Vet student depression

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nelonvet

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Interesting thoughts. I think the blog entry itself is a bit disorganized and disjointed, but I agree with most of the thoughts expressed.

I know I have availed myself of our counseling services on many occasions. As the author mentions, there are a great many causes for depression and burnout in vet school. I'm so glad that our school has a counselor specifically for veterinary students and staff, whose office is within the same building as our lecture hall.

What the author said regarding personal relationships and the pursuit of specialization hits very close to home. I've spent an inordinate amount of time being extremely depressed about this very thing in the past several months and actually am not looking forward to life after graduation as I thought I would--feel way too alone. Sigh.

Anyways, good reading.
 
I have said many times that Penn needs a counselor just for us. I'm glad KSU has that for you guys. The university-wide counseling center basically just tries to pawn us off on private practice referrals because of our schedule... really? I don't think private practices are going to like our schedule either. And I'm pretty sure we need the counseling MORE because our schedule is so insane. That and we pay tuition like everyone else...
 
alliecat44 said:
I know I have availed myself of our counseling services on many occasions. As the author mentions, there are a great many causes for depression and burnout in vet school. I'm so glad that our school has a counselor specifically for veterinary students and staff, whose office is within the same building as our lecture hall.
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Just out of curiosity...what does your counselor say about this topic in general...as in what advice does he/she give you with respect to the points brought up?
 
bunnity said:
I have said many times that Penn needs a counselor just for us. I'm glad KSU has that for you guys. The university-wide counseling center basically just tries to pawn us off on private practice referrals because of our schedule... really? I don't think private practices are going to like our schedule either. And I'm pretty sure we need the counseling MORE because our schedule is so insane. That and we pay tuition like everyone else...
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Wow, that's really crappy. At Davis, the vet school pays a big part of the salaries of a couple counselors so that they are available to vet students; they have an office on the vet school campus so that you don't have to trek over to main campus, and extended hours so that you can see them after classes/labs are done if you can't find a time during the day. Also, the main campus counseling service has a 10-visit limit (I hope there's a loophole for the actually depressed college students), but the vet students get unlimited access.
 
at MSU (mich.) we also have a paid full time counselor in our building (just a hallway down from our lecture hall). She also puts on all sorts of personal wellness seminars. I haven't actually used her services, but she seems really nice and it's nice to know that she's there. I was originally surprised as to why the college would have it's own counselor, but being in it as a student I understand why now.
 
Sounds like some of the other schools are doing an awesome job.
I would love to hear what other vet schools are doing and maybe talk to the people at Penn about getting something better set up for us.
 
It says misery loves company, introverts breed introverts, or something like that. It seems to me, that is exactly what they easily accept to vet-school; those that have no social life, nor do they have any clue how to treat people, or talk to people. When they finally graduate, they cannot socialize with clients to save their life. One of the veterinarians I used to work for, was always telling me how the admissions committees are, "screwing up" the profession. He said that they need to allow more students in who may not be perfect academically, but get decent grades in addition to their involvement. He would always say, "Those that are super involved in life, and get decent grades should be the ones getting accepted." I tend to agree with that assessment, and so does this blogger. Some of the vet-schools out there, are seeing the problems associated with the current model, and have changed their philosophies.
 
cowdocsoon said:
It says misery loves company, introverts breed introverts, or something like that. It seems to me, that is exactly what they easily accept to vet-school; those that have no social life, nor do they have any clue how to treat people, or talk to people. When they finally graduate, they cannot socialize with clients to save their life. One of the veterinarians I used to work for, was always telling me how the admissions committees are, "screwing up" the profession. He said that they need to allow more students in who may not be perfect academically, but get decent grades in addition to their involvement. He would always say, "Those that are super involved in life, and get decent grades should be the ones getting accepted." I tend to agree with that assessment, and so does this blogger. Some of the vet-schools out there, are seeing the problems associated with the current model, and have changed their philosophies.
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Hmm, I agree to an extent. I think that grades are still important in vet school admissions as well as a realistic view of the profession (through vet experience, etc). If you can't get through the first two years of the curriculum, it isn't going to matter if you have amazing people skills, because you won't be able to pass your boards. But is there really that much of a difference between a 4.0 and a 3.5? In terms of vet school education, most likely not. (Nor do I see that big of a difference between a 3.3 and a 3.0, which is like the amazing unwritten cut-off for vet school admissions for some reason.)
 
cowdocsoon said:
It says misery loves company, introverts breed introverts, or something like that. It seems to me, that is exactly what they easily accept to vet-school; those that have no social life, nor do they have any clue how to treat people, or talk to people. When they finally graduate, they cannot socialize with clients to save their life. One of the veterinarians I used to work for, was always telling me how the admissions committees are, "screwing up" the profession. He said that they need to allow more students in who may not be perfect academically, but get decent grades in addition to their involvement. He would always say, "Those that are super involved in life, and get decent grades should be the ones getting accepted." I tend to agree with that assessment, and so does this blogger. Some of the vet-schools out there, are seeing the problems associated with the current model, and have changed their philosophies.
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Ooooh! I think you nailed something here... with the kind of people they're admitting...not only do they seem to admit the "wrong" kind of people socially, but i also believe that those people, due to the strains of vet school...also further depress their social abilities, communication skills, and social maturity by not communicating enough with others while they study and try to do well...if you get my drift...they don't know how to deal with the "outside" world and people and the vet school curriculum/lifestyle doesn't help any...

P.S. Also came across a study that showed that vet's in the UK have a 4 time greater suicide rate than general population and 2x greater suicide rate than any other medical profession...no such study for the U.S. though...i doubt its much different...the u.k. seems to have a lot more mental health support for vets though...
 
That is what I'm saying Nstarz, I agree with you. A 3.0 but involved in numerous other extra curriculars (living life), should not automatically discounted or passed up, just because their "numbers" don't add up. CVM's need to be more qualitative, not quantitative.
 
cowdocsoon...you made me think of one other thing w/ your post...

I can see how someone's academic performance can be nailed down...but how do you do that for a social life?

I mean...what would the application committe and interviewers do? Ask how many friends you have? How often you go out?

All those can be lied about...

and plenty of introverts do "social" things like key club in high school or volunteer at the old folks home...that doesn't make them any more socially capable however...not in my opinion at least...

AND...on top of that we all know that people can fake being outgoing for at least brief periods of time, especially something as brief as the interview process and then let their true self show in school...

so i just cna't see a good way of figuring out who is right socially before amdittance...maybe you can narrow the odds a bit...but that's about it.
 
nelonvet said:
Ooooh! I think you nailed something here... with the kind of people they're admitting...not only do they seem to admit the "wrong" kind of people socially, but i also believe that those people, due to the strains of vet school...also further depress their social abilities, communication skills, and social maturity by not communicating enough with others while they study and try to do well...if you get my drift...they don't know how to deal with the "outside" world and people and the vet school curriculum/lifestyle doesn't help any...
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I agree! Nor do they want to socialize with their other classmates. They may talk to them in class, but don't go out with them and "blow off steam." Then they become the ones that become the important people on the admissions committee.
 
nelonvet said:
cowdocsoon...you made me think of one other thing w/ your post...

I can see how someone's academic performance can be nailed down...but how do you do that for a social life?

I mean...what would the application committe and interviewers do? Ask how many friends you have? How often you go out?

All those can be lied about...

and plenty of introverts do "social" things like key club in high school or volunteer at the old folks home...that doesn't make them any more socially capable however...not in my opinion at least...

AND...on top of that we all know that people can fake being outgoing for at least brief periods of time, especially something as brief as the interview process and then let their true self show in school...

so i just cna't see a good way of figuring out who is right socially before amdittance...maybe you can narrow the odds a bit...but that's about it.
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Nelon, you're right about that. I don't know the answer to that one. I do have a suggestion though, maybe it would work better. It is still sort of a numbers game, in a way. Look at the amount of activities the student has been involved with, and compare it to their GPA at that time. For example, being the president of an undergrad club, while also being involved in other clubs, and being a volunteer in youth clubs such as 4-H, then also helping with community service, while only achieving a 3.0 GPA, would be a great student.

Just a suggestion.

Some vet-schools say they do that, but they really don't.
 
nelonvet said:
cowdocsoon...you made me think of one other thing w/ your post...

I can see how someone's academic performance can be nailed down...but how do you do that for a social life?

I mean...what would the application committe and interviewers do? Ask how many friends you have? How often you go out?

All those can be lied about...

and plenty of introverts do "social" things like key club in high school or volunteer at the old folks home...that doesn't make them any more socially capable however...not in my opinion at least...

AND...on top of that we all know that people can fake being outgoing for at least brief periods of time, especially something as brief as the interview process and then let their true self show in school...

so i just cna't see a good way of figuring out who is right socially before amdittance...maybe you can narrow the odds a bit...but that's about it.
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I personally am, what people can consider "antisocial" to an extent. I'm not the kind of person who likes to get crazy drunk every weekend or whatnot, which is what most of my friends enjoy doing (I can't drink either because of my medications). I find that a lot of people my age are immature and make bad choices and I don't want to surround myself with people like that (don't want to generalize, but I've seen a lot of people in their late teens, early 20s going like 60 down a 25 mph road). I also don't think that all college students are like that, but there are certainly a lot of them that are :laugh: However, I do relate well to people that are older than me and are well established in their lives, and I do have a lot of mentors. Sooo I would be one to say that necessarily having a social life isn't the end-all be-all either. I think communication skills and "soft" skills are more important to the profession than seeing how many friends someone has, though that necessarily doesn't lend itself to fighting depression or anything like that (which is what the tread is actually addressing).
 
I'm kind of the same way. I go to a huge party school but haven't ever really been interested in many of the things my classmates are and I've never been one of those people who are involved in every club or group. My younger brother has special needs so I actually spend a lot of time at home with him and my parents. I'm very much an introvert. This probably would not look good if the admissions system was to look at GPA and how many activities I was involved in at the time. However, my interviewers were impressed that I have taken such an active role in raising my brother and caring for him in the same way my parents do. I guess the point is that I'm not the social butterfly student who juggles 8 clubs and has a million friends, but that doesn't mean I don't have good coping skills or people skills- in fact I'd say mine are as good as or better than most. There just needs to be a happy medium between decent grades and interpersonal skills in the admissions system. I'm just not sure how they'd do that effectively
 
Um, wow. Introvert != socially inept or lousy interpersonal skills.

I agree that too much emphasis is still placed on GPA and not enough on practical experience and the ability to get the job done in a real-world setting, but I don't think introverts are necessarily worse vets. I could just as easily say that extroverts who want to talk and joke all the time and aren't good at listening to people have no business being in the classroom or the exam room. It may be harder sometimes for introverts to reach out and connect with clients, but it is quite possible to learn/acquire these skills. Introversion/extraversion tells you whether you get energy from social interactions or whether you recharge from alone time; it does not dictate whether you will be good at listening to clients, obtaining their trust, getting consent for procedures, explaining treatment plans, etc. I think professionalism, honesty, work ethic, and compassion are more important qualities that can be found in both introverts and extroverts.

On the anecdote side, one of the most introverted people I know is a fabulous vet technically AND almost all of the clients LOVE him; he may be introverted, and he doesn't talk as much as other vets, but the fact that he is such a good listener and is very good at explaining things to clients without being impatient or condescending means that people ask for him more often than they ask for the other vets in the practice. OTOH, his business partner, while also a very good vet, is very extroverted, somewhat loud (he has hearing damage from his youth), and doesn't mince words if he thinks you're not doing right by your animals; some clients love him, and others prefer someone with a gentler manner of communication (he is gentle with the patients, just sometimes brusque with clients).

WRT coping skills in vet school and beyond, again, just because someone is introverted does NOT mean that they are lacking a support system and coping skills. I fall on the border between E and I, and I DO like to do activities with classmates, but I am frankly offended by the implication that you have to out with classmates in order to "blow off steam" and de-stress. For introverted people, going out to a noisy bar or partying with big groups of people often ADDS to stress. Further, when you are spending 8+ hours a day with the same people, you don't always want to spend even more time with them. For the people who are more retiring and don't go to the big class bar-hopping type activities, you don't necessarily know whether they are spending time with a small group of classmates or not. Finally, there are zillions of ways to "blow off steam" which are individual and don't concern your classmates, such as working out, watching silly TV shows, birdwatching, riding your horse, browsing SDN, etc.
 
I think it depends on what your definition of social is. I am not involved with a lot of undergrad clubs or go out partying a lot, but I am also someone who had to work 30 - 35 hours/wk through undergrad. After having to work to earn money, I am a lot more aware of how I spend it and don't want to waste money going out and partying. On the other hand, the majority of my close friends are 6 - 7 years older than me and I have much more fun just going and hanging out at their houses with them than going out and partying. When it comes down to it, I agree with the previous poster who said that having good communication skills is more important than a social life.
 
Crazy horse introvert chick (😉) said it well.

I'm an extrovert but I actually have to do a lot of my work/studying on my own. One reason is that I get totally charged up and really easily distracted in groups of people and probably end up being more of a distraction than an asset. When I'm by myself I tend to be so bored that studying actually seems like a good idea. :laugh:
 
The Veterinary Benevolent Fund in the UK has a website called Vetlife at www.vetlife.org.uk with sections for dealing with stress, burnout and depression. David Bartram, a former vet pursuing graduate training in psychology in the UK, is doing a lot of research in this area. Whatever any of you think, do not ever think that you are inadequate based over your veterinary grades. The curriculum is mainly directed at cramming more than learning, retaining and using knowledge successfully. Sadly, it is how they will test you but it will not accurately measure what strengths you will bring to practice after graduation.

Introverts can have advantages in practice because we do tend to be good listeners, observers and teachers. If you use explaining and showing findings as you perform exams with the client present, you can keep yourself on track and educate clients at the same time. I think it shows clients that you care and are knowledgeable and thorough too. Increases confidence on both sides of the exam table.🙂
 
and plenty of introverts do "social" things like key club in high school or volunteer at the old folks home...that doesn't make them any more socially capable however...not in my opinion at least...
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Uhm....introverted and antisocial are not the same thing, at all. You can be a social butterfly AND introverted. Introverted just means you don't feed off the energy of others and you need some down time by yourself to recuperate from all the wild partying you just did.
 
cowdocsoon said:
... but don't go out with them and "blow off steam."
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Wow! I didn't intend to offend anyone with this comment. I was simply using an example. Of course you don't have to be a party animal to be a good vet. Nor, do you have to go "bar hopping" with them to de-stress. There are obviously other ways to de-stress. It is still likely that you will want to hang out with a few close friends at times, just to de-stress. Socialization with others is often one of the best coping mechanisms there is. And again, there are others, but this is just an example.

I too alternate between E and I. I occasionally like to go bar hopping, but I prefer to hang out with a small group of people. I have also been told that I am very good with clients. I am able to develop a repore with clients immediately, which helps them to feel more comfortable with me handling their dog. Or so I've been told.

Others should not be automatically discounted, just because they don't have the numbers.

Maybe the blogger is correct, and those that stay in and study all the time to get a 4.0, don't have good coping mechanisms.
 
i think the issue is far more than grades or what the blogger says...based on what i read from studies here and mainly in the u.k. about 50% of vet students experience depression or symptoms of depression which they don't recognize as being depression in their veterinary school career...im not evne sure it has anything to do with anything related to evne extroverts or introverts...the toll of vet school can hit just about anyone really hard regardless of personality or personal achievement...

the whole point is...i don't think the issue is being adresses enough overall...although it sounds like some schools are trying to do a good job.

thanks for the link Dr. knecht.
 
cowdocsoon said:
Maybe the blogger is correct, and those that stay in and study all the time to get a 4.0, don't have good coping mechanisms.
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Originally Posted by cowdocsoon
It says misery loves company, introverts breed introverts, or something like that. It seems to me, that is exactly what they easily accept to vet-school; those that have no social life, nor do they have any clue how to treat people, or talk to people. When they finally graduate, they cannot socialize with clients to save their life.
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:wtf: I'm still getting a sense of sour grapes from you, and less so from nelonvet after her last post, saying that current vet students don't have coping skills/don't have interpersonal skills. It's true that sometimes you meet a vet or vet student who seems a little "off" in the social interaction department, but most of the vet students I've interacted with DO have a group of friends that they interact with regularly, be it large or small, and are active in one or multiple clubs and activities on top of regular classes. Just the fact that you are spending all day, every day, week in and week out with these people means that you get to know them better and lean on them more than in college. I honestly think I underestimated the bond of shared adversity before I started vet school. I didn't click with everyone in the class, of course, but it amazed me how quickly I went from not knowing anyone within hundreds of miles to having a small group of friends who studied together regularly, ate dinner together almost weekly, etc., in addition to sitting in class together.

Further, while I think schools need to do MORE to change the focus off of competing in undergrad for perfect grades/assuming that someone who got a 4.0 is more qualified than someone who got a 3.5, I think you are missing the fact that they DO already look at more than grades. Look at the admitted students threads on this board - plenty of people, including myself, got in with less-than-stellar GPA's because we had above-average experience/eLOR's/magic buttons/sacrifices to the gods.

NO ONE in here is saying that grades are the be-all, end-all for vet school admission, NO ONE is disparaging you for thinking that grades are overrated, we are offended by YOUR (you and nelonvet's) original implications that we vet students are maladjusted/antisocial/lacking coping skills because the adcoms are made up of and promote the perpetuation of the worst of the socially handicapped nerds. BTW, there are plenty of vet students who DO throw big parties and go bar-hopping.

It's also a big ASSumption that people who get very high GPA's are antisocial shut-ins. At least at my undergrad, (I was surrounded by premeds) it seemed that a lot of the people who were getting high grades in all their classes were also in multiple clubs, acting as undergrad TA's, working in research labs, etc., all at the same time, AND were really nice, friendly, outgoing people to boot. I don't know how they did it - I don't think they needed as much sleep as other people, and they were really smart so probably didn't have to study as much as other people. I guess I don't know whether they were experiencing depression or other personal problems underneath, but they certainly had friends and support systems.
 
Wow again! Some people are either into arguments just for the sake of it, or just wayyyyyy to easily offended! I have seen both on this forum.
 
Good lord...i think some of my comments have been misinterpreted.

Regardless...i don't care to discusss them as personal attacks using an inferior communication method and a depressing thread are unlikley to help anyone :laugh:.

i think we can all agree that it's an overlooked issue that needs to be adressed in students and in professionals alike and leave it at that...an if anyone has any other interesting links along the line of Dr. Knecth, they're alway welcome.
 
Cowdocsoon. I don't think people are trying to get personal but I do think that you have said some pretty strong inflammatory statements about, well all current vet students and how we are selected. No surprise then that you are getting some responses that don't agree with your overarching argument.

For those who aren't in vet school, please do be aware of the stresses that you are put under every day. Not only is there the volume of school work, there is the fact that you are around the same people day in day out which can wear on you no matter how much you like them, moreover, life goes on, relationships end, pets get sick and family is well, lol, family. That said, some people are bound to suffer from depression. Think about the practicing vet too- the compassion fatigue that can come with dealing with euthanasias alone is something that is going to weigh on you. Yes it is important to have balance in life and I think that is what needs to be emphasized.
 
I agree again nelon. I know that you and I never intended any personal attacks. This is just a conversation, not a personal attack on anyone. We are both entitled to our own opinions.
 
ekchad said:
Cowdocsoon. I don't think people are trying to get personal but I do think that you have said some pretty strong inflammatory statements about, well all current vet students and how we are selected. No surprise then that you are getting some responses that don't agree with your overarching argument.
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I only implicated some, not ALL vet-students.
 
I think it might just be hard to imagine the pressures that ALL current vet students are under until we actually live it. I, for one, swing between being extremely excited to utterly terrified of starting at Penn in the fall. 🙂
 
goldnretrivrgrl said:
I think it might just be hard to imagine the pressures that ALL current vet students are under until we actually live it. I, for one, swing between being extremely excited to utterly terrified of starting at Penn in the fall. 🙂
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I remmember being a serious undergrad student with lots of science classess... i was told by dfriend going to med school and vet school that it is much harder...i didn't believe them...thinking they are all slackers...and deserve to get a mental beat down in med school..
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

and then...first semester hit me like a freight train, and i realized how naive i was...it's literally twice as much work but half the time to complete it in classes twice as hard as my undergraduate science classess...

i don't mean to scare you...but it's reality in my vet school...anyway... one good side-note is you do eventually get used to the stresses of vet school (or I did) and the massvie burden that was a shock at first becomes the norm...🙂
 
You know what… instead of this craziness about depression, I'd like to offer advice if anyone cares…about what helped me get through the rigors of veterinary school. I strictly follow these things as they truly have helped me stay sane:

1.) Drink plenty of water (seriously)
2.) ALWAYS set a time to go to bed…even if I never finished studying fo ran exam…I didn't care, bed time was 10:30 p.m. and I got up at 6…never missed that rule except once or twice due to some emergency issues.
3.) Always eat breakfast, always eat every meal of the day…always…always…there's never an excuse of I had not time…you can always make time to eat during class.
4.) Hang out with friends
5.) Exercise****this one is key to feeling physically and mentally good…I used to take naps that helped me stay focused longer when I studied…I found out 30minutes of exercise is just as good at that and it gets me in good shape…double bonus!
6.) Don't forget your friends na dfmaily wherever your're from (if you came from far away)…always keep in touch once a week, it's usch a relief to hear from them and talk to them.
7.) Skip some classess…yep.. I said it…you should be able to tell after the first exam fro each class whether its even worth your time (especially the morning classes) of going to the class o rnot. Like, this semester, I'm skipping literally half my classes (4 day weekend!!!) because the teachers are either so bad at presenting the information I learn it better myelf…or they just test right from the slides…no point in waking up early or going to school..i'm having a grand ‘ol time!
8.) Get all your essential amino acids, fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals…you'll need ‘em all!
9.) Join some clubs, it'll help you connect
10.) Get a hobby totally unrelated to school…this one has really kept me going at tough time!

If I tink of anything else I'll let you know. Suggestions fomr others are always appreciated!!!
 
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blackangussteak said:
Finally, make goals. We all have big goals but the smaller goals can help you feel more accomplished and push you forward. Like nelonvet mentioned, set a bedtime and don't waver from it. Set days of the week to do chores like laundry. And don't set unrealistic goals, these small goals are set to make you feel like you are getting somewhere, not to stress you out further.

I hope this helps someone!
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Bingo! That's a huge one...along the same lines...you MUST have something to look forward to other than exams...:laugh:

That was something I didn't learn right away and wish i did...

If you find you're married to your textbooks and laptop...you know you've taken the wrong turn.
 
nelonvet said:
You know what… instead of this craziness about depression, I’d like to offer advice if anyone cares…about what helped me get through the rigors of veterinary school. I strictly follow these things as they truly have helped me stay sane:

1.) Drink plenty of water (seriously)
2.) ALWAYS set a time to go to bed…even if I never finished studying fo ran exam…I didn’t care, bed time was 10:30 p.m. and I got up at 6…never missed that rule except once or twice due to some emergency issues.
3.) Always eat breakfast, always eat every meal of the day…always…always…there’s never an excuse of I had not time…you can always make time to eat during class.
4.) Hang out with friends
5.) Exercise****this one is key to feeling physically and mentally good…I used to take naps that helped me stay focused longer when I studied…I found out 30minutes of exercise is just as good at that and it gets me in good shape…double bonus!
6.) Don’t forget your friends na dfmaily wherever your’re from (if you came from far away)…always keep in touch once a week, it’s usch a relief to hear from them and talk to them.
7.) Skip some classess…yep.. I said it…you should be able to tell after the first exam fro each class whether its even worth your time (especially the morning classes) of going to the class o rnot. Like, this semester, I’m skipping literally half my classes (4 day weekend!!!) because the teachers are either so bad at presenting the information I learn it better myelf…or they just test right from the slides…no point in waking up early or going to school..i’m having a grand ‘ol time!
8.) Get all your essential amino acids, fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals…you’ll need ‘em all!
9.) Join some clubs, it’ll help you connect
10.) Get a hobby totally unrelated to school…this one has really kept me going at tough time!

If I tink of anything else I’ll let you know. Suggestions fomr others are always appreciated!!!
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This list looks like it will be very helpful for me this fall. Thanks nelonvet!
 
This was a very interesting article for me, mainly because I feel very little of what the blogger is complaining about regarding vet school. I wonder if this is because I am (almost) 30 and was able to spend my 20s pretty liberally, being social and spending a lot of time with my horse.

Although I am not very social in my class it is mainly because I am not much of a drinker any more and I feel like I have already spent my time being the social butterfly and going out all the time.

I still feel dissatisfied with vet school a lot of the time but it mainly focuses on some testing anxiety/stress and also the debt load for being a vet (a huge concern and gripe of mine).

I can honestly say I never worry about wasting the best years of my life while in vet school, I suppose because they are already over :laugh: J/k Life does not end at 30 LOL

Also we do have an on campus counselor available to us and I know several students who use them and I think I may stop by to try to learn some additional stress-coping skills.

Anyway just an additional perspective from an older (but not wiser) classmate.

Any other older students have the same or different perspective on this?
 
HandD42 said:
Any other older students have the same or different perspective on this?
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HanD42, I completely empathize! As an old(er) student I was never really worried about grades (even though my career plans include hopeful specialization) or stressed about competition/achievement amongst my classmates. I think a lot of that has to do with the perspective gained from being away from school for a few years. 🙂 Looking around me, though, I see a lot of my classmates who really struggled with these things.

(My own issues weren't related to the academic side of vet school--lots of stuff happened in my personal life over the past four years and THAT is what made me feel alone/depressed.)
 
another tip to add to nelonvets great list! Try not to get hung up in negativity about school! People will complain about exams, classes etc. and to an extent everyone has to vent ... but when it gets to the point where the ONLY thing that they ever say, post on fb, etc. is how horrible vet school is, how much they hate their lives, hate their professors ... get out of that rutt and "club".

Find something good in everyday! It may be something small, but recognize it and build on it! The next round of exams will come whether you hate them and your lfie or not ... so you might as well try to find some good! 🙂
 
REally enjoyed the list - will be posting in a promiment place. Most of the stuff is stuff I've learned over the years - but until it is compiled in one place I tend to forget, and then have a mini freakout before I relearn it all again. LOL.

I've already been told that there's no way to study for everything - there's simply not enough time, thus go to bed on time. In my case getting an extra hour of sleep will probably be more beneficial than studying for an extra hour.

I'm not in vet school yet, but as part of my preperation I'm really spending sometime getting to "know thyself", and recognizign the triggers for teh start of a not-so-good mental state.

For me, if I'm under a LOT of stress, I have to get adequate sleep (even if something else is sacrificed), NOT skip meals, and get out of the house at least once for a walk or run. If I focus on those essentials, I'm usually OK. I've also learned to ask for help. That's probably the hardest thing for me, but something I am DETERMINED to do. I'm really excited to learn there is so much counseling support at UCD for the vet students!
 
nelonvet said:
6.) Don’t forget your friends na dfmaily wherever your’re from (if you came from far away)…always keep in touch once a week, it’s usch a relief to hear from them and talk to them.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna offer a different suggestion; filter, filter, filter. I love my friends, but helping someone through the night their wife left them, which also happened to be the night before a massive exam = bad grade (not mediocore but bad.) I've had to learn how to draw hard boundaries, and in some cases say 'I love you, I think alot of you, but you bring a lot of drama into my life, and right now, I can't cope with that.' I've also gotten a lot quicker to say 'have you thought about talking to a professional? I don't feel capable of helping you with this.'

nelonvet said:
7.) Skip some classess…yep.. I said it…you should be able to tell after the first exam fro each class whether its even worth your time
Click to expand...

ahh, to go to a school where classes aren't required and/or professors weren't vindictive of students skipping classes.

nelonvet said:
9.) Join some clubs, it’ll help you connect
10.) Get a hobby totally unrelated to school…this one has really kept me going at tough time!
Click to expand...

The first certainly helps me remember why I'm doing all this and sometimes put the pieces together (plus network) the latter keeps me from wanting to throttle folks when drama erupts.

For me, the hardest thing is that anything going wrong can quickly turn into an avalanch. Get a cold? if you can't take a few days off to recover, you can spiral into walking pneumonia. have a family emergency and have to delay a Friday exam to next week? that could mean a 3-4 exam week. And once the avalanch starts, it feels unrecoverable and like a constant series of failures. I get stuck in the feeling that I can't do anything well enough, and I am doing poorly in all my life roles (wife, daughter, student, business owner, etc.) My husband says he can tell when I am getting physically sick because my world view gets really bleak, but trying to take time to recover from illness.... nearly impossible.

I'm just now coming off 4 weeks of being very ill, which included a D on an exam, and delaying an exam. Some profs are very helpful, others seem to prove how tough vet school is.
 
alliecat44 said:
HanD42, I completely empathize! As an old(er) student I was never really worried about grades (even though my career plans include hopeful specialization) or stressed about competition/achievement amongst my classmates.
Click to expand...

This will be a big challenge for me, even though I'm in my early 40's. Having failed out of school early in life, I felt I had something to prove when I went back for my UG degree. To put it in perspective, it still makes me grate my teeth that I got one A-.

I don't care about competing with classmates - I am well-aware that many or most of my classmates will be smarter and quicker-thinking than I am - but with my background it's hard for me not to compete with myself.

I'm really hoping I can figure out how to accept "passing" and "ok grades" and keep life balanced while in vet school. Not that great grades wouldn't be nice, but ... unlike ACat I don't plan to specialize and, as far as I can tell, don't have much reason to worry about "great grades" versus "adequate grades".
 
HanD42 makes an interesting point in that age and having more experience with all of the other difficulties and disappointments with life may help you develop the perspective needed to deal with the stress and sometimes ludicrous things that go on in school. Having weathered failures and disappointments and learning from them does help to build mental resilience and perspective. Academics measure success though lectures, seminars, tests, publishing and tenure. That far away from you will be measured when you graduate and then begin seeing clients. The problem with admission to veterinary school admissions has always been that academics on admission committees have always tended to select students who will be most like themselves --academic researchers and clinicians. Admissions committees probably need to have more of the cream of the crop clinicians who can look beyond just GRE and gradepoint and have the background of being successful in the world outside the veterinary school.

Also note that the post has been removed from the DVM360 website. Our profession cannot continue to keep sweeping the problems under the couch anymore.

Joseph Knecht DVM
 
I am dissapointed that they removed the post - I had saved it for reading later, and now it's gone.

*If* I get in this year, I think I will be better equipped for the ups and downs having been out of school for 5 years and in the "real world". I definitely know myself better and have many more "tools in the toolbox" than I did as a recent grad.

When I graduated from high school I was not mature enough and ready for the UC system. Thank goodness I went to a CC for the first 2 years and didn't push hard to try and apply to an university (screwed up my SAT test timing and wasn't eligible). I think delaying my entrance into the UC system by 2 years was the reason I was successful at the UC system when I did transfer.

Similarly, thankgoodness I took 5 years after UG before applying to vet school.

I agree that sweeping problems underneath the rug will never result in a solution. I beong to several organizations and in each there are issues that are kept under wraps that I think are better shared and explored together for solutions, however that requires a degree of honesty that will probably be painful, however, there is no good way to solve the issue unless that process takes place. The way I look at it - it can be painful now, or you can wait and have it be agonizing later.

*shrug*
 
I have to agree with everyone above about perspective...and that those in my school (with a few exceptions) who are a bit older...and have had some time to work and get out in the real world...really seem to handle things much better in school...many are married or have very close relationships = support, and understand grades aren't everything in the REAL world.

Too bad...as so many of you have hinted...the academia doesn't know what the real world is a lot of times and does look at rank, gpa, etc...and it does matter to get residencies = academia again...

The problem is...most people (i guess somehting like 60%) of vet students either don't know what they're going to become later (and the need for a specialty or not) or change their mind later (or fear doing so)...I know I did...and hence that's maybe why so many stress out about grades...

My suggestion, to those that are 100% sure they can't stand or don't want another 5 years of internships/residencies after school is RELAX...a C grade and B's are GOOD ENOUGH!!! I mean it...it is!!! I cna't tell you how many really book smart and good test takers I've come across who are just a disaster clinically...and vice versa...if you don't care baout all A's...I suggest you use the extra time you would trying to get all A's shadowing a clinician at the school or reading up on practical, as opposed to theoretical stuff, as you go through vet school...once you get to clinics you'll be FAR ahead of the game (something the new curriculum in Illinois is trying to do).

And what's this crazy talk about pushing yourself to get A's just b/c you need to prove something? You are capable if you want to do it...be satisfied with that! Enjoy your four years, don't stress out and potentially get depressed and look back and regret the time you spent trying to get all A's...unless you want to be a specialist (in whcih case all the resident's I've met look depressed...🙂🙂🙂that's cause they never get no sleep...poor souls...).

Jumper has an awesome suggestion: STAY AWAY from engativity...not just negativity eminating from others...but also from within yourself..chastising yourself for getting an A- instead of an A = trouble eventually 🙁.

Ahorseoffcourse makes an excellent point: KNOW THYSELF!!! Know what triggers bad moods, stress, etc...and avoid it, or know the reversal agent. :laugh:
 
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