Vaccine mandates

[greatnt249]

So, I ask YOU, what is YOUR personal solution to the current and future surges and resource shortages? What would YOU suggest we do in America?

You don't know what my opinion/solution to future surges is by this point? You think the way to go about it is to require massive efforts from other people to be able to present unreasonable/less than reasonable solutions requiring a significant amount of time and resources on everyone else's part alongside the most reasonable solution available and hope that people choose for the best? All because they're too stubborn to get two shots?

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[pgg]

That leaves beds and personnel. Some people above are pointing out a lack of beds. You point out the need for personnel. Well, either way, beds or personnel, proactive or reactionary steps can be taken.

So this is a microcosm of the whole national debate and really illustrates why it's so dysfunctional.

You're on a forum of physicians but you're not one. You don't work in health care. (And that's OK. You're welcome here.)

When we say "hospital bed" in our discussions, we are assuming a certain baseline level of knowledge about how health care works. It is implicitly understood by every physician here that a "hospital bed" isn't a flat thing with a mattress for someone sick to lay down upon, but a mattress AND the nursing staff, janitorial staff, nutrition services staff, physician staff, pharmacy staff, on and on and on - that are necessary to care for the person laying on that mattress.

Popping some tents to shelter some mattresses adds a bed in a literal sense but it's not a hospital bed that is useful for caring for people, unless the right people are imported with it. The rate limiting resource is always people.

For scattered events like hurricanes, earthquakes, wildfires, etc it may be helpful to surge supplies and people from an unaffected area to generate "beds" but with a widespread pandemic it doesn't work so well. There is nowhere that can spare ICU staff. The places that aren't over capacity are near it. They can't just let people go.

Maybe I'm just getting old and misremembering the Good Ol' Days™ of my youth, but 20-30 years ago I don't really recall there being such widespread Dunning Kruger. People who are completely unqualified to comment on medicine think they have great ideas that no one with decades of experience in the field has thought of. And they're sincere in thinking they do! I mean, you're not dumb and you're better informed than most by virtue of reading this forum for a while - and yet here we are. You don't understand the most basic issue of all concerning health care resources, but you still feel comfortably qualified to cast scorn and derision on the nation's pandemic response.

It's disheartening.

 

[Leon'sMom]

You don't know what my opinion/solution to future surges is by this point? You think the way to go about it is to require massive efforts from other people to be able to present unreasonable/less than reasonable solutions requiring a significant amount of time and resources on everyone else's part alongside the most reasonable solution available and hope that people choose for the best? All because they're too stubborn to get two shots?

No, I don't know YOUR solution to surges. That is why I am asking you. And if you say that every man, woman, and child needs to be vaccinated, how would YOU accomplish that?

 

[greatnt249]

No, I don't know YOUR solution to surges. That is why I am asking you. And if you say that every man, woman, and child needs to be vaccinated, how would YOU accomplish that?

My solution to surges is to prevent them from happening to begin with. 100% vaccination isn't needed to accomplish that, but apparently suggesting anything less than that leaves room for a sizeable portion of the population to think/believe/demand they belong in the x% of "allowable" nonvaccination, which...*shocker* because of diffusion of responsibility, happens to be a larger percentage than the allowable x%.

I know enough about healthcare logistics to be able to admit that I'm out of my wheelhouse when it comes to actual implementation, but it doesn't take an expert to realize that prevention is the solution to future surges, not reacting to surges. What you are talking about is the equivalent of telling engineers to reinforce a bridge to higher weight tolerances instead of, you know, limiting the number of cars driving across the bridge according to the specifications it was initially built to tolerate under normal circumstances...in the middle of an excess number of cars driving across the bridge to begin with. So since I, being a healthcare professional, can admit my knowledge limitations and acknowledge that handwaving impractical solutions is not the way to go, you should be able to as well. You ask these questions or propose these ideas on the notion that you are providing "solutions," but ultimately aren't in charge or bear any responsibility for implementing the ideas put forward, and then interpret the rejection of those ideas as being "closed minded." The word "slacktivism" comes to mind...

 

[Leon'sMom]

So this is a microcosm of the whole national debate and really illustrates why it's so dysfunctional.

You're on a forum of physicians but you're not one. You don't work in health care. (And that's OK. You're welcome here.)

When we say "hospital bed" in our discussions, we are assuming a certain baseline level of knowledge about how health care works. It is implicitly understood by every physician here that a "hospital bed" isn't a flat thing with a mattress for someone sick to lay down upon, but a mattress AND the nursing staff, janitorial staff, nutrition services staff, physician staff, pharmacy staff, on and on and on - that are necessary to care for the person laying on that mattress.

Popping some tents to shelter some mattresses adds a bed in a literal sense but it's not a hospital bed that is useful for caring for people, unless the right people are imported with it. The rate limiting resource is always people.

For scattered events like hurricanes, earthquakes, wildfires, etc it may be helpful to surge supplies and people from an unaffected area to generate "beds" but with a widespread pandemic it doesn't work so well. There is nowhere that can spare ICU staff. The places that aren't over capacity are near it. They can't just let people go.

Maybe I'm just getting old and misremembering the Good Ol' Days™ of my youth, but 20-30 years ago I don't really recall there being such widespread Dunning Kruger. People who are completely unqualified to comment on medicine think they have great ideas that no one with decades of experience in the field has thought of. And they're sincere in thinking they do! I mean, you're not dumb and you're better informed than most by virtue of reading this forum for a while - and yet here we are. You don't understand the most basic issue of all concerning health care resources, but you still feel comfortably qualified to cast scorn and derision on the nation's pandemic response.

It's disheartening.

I won't argue anything you've said about what constitutes a "hospital bed." Like I've previously stated, I work in a large hospital that was hit early and hard by Covid. I'm just sharing things that were done in my state that might be extrapolated to other places that are currently hard hit. Even though our Covid numbers are currently relatively low, our census is high and we still have that mobile ER unit out front for triage. Of course, I agree with your definition and how difficult it is to reproduce a functioning "bed" on the fly. Like I said, less than ideal but better than nothing.

I'm not casting scorn and derision on the nation's pandemic response any more than any other poster here discussing the topic. I'm participating in a conversation about vaccine mandates and Covid surges. I don't see what is so horrible about coming up with multi-pronged approaches to problems.

I think you make wrong assumptions about what I'm trying to communicate because you don't agree with my politics. You make woefully incorrect assumptions about me personally and professionally. But as long as I was able to set the record straight (see paragraph 1), I forgive you. Peace.

 

[Leon'sMom]

My solution to surges is to prevent them from happening to begin with. 100% vaccination isn't needed to accomplish that, but apparently suggesting anything less than that leaves room for a sizeable portion of the population to think/believe/demand they belong in the x% of "allowable" nonvaccination, which...*shocker* because of diffusion of responsibility, happens to be a larger percentage than the allowable x%.

I know enough about healthcare logistics to be able to admit that I'm out of my wheelhouse when it comes to actual implementation, but it doesn't take an expert to realize that prevention is the solution to future surges, not reacting to surges. What you are talking about is the equivalent of telling engineers to reinforce a bridge to higher weight tolerances instead of, you know, limiting the number of cars driving across the bridge according to the specifications it was initially built to tolerate under normal circumstances...in the middle of an excess number of cars driving across the bridge to begin with. So since I, being a healthcare professional, can admit my knowledge limitations and acknowledge that handwaving impractical solutions is not the way to go, you should be able to as well. You ask these questions or propose these ideas on the notion that you are providing "solutions," but ultimately aren't in charge or bear any responsibility for implementing the ideas put forward, and then interpret the rejection of those ideas as being "closed minded." The word "slacktivism" comes to mind...

How? How can YOU achieve adequate vaccination of the public? Is that something that YOU or the government with all of its power and means can actually achieve? Is YOUR solution achievable?

 

[chessknt]

So this is a microcosm of the whole national debate and really illustrates why it's so dysfunctional.

You're on a forum of physicians but you're not one. You don't work in health care. (And that's OK. You're welcome here.)

When we say "hospital bed" in our discussions, we are assuming a certain baseline level of knowledge about how health care works. It is implicitly understood by every physician here that a "hospital bed" isn't a flat thing with a mattress for someone sick to lay down upon, but a mattress AND the nursing staff, janitorial staff, nutrition services staff, physician staff, pharmacy staff, on and on and on - that are necessary to care for the person laying on that mattress.

Popping some tents to shelter some mattresses adds a bed in a literal sense but it's not a hospital bed that is useful for caring for people, unless the right people are imported with it. The rate limiting resource is always people.

For scattered events like hurricanes, earthquakes, wildfires, etc it may be helpful to surge supplies and people from an unaffected area to generate "beds" but with a widespread pandemic it doesn't work so well. There is nowhere that can spare ICU staff. The places that aren't over capacity are near it. They can't just let people go.

Maybe I'm just getting old and misremembering the Good Ol' Days™ of my youth, but 20-30 years ago I don't really recall there being such widespread Dunning Kruger. People who are completely unqualified to comment on medicine think they have great ideas that no one with decades of experience in the field has thought of. And they're sincere in thinking they do! I mean, you're not dumb and you're better informed than most by virtue of reading this forum for a while - and yet here we are. You don't understand the most basic issue of all concerning health care resources, but you still feel comfortably qualified to cast scorn and derision on the nation's pandemic response.

It's disheartening.

Indeed the cult of ignorance has become a full blown movement. Everybody thinks the internet makes them an expert if they read for a few hours and that they are somehow remotely qualified to disagree or argue with someone who is an actual expert with decades of experience. Not pandering to this ridiculous facade is elitism, trying to argue in circles with them makes you pendantic and dismissive when you ignore their flawed sources—you can’t win. It is absolutely the root of a lot of problems right now and there is no solution.

 

[greatnt249]

How? How can YOU achieve adequate vaccination of the public? Is that something that YOU or the government with all of its power and means can actually achieve? Is YOUR solution achievable?

I "personally" can't achieve adequate vaccination of the public, and apparently we haven't all been able to come to the reasonable conclusion that it's the right thing to do as a society, so now the government has stepped in. Because apparently this is a serious enough situation that they felt compelled to step in because we as a society couldn't muster enough collective energy to behave in a way that would suggest to the government that they didn't have to step in.

Asking me if my solution is achievable makes the assumption that your solution is equally as achievable; this is a false dichotomy. The logistics behind bolstering one hospital's resources to avoid being overwhelmed is onerous enough, let alone numerous hospitals across state lines. It's simply not a sustainable solution. You can't build enough ventilators to sustain or even meet the need for them. Simply put, you can't keep pushing healthcare resources to the brink of exhaustion and then get mad that the government didn't do enough to anticipate something like this happening. Your taxpayer dollars were spent funding vaccine research, and, quite frankly, we got not one but several products out of it that work much better than anticipated under perhaps the most heavy research scrutiny you could ask for. We should all be so lucky every time a new treatment comes out to have this degree of scrutiny. This pandemic should be mitigated or over by now as a result of this, but it isn't. You know what I didn't anticipate? Over a third of Americans being in a faux uproar over getting 2 shots to restore some sense of normalcy to our lives. And to boot, the people that did get vaccinated have to live with the ongoing consequences overwhelmingly caused by those who didn't. Vaccination is likely the easiest, the most effective, and most SUSTAINABLE route to staving off these issues in the future.

 

[Matty44]

1. School vaccine mandates have been around long before COVID.

2. What's worse, not being allowed to go to school because you aren't vaccinated, or not being allowed to go to school because schools have to be continually shut down with each new case/outbreak and quarantining of contacts?

3. The government hasn't forced you to stay at home if you aren't vaccinated.

4. What's more bothersome to you, a government vaccine mandate, or circumventing a mandate by claiming religious/other exemption when that a) religion doesn't actually forbid vaccination and/or b) that individual doesn't actually espouse those beliefs but only claims to do so? Because that's what's also happening in this country; not only are people taking a laissez-faire approach to a public health crisis, they're willingly and actively being fraudulent in doing so.

I also have to ask, why is a vaccine mandate the hill people are willing to die on? If people are this upset, then the fact that we still have to register for the Selective Service is really going to blow their minds. After all, the government could decide to reinstate the draft at any time.

1. That’s true, but only a handful of states don’t have some kind of religious or philosophical exemption that you can get and still go to school. Also, I don’t know how many vaccines were mandated in school immediately after they were created/approved. Maybe it’s a lot, but I don’t know the answer to that.

2. Yeah, I hear ya, but not being allowed to go cause of not getting vaccinated is punitive, while school shut downs/remote learning is a result of many factors and can’t be blamed solely on unvaccinated people. Remember, this virus still spreads plenty among the vaccinated.

3. I’m aware. We are discussing hypotheticals as a matter of determining value systems and what should and shouldn’t be within the purview of governmental powers.

4. I mean, I don’t think a mandate is appropriate and I don’t think lying is right. But is claiming a false exemption to avoid a mandate you deem wrong/unconstitutional/authoritarian/whatever ethically wrong? Thats a deep ethical/philosophical question I suppose.

 

[greatnt249]

1. That’s true, but only a handful of states don’t have some kind of religious or philosophical exemption that you can get and still go to school. Also, I don’t know how many vaccines were mandated in school immediately after they were created. Maybe it’s a lot, but I don’t know the answer to that.

2. Yeah, I hear ya, but not being allowed to go cause of not getting vaccinated is punitive, while school shut downs/remote learning is a result of many factors and can’t be blamed solely on unvaccinated people. Remember, this virus still spreads plenty among the vaccinated.

3. I’m aware. We are discussing hypotheticals as a matter of determining value systems and what should and shouldn’t be within the purview of governmental powers.

4. I mean, I don’t think a mandate is appropriate and I don’t think lying is right. But is claiming a false exemption to avoid a mandate you deem wrong/unconstitutional/authoritarian/whatever ethically wrong? Thats are deep ethical/philosophical question I suppose.

I'm sure adherent members of certain religions would find it incredibly offensive that nonmembers are using them superficially to gain an exemption from getting the vaccine, especially if that religion doesn't actually prohibit vaccination to begin with. What's the next thing we need, religion membership cards? Not to mention that a brief Internet search suggests that very few religions expressly prohibit or discourage vaccination, so how this is a popular and/or successful strategy is beyond me.

 

[Matty44]

I'm sure adherent members of certain religions would find it incredibly offensive that nonmembers are using them superficially to gain an exemption from getting the vaccine, especially if that religion doesn't actually prohibit vaccination to begin with. What's the next thing we need, religion membership cards? Not to mention that a brief Internet search suggests that very few religions expressly prohibit or discourage vaccination, so how this is a popular and/or successful strategy is beyond me.

I don’t know either. I hadn’t heard much about that honestly until you brought it up.

 

[nimbus]

Just curious. Anybody have a list of religions that forbid vaccinations? I know the pope calls it a moral duty and mandates vaccination for those in Vatican City.

Vatican orders all employees to get COVID vaccine or weekly testing

Pope Francis has called getting the shots an act of moral duty.

www.axios.com

 

[FutureInternist]

Just curious. Anybody have a list of religions that forbid vaccinations? I know the pope calls it a moral duty and mandates vaccination for those in Vatican City.

Vatican orders all employees to get COVID vaccine or weekly testing

Pope Francis has called getting the shots an act of moral duty.

www.axios.com

And he is being called a hypocrite for it.
Can you imagine….. the POPE being called a hypocrite by Catholics…. Although IF one is to call him or anyone in Vatican it should be for the whole “move priests who sexually abused kids to another parish and not tell anyone” crime.

I liked what one hospital system did where they gave a list of other meds that use fetal cells and made them sign that they would not take any of those meds… completely unenforceable but may serve as an eye opener to these doofuses.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

 

[chessknt]

Just curious. Anybody have a list of religions that forbid vaccinations? I know the pope calls it a moral duty and mandates vaccination for those in Vatican City.

Vatican orders all employees to get COVID vaccine or weekly testing

Pope Francis has called getting the shots an act of moral duty.

www.axios.com

Vaccine exemption letters – Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

www.spaghettimonster.org

Not quite what you were asking but if we must respect a pro-COVID religion we must respect them all.

 

[nimbus]

And he is being called a hypocrite for it.
Can you imagine….. the POPE being called a hypocrite by Catholics…. Although IF one is to call him or anyone in Vatican it should be for the whole “move priests who sexually abused kids to another parish and not tell anyone” crime.

I liked what one hospital system did where they gave a list of other meds that use fetal cells and made them sign that they would not take any of those meds… completely unenforceable but may serve as an eye opener to these doofuses.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

Found it.

 

[nimbus]

Vaccine exemption letters – Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

www.spaghettimonster.org

Not quite what you were asking but if we must respect a pro-COVID religion we must respect them all.

I wonder what John Frum would say about COVID vaccines.

In John They Trust

South Pacific villagers worship a mysterious American they call John Frum - believing he'll one day shower their remote island with riches

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[vector2]

. Also, I don’t know how many vaccines were mandated in school immediately after they were created/approved.

How many diseases in modern history kept kids out of school for months and months on end secondary to their virulence? How many diseases in modern history caused crisis conditions in hundreds of children's hospitals nationwide?

 

[vector2]

From June, before the biggest August delta surge which affected children in the form of more admissions for severe disease and the overwhelming of children's hospitals. The case is obviously much more compelling now, at least for people who inform their opinions based on the word of physicians and scientists and not infowars and fox news.

Considering Mandatory Vaccination of Children for COVID-19

Herculean efforts are ongoing to develop vaccines against the severe acute respiratory syndrome 2 new coronavirus that causes the disease known as coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The World Health Organization lists >100 candidate vaccines, with several already in clinical trials and at...

pediatrics.aappublications.org

 

[Neopolymath]

Dozens???? Have you ever been inside a hospital in real life?

This poster refuses to state what their profession is besides their husband is in healthcare so based on their posts I'm gonna go with probably not.

 

[Leon'sMom]

This poster refuses to state what their profession is besides their husband is in healthcare so based on their posts I'm gonna go with probably not.

Because many of you seem fixated on one hyperbolic number I gave, allow me to more accurately say:
If ICU nurse 1 patient; Step-down nurse 1-2 patients; floor nurse prob 6 on average, outpatient/infusion center nurse dozens, ER nurse depends on the night.

Nothing like missing the whole point: One nurse fired due to a vaccine mandate is one nurse needing to be replaced. That was my point. In a time of staffing needs is it wise to fire anyone for being unvaccinated? It is my OPINION that we shouldn't fire someone for that reason. Others have a different OPINION. That's fine. It's okay to agree to respectfully disagree.

Are the inaccurate characterizations (also called lies) about me really necessary? IMO, these snide comments do more to malign your own character than mine. But you do you, and I'll do me.

 

[Neopolymath]

Because many of you seem fixated on one hyperbolic number I gave, allow me to more accurately say:
If ICU nurse 1 patient; Step-down nurse 1-2 patients; floor nurse prob 6 on average, outpatient/infusion center nurse dozens, ER nurse depends on the night.

Nothing like missing the whole point: One nurse fired due to a vaccine mandate is one nurse needing to be replaced. That was my point. In a time of staffing needs is it wise to fire anyone for being unvaccinated? It is my OPINION that we shouldn't fire someone for that reason. Others have a different OPINION. That's fine. It's okay to agree to respectfully disagree.

Are the inaccurate characterizations (also called lies) about me really necessary? IMO, these snide comments do more to malign your own character than mine. But you do you, and I'll do me.

It's not a snide comment. Chill out. You only post stuff in political threads and sometimes have frankly bizarre opinions that make me and several others wonder why you are even on a website for physicians and med students in the first place.

Feel free to refute it by posting like an actual doctor from time to time.

 

[chessknt]

It's not a snide comment. Chill out. You only post stuff in political threads and sometimes have frankly bizarre opinions that make me and several others wonder why you are even on a website for physicians and med students in the first place.

Feel free to refute it by posting like an actual doctor from time to time.

1:1 icu ratio 24+:1 infusion center ratio. Doctor status confirmed very knowledgeable

 

[doctalaughs]

Why does anyone think a well-designed “mandate” wouldn’t work? Every company that has mandated vaccines has had 98+% compliance when the penalty has been termination from work. And this has been held up as lawful in multiple lawsuits.

All the government has to do is “mandate” that any company or school that continues to employ unvaccinated workers (or attendees) has to pay an extra “covid” tax, say 10% above the normal tax rate.

I’m pretty sure we’d quickly have 90%+ vaccination rates quickly in this country. And it would be totally fair too - we could use the extra money to build more hospitals and train more healthcare workers to absorb the costs of those who choose not to be part of the solution!

 

[greatnt249]

Because many of you seem fixated on one hyperbolic number I gave, allow me to more accurately say:
If ICU nurse 1 patient; Step-down nurse 1-2 patients; floor nurse prob 6 on average, outpatient/infusion center nurse dozens, ER nurse depends on the night.

Nothing like missing the whole point: One nurse fired due to a vaccine mandate is one nurse needing to be replaced. That was my point. In a time of staffing needs is it wise to fire anyone for being unvaccinated? It is my OPINION that we shouldn't fire someone for that reason. Others have a different OPINION. That's fine. It's okay to agree to respectfully disagree.

Are the inaccurate characterizations (also called lies) about me really necessary? IMO, these snide comments do more to malign your own character than mine. But you do you, and I'll do me.

The nurses quitting or being fired are going to quickly realize they don't actually hold any bargaining power if enough hospital systems mandate vaccination. I doubt many have the scruples to stay perma-retired on principle if no one is willing to hire them, and I doubt there are going to be many hospitals left willing to be a safe-haven for vaccine hold-outs.

 

[Leon'sMom]

All the government has to do is “mandate” that any company or school that continues to employ unvaccinated workers (or attendees) has to pay an extra “covid” tax, say 10% above the normal tax rate.

See page 168 of the 3.5T BBB bill currently being debated in Congress.

 

[nimbus]

The Onion….

Nurse Carefully Weighs Whether She Better Off Getting Vaccine Or Losing Job And Dying

UTICA, NY—Blasting state officials for putting her into such an “impossible position,” local nurse Sophia Wood confirmed Wednesday that she was carefully weighing whether she was better off getting the vaccine or losing her job and dying. “On the plus side, if get vaccinated, I could get to...

www.theonion.com

Tucker Carlson Announces He Putting Life On Line By Getting Booster Shot For Investigation Into Covid Vaccine

WASHINGTON—In an effort to dare pry where the mainstream media would not, Tucker Carlson announced Thursday that he would be putting his life on the line by getting a booster shot for a Fox News investigation into the Covid-19 vaccine. “God only knows what will happen to me when I take this...

www.theonion.com

 

[vector2]

Are the inaccurate characterizations (also called lies) about me really necessary? IMO, these snide comments do more to malign your own character than mine. But you do you, and I'll do me.

I don't think you need anyone else's help maligning your own character if you were making posts like these a week before Jan 6th

 

[DoctwoB]

Quote from Heinlein about the future fall of America seems oddly prescient.

their citizens glorified their mythology of ‘rights’... and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure.

 

[vector2]

U.S. Judge upholds COVID-19 vaccine requirement for those with 'natural immunity'​

Sept 30 (Reuters) - A U.S. judge upheld the University of California's COVID-19 vaccine requirement against a challenge by a professor who alleged he had immunity due to a prior coronavirus infection, in what appears to be the first ruling on the issue.

U.S. District Court Judge James Selna in Santa Ana, California, said the university system acted rationally to protect public health by mandating the vaccine and not exempting individuals with some level of immunity from an infection.

More than 43 million Americans have had confirmed cases of COVID-19 and some opponents of vaccinations have argued that immunity from an infection negates the need for an inoculation.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Aug. 6 that a study showed vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity gained from prior infection, which wanes over time.

On Wednesday, a group of physicians who are Republican members of Congress wrote to the CDC to urge the agency to acknowledge natural immunity.

The lawmakers said if the growing number of vaccine mandates ignore natural immunity it could lead to labor shortages as people are fired for failing to get a shot. Their letter said such mandates could even trigger a security crisis because up to 20% of the military faces "separation" and many of them "likely have natural immunity."

Selna's ruling denied a motion for a preliminary injunction by Aaron Kheriaty. And while Selna said the professor at the University of California, Irvine School of Medicine did not show a likelihood of success, Kheriaty said he plans to continue the litigation.

He told Reuters he plans to use the discovery process to determine how the policy was formulated and to question the university's expert witnesses about their reasoning for rejecting his arguments on natural immunity.

The university did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

U.S. Judge upholds COVID-19 vaccine requirement for those with 'natural immunity'

A U.S. judge upheld the University of California's COVID-19 vaccine requirement against a challenge by a professor who alleged he had immunity due to a prior coronavirus infection, in what appears to be the first ruling on the issue.

www.reuters.com

 

[FutureInternist]

The Onion….

Nurse Carefully Weighs Whether She Better Off Getting Vaccine Or Losing Job And Dying

UTICA, NY—Blasting state officials for putting her into such an “impossible position,” local nurse Sophia Wood confirmed Wednesday that she was carefully weighing whether she was better off getting the vaccine or losing her job and dying. “On the plus side, if get vaccinated, I could get to...

www.theonion.com

Tucker Carlson Announces He Putting Life On Line By Getting Booster Shot For Investigation Into Covid Vaccine

WASHINGTON—In an effort to dare pry where the mainstream media would not, Tucker Carlson announced Thursday that he would be putting his life on the line by getting a booster shot for a Fox News investigation into the Covid-19 vaccine. “God only knows what will happen to me when I take this...

www.theonion.com

Hard to distinguish from the actual garbage that FauxNews spews in order to keep its base angry and revved up for elections

 

[vector2]

Redirect Notice

 

[narcotics999]

Redirect Notice

Will Mr. Newson live broadcast his young children to get the vaccine?

 

[DoctwoB]

Will Mr. Newson live broadcast his young children to get the vaccine?

Probably not for privacy reasons? Or are you saying he won't vax his kids?

Dude was a hypocrite for dining out when others were not allowed to. Has actually done a pretty good job managing the pandemic though.

 

[nimbus]

Vaccination-related employee departures at 55 hospitals, health systems

Health systems and states have continued to announce COVID-19 vaccination requirements for employees. Amid these requirements, some organizations have fired workers for noncompliance, and workers have quit over the policies.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

1,400 unvaccinated workers leave Northwell Health

A total of 1,400 employees of New Hyde Park, N.Y.-based Northwell Health either resigned or were terminated for refusing to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a spokesperson confirmed to Becker's Oct. 4.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

I’m surprised Northwell had so many…..1400/76000. We’ve only had 0.5% of hospital employees and 4/3000 medical staff still unvaxxed.

 

[IMGASMD]

Vaccination-related employee departures at 55 hospitals, health systems

Health systems and states have continued to announce COVID-19 vaccination requirements for employees. Amid these requirements, some organizations have fired workers for noncompliance, and workers have quit over the policies.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

1,400 unvaccinated workers leave Northwell Health

A total of 1,400 employees of New Hyde Park, N.Y.-based Northwell Health either resigned or were terminated for refusing to get vaccinated against COVID-19, a spokesperson confirmed to Becker's Oct. 4.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

I’m surprised Northwell had so many…..1400/76000. We’ve only had 0.5% of hospital employees and 4/3000 medical staff still unvaxxed.

Wow. Out of all places. I would hope people who live in NY (especially close to nyc) would try to protect themselves.

 

[vector2]

Wow. Out of all places. I would hope people who live in NY (especially close to nyc) would try to protect themselves.

That mightve been system wide which includes some outerborough places that are more anti-vaxxy

 

[IMGASMD]

That mightve been system wide which includes some outerborough places that are more anti-vaxxy

I really was hoping that’s the case…..

I went on to check. Most of their hospitals are within an hour of nyc.

Sad, actually. When the epicenter of the US, cannot acknowledge the fact that it is real.

 

[nimbus]

That mightve been system wide which includes some outerborough places that are more anti-vaxxy

Staten Island University Hospital is part of their system.

 

[IMGASMD]

Staten Island University Hospital is part of their system.

That’s the better of the two hospitals on Staten Island…..

 

[Airway]

Sigh.

 

[nimbus]

Sigh.

ADIOS!!

 

[anonperson]

Sigh.

What is going on in the world that this vaccine is making people so crazy?

I know for a fact that UCLA requires vaccinations for things like MMR, influenza etc if you are employed by them.

Dr. Rake is UCLA trained and in my previous interactions with him several years ago was a reasonable anesthesiologist.

The story has hit the LA times now and will likely grow.

There is a OB GYN group where a doc is leaving the group (been with them for ~10 years) and leaving for Florida because of the vaccine mandates. It's nuts.

At this point, it can't just be the safety aspect of the vaccine. How many hundreds of millions have gotten the vaccine with minimal issue? We are finally on the cutting edge of medicine and have created effective and safe vaccines for novel diseases that have devastated parts of the world in a relatively short period of time.

Instead of celebrating this, a large segment of the population has dug in their heels and are acting like two year olds.

"I don't want the vaccine and you can't make me"

 

[nimbus]

Vaccination-related employee departures at 55 hospitals, health systems

Health systems and states have continued to announce COVID-19 vaccination requirements for employees. Amid these requirements, some organizations have fired workers for noncompliance, and workers have quit over the policies.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[maxxor]

What is going on in the world that this vaccine is making people so crazy?

I know for a fact that UCLA requires vaccinations for things like MMR, influenza etc if you are employed by them.

Dr. Rake is UCLA trained and in my previous interactions with him several years ago was a reasonable anesthesiologist.

The story has hit the LA times now and will likely grow.

There is a OB GYN group where a doc is leaving the group (been with them for ~10 years) and leaving for Florida because of the vaccine mandates. It's nuts.

At this point, it can't just be the safety aspect of the vaccine. How many hundreds of millions have gotten the vaccine with minimal issue? We are finally on the cutting edge of medicine and have created effective and safe vaccines for novel diseases that have devastated parts of the world in a relatively short period of time.

Instead of celebrating this, a large segment of the population has dug in their heels and are acting like two year olds.

"I don't want the vaccine and you can't make me"

Aside from other regeneron conflicts of interest, It’s gotten to the point where I can’t help but wonder if certain political strategists have decided that by being incalcitrant and dragging on the pandemic, it will help a certain political party in the 2022 midterm elections. The entire propaganda apparatus has been activated for this outcome, so this is to be expected. If this hypothesis is true, I can’t wait to see the attacks on the Merck drug.

 

[nimbus]

Aside from other regeneron conflicts of interest, It’s gotten to the point where I can’t help but wonder if certain political strategists have decided that by being incalcitrant and dragging on the pandemic, it will help a certain political party in the 2022 midterm elections. The entire propaganda apparatus has been activated for this outcome, so this is to be expected. If this hypothesis is true, I can’t wait to see the attacks on the Merck drug.

Judging by their love of ivermectin they’re big fans of Merck.

 

[IMGASMD]

Recently got my booster. Paying for it. And you have all these dummies running around denying it ain’t real. The vaccine is harmful.

All them mother****ers all need to signed a waiver that they won’t come to hospitals and use any medical resources. You get a dose of ivermectin and ivig. That’s IT. No more no less.

 

[aafisahar]

Just did a TEE for a 30M with covid for massive stroke. Sure, he'll survive, but he's getting a peg tomorrow and has a dense hemiplegia on the right.

Surviving isn't the only metric you should be looking at. And if it is, it 100% means you haven't touched a patient or been in the hospital for the past 18 months.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Judging by their love of ivermectin they’re big fans of Merck.

'Entirely Unsurprising': Merck Slammed for 4,000% Markup of Taxpayer-Funded Covid Drug | Flipboard

commondreams.org - "Another example of Big Pharma reaping billions from public investment into research by charging extortionate, rip-off prices for lifesaving Covid …

flipboard.com

 

[DoctwoB]

Quoting a mark up based on the cost of production of a small molecule pill is disingenuous. Pills of almost any type cost near nothing to produce. The cost is in the R&D, trials, approval, and marketing.

$700 for a covid antiviral seems a bit steep, but is probably a hell of a bargain compared to the monoclonal antibodies, and is probably cost effective if it reduces hospitalization by as much as it claims. All the usual caveats of list price != actual price usually apply, as well, the real price for insurers is probably 200-300$

Personally, I'd rather they charge $100 for the covid pill, and up the cost of Ivermectin to $1000/pill. Call it a stupid tax and ride the profit wave (which would be shared by GoFundMe)

 

[DoctwoB]

Just did a TEE for a 30M with covid for massive stroke. Sure, he'll survive, but he's getting a peg tomorrow and has a dense hemiplegia on the right.

Surviving isn't the only metric you should be looking at. And if it is, it 100% means you haven't touched a patient or been in the hospital for the past 18 months.

Non-death risks are hard for lay people to wrap their head around. As a surgeon everyone wants to know their risk of dying during surgery, which is one of the last things I'm worried about.

As a surgeon (knocking on all the wood) I've never had a patient die on the table. I've had several folks with PEs/CVAs that are dispo'd to SNF with **** quality of life that probably eventually end up dying, but won't show up on any mortality stats. That's what you should be scared of post major surgery, and likely with COVID as well.