Vote for President

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Vote for President

  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 150 52.1%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 138 47.9%

  • Total voters
    288
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Trump is not a Nazi. He is an opportunist and typical liberal leaning Democrat posing as a Republican.

Hillary is despicable as well but in the usual corrupt politician like sort of way where we accept lies and greed as the norm.

There is no good choice here. In good conscience I can't vote for either of them.
My vote is going to Gary Johnson.


Gary "What is Allepo?" Johnson. Also the guy who literally couldn't name a foreign head of state. Super excited for him to be president. I'm sure he's got the issues down cold. Or possibly, there's Jill Stein, a medical doctor, who believes that vaccines cause autism. What a cluster. There is literally no one that wants the job right now who isn't going to be a total ****show. I think I'm just not voting.

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Gary "What is Allepo?" Johnson. Also the guy who literally couldn't name a foreign head of state. Super excited for him to be president. I'm sure he's got the issues down cold. Or possibly, there's Jill Stein, a medical doctor, who believes that vaccines cause autism. What a cluster. There is literally no one that wants the job right now who isn't going to be a total ****show. I think I'm just not voting.

Yes. That Gary Johnson. He is a decent human being which is something I can't say about Trump or Clinton. I watched most of the debate tonight. That alone convinced me to vote for Johnson. I've never seen two less qualified individuals (based on character and past history) for President of the United States. I suspect the next election will feature Clinton (she will win) vs another wacko from the GOP.

I've accepted the fact Clinton will win this election. But, I'm still not voting for her.
 
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Yes. That Gary Johnson. He is a decent human being which is something I can't say about Trump or Clinton. I watched most of the debate tonight. That alone convinced me to vote for Johnson. I've never seen two less qualified individuals (based on character and past history) for President of the United States. I suspect the next election will feature Clinton (she will win) vs another wacko from the GOP.

I've accepted the fact Clinton will win this election. But, I'm still not voting for her.
This is something I am still fighting with. In a European democracy, I would vote for Gary Johnson, for the same reasons. Worst case scenario, nobody would get 50% of the vote, and there would be a second round of national popular vote between the top two candidates.

With our unique system, where the second round would not be decided by popular vote, but by a vote in the House, my main concern is to not have Trump elected. So every vote for Clinton counts, and the country is more important than my ego, me making a symbolic statement etc., regardless whether the polls of my state show her winning big time or not. It ain't over till it's over (Yogi Berra).
 
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Trump is not a Nazi. He is an opportunist and typical liberal leaning Democrat posing as a Republican.
The man has the character and temperament of a dictator, and some of his followers are small brain authoritarian haters who are not far from the nazis in their white supremacist-like sympathies. That's why every time he reminds decent people of a third-world dictator he doesn't lose points with his own supporters. I am sorry, but trumpism is an extremist intolerant authoritarian political movement. For anybody who loves democracy, this man should not be a choice. It was already clear during the primaries, and now it's crystal.

I agree with him on a number of points, but he could be born again and I still wouldn't believe a word he says, except the part about making Donald Trump great again and destroying Donald Trump's adversaries. I used to have very little respect for Palin suporters, but these Zika people are leaving me speechless. Just another proof that nothing unites more than hate, especially for all kinds of invented pretexts.
 
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I'm still waiting for him to give me his plans. All he does is say how bad everything is and then claim how only he can fix all the problems in the world.

There is no substance to his banter. I honestly think the many years of substance abuse (I'm assuming) has left his brain fried.
 
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This is something I am still fighting with. In a European democracy, I would vote for Gary Johnson, for the same reasons. Worst case scenario, nobody would get 50% of the vote, and there would be a second round of national popular vote between the top two candidates.

With our unique system, where the second round would not be decided by popular vote, but by a vote in the House, my main concern is to not have Trump elected. So every vote for Clinton counts, and the country is more important than my ego, me making a symbolic statement etc., regardless whether the polls of my state show her winning big time or not. It ain't over till it's over (Yogi Berra).


What "unique system" do we have that would require a 2nd round a voting? There is no 2nd round. Many presidents never get 50% of the popular vote. Bill Clinton got elected twice without 50% of the popular vote.

The only way the House and Senate get involved is if there is a tie in the Electoral College which is nearly impossible to line up the math for at this point. If you live in a state that isn't a swing state, you vote for president doesn't matter one bit.
 
What "unique system" do we have that would require a 2nd round a voting? There is no 2nd round. Many presidents never get 50% of the popular vote. Bill Clinton got elected twice without 50% of the popular vote.

The only way the House and Senate get involved is if there is a tie in the Electoral College which is nearly impossible to line up the math for at this point. If you live in a state that isn't a swing state, you vote for president doesn't matter one bit.

He means that if no candidate gets 50% of the electoral votes, not popular vote, it gets decided by the Congress (POTUS by one chamber and VP by the other - wouldn't that be an interesting exercise, POTUS from one party and VP from a different), not a second popular vote to retry an electoral majority.

The electoral college is the unique system we have.
 
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What "unique system" do we have that would require a 2nd round a voting? There is no 2nd round. Many presidents never get 50% of the popular vote. Bill Clinton got elected twice without 50% of the popular vote.

The only way the House and Senate get involved is if there is a tie in the Electoral College which is nearly impossible to line up the math for at this point. If you live in a state that isn't a swing state, you vote for president doesn't matter one bit.
I am talking about 50% of the electoral vote. If there is a strong third candidate, and nobody reaches 270 electoral votes, the election goes to the House. There is no second round of popular vote.

And yes, the electoral college is a unique system. AFAIK, there is no other country with a similar one. That's why somebody can win the national popular vote and lose the election (e.g. Al Gore).

Wikipedia said:
If no candidate receives a majority of the electoral vote (currently at least 270), the President is determined by the rules outlined by the 12th Amendment. Specifically, the selection of President would then be decided by a ballot of the House of Representatives. For the purposes of electing the President, each state has only one vote. A ballot of the Senate is held to choose the Vice President. In this ballot, each senator has one vote. The House of Representatives has chosen the victor of the presidential race only twice, in 1800 and 1824; the Senate has chosen the victor of the vice-presidential race only once, in 1836.

If the President is not chosen by Inauguration Day, the Vice President-elect acts as President. If neither are chosen by then, Congress by law determines who shall act as President, pursuant to the 20th Amendment.
 
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I'm still waiting for him to give me his plans. All he does is say how bad everything is and then claim how only he can fix all the problems in the world.

There is no substance to his banter. I honestly think the many years of substance abuse (I'm assuming) has left his brain fried.

He is not very bright but has a huge ego. Trump isn't a Nazi but rather a Liberal Elitist. I can see how those who don't grasp the New York Liberal Elite Mentality could confuse it for a type of "Naziism" because Trump is of white German heritage.
 
He is not very bright but has a huge ego. Trump isn't a Nazi but rather a Liberal Elitist. I can see how those who don't grasp the New York Liberal Elite Mentality could confuse it for a type of "Naziism" because Trump is of white German heritage.

He's not a nazi (yet), but some of his followers are. There is a reason white supremacists love him, and it's not his blonde hair. He tends to speak the same language.

It's no accident that his sympathizers have persecuted Jewish journalists with not even a slap on the wrist from "the Donald". He had to point out his "Jewish son-in-law", or that he makes sure his accountant is Jewish, he posted the "most corrupt candidate ever" label in the shape of the Star of David, next to Hillary and money etc. The man clearly has a problem (when added to everything else about non-whites, non-Christians and women), and it's not just elitism.
 
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I am talking about 50% of the electoral vote. If there is a strong third candidate, and nobody reaches 270 electoral votes, the election goes to the House. There is no second round of popular vote.

And yes, the electoral college is a unique system. AFAIK, there is no other country with a similar one. That's why somebody can win the national popular vote and lose the election (e.g. Al Gore).

It isn't a "strong third candidate" that would cause that. It'd have to be a 3rd party candidate that was actually winning states. The 5-15% of the vote that Gary Johnson will get nationally will not cause him to win any states. If he was polling nationally at maybe 25-30% or if he was polling >40% in certain states you would have an argument.
 
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It isn't a "strong third candidate" that would cause that. It'd have to be a 3rd party candidate that was actually winning states. The 5-15% of the vote that Gary Johnson will get nationally will not cause him to win any states. If he was polling nationally at maybe 25-30% or if he was polling >40% in certain states you would have an argument.
A 3rd party candidate who's winning even a state = strong enough for me to be dangerous, in case the other two stop just shy of 270. Because that one state can be the difference between president Clinton and president Trump. But even if Gary Johnson didn't win any state, remember Ralph Nader? He didn't even win Florida, he just siphoned away enough votes from Gore, and Bush won. Johnson could do the same thing to Clinton. In any state that doesn't lean heavily Democrat, voting for Johnson is almost like voting for Trump.

Btw, since we all have been chatting here, there has been another person (no. 120) who voted Trump in the poll. Nice forum.
 
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He means that if no candidate gets 50% of the electoral votes, not popular vote, it gets decided by the Congress (POTUS by one chamber and VP by the other - wouldn't that be an interesting exercise, POTUS from one party and VP from a different), not a second popular vote to retry an electoral majority.

The electoral college is the unique system we have.

that's why I mentioned a tie in the electoral college, which isn't going to happen, nor is Gary Johnson going to actually win a bunch of states (let alone one).
 
A 3rd party candidate who's winning even a state = strong enough for me to be dangerous, in case the other two stop just shy of 270. Because that one state can be the difference between president Clinton and president Trump. But even if Gary Johnson didn't win any state, remember Ralph Nader? He didn't even win Florida, he just siphoned away enough votes from Gore, and Bush won. Johnson could do the same thing to Clinton. In any state that doesn't lean heavily Democrat, voting for Johnson is almost like voting for Trump.

Btw, since we all have been chatting here, there has been another genius who voted for Trump in the poll. Nice forum.

What makes you think Johnson is siphoning voters from Clinton? The overwhelming majority of his votes are likely coming from people who would otherwise vote Republican.
 
What makes you think Johnson is siphoning voters from Clinton? The overwhelming majority of his votes are likely coming from people who would otherwise vote Republican.
Only people who would never vote for either Clinton or Trump, even at the risk of Trump becoming president, should play that Russian roulette.

If one thinks that president Clinton would be the lesser evil than president Trump, one should hold one's nose and vote for Clinton, not for Johnson. And that's the kind of voter I am afraid Johnson might be siphoning away (e.g. Blade), and every vote matters especially in battleground states.
 
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Far more republicans in my area than democrats. About 1/3 of them are at least talking about Johnson as a way to help alter future landscape.
Favorite joke:
Why go for the left nut or the right nut, when you can have the Johnson.


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New York Liberal Elite Mentality

What is the New York Liberal Elite Mentality? New York is a guarantee for Hillary. Most Wall Street folks support Hillary.

Naziism was a kind of tribalism. That is what Donald Trump is promoting. Tribalism is one of the most basic human behaviors and it is responsible for some of the worst violence in human history. The biggest reason why the Middle East is such a disaster is because of tribalism.
 
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What is the New York Liberal Elite Mentality? New York is a guarantee for Hillary. Most Wall Street folks support Hillary.

Naziism was a kind of tribalism. That is what Donald Trump is promoting. Tribalism is one of the most basic human behaviors and it is responsible for some of the worst violence in human history. The biggest reason why the Middle East is such a disaster is because of tribalism.

If Trump wasn't running for office (any office) my hunch is that He and his entire family would be voting for Clinton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_elite

https://www.conservativereview.com/...-a-typical-new-york-city-liberal-then-and-now

Here’s the bottom line—there’s not a single issue on which Trump is a credible conservative.

Not. A. Single. One.
 
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By the way, the fact that Trump lashed out at republicans today strongly suggests that trumpism won't end with the elections, that he will try to establish it as a political movement. Once a (weak) person tastes power... Welcome to the American version of Jean-Marie Le Pen. Thanks so much, Republican Party!
 
Far more republicans in my area than democrats. About 1/3 of them are at least talking about Johnson as a way to help alter future landscape.
Favorite joke:
Why go for the left nut or the right nut, when you can have the Johnson.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

If republicans were smart, they would all go out and vote Stein. Get the Green Party enough votes this time to actually get them some funding and on the national stage for real in 2020. Then the liberal vote will be split and whatever dufus the GOP digs up next time will win easily.
 
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By the way, the fact that Trump lashed out at republicans today strongly suggests that trumpism won't end with the elections, that he will try to establish it as a political movement. Once a (weak) person tastes power... Welcome to the American version of Jean-Marie Le Pen. Thanks so much, Republican Party!

Once Trump loses the election at least 1/2 his supporters will recognize that kind of extremism and negativity can't win general elections. The other 1/2 (20% of the electorate) may indeed try to establish an ultra right wing party but I doubt they really get more than 5% of the electorate to really back it on election day.
 
By the way, the fact that Trump lashed out at republicans today strongly suggests that trumpism won't end with the elections, that he will try to establish it as a political movement. Once a (weak) person tastes power... Welcome to the American version of Jean-Marie Le Pen. Thanks so much, Republican Party!

The Trump movement is the political offspring of the Tea Party movement. If you really want to know what has destroyed the Republican party, you can probably trace it back to the Tea Party.

There was an interesting article about the disintegration of the party system in The Atlantic a couple of months ago:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/
 
That's just rhetoric for the news channels pundits and columnists. These things are just a lot more complicated than the media blowhards make them out to be. "Trumps" has nothing to do with some liberal agenda.

A man's character is determined by the actions and deeds of his life. Trump is not a conservative or a Republican but rather a populist who will say whatever it takes to get elected. This is the same as Hillary who is a moderate but giving speeches like a liberal.

Trump is Democrat. Hillary is a Democrat. Before this election cycle I would have said Hillary is more conservative than Trump on most of the issues.
 
Hillary has more than likely already won. Trump is what they throw in there to make hillary look worth voting for. Having a green party win the election wont happen ever. Too much money in oil.

Trump or hillary is a false dichotomy. And it is working. People are being frightened into voting hillary. Vote hillary or this and or that will happen.
 
The Trump movement is the political offspring of the Tea Party movement. If you really want to know what has destroyed the Republican party, you can probably trace it back to the Tea Party.

There was an interesting article about the disintegration of the party system in The Atlantic a couple of months ago:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/
While you might be right about that, it was the Republican Party who gave him a platform. They should have refused to accept him as candidate, especially after all the hate speech in the primaries, if those were not their values too. They were just afraid to lose votes to his movement, and they will pay dearly, for many years. Decent people won't forget easily. I am an independent who used to lean republican, thoroughly disgusted with them as a party right now.
 
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A man's character is determined by the actions and deeds of his life. Trump is not a conservative or a Republican but rather a populist who will say whatever it takes to get elected. This is the same as Hillary who is a moderate but giving speeches like a liberal.

Trump is Democrat. Hillary is a Democrat. Before this election cycle I would have said Hillary is more conservative than Trump on most of the issues.

If Trump is a populist who will say whatever he needs to get elected then he isn't doing a very good job of it. Trump is a populist, so was Bernie Sanders (as crazy as Bernie was, I believe he at least had integrity). Populist movements spring up every so often and spark ideas that get incorporated into the mainstream. Unfortunately, Trump exposed a lot of ugly ideas.

The difference is that Hillary is a career politician. Most successful politicians have to be somewhat moderate to appeal to a broad base of people. I bet Hillary Clinton knows "the art of the deal" way better than Trump ever would since she is a career politician. Politics is all about making deals.
 
Trump or hillary is a false dichotomy. And it is working. People are being frightened into voting hillary. Vote hillary or this and or that will happen.
You are probably right. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable finding out what would happen under President Trump. Just look at the security state (and circus) Bush created after 9/11, and he wasn't a Nixon-like intolerant person.
 
If Trump is a populist who will say whatever he needs to get elected then he isn't doing a very good job of it. Trump is a populist, so was Bernie Sanders (as crazy as Bernie was, I believe he at least had integrity). Populist movements spring up every so often and spark ideas that get incorporated into the mainstream. Unfortunately, Trump exposed a lot of ugly ideas.

The difference is that Hillary is a career politician. Most successful politicians have to be somewhat moderate to appeal to a broad base of people. I bet Hillary Clinton knows "the art of the deal" way better than Trump ever would since she is a career politician. Politics is all about making deals.

Trump is protecting his "brand" as much as he is running for President. He has enough followers to make Billions off his name and brand once he loses this election. If he was a boring politician like Mitt Romney then his Brand would suffer after the election.

In the end Trump is all about Trump and his Empire; this is very similar to Hillary Clinton and her "pay to play" mentality once she gets elected.
 
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It's all but over for Trump:




In fact, Ohio has now gone from "leans Republican" to "leans Democratic," and without Ohio, there is "absolutely zero" chance for Trump to get the electoral votes needed, Sabato noted.
 
A lot people on reddit who support donald trump say that the polls are not accurate.

Why? Because they go back to 2008 for turnout assumptions when both parties were electing new candidates (Obama, McCain). But - there is much less support for Clinton than there was for Obama, and there is much more support for Trump than there was for McCain.

This kinda makes sense because Clinton mostly has empty rallies (except 1 time in Ohio) while Trump has consistently drawn thousands of people to his rallies.

Ultimately the Trump people are thinking that this will be like the Brexit vote where the polls weren't accurate even the day before the election. No idea if this is true or not.
 
A lot people on reddit who support donald trump say that the polls are not accurate.

Why? Because they go back to 2008 for turnout assumptions when both parties were electing new candidates (Obama, McCain). But - there is much less support for Clinton than there was for Obama, and there is much more support for Trump than there was for McCain.

This kinda makes sense because Clinton mostly has empty rallies (except 1 time in Ohio) while Trump has consistently drawn thousands of people to his rallies.

Ultimately the Trump people are thinking that this will be like the Brexit vote where the polls weren't accurate even the day before the election. No idea if this is true or not.
75-80% of what Trump (and his people) have said have been proven to be lies, again and again and again. I stopped bothering to check.
 
A lot people on reddit who support donald trump say that the polls are not accurate.

Why? Because they go back to 2008 for turnout assumptions when both parties were electing new candidates (Obama, McCain). But - there is much less support for Clinton than there was for Obama, and there is much more support for Trump than there was for McCain.

This kinda makes sense because Clinton mostly has empty rallies (except 1 time in Ohio) while Trump has consistently drawn thousands of people to his rallies.

Ultimately the Trump people are thinking that this will be like the Brexit vote where the polls weren't accurate even the day before the election. No idea if this is true or not.

That is my final hope. At least he is winning the SDN Anesthesia forum poll. That should get a couple electoral votes, imo.
 
In the end Trump is all about Trump and his Empire; this is very similar to Hillary Clinton and her "pay to play" mentality once she gets elected.
HRC has actually done things for other people. In fact if you're referring to the Clinton foundation, if you believe the "pay to play" talking point/buzzwords, than you have to admit to yourself that it was actually "pay for AIDS drugs, hospitals, schools, etc... for play".
 
Does the president really matter? Apart from wining the Noble prize before being elected, what has Obama done? Would it have been so much different if a republican had been in the White house?
The president is just a puppet, i'd vote Trump at least i'd get a little entertainment.
 
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What's shocking is that, in most polls, after all we've heard from Donald Trump, men still vote slightly more for him than for others. How shameful (and I am not the PC type).

I don't know, maybe I am the one with the wrong idea. Maybe most Americans are not as tolerant as I think, but have completely different public and private personas, just like Clinton. Maybe they are just fake nice to immigrants like me, and other minorities, or women, while really hating their guts or despising them at the same time.
 
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What's shocking is that, in most polls, after all we've heard from Donald Trump, men still vote slightly more for him than for others. How shameful (and I am not the PC type).

I don't know, maybe I am the one with the wrong idea. Maybe most Americans are not as tolerant as I think, but have completely different public and private personas, just like Clinton. Maybe they are just fake nice to immigrants like me, and other minorities, or women, while really hating their guts or despising them at the same time.

I still hear nurses etc at work talk about Hillary being a murderer. The intense level of hatred for
The clintons is the only explanation I have for Trump still having support.
 
Then why wouldn't they answer Gary Johnson to the pollsters? He seems to be the only decent person in this race.

I have basic human decency problems with both mainstream candidates (and a lot of politicians), but Donald Trump is just at a different level (of low).
 
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Then why wouldn't they answer Gary Johnson to the pollsters? He seems to be the only decent person in this race.

I have basic human decency problems with both mainstream candidates (and a lot of politicians), but Donald Trump is just at a different level (of low).

Because he never had a chance to beat crooked Clinton
 
Because he never had a chance to beat crooked Clinton
He never had a chance mostly because people don't stand up for him. Saying Johnson to a pollster doesn't mean one has to vote for Johnson. But if enough people did so, he'd have a chance, at least he would make it into the debate. Anyway, it's probably too late.

One can't have a democracy if one always expects others to do the legwork. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
 
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Why can't Johnson win? Because his party isn't actually serious about influencing government, and each presidential campaign is really just a PR campaign.

Kind of like NFL players who wear pink shoes for a few games each year, Johnson and Stein are just "raising awareness" for their ideas

There are 0 Libertarian senators.
There are 0 Libertarian representatives in the House.
There are 4 (out of about 7500) Libertarians serving in state legislatures.
There are 0 Libertarian governors.

The Green Party is worse (0 and 0 and 0 and 0).

These parties ought to be supporting candidates at the state level, winning seats, doing good work that everyone can see, and developing people/talent for a presidential run.

The little credibility that Johnson has is because he was governor of New Mexico a while ago.


If Johnson and Stein and their parties were serious about changing the country they'd be running for the House or Senate, and helping like-minded people do the same through their party.

I think he'd be a good president but the only way he wins is if Clinton and Trump collide and destroy each other in some kind of matter-antimatter cataclysm.
 
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What's shocking is that, in most polls, after all we've heard from Donald Trump, men still vote slightly more for him than for others. How shameful (and I am not the PC type).

I don't know, maybe I am the one with the wrong idea. Maybe most Americans are not as tolerant as I think, but have completely different public and private personas, just like Clinton. Maybe they are just fake nice to immigrants like me, and other minorities, or women, while really hating their guts or despising them at the same time.

If the Democrats had nominated the current VP, Joe Biden, this presidential race wouldn't even be a close one. Hillary is a dirtbag while Trump is a egomaniac, self-centered Bigot. However, Trump isn't a racist in the sense he seeks to do harm to others. Because both candidates are so flawed as human beings (I do not like either of them) I am forced to vote for Gary Johnson.
Our republic will survive Clinton or Trump as neither candidate is liked by most Americans.

If more Americans stopped worrying about the "polls" and just voted their conscience then Gary Johnson would be the next President of the USA.
 
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