VA/other government internships: Effects of federal hiring freeze?

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CheetahGirl said:
This.

We, the People. We are the resistance and (US citizens are) a democracy. Your voice, your vote. ✌️️

The federal hiring freeze will mainly impact those who already work at the VA or other federal facilities (we won't be able to hire more support staff, and possibly some program could become underfunded. Perhaps I'm talking smack and this is *false news* (I'd advocate hard if they tried to cut our Rec Therapy budget. It is one of the strongest interventions for engagement). Although I saw/read/heard that this hiring freeze excludes mental health hiring. Guess we'll wait and see? We are short-staffed as it is, and this may make things worse before they get better. I have a hunch of just that: It may get worse before getting better. Who really knows? Strange times, indeed.

For intern applicants, you're impacted because the marketable spots for internship just got more saturated. There's always Round 2 and also next year. Just do as well as you can on your interviews now and stay positive. From one SDNer to another.

I believe this happened to a colleague few years back on internship (federal hiring freeze for whatever reason). She had already matched, and she just began but didn't get paid for a while. She still focused on her work and began her training and was assigned patients. Then...they resolved it - if I can recollect. (Your much awaited measly PAID internship becomes like all other clinical placements before (UNPAID). I know it sucks, especially if you need to financially support yourself (as in my friend's case). But then I suppose, graduate school stinks, in terms of income generating and financial independence, just in general. Please let't me stop with the gloom and doom (am I projecting at all, anyone?).

I saw a cute little meme that said 'my anxieties have anxieties.' :nailbiting: Now is as good a time as any to practice some that self-care that you may have talked about in internship interviews.

Good luck! :luck:
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I don't know what I would do if my internship was unpaid. I'm not eligible for financial aid due to weird rules about completed credits at my school. And I don't have rich parents or anyone to pay for me to live. I guess rich kids are the only ones who can do these if they go unpaid.
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Mindful1 said:
I don't know what I would do if my internship was unpaid. I'm not eligible for financial aid due to weird rules about completed credits at my school. And I don't have rich parents or anyone to pay for me to live. I guess rich kids are the only ones who can do these if they go unpaid.
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I'm married. So was supported by my spouse's income. If there's a hiring freeze and the VA offers you an internship spot but can't pay you (NOT saying this will be this case, but suppose it was....), my guess would be to consider other options, like accepting another offer or your 'Plan B.' Hopefully, all your eggs are not in one basket at the moment, dependent on this federal hiring freeze issue, right?

Again, 'word on the street' is that it will not impact Mental Health, but based on APPIC's email, who knows right now. Let's wait and see.
 
CheetahGirl said:
I'm married. So was supported by my spouse's income. If there's a hiring freeze and the VA offers you an internship spot but can't pay you (NOT saying this will be this case, but suppose it was.... my guess would be to consider other options, like accepting another offer or your 'Plan B.' Hopefully, all your eggs are not in one basket at the moment, dependent on this federal hiring freeze issue, right?
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I have 13 sites on my ranking list. About half are VA and about half are college counseling. I want to do a VA, because it's where my career goals are, but I wouldn't be able to afford to do an unpaid internship.
 
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The 2/1 rank deadline with all of this uncertainty is super stressing me out. I have 11 VAs and 1 non-VA hospital on my ranked list. Matching at a VA that I love and then finding out later that the internship will be unpaid or nonexistent or something else would be utterly devastating.
 
summerbabe said:
The 2/1 rank deadline with all of this uncertainty is super stressing me out. I have 11 VAs and 1 non-VA hospital on my ranked list. Matching at a VA that I love and then finding out later that the internship will be unpaid or nonexistent or something else would be utterly devastating.
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100% with you on this.
 
summerbabe said:
The 2/1 rank deadline with all of this uncertainty is super stressing me out. I have 11 VAs and 1 non-VA hospital on my ranked list. Matching at a VA that I love and then finding out later that the internship will be unpaid or nonexistent or something else would be utterly devastating.
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Mindful1 said:
I have 13 sites on my ranking list. About half are VA and about half are college counseling. I want to do a VA, because it's where my career goals are, but I wouldn't be able to afford to do an unpaid internship.
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Damn. Hmmm. Gosh. That's tough. Historically, I have never been part of such national pandemonium.

Just reread Greg Keilin's email again. Based on that...it says below that they are closely monitoring it but it is not clear, which gives me the impression to forge forward with your existing plans (i.e., ranking as you were going to anyhow), but I suppose they have to cover their bases (and make this announcement) if a problem arises.

Utterly devastating...sounds painful. I can imagine a site would remove themselves from the match if the potential was there, and your program and/or APPIC would notify you before you got to that point with some remediation. But I am speculating.

Also there is always Round 2. Our site got some good people (with odd luck) in Round 2 when I was on internship. Perhaps some direction from your doctoral program would most likely be in order at this point, especially if all your options are VA sites. It’s tough to tell another person to roll with the punches because internship match is distressing, in and of itself…best of luck is all I can truly offer. I'll hold out hope for all you VA and federal facilities applicants. :luck:

Again, let me not project doom and gloom. You're not alone. And we're all in this together. Your program, APPIC, sites, applicants, SDN, etc.

APPIC POSTDOC-NETWORK
---

As many of you are aware, a federal hiring freeze was announced earlier this week. Whether or not psychology internship and residency positions with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and the Bureau of Prisons (BoP) will be affected is, for the moment, not clear.

APPIC is closely monitoring this situation and is in contact with the VA, BoP, and APA trying to gather information and clarify the potential effects on applicants who are participating in the current APPIC Match (2017-2018 internship training year). We realize the timing is problematic given the proximity to the APPIC Rank Order List submission deadline of February 1.

We will continue to share information as it becomes available.

Sincerely,

Allison Ponce, Ph.D.
Chair, APPIC Board of Directors
 
Same here. I literally couldn't afford an unpaid internship. I'm worried about the binding nature of these contracts with the uncertainty in funding...I don't want to commit to something I can't do. And I have 1 State Hospital among 16 VA sites (def want the VA path). Personally, I think the rank deadline should be pushed back so we can have some informed consent before moving forward and committing...surely there would be some flexibility with getting out of these contracts if it turned out the internship wasn't funded, right? **hopeful thinking**

Mindful1 said:
100% with you on this.
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CowatScratchFever said:
Personally, I think the rank deadline should be pushed back so we can have some informed consent before moving forward and committing...
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100% with you since most of my sites are VAs but also ahhh nooooo don't want to wait any longer!!
 
CheetahGirl said:
CALL. The internet will have some link to get your state senators and representatives numbers. Leave messages. During business hours, you may get an aide or a telephone operator who mans the calls.

I read/heard/saw our state senators and representatives' staff tallies the three main concerns pertaining to the calls each day, and they generate a report. This is how they will know what issues are important to you and salient for that day, to their constituents. Also, place the call to your state of legal residence/where you are registered to vote.

The same source (friend of friend of congressional staffer) implied that emails could be lost or deleted (sad pun there), and postcards/letters are maybe tossed in the garbage. I really hope they tally the topic before tossing, but gosh...what if they are crooked, & just disregard them and pitch 'em?!

Calls are the best bet.
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Yes-- Call. I've heard from several people over the years (including a state representative) that calls get more attention than emails. Blow up the phone lines with calls!
 
Mindful1 said:
I have 13 sites on my ranking list. About half are VA and about half are college counseling. I want to do a VA, because it's where my career goals are, but I wouldn't be able to afford to do an unpaid internship.
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Be mindful that APPIC and the APA are pushing to have a firm answer to this problem before the match deadline. Spend time thinking about rankings assuming that there is funding (as I expect this will be the outcome). It would also be wise to make a backup plan of how you would rank if the answer is 'no', but I don't expect this to be needed. It's less than ideal for sure, but I expect that there will not be a match until an answer is given and that the answer will come rather quickly.

Don't forget to call.
 
I am thinking that the VA training positions such as our internships and post-docs will not be affected by this. It's not just us, the VA is also where many physicians go for their internships and residencies, if I'm not mistaken. I hope that this administration is reasonable/sane enough to be able to see that this is indeed a public safety issue and is really about providing healthcare not just for the vets but for all of us because of the training programs. If not, then this could be the least of our worries. In any case, I'm not going in the bunker just yet.
Good luck to all my colleagues at the VA (or hopefully soon to be @Sanman) as I believe that the VA is extremely important for our field.
 
Justanothergrad said:
Be mindful that APPIC and the APA are pushing to have a firm answer to this problem before the match deadline. Spend time thinking about rankings assuming that there is funding (as I expect this will be the outcome). It would also be wise to make a backup plan of how you would rank if the answer is 'no', but I don't expect this to be needed. It's less than ideal for sure, but I expect that there will not be a match until an answer is given and that the answer will come rather quickly.

Don't forget to call.
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Thank you for the feedback! I just called the offices of both of my state senators and sent an email to my district rep.
 
Hi everyone --I got an email yesterday from the training director of a large VA site who sent this along to all the applicants:

"I expect that folks have concerns and questions about the recently announced federal hiring freeze and its potential impact on the internship Match. I’ve been doing my best to track down information, but reliable news is pretty scant. It appears that federal agencies are working hard to understand and clarify the action, but little definitive information has come down to us.

A few minutes ago, Dr. Ken Jones, the Director of Associated Health Education, in the VA Office of Academic Affiliations (OAA), posted this message to the VA Training Director listserv.

So far, the only formal guidance has been 1) the Presidential Memo:https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...esidential-memorandum-regarding-hiring-freeze and 2) the subsequent statement by the White House Press Secretary, Sean Spicer, that confirmed that VA is covered under the freeze.

In the past, trainee positions were exempted from these freezes, but appear to have been excluded in this action. OAA has sought further guidance from VA leadership and made the case for exempting our trainee positions from this action. The press is reporting that the Acting Secretary has asked for VA health care provider positions to be considered to be excluded under the “public safety exemption.” We would hope that, if granted, clinical trainees would be covered under this umbrella.

The freeze was ordered for 90 days, but there is also a statement that the freeze will end when OMB/OPM “implement” a plan to shrink the size of the federal government. That timeline should end well before the first of the next class of interns and residents are scheduled to be appointed. As you know, Congress has been funding VA on separate, two-year budgetary cycles, and our most recent budget included funding for these positions. It is extremely awkward that the match is occurring during the freeze.

I’ve also been fielding questions from APA, APPIC, and the APA Graduate Student Association.

We definitely have “sand in the gears.”

Director, Associated Health Education
Office of Academic Affiliations (10A2D)
Dept. of Veterans Affairs

At our local site and within the region, there’s been a lot of email chatter about the impact on staff and trainee hiring. I expect that this scene will continue to shift over the next days and weeks, as further orders come from DC and as advocacy groups weigh in.

I wish I had more definitive information to share, but this is a turbulent time and it’ll take a while for things to shake out.
 
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ClinicalPhD225 said:
the freeze will end when OMB/OPM “implement” a plan to shrink the size of the federal government.
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Uh, since when does anything that large and significant happen within 6 months in this federal government. That sounds like a 10 year plan that will be 5 years in the making.
 
WisNeuro said:
I'd still urge everyone to be contacting their representatives to let them know how they feel on this particular issue.
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I agree that calling reps is 100% necessary. I'm also hopeful that everyone here who is calling their reps about this one particular issue which is hitting close to home at the moment will be inspired to make more calls for additional issues moving forward. Perhaps we might not be as directly affected by other executive orders, but that doesn't make them any less worthy of our active resistance. /soapbox

Also, I just received this from my DCT. Similar to what was posted above, but nevertheless it's nice to hear it from multiple sources

I am pasting below a summary posted by one of our students who is the current chair of APAGS and who looked into this pretty thoroughly.

"The APAGS office and I have been in contact with APA's Education Government Relations Office, the VA training community, and APPIC about this. As you can imagine, there is a lot of concern among students applying for internship this year. Here are a few clear facts about the hiring freeze as it pertains to the VA internships that we got from the VA's Office of Academic Affiliation:

(1) The hiring freeze was announced as a 90-day freeze which would end with the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) implements a plan to shrink the size of the federal government. Presumably, this means the freeze will end in April.

(2) Unlike other federal agencies, the VA is funded on a two-year rather than a one-year funding cycle. Right now, Congress has appropriated the funding for our next class of interns/residents. The funding is available to support this training.

(3) In the interim, the VA's acting Secretary has asked OMB/OPF to declare health professions to be exempt from the freeze, and the VA anticipates that clinical trainees might be included under such an umbrella, if this is granted. However, this is not yet a guarantee.

Based on this information, it would seem that the situation is under control and that the VAs will be able to honor their commitments for the 2017-2018 internship year. With that said, it remains a fluid situation that is being monitored very closely by all relevant parties (APA, APPIC, VA, etc.)."
 
Based on the staff meeting I attended today, I would say the most accurate answer regarding internship and potsdocs is "We don't know yet." Because while it's true that OAA money is separate, that it is already there and earmarked, and that there are rumors about some positions (e.g. "front line clinicians" which may include MH) being exempt, we have no official word that we can use that OAA money or that any positions, training or staff, are exempt at this time. We do know that all relevant parties are monitoring everything, passing along feedback, etc.
 
This situation is horrifying. I'm feeling incredibly angry at everyone who was eligible to vote in the last election and chose not to do so. It's a horrible reminder that our votes do matter.
 
So upset by this. I'm grateful to have other options but my first choice is a VA. I hope we get some answers soon and/or the rank order date is pushed back.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
psychRA said:
This situation is horrifying. I'm feeling incredibly angry at everyone who was eligible to vote in the last election and chose not to do so. It's a horrible reminder that our votes do matter.
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Considering our new president didn't win the popular vote--and lost it by almost 3 million votes-- I really don't think that the primary responsibility lies with people who didn't vote. Tbh, your vote only truly counts in terms of influencing the presidential election outcome in about 12 or so states, as this election glaringly shows.
 
This is an email from NCSPP. APPIC has been asked to delay the ranking deadline. We'll just have to wait and see how APPIC responds.

"Good afternoon everyone. As you may have heard in the news, there is a federal freeze on new hirings. In the past, when there have been past federal freezes on hiring, this has not affected the hiring of interns/post-docs by the VAs or BOPs. It is not clear if that is true this time around. As such, APPIC has been asked to delay the match process to give various parties (the VA and BOP) time to clarify what effect this will have on internships. Currently, 20% of internships are at VA sites and a significant number also at the BOPs. I have been in contact with APPIC, APAGS, and APA-GRO, all who are in contact with the VAs, BOPs, and the government in an attempt to find out more information to help us better advise our students.
At this point, what is being considered is: postponing the match so that more information can be gleaned about the potential impact to internship sites at the VAs and BOPs.
Everyone is trying to get as much information as they can from the various government contacts, but the message has been unclear. As soon as I know anymore information, I will keep you informed. Please know that there are many various groups who are all working on trying to find out information so that we know what the potential impact will be on our students and our communities.
Thank you for your patience and for your efforts in reassuring/supporting students who may be experiencing increased anxiety at this time. Please back change me if you have any questions or concerns. The EC has been in communication all day today as well, and we have proposed a list of questions to the various groups so that everyone understands our concerns for our students."



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Ugh... ok, as a person with 18 sites that are all VAs.... Does anyone have any indication of whether internship sites will still be ranking us regardless, even if it looks like it will initially be unfunded? At this point, I'd rather do the unfunded internship than feel like all of my time and thousands of dollars from interviewing has gone to complete waste.
 
1.1 - The Wall Street Journal: VA Gets Support for Plan to Fill Jobs Despite Hiring Freeze, White House announces support for agency’s protection of undefined class of ‘front-line caregivers’ from executive order (25 January, Ben Kesling, 41.3M online visitors/mo; Washington, DC)

The White House on Wednesday explicitly supported the Department of Veterans Affairs plans to continue hiring certain categories of employees despite the Trump administration’s recently announced federal hiring freeze. The VA’s acting Secretary Robert Snyder said in a statement late Tuesday the department would continue to hire for key positions, including “front-line caregivers,” a term the department hasn’t yet fully defined.


Hyperlink to Above


1.2 - The Washington Post (Federal Insider): Federal hiring freeze will be waived for VA jobs with ‘public safety’ missions, agency says (25 January, Lisa Rein, 31.9M online visitors/mo; Washington, DC)

Hours after the White House said that President Trump’s freeze on federal hiring would include the Department of Veterans Affairs, the agency clarified that it plans to continue hiring for jobs with public safety missions. “The Department of Veterans Affairs intends to exempt anyone it deems necessary for public safety, including frontline caregivers,” Robert Snyder, VA’s acting secretary, said in a statement Wednesday.



Hyperlink to Above
 

Attachments

My wife calls our local and state reps most days of the week...mostly to vent about the latest Trump policy or cabinet pick. They know her at this point. They will often let her know what issues are getting feedback from their base. As an example from a few days ago, the staffer told her, "We've been getting flooded today with calls on this." When she asked how many calls had come in, the staffer said, "20."

Calling is so much more influential than an email that the rep will likely never even see.

And don't just voice a complaint about the hiring freeze, call them out on their bull$hit of saying mental health matters but plan to blow 12 billion on a wall. Or how ever many trillions are about to go into some manufactured war that republicans will create in the next year.

Obviously my wife is much more diplomatic.
 
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News headlines today indicate that Republicans in Congress, Democrats in Congress, and the new VA Secretary (Dr. Shulkin) are all urging the White House to exempt VA (or, at least, direct care VA providers of health care services) from the freeze.

Looks like the ball is in squarely in play at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue at this point.
 
Fan_of_Meehl said:
News headlines today indicate that Republicans in Congress, Democrats in Congress, and the new VA Secretary (Dr. Shulkin) are all urging the White House to exempt VA (or, at least, direct care VA providers of health care services) from the freeze.

Looks like the ball is in squarely in play at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue at this point.
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That's great... andddd I don't want those of us who applied to BOPs to get forgotten about 🙁

If you are making calls, please remember to include us too. Lots of consequences related to cutting funding for training correctional psychologists, as our main missions are to provide treatment to reduce recidivism and protect the community (we have lots of other missions, but those resonate with republicans).
 
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glowstick said:
This link isn't working anymore, but you can read the release via the Web Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20170126...esidential-memorandum-regarding-hiring-freeze

Selfishly, I really don't want them to push the Match back. I can't stand waiting any longer. Really just have my fingers crossed that it'll be cleared up in time.
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I sure wish all I had to wait on was submitting my rank order. Rather, I'm waiting to find out if I'll even have an internship to match to after spending 5k on travel and 6 months of my life applying to internships. Oh, and 5 years of my life building my clinical experience to ensure I was a competitive candidate for BOP sites.
 
MMPIinTheSky said:
I sure wish all I had to wait on was submitting my rank order. Rather, I'm waiting to find out if I'll even have an internship to match to after spending 5k on travel and 6 months of my life applying to internships. Oh, and 5 years of my life building my clinical experience to ensure I was a competitive candidate for BOP sites.
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That really sucks. I hope everything turns out well and you get to be at your 1st choice site.
 
G Costanza said:
My wife calls our local and state reps most days of the week...mostly to vent about the latest Trump policy or cabinet pick. They know her at this point. They will often let her know what issues are getting feedback from their base. As an example from a few days ago, the staffer told my wife, "We've been getting flooded today with calls on this." When my wife asked how many calls had come in, the staffer said, "20."

Calling is so much more influential than an email that the rep will likely never even see.

And don't just voice a complaint about the hiring freeze, call them out on their bull$hit of saying mental health matters but plan to blow 12 billion on a wall. Or how ever many trillions are about to go into some manufactured war that republicans will create in the next year.

Obviously my wife is more doplomatic than me.
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I'm glad your wife has more receptive congresspeople than my mother. She frequently calls her reps and senator to politely but strongly voice her disagreement with them on issues, and she's been basically told that they don't care because their districts are so heavily gerrymandered that they don't need or care about her vote.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
I'm glad your wife has more receptive congresspeople than my mother. She frequently calls her reps and senator to politely but strongly voice her disagreement with them on issues, and she's been basically told that they don't care because their districts are so heavily gerrymandered that they don't need or care about her vote.
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Is it even still possible for a higher tier politician to value democracy over "winning"?

How disheartening.

Anyone know of countries with strong English speaking populations that value mental health?
 
What about offering the positions as unfunded? I would rather have an unfunded accredited position at a VA than no position at all.
 
NeuroLady said:
What about offering the positions as unfunded? I would rather have an unfunded accredited position at a VA than no position at all.
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I would hate for that to be the option since it would create 2 tiers of VA applicants, those who can support themselves through partners, family, savings, etc and those who have less social capital and access to resources. I hope that APA, APPIC, etc are considering these issues of social justice.

Also, especially concerning is if we proceed forth with rank on Wednesday, get matched at a VA and come to find out in late spring or summer that these positions will be unfunded, take it or leave it, since there won't be any other options.
 
NeuroLady said:
What about offering the positions as unfunded? I would rather have an unfunded accredited position at a VA than no position at all.
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Not sure if that is possible. APA accreditation has rules against unpaid internships. I think anyway, been a while since I've read the CoA materials thoroughly.
 
summerbabe said:
I would hate for that to be the option since it would create 2 tiers of VA applicants, those who can support themselves through partners, family, savings, etc and those who have less social capital and access to resources. I hope that APA, APPIC, etc are considering these issues of social justice.

Also, especially concerning is if we proceed forth with rank on Wednesday, get matched at a VA and come to find out in late spring or summer that these positions will be unfunded, take it or leave it, since there won't be any other options.
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100% agree here.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
FYI for those that haven't seen- A letter has been sent by the APA president and CEO to the interim secretary of the VA to emphasize the need to place for interns. I can't upload the letter, but one has been sent

Dear APA Colleagues,


Given the ongoing uncertainty regarding the impact of the federal hiring freeze on the VA and the Bureau of Prisons participation in the internship match, I wanted to make sure you were aware that APA sent the attached letter to the Acting Secretary of the VA requesting immediate and clear exemptions for health care providers and trainees at the VA, given the impact this will have on the internship match, our students, and veteran’s health. Congress has also called on the administration to exempt the VA and health care providers, so we hope the Secretary provides some clarity soon- tomorrow would be preferable of course.


We have also requested the Bureau of Prisons provide similar guidance and exempt their internship programs and we will continue to work on this issue and hope agencies can bring some clear guidance so that the match process can move forward.


Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.


Kind Regards,

Dana


Dana Leinbach

Legislative Assistant

Office of Education Government Relations

Education Directorate
American Psychological Association
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WisNeuro said:
Not sure if that is possible. APA accreditation has rules against unpaid internships. I think anyway, been a while since I've read the CoA materials thoroughly.
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That's my thought too. Just had a discussion about that with my supervisors. Can't offer an unpaid internship unless you go through a stringent process and there's no way that would be able to happen before the deadlines anyway even if it was potentially feasible. Sites have to submit their rankings Feb 1, right?
 
singasongofjoy said:
That's my thought too. Just had a discussion about that with my supervisors. Can't offer an unpaid internship unless you go through a stringent process and there's no way that would be able to happen before the deadlines anyway even if it was potentially feasible. Sites have to submit their rankings Feb 1, right?
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Unless APPIC can delay rank day in order to get definitive answers from our ***** presidents administration.
 
If the administration doesn't respond, what about going to the media? I don't think the public is aware of how the hiring freeze will impact clinical training of professions that many deem important.
 
cara susanna said:
If the administration doesn't respond, what about going to the media? I don't think the public is aware of how the hiring freeze will impact clinical training of professions that many deem important.
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I am skeptical of the public's ability to meaningfully digest and care about anything of substance these days as it pertains to anything remotely scientific and/or related to health care.
 
WisNeuro said:
I am skeptical of the public's ability to meaningfully digest and care about anything of substance these days as it pertains to anything remotely scientific and/or related to health care.
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Besides increased aggressiveness by some (in many areas of life), the rise of anti-intellectualism is what I worry the most about. First comes coded language, then "alternative facts", and next...?

Sorry, just frustrated. Politicians don't understand healthcare, administrators within healthcare seem disconnected, and those of us on the frontline are being told to do more with less.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Besides increased military actions, the rise of anti-intellectualism is what I worry the most about. First comes coded language, then "alternative facts", and next...?

Sorry, just frustrated. Politicians don't understand healthcare, administrators within healthcare seem disconnected, and those of us on the frontline are being told to do more with less.
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Amazon product ASIN 0394703170
 
WisNeuro said:
I am skeptical of the public's ability to meaningfully digest and care about anything of substance these days as it pertains to anything remotely scientific and/or related to health care.
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That's entirely the challenge. Any response that invokes reason is difficult/more work to digest and responses need a visceral, emotional component to stick. I do think these impacts on training/service can have that response from the general public. This is one of those areas where the APA needs to be more vocal and less "lets just wait and see and hope that it all works out". Yet again, the APA frustrates me so badly with their idea of what constitutes an 'appropriate' response.
 
jls12h said:
Ugh... ok, as a person with 18 sites that are all VAs.... Does anyone have any indication of whether internship sites will still be ranking us regardless, even if it looks like it will initially be unfunded? At this point, I'd rather do the unfunded internship than feel like all of my time and thousands of dollars from interviewing has gone to complete waste.
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UM...NO!

why are psychologists so eager to work for free??? if you're working 40+ hours, you deserve to get paid for your labor. also, just because you may be fine with working for zero dollars doesn't mean others are. lastly, your mentality of "i'd work for free!" is why psychologists are paid less than our value.
 
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