about 1 MSA for about 75 providers/50 trainees at a major VA.* We are drowning without support staff. I'm scared about whether those of us who are research/clinical are clinical enough to matter.

I have like zero distress tolerance skills.*

*gross estimate
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Agreed. The number of support staff per provider is anemic at VA compared with private sector and, to make things worse, if you're a rank and file provider at VA, you don't supervise anybody...including 'your' support staff. So, not filling those support staff roles will definitely be devastating to the providers.
 
WisNeuro said:
I thought the last major federal hiring freeze was Reagan's in 1981. Is that the one you were talking about?
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George W Bush did something similar in 2001 and there was similar freeze,though not as drastic, in 2008-09 following the market crash when I was there previously. Those were the ones I was referring to in my post...I am a bit young to have any concept of much that happened during the Reagan years.
 
Sanman said:
George W Bush did something similar in 2001 and there was similar freeze,though not as drastic, in 2008-09 following the market crash when I was there previously. Those were the ones I was referring to in my post...I am a bit young to have any concept of much that happened during the Reagan years.
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The Bush and Obama freezes were very selective, and time limited. Now, the salary freeze, that lasted a few years. Word is that people in the VA are going to start paying more into their pensions as well.
 
G Costanza said:
The only time republicans care about mental health is when it's a scapegoat for a mass shooting. And even then, it's not like they'd actually fund more mental health services.
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Yes! Mental health only matters when it's being blamed for gun violence. And then nothing gets done. And then we're back to blaming the "crazies".


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Here is the reply I received from Dr. Baker, Executive Director of APPIC, when I emailed him:

Baker, Jeff
7:24 AM (6 hours ago)

to me, Central
cleardot.gif

VA Leadership has informed us this currently has no impact on internship or postdoc positions. They will continue to monitor and inform us if this changes.

Sincerely,

Jeff

Jeff Baker, Ph.D., ABPP, Executive Director
Association of Psychology Postdoctoral & Internship Centers (APPIC)
17225 El Camino Real, Suite #170
Houston, TX 77058-2748
[email protected]
P: 832.284.4080 / F: 832.284.4079
 
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WisNeuro said:
This executive action was the best news ever for the VA. Period.

Also, Nickleback is the greatest rock band of all time. Period.
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This must be sarcasm because I happen to have it on good authority that Nickleback is not the greatest rock band of all time. :)
 
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echo3alpha said:
This must be sarcasm because I happen to have it on good authority that Nickleback is not the greatest rock band of all time. :)
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Not according to "data" and "studies." They all say Nickleback is the greatest band of all time. They have sold 50 billion records. Period.
 
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How will it affect physician hires? Was offered an interview next month
 
Regarding full time positions: VA is not exempt, but this NPR article quotes Rob Snyder, acting secretary, stating "The Department of Veterans Affairs intends to exempt anyone it deems necessary for public safety, including front-line caregivers." Some are interpreting this to mean doctors, nurses, and mental health providers are exempt. Some are saying, the White House directly said VA is not exempt so Rob Snyder saying that doesn't hold weight. Only time will tell.

As for trainee positions, my *HOPE* is that since money typically comes from OAA that won't be affected. I've not heard anything official, though.
 
Just to add another wrinkle to this, though. Hire all of the frontline caregivers you want, but without our front office positions, we're getting burned out. They're already shifting a ton of administrative duties, while not scaling back our clinical duties, all the time. I kid you not, we were asked yesterday in a meeting to "do more with less."
 
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@Sanman might be a good source of insight/info here since he is in VA HR and credentialing process now. Maybe he is except because he is already been offered, but just not started yet? USAjobs has posted positions for BOP and VA just today.
 
Sanman said:
George W Bush did something similar in 2001 and there was similar freeze,though not as drastic, in 2008-09 following the market crash when I was there previously. Those were the ones I was referring to in my post...I am a bit young to have any concept of much that happened during the Reagan years.
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I was at VAs during both of those hiring freezes, and it definitely screwed things up but wasn't completely debilitating. We weren't as strapped for staff back then, though. This has the potential to be a huge problem, depending on how long it lasts.
 
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researchgirl said:
Regarding full time positions: VA is not exempt, but this NPR article quotes Rob Snyder, acting secretary, stating "The Department of Veterans Affairs intends to exempt anyone it deems necessary for public safety, including front-line caregivers." Some are interpreting this to mean doctors, nurses, and mental health providers are exempt. Some are saying, the White House directly said VA is not exempt so Rob Snyder saying that doesn't hold weight. Only time will tell.

As for trainee positions, my *HOPE* is that since money typically comes from OAA that won't be affected. I've not heard anything official, though.
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I got the following response from a VA TD:

"The funding that is devoted to training comes from OAA (Office of Academic Affiliations). This funding is the source of the training programs within the VA and is separate than the funding that goes to staff hires. This funding is secure and we have no reason to think that the training programs VA wide will be impacted."

It doesn't seem like it's time to panic (yet).
 
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WisNeuro said:
Dude, the VA HR people are the most inept people I have ever met in my life, I doubt they have any good info, or if they did, that they'd understand it.
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The notion of the HR 'professionals' at VA being handed anything in relation to this situation evokes imagery of a Teletubby being handed a Rubik's cube, turning it over once or twice, then tossing it over their shoulder before skipping off into the sunset humming a song.
 
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The latest word I have is that clinical staff may be excepted from the freeze using the public safety clause. However, OPM is waiting for written clarification. In the mean time, they are being told that it is to be business as usual with filling vacancies until the VA is told specifically that clinical positions are not exempt from the freeze. We will see where I land given my tentative offer. As of now, no idea if I have a new job or not. Glad I did not quit my old one yet.
 
I just got this email from Greg Keilin:

"As many of you are aware, a federal hiring freeze was announced earlier this week. Whether or not psychology internship and residency positions with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and the Bureau of Prisons (BoP) will be affected is, for the moment, not clear.
APPIC is closely monitoring this situation and is in contact with the VA, BoP, and APA trying to gather information and clarify the potential effects on applicants who are participating in the current APPIC Match (2017-2018 internship training year). We realize the timing is problematic given the proximity to the APPIC Rank Order List submission deadline of February 1.
We will continue to share information as it becomes available."

Ok, I am now officially freaking out.


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PsychedTriGirl said:
Otherwise, if they are pulling all funding its not just us that are being affected. It's a whole year of clinicians (psychiatrists, medical doctors, social workers, physicians assistants, etc) that wouldn't get the needed training. I could only see this creating a nightmare for several years to come if this was the case.
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It's a different funding source than FTE staff hires, yes. But it is also still part of the VA employment budget. While this has been safe in the past, it's anyone's guess how far this will expand. Stay optimistic, but I'd still urge everyone to be contacting their representatives to let them know how they feel on this particular issue.
 
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WisNeuro said:
Start calling your congressmen and representatives, people.
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I contacted my congressman and senators. I also sent an email to the director of the office of personnel management, which I suggest everyone else does as well. That's where the money will come from. Www.opm.gov!
 
Oh, I also emailed John C. Baker who is in charge of budgeting at the White House. Opm secretary referred me to him.
 
Just contacted my congressman. This is so terrifying.
 
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WisNeuro said:
Start calling your congressmen and representatives, people.
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This.

We, the People. We are the resistance and (US citizens are) a democracy. Your voice, your vote. ✌️️

The federal hiring freeze will mainly impact those who already work at the VA or other federal facilities (we won't be able to hire more support staff, and possibly some program could become underfunded. Perhaps I'm talking smack and this is *false news* (I'd advocate hard if they tried to cut our Rec Therapy budget. It is one of the strongest interventions for engagement). Although I saw/read/heard that this hiring freeze excludes mental health hiring. Guess we'll wait and see? We are short-staffed as it is, and this may make things worse before they get better. I have a hunch of just that: It may get worse before getting better. Who really knows? Strange times, indeed.

For intern applicants, you're impacted because the marketable spots for internship just got more saturated. There's always Round 2 and also next year. Just do as well as you can on your interviews now and stay positive. From one SDNer to another.

I believe this happened to a colleague few years back on internship (federal hiring freeze for whatever reason). She had already matched, and she just began but didn't get paid for a while. She still focused on her work and began her training and was assigned patients. Then...they resolved it - if I can recollect. (Your much awaited measly PAID internship becomes like all other clinical placements before (UNPAID). I know it sucks, especially if you need to financially support yourself (as in my friend's case). But then I suppose, graduate school stinks, in terms of income generating and financial independence, just in general. Please let't me stop with the gloom and doom (am I projecting at all, anyone?).

I saw a cute little meme that said 'my anxieties have anxieties.' :nailbiting: Now is as good a time as any to practice some that self-care that you may have talked about in internship interviews.

Good luck! :luck:
 
PsychedTriGirl said:
Are you guys calling or writing emails?
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CALL. The internet will have some link to get your state senators and representatives numbers. Leave messages. During business hours, you may get an aide or a telephone operator who mans the calls.

I read/heard/saw our state senators and representatives' staff tallies the three main concerns pertaining to the calls each day, and they generate a report. This is how they will know what issues are important to you and salient for that day, to their constituents. Also, place the call to your state of legal residence/where you are registered to vote.

The same source (friend of friend of congressional staffer) implied that emails could be lost or deleted (sad pun there), and postcards/letters are maybe tossed in the garbage. I really hope they tally the topic before tossing, but gosh...what if they are crooked, & just disregard them and pitch 'em?!

Calls are the best bet.
 
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