Vets and smoking

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TrocarKarin

TrocarKarin

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I just thought I'd bring up a conversation I had with my boss today, and see what everybody else thought of it.

Basically, I was talking to boss, and she told me that I should quit smoking before vet school because "nobody in vet school smokes" and "you'll be completely ostracized." Apparently, in her class at UC Davis in the 80's, she was one of two smokers, and felt that she had been picked on for it by the other students. Her other point was that if I ever went to any conferences, that you would find a large section of the techs outside smoking, but almost never the veterinarians.

Now, I'm not looking to start a debate about whether or not anybody should smoke. We all know the health effects. I'm just curious if there's as much as a stigma as she insists there is.
 
I've never really thought about it. But I've worked at several clinics. In every case all the techs smoked and the doctors never smoked. I'm the only tech that doesn't smoke.. and I'm on my way to vet school. I wouldn't judge someone else though if they smoked, its just not something I do.
 
I've worked with 10 vets and only one has smoked. In fact, she just started smoking again recently after quitting for a year. There are 2 techs that smoke of about 8 at my current place of employment. Even though I try not to judge people, it's difficult for me to hang out with those who smoke because of my asthma...I can't breathe.
 
It might not be an active exclusion, but if you end up being one of very few people who go outside between classes or at lunch to smoke, it might just seem like you arn't interested in stuff going on inside or maybe just miss out on some things that happen during that time. I can't see people being rude enough to shun you for it, I just don't think any non-smokers are likely to make that extra effort to seek you out when you are outside on a cigarette break.
I guess my opinion is if you want to quit, then quit, but if you do it for the wrong reasons (ie someone told you you should), it most likely won't be permanent especially with the stress of vet school

On the tech v. Dr smoking thing, remember there are WAY more techs than doctors, so the proportion of each who smoke are quite possibly equal and the numbers of techs are so much greater it makes the smoking dr. numbers seem less.
 
I'm pretty sure no one in my class smokes (that I've ever seen)...the only ones I've ever seen standing outside the teaching hospital smoking are some staff members from the reception desk, techs, etc.


I agree with badcats-its not something people would shun you for, but I could see you missing out on stuff if you always are outside for smoke breaks between classes, etc. Then again, if you don't smoke very often during the day, maybe thats not a huge issue. I'm not sure how you could manage it as a 4th year though, with being busy in the hospital 12 hours a day and less opportunities to step outside quickly.
 
Personally I think it lends an air of "unprofessionalism", because no one likes their vet to walk into the room followed by the disgusting smell of cigs. I would think it may cause people to exclude you a bit in vet school/when you're working, because if you're the only one who smokes then you're the only one out there and people generally don't want to stand around chatting with someone when they're shrouded in second-hand smoke.

I have asthma triggered by cigarette smoke, and one clinic I worked at a few of the techs smoked and I had to ask them to wear a jacket and baggy pants when they went out to smoke (and to remove them when they came back in), so their clothes didn't carry the smoke. Drastic? Yes. But I'm not about to let someone's dirty habit send me to the hospital with an asthma attack.
 
I don't smoke, and I would never judge someone based on something so arbitrary... and if I saw my classmates ostracizing a smoker, I would probably befriend the smoker to spite the bigots....
 
circusbear said:
I've never really thought about it. But I've worked at several clinics. In every case all the techs smoked and the doctors never smoked. I'm the only tech that doesn't smoke..
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Same here. Basically all the receptionists and techs smoke except me, but no doctors. If a doctor was out smoking and a client showed up it just wouldn't look very professional IMO. Plus I don't think clients want to be in a small enclosed room with someone who smells like smoke. It's really obvious when clients are heavy smokers because their animals reek of smoke and sometimes it's almost unbearable.
 
I only know one vet who smokes and she hides it from almost everyone. I only found out because I was riding along with her after a very stressful case and she couldn't fight the urge. She said she thought it was very unprofessional and she'd never want one of her clients to see her doing it.
 
One of the vets I worked for smoked. On several occasions he would actually walk through the back of the hospital (pharmacy, surgery, kennels...) with a lit cigarette in his hands. At the time I was a lowly volunteer in my teens, so I never said anything, but I always thought it was horrendous that he did that. No one ever said anything, as he was the owner.
 
I don't know any vets who smoke, but several of the male equine vets I've worked with use chewing tobacco. My theory is that it's a way to get their nicotine fix without the risk of burning down the barn. It's also pretty revolting, IMHO.
 
There are a bunch of people who smoke in our class and no one cares one way or another. I personally don't smoke, but I do think that if someone is small minded-enough to judge you for it than that is their problem. Wether or not a person smokes doesn't say one thing about how good of a vet they are. With all the stress that comes with being a vet student, I would never begrudge someone a cigarette (just like they should never begrudge me a jelly donut when Im stressed lol)
 
davidd said:
I don't smoke, and I would never judge someone based on something so arbitrary... and if I saw my classmates ostracizing a smoker, I would probably befriend the smoker to spite the bigots....
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Haha that's about how I feel about it. I'm older though and lived a while in France (where everyone smokes, including the vets), so my view doesn't always fall in line with Americans. It's really something I don't get worked up about as most smokers are usually very courteous here with their habit. It's a bit of a militant mindset in a lot of places, especially with the younger crowd.
 
I do my best not to judge smokers, I try to hate the practice itself and separate that from the person, but it's a choice that person makes that impacts everyone around them, and it baffles me as to why it's legal for many reasons. But since that is not the point of this thread I'll just say that my experiences with smokers have been all negative - I live in the Bay Area and there are a lot of smokers! They don't ever follow the signs "no smoking within 25 feet of doors", they blow it in your face, they throw their butts on the ground, etc, which is why smoking makes me so angry. I don't consider myself 'small minded' because I dislike smoking, in fact I'd say that I'm pretty damn tolerant by letting people pollute my air with toxins from their smoke. If someone thinks I'm small minded because I dislike smoking (not smokers, the practice itself), then I don't know what to say, really.

There are many other alternatives to relieve stress that don't negatively harm others and yourself and that don't carry such a negative connotation. People may not outwardly or intentionally try to pick on you or ostracize you for smoking, but it's sort of inherent since many people don't like being around smoke smell and you have to go outside to smoke, etc.
 
If we're gonna pick on smokers let's pick on all the others that have an impact on my second hand breathing. Those contributing to dangerous pollutants I breath in as a resident on Earth include such greats as Americans & the Chinese, heavy industry, truckers, coal burning etc. In order of magnitude, my exposure to second hand smoke is nothin
 
On a national average, as income level decreases incidence of smoking increases, for various reasons. Since the vets have a higher income then most others in the clinic (and often a fair bit more), it would seem to explain why they would have a lower incidence of smoking. I would agree that I know a number of vets that use smokeless. I personally think it is up to the individual weather they want to smoke or not, but admit to not particularly enjoying being around people that smell strongly of smoke. I dont like the smell of smokeless either, though.
 
I would think going to vet school would be a great reason to quit. If you're wondering if there's a stigma with it...yes for some people, no for others. For most it does seem unprofessional for people working in a health or professional setting. And if I had an appointment with any veterinarian/MD/dentist/chiropracter etc. and they smelled like smoke, I'd definitely never go back. JMO
 
I've only known a handful of vets and vet techs, but I do know 3 techs that smoke and no doctors.
I think part of why it's harder to find a vet who smokes is because of the stigma associated with being a health professional advising others on what to do and not do for their personal well being, or that of their pets.

Here's an interesting article from the Dolittler blog on the topic:
http://www.dolittler.com/2009/11/12/What.do.you.think.of.a.veterinarian.who.smokes..html
 
I can't imagine that you'd be ostracized, but one thing to think about is that some employers (a lot in the health care field) have actually stopped hiring smokers. They point blank won't give someone a job, regardless of skills or attributes - I just saw this on the news the other night. Considering vet medicine is still medicine, this might be the wave of the future and worth thinking about.
 
Interesting topic! I don't think I've ever met a vet that smoked, but I personally wouldn't judge my vet or doctor if (s)he smoked. I think it might be hard being a smoker in vet school though. From what I've heard, you're in school from 8am-5pm straight, except for an hour lunch break.
 
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At the clinic I work at, everyone (including the vet) smokes except me. I usually never have a problem with it. Days are long and stressful, so I understand. However, sometimes it can be an inconvenience. As a clinic with one veterinarian and only a handful of techs, if a problem arises or a client calls and has a question I can't answer, I have to put someone on hold or take a message or run out and get the vet. It makes me think about what I would do if I had my own practice. I don't mind people doing it, but constant breaks does take away from productivity sometimes.
 
I wonder if it is for the same reason that (it seems) not many physicians smoke, but a lot (it seems) of nurses do.
 
I've had the same experience as many of you. Only one doctor out of a large practice (about 13 vets) smoked... Almost all of the techs and kennel staff smoked though.
 
I know we have people who smoke in my class, but no one I could pick out as 'needing a smoke' meaning they tend to smoke in the same way they drink; after hours, at the bar, etc. I know there are some more dedicated smokers in some of the upper classes.

here is my take on it; if you have to take a break or suck a cig to cope with stress, it mightbe a problem. When one class lets out 10 minutes late, and the next class instructors makes important announcements at the very start of class or being late for a 10 minute quiz means not finishing half of it and upseting instructors for disrupting class, grabbing a smoke may be a problem.

I don't 'ostracize' smokers...however, cig smoke does cause my some breathing issues, includng sinus infections. So I don't hang out with people who smoke when they are smoking, and I am not likely to hang out with heavy smokers. I actually avoid one instructor because he is a very heavy smoker. If that makes me a bad person (looking after my own well being) then so be it. It has nothng to do with what they are doing..it has to do with my bodies limitations.

I give a lot of credit to those who smoke here; for the most part they are really super about not congregating around doors, even in the rain or winter weather. That means a lot to me. I also don' see a lot of cigarette butts, which is another thing tat I appreciate.

One thing to note; smoking around hospitals and barns may be prohibited for a variety of reasons, and on VIN at least a handful of vets noted they won't hire individuals that are known smokers because of increased breaks, image to clients, increased sick days, exposure of others, nicotine contamination, and withdrawl/stress issues. Please note, this isn't what I am saying, but the reasons given, and I have no idea about the legality of it.
 
Alright, so, from the vet school perspective...

I think in this instance, its important to remember that in Australia, smoking carries a pretty big stigma, especially among the higher educated. The attitude here is pretty much - its stupid to smoke.

We have a class of about 90, and one smoker. When we all went on our vet camp, a bunch of us were sitting in a circle drinking - and she started smoking. And yes, people started having a go at her about it - "how on earth can you smoke when you know the consequences, your doing a medicine degree... etc"

I honestly think most of it isnt trying to be mean, but concerned about her health. I think its important to remember that you'll be going from lectures about how the lungs function, how cancers form, and what happens to the lungs, to being outside smoking. Its going to be hard for it not to come up in conversation, and for people not to point out the obvious.

Of course, maybe Americans are more accepting of smoking?

P.S. I actually come from quite a poor part of town, so a lot of my highschool friends etc smoke, and I accept that (mainly because no matter what I say, its not going to change anything) and it doesnt affect my friendship with them.
 
sumstorm said:
One thing to note; smoking around hospitals and barns may be prohibited for a variety of reasons, and on VIN at least a handful of vets noted they won't hire individuals that are known smokers because of increased breaks, image to clients, increased sick days, exposure of others, nicotine contamination, and withdrawl/stress issues. Please note, this isn't what I am saying, but the reasons given, and I have no idea about the legality of it.
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From what I understand, its perfectly legal.
 
Maybe it comes from my history of working with rats and their delicate respiratory systems, but I would never return to a vet that smelled of smoke. To me it shows a lot of disregard for my animals health. But, if a vet takes precautions to not smell like smoke, or smoke anywhere near where it could affect my animals, then its not my business. I've never known any vets that smoke.
 
One thing to note; smoking around hospitals and barns may be prohibited for a variety of reasons, and on VIN at least a handful of vets noted they won't hire individuals that are known smokers because of increased breaks, image to clients, increased sick days, exposure of others, nicotine contamination, and withdrawl/stress issues. Please note, this isn't what I am saying, but the reasons given, and I have no idea about the legality of it.
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Well refusing to hire a smoker because they smoke is illegal, but perfectly understandable in my book for all the cited reasons and more.
 
i grew up with my mom smoking...and now i HATE it.

my advice....if you really want to keep smoking...make sure you don't have the smell all over your clothes and hair when you get back into class. there have been a few people that reek of it...and its just not good, you know?
 
If you want to smoke just smoke. I doubt many people will care about or have the time to think about if someone is lighting one up during vet school.
 
HopefulAg said:
Well refusing to hire a smoker because they smoke is illegal, but perfectly understandable in my book for all the cited reasons and more.
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Smokers aren't a protected class. I can refuse- pointedly- to hire a smoker if I don't believe that's the image I want to cultivate for my co. I can also refuse to hire people with visible piercings they won't/ can't cover or remove, or not hire people with purple hair (sorry nyan...).

Heck, in most states you can refuse to hire someone- or even fire them- because they like to kiss people with the same genitals.

Again- smokers not a protected class.
 
I will not hire anyone if I know they smoke. For one, i cannot stand the smell of it. I also think it is unprofessional as medical practitioner and frankly, smokers DO take more breaks. It is an annoying habit (to me) and I do not want to be around it. I would find a reason to fire an employee if they were a smoker. In vet school, i would not sit next to anyone in class who smelled of smoke. If we are all out at a pub at night and they smoke, then so be it. If it's legal, then i have the choice not to be there and would leave if it got too overwhelming.
 
Again- smokers not a protected class.
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Hrm....maybe you're right. I remember clearly talking about how not hiring a smoker based on them smoking was illegal in my business law class, but I think it might have been in the context of not wanting to pay for their health insurance (or maybe it was charging them more for health insurance).

Anyhow, if it is legal to discriminate against them, then one less thing to worry about.
 
Some states won't let you not hire people based on what they do outside the hours you pay them for- but very few smokers can go the full 8 hours without a cig, and you can mandate what they do on your time (and any carry over from their personal time- ex. showing up drunk, smelly, covered in mud or wearing political slogans). You can also sometimes get around it in those states for health insurance costs. And you can always not hire them because they simply stink. It can easily be written into the dress code, which helps get rid of super stinky types after the fact...

But yeah... about half the states will let you not hire- specifically- because of the smoking thing. And if they won't, I'm pretty sure you can make a very clear point during the interview that you do not allow smoking on the property, that you do not allow smoking in front of the building, that you don't allow smoking during the workday, and that you allow x breaks and or a lunch. during lunch you can't mandate what they do (unless you offer paid lunch time), but I'm pretty sure you can mandate what they smell like. But most breaks are paid, and you can disallow smoking then- it's your time, after all.

I'm sure with a clever enough HR-type lawyer you could add a clause in the employment un-contract to the effect that smoking during work hours is punishable by disciplinary action up to and including termination, and the same for smelling of smoke.

Sorry for the derail...

I wouldn't mind smokers so much if they didn't stink so much... or kick off nasty asthma attacks/ allergy problems. My mom, step dad, and sister all smoke, and I spend as little time as possible with them because of it. I also don't spend much time with cologne bathers, but that's an easier fix.

-j,
 
I'm surrounded by a world of smokers and dippers. In general, officers don't smoke - there is a definite stigma attached to the habit, but most make up for it by carrying around a bottle full of spit. One nice thing about my present position is that I can, and do, enforce non-smoking areas ruthlessly. Typically, there is no smoking within 50ft of any building. I can't stand people being discourteous with their tobacco products. I used to not mind dipping until early 2003 when I was in Kuwait waiting to cross the berm. I needed to wash my hands in the middle fo the night and grabbed what I thought was a water bottle. Turned out that someone had left their full dip bottle next to the water bottles. Really gross.
 
lazyjayn said:
I can also refuse to hire people with visible piercings they won't/ can't cover or remove, or not hire people with purple hair (sorry nyan...).
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I wouldn't want to work for you anyway! 😛

I agree with the crowd who really can't stand the smell of (cigarette) smoke, but also believe that what a person does in his or her free time is none of my business. There are plenty of people who come into the lab smelling like dog, or BO, or some other disgusting (to me) thing and if I got all up in arms about it all the time I'd come off as pretty sensitive and whiny IMO. I bike pretty strenuously to campus, and if it's rainy or too hot I probably don't always look or smell quite so good myself until I get a chance to cool down and wash up.
 
Sweat is easy to take care of, smoke, not so much.
 
lmscout said:
Sweat is easy to take care of, smoke, not so much.
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😛 Yeah. I don't have asthma, really, but my dad was a smoker, and since he left, whenever I smell cigarette smoke, it sets off panic attacks. I just really can't stand the smell - that, and other really strong smells just hurt me.

I agree with what you said, though - sweat can be changed with deodorant and cleaning up. Sometimes the smell of smoke on someone's clothes just won't go away, no matter how many times you wash them.
 
TrocarKarin said:
I just thought I'd bring up a conversation I had with my boss today, and see what everybody else thought of it.

Basically, I was talking to boss, and she told me that I should quit smoking before vet school because "nobody in vet school smokes" and "you'll be completely ostracized." Apparently, in her class at UC Davis in the 80's, she was one of two smokers, and felt that she had been picked on for it by the other students. Her other point was that if I ever went to any conferences, that you would find a large section of the techs outside smoking, but almost never the veterinarians.

Now, I'm not looking to start a debate about whether or not anybody should smoke. We all know the health effects. I'm just curious if there's as much as a stigma as she insists there is.
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I totally understand your dilemma. I smoked for 6-7 years and finally quit about a year and a half ago. I was a tech during undergrad and I was 1 of 2 who smoked but we never took smoke breaks unless absolutely necessary because we were afraid to be seen by clients and/or vets. I don't know any vets that smoke but I do know some vet students that smoke when they drink.

I'm glad that I quit - it was so expensive and I smell much better now 😀 haha plus I don't think that as a vet I would ever want a client to see me smoking or a peer, for that matter. So bottom line is, YES I think there is totally a negative stigma associated with smoking in the world of vet med, but I'd still be your friend if you do 😉
 
Back to the OP, there are two people that I know of in my class that smoke. One does it really discretely but I can occasionally smell it. The other does not really hide it, but got teased pretty mercilessly. I'd quit before vet school if you can. Just one more expense...

And for the record, if I knew someone smoked and could smell it on them at the job interview, there's no way I'm hiring them to work in the clinic.
 
Perfbird said:
I do my best not to judge smokers, I try to hate the practice itself and separate that from the person, but it's a choice that person makes that impacts everyone around them, and it baffles me as to why it's legal for many reasons. But since that is not the point of this thread I'll just say that my experiences with smokers have been all negative - I live in the Bay Area and there are a lot of smokers! They don't ever follow the signs "no smoking within 25 feet of doors", they blow it in your face, they throw their butts on the ground, etc, which is why smoking makes me so angry. I don't consider myself 'small minded' because I dislike smoking, in fact I'd say that I'm pretty damn tolerant by letting people pollute my air with toxins from their smoke. If someone thinks I'm small minded because I dislike smoking (not smokers, the practice itself), then I don't know what to say, really.

There are many other alternatives to relieve stress that don't negatively harm others and yourself and that don't carry such a negative connotation. People may not outwardly or intentionally try to pick on you or ostracize you for smoking, but it's sort of inherent since many people don't like being around smoke smell and you have to go outside to smoke, etc.
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👍
 
Out of 91 students in our class we have 5 or 6 who smoke. No one 'ostracizes' them (they are actually all really nice) but, man, I hate it. They regularly smell like smoke and we all sit in the same classroom all day everyday and when one of them just comes in from a break you can tell. We even had a prof tell them exactly how they would probably die (very explicit) from the effects of smoking during a lecture.
I don't know any vets who smoke, but I know plenty of techs, and I hated working with tech smokers! There is nothing like restraining a 100# lab with another tech and the stench of smoke 1 inch from your face and nothing you can do about it.
 
I smoked for 7 years, quit for 2, and started again after living with someone who also smokes. I smoke a lot less now than ever, but I still buy packs here and there- and clearly, that is beyond social smoking. I have every intention to quit before interviews, let alone vet school. So should you, for your health and sanity.

The sanity aspect: I cannot go to interviews/classes dying for a smoke- running off to discreet locations, zooming here and there, washing my face, washing my hands, spraying myself, and catching my breath to run to where I am supposed to be. People still smell it. People still hate it. I hate it. I know it is the worst possible habit to have, because unlike drinking (for most people), it almost always becomes more than social. The obvious health aspect: It is unprofessional, it does harm others around you, and it does diminish your quality of life and interaction with others. Let's quit together. My date is the day after my GRE. That's another thing. You really, truly have to figure out that you want to quit. Be around people who also want you to quit, have a partner who no longer smokes...all of these things have to be in order to be successful with it.
 
and it baffles me as to why it's legal for many reasons.
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$$$


Soon as the government finds out how much money they're missing out on with pot, and the social stigma starts to die away as those who've been indoctrinated against it start to die away themselves, that'll become legal as well.
 
We've got a couple smokers in my class...plus at least one guy that chews. Yuck!

The senior class has a few smokers as well.
 
I quit smoking five years ago, after smoking for 13 years. I read this book:

The Easy Way to Stop Smoking

It's not filled with scare tactics and junk, it just helps you reprogram your mind so that you don't need or want the smokes anymore. Ask me anything about quitting smoking, I'm totally open to answering your questions.

Quitting smoking now will not only look better, it'll actually reduce your stress level in vet school.
 
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