WAMC/ Ivy + URM/ 520 MCAT/ UPWARD TREND

[BRepublic]

Hi!

I'm creating this post to shed some light onto what schools/how many schools I should apply to? And if I should apply to DO as well:
I'm really nervous about this process and worried my GPA is holding me back as compared to my peers and their 4.0s.
Do i even have a shot at T20? T10?

Some info about me:
- Ivy League (Junior) (Non HYP)
- Applied Mathematics-Biology & Computer Science (In hindsight not the best major choice I know/ not trying to be crucified)
- URM in the medical space
- From the NY metro area

- 520 MCAT
- 3.6 sGPA (GPA pretty much the same as most of my courses are STEM focused)
-Really struggled freshmen year (didn't know how to study/ not used to rigor) got Cs but junior year a 4.0 (strong upward trend)

- ~250 clinical hours (corona virus really ate this up)
-ER work
-family medicine
- urban clinic

-NO tangible research publications/presentations (working on finding thesis project for senior year)
-with corona (not blaming corona but sure didn't help) and course load i have only done semester long projects (don't have the time)

- Volunteer at my religious organization
-Active role in student Government (elected by peers in campus wide election)
- Working this summer in finance in a Quant role (Former summers in consulting)
-Academic Frat work/volunteer

- Created a non for profit to help URM (working on deal to gain upwards of 1M views of content)
-Tri lingual (Does this even matter?)


Thank YOU!
BRepublic

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[Faha]

Where is your state of residence ? Which URM community are your from ? If Hispanic are you fluent in Spanish ?

 

[BRepublic]

Where is your state of residence ? Which URM community are your from ? If Hispanic are you fluent in Spanish ?

Im from New York (the boroughs) and of mixed Afro-Carribean and latino backgrounds, and yes fluent but not native in spanish.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
All 4 SUNYs
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
Dartmouth
Brown
Boston University
Tufts
Pittsburgh
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Duke
Miami
USF Morsani
Emory
Tulane
St. Louis
Washington University
Northwestern
U Michigan
Kaiser
Mayo (both schools)

 

[BRepublic]

Thank You! I will take a look into this!

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

You have a shot at top schools. Maybe consider a gap year to boost that GPA if you're really gunning high. As you are now...apply to 10 top 20s, 10 midtiers, and round out your list with state schools and HBCUs.

 

[efle]

You'll get into multiple t20s

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
All 4 SUNYs
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
Dartmouth
Brown
Boston University
Tufts
Pittsburgh
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Duke
Miami
USF Morsani
Emory
Tulane
St. Louis
Washington University
Northwestern
U Michigan
Kaiser
Mayo (both schools)

Does OPs lack of research affect the list of schools that you recommend?

 

[Faha]

Does OPs lack of research affect the list of schools that you recommend?

No.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

No.

So lack of research wouldn't necessarily affect one's chances at certain schools?

 

[efle]

So lack of research wouldn't necessarily affect one's chances at certain schools?

Is one an ivy league URM with a 520?

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

So lack of research wouldn't necessarily affect one's chances at certain schools?

IMO... I do think OPs chances will be affected at the t5/10 institutions due to the lack of research...which is why I think Faha might have excluded Harvard, Stanford, etc. still worth shooting the shot, though.
There are just too many strong URM applicants with as good stats with extensive research (policy, basic science, etc.)
For what it’s worth OP, I had very similar stats to you but a unique story, extensive research and multiple pubs , got into 6 “top 20s”
Best thing you can do is submit a quality application “early” and make sure all your materials are well-written and cohesive

 

[efle]

There are just too many strong URM applicants with as good stats with extensive research (policy, basic science, etc.)

There are ~20 black applicants per year with a 3.6+ and 36+

https://schools.studentdoctor.net/data/factstablea24-2.pdf

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Is one an ivy league URM with a 520?

No

 

[efle]

No

Then one probably should do research

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

There are ~20 black applicants per year with a 3.6+ and 36+

https://schools.studentdoctor.net/data/factstablea24-2.pdf

do you think it really matters when you get in that high mcat range, though? one is less likely to see someone with a 3.6 gpa who has a 40+ mcat compared to someone with a higher gpa and a 40+ mcat, which makes sense. according to the chart, there are 30 black applicants with 3.8-4 gpas, for example.

i just don't think OP can expect to get into harvard, stanford, hopkins, etc. with those stats and ECs alone. i say this as someone who is going to a t5 institution and who sees the caliber of black applicants accepted

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

do you think it really matters when you get in that high mcat range, though? one is less likely to see someone with a 3.6 gpa who has a 40+ mcat compared to someone with a higher gpa and a 40+ mcat, which makes sense. according to the chart, there are 30 black applicants with 3.8-4 gpas, for example.

i just don't think OP can expect to get into harvard, stanford, hopkins, etc. with those stats and ECs alone. i say this as someone who is going to a t5 institution and who sees the caliber of black applicants accepted

What caliber is that?

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

What caliber is that?

the ECs...

d1 or professional athletes, first-author basic science papers or multiple first-author clinical research/policy papers, rhodes/marshall/etc scholars, leaders in their communities who have established sustainable programs that have actually improved the lives of minority/underserved/vulnerable populations locally as well as global. they all have great stats too.
not everyone is like this, but every accepted student here has something that makes them "stick out" compared to other URM applicants. OP might also have something like this - just hard to tell based on the descriptions of his activities (which I'm sure he simplified for anonymity).

 

[Faha]

So lack of research wouldn't necessarily affect one's chances at certain schools?

Not if you are URM with a MCAT of 520. For OP there are only ~30 applicants in that URM community that apply ever year with those stats. That is one for every top 30 school. There is a lot of competition for those 30 applicants.

 

[efle]

do you think it really matters when you get in that high mcat range, though? one is less likely to see someone with a 3.6 gpa who has a 40+ mcat compared to someone with a higher gpa and a 40+ mcat, which makes sense. according to the chart, there are 30 black applicants with 3.8-4 gpas, for example.

i just don't think OP can expect to get into harvard, stanford, hopkins, etc. with those stats and ECs alone. i say this as someone who is going to a t5 institution and who sees the caliber of black applicants accepted

I also interviewed at t5s and am at one now, you dont need research to get the interviews. There is extremely high demand for these 20-30 people whether they have papers or not. If you're also a black Ivy grad with a 520+, I'd be very surprised if Harvard Stanford Hopkins Penn UCSF all declined to interview you.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

I also interviewed at t5s and am at one now, you dont need research to get the interviews. There is extremely high demand for these 20-30 people whether they have papers or not. If you're also a black Ivy grad with a 520+, I'd be very surprised if Harvard Stanford Hopkins Penn UCSF all declined to interview you.

Lol... well, don’t have any ivy as the alma mater, but didn’t get interviews at Hopkins or UCSF or Stanford with those stats (slightly worse gpa, better mcat) as well as four primary research articles in high impact journal (one first author ) . Sure, there is demand, but I think there is also demand for that group of 150 or so who have similar stats, and at that point, there is a lot of crossover between interview / accepted students.

of course the caveat is that Stanford and UCSF were mcat blind this year , I have no ties to cali, and I got my secondary applications in late October . Of course Hopkins being rolling, the latter didn’t help.

not trying to side track the thread - OP should feel free to apply where they want and aim high. Just saying we always hear about black applicants with great stats automatically being shoe-ins. I don’t think that’s the case, they can have ECs that are top 1% of the entire applicant pool as well at the “top”institutions

 

[efle]

Lol... well, don’t have any ivy as the alma mater, but didn’t get interviews at Hopkins or UCSF or Stanford with those stats (slightly worse gpa, better mcat) as well as four primary research articles in high impact journal (one first author ) . Sure, there is demand, but I think there is also demand for that group of 150 or so who have similar stats, and at that point, there is a lot of crossover between interview / accepted students.

Sounds like you got interest from Penn and Harvard with a 3.5, you can credit that to your papers if youd like. I think youd be pleasantly surprised about getting them anyways.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Sounds like you got interest from Penn and Harvard with a 3.5, you can credit that to your papers if youd like. I think youd be pleasantly surprised about getting them anyways.

edited the post with additional info you might have missed , sorry

 

[efle]

edited the post with additional info you might have missed , sorry

Dude you went 2/2 on the schools that saw your MCAT on time, and that's without the Ivy branding that affects how people read the GPA...

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Dude you went 2/2 on the schools that saw your MCAT on time, and that's without the Ivy branding that affects how people read the GPA...

if anything, don't many of the IVYs have grade inflation? lol it wasn't until I applied this cycle that I realized how many people actually have 4.0s. some schools don't even give plus/minus grades! sure OP was one of the select few URMs at his schools (if not the only) that has the GPA/MCAT combo, but competition must be fierce since these IVYs pump out pre-meds who are all likely strong applicants with similar stats. sometimes, it can be better to be a big fish coming out of a small pond like I did!

 

[BRepublic]

the ECs...

d1 or professional athletes, first-author basic science papers or multiple first-author clinical research/policy papers, rhodes/marshall/etc scholars, leaders in their communities who have established sustainable programs that have actually improved the lives of minority/underserved/vulnerable populations locally as well as global. they all have great stats too.
not everyone is like this, but every accepted student here has something that makes them "stick out" compared to other URM applicants. OP might also have something like this - just hard to tell based on the descriptions of his activities (which I'm sure he simplified for anonymity).

Bingo, does it give me brownie that my school wanted me to play Rugby for them LOL this is a great point! Sorry for lack of attention, I've been wrapping up a deal for my company. Yes, I've had to really scrub my ec's, but my non for profit is targeted towards URM youth in terms of a leadership forum, although it hasn't been nationally recognized to the extent of some of my peers and their work, its something I'm very passionate about. One sticking point that I would like to mention is that Im working a Quant internship at a Bulge Bracket Bank this summer so I'm forgoing research this summer, I was attempting to tarry research and work however its quiet a lot of work. At this point, as per my research on AMCAS, its a little rare for someone with a degree in mathematics to apply to a medical program, or someone with a double degree (at least noting my peers at school).

 

[BRepublic]

Not if you are URM with a MCAT of 520. For OP there are only ~30 applicants in that URM community that apply ever year with those stats. That is one for every top 30 school. There is a lot of competition for those 30 applicants.

Hi Faha, is there any site on the amcas where you can see this?

 

[BRepublic]

It should be noted that I'm not planning to take a gap year, just because I wouldn't be able to strengthen my application after graduation (I know I can work on gpa and senior research/thesis), but I would return to quant if I am lucky enough to receive a return offer or I would work elsewhere in the financial sector to which I'm sure it would raise questions to the ADCOM's as I already have enough work trying to explain what I did in UG (consulting, law, quant) as well as clinical experiences and that side of it.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Hi Faha, is there any site on the amcas where you can see this?

efle provided a link above

comparison is the thief of joy - just focus on how great you are. schools like the "rare collector item." all the better that you are different from your peers in many ways. rooting for you! you will get lots of love if you apply broadly (and early )

 

[BRepublic]

efle provided a link above

comparison is the thief of joy - just focus on how great you are. schools like the "rare collector item." all the better that you are different from your peers in many ways. rooting for you! you will get lots of love if you apply broadly (and early )

Thanks! Yes, my tired eyes glossed right past that haha.

Thank you! I'm sure crafting an app during the last cycle must have been unnerving! Part of me was worried for the fact that a lot of people who decided to take gap years are applying this year. So much so that my university dean highly advised me not to apply (theres a reason these medical school acceptance rates are so darn high! They cut you down before you even apply) as the university has the highest # of applicants ever this year.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

Thanks! Yes, my tired eyes glossed right past that haha.

Thank you! I'm sure crafting an app during the last cycle must have been unnerving! Part of me was worried for the fact that a lot of people who decided to take gap years are applying this year. So much so that my university dean highly advised me not to apply (theres a reason these medical school acceptance rates are so darn high! They cut you down before you even apply) as the university has the highest # of applicants ever this year.

lol, wouldn't listen to deans, advisors, etc. who often have no idea what they are talking about.

my advisors recommend I apply DO schools lol (nothing wrong with that, of course). boy were they wrong... got into the two most selective med schools in the country (Harvard, Mayo). better to trust people are actually in the know, some of whom have already posted on this thread (Faha) and have adcom experience

 

[Faha]

Hi Faha, is there any site on the amcas where you can see this?

Yes, but the data covers 3 years from 2013 to 2015. On the old MCAT 36 is the equivalent of 518. So there were only 85 Black applicants with a GPA of 3.4 or higher and a MCAT of 36 (518) and higher over a 3 year period. Less than 30 per year.

 

[deleted1065184]

You have a solid shot anywhere with your application, OP. Faha gave you a great school list, and you could totally add/substitute other "T5/T10" schools you're more interested in imo. I also agree that the best thing you can do at this point to increase your chances of success is apply as early as possible.

I also wanted to add that I think some people may be underestimating how much Ivies love Ivy applicants, lol. I got into 2 Ivies this past cycle and the interview day was just ridiculously packed with Ivy League students/grads. Other non-Ivy "T5/10" schools also had lots of Ivy League students/grads too.

I'd like to think school doesn't matter much, but I realize that humans have biases, whether we want to or not. I honestly think being an Ivy League grad with those stats will give you a boost at the most prestigious schools, even without the most robust research experience.