(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[asmallchild]

Hi all, new MS3 also curious about a research year. Attending a mid-tier state school in the midwest. I know it's a long shot to match outside of a particular region in derm, but was also curious on what my chances would be on the west coast/what I could do to improve those chances.

Step 1: 254
Clinical grades/Step 2 CK all TBD

Research: 1 derm poster, 3 derm pubs in submission, one more in the works that could yield multiple abstracts/posters etc. Have not personally attended any conferences yet.

Any advice on how to improve my application in general and what to focus on in the next ~1.5 years would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks!

Taking a research year at a program on the West Coast would certainly boost your chances

Doing away rotations at programs on the West Coast helps too

Unfortunately, the match process is too much of a crapshoot to dictate where you'll end up (unless you are one of those rare superstar applicants). For the most part, I recommend focusing more on matching rather than where you're matching. But if there is a location you really want to be, you'll want to be well connected there and that typically means doing a research year and doing a lot of away rotations in that location (obviously there is a lot of competition for programs along the West Coast)

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[doggimichelle]

Just started MS3, so no clinical year grades yet.
pre-clinical years grade: 4.0 @ mid tier state school
STEP 1: 246
2 abstracts, non- Derm related.
0 extracurriculars (no interest group, whatsoever. I am married and chose to spend time with my husband)
Haven't done anything in Derm yet, as I didn't expect to fall in love with Derm. I want to start now and do whatever it takes to be competitive. I am trying to match at a low tier state school that my husband goes to. What can I do? Is 246 too low for Derm?

 

[avidrapper]

246 is fine but your main obstacle is showing a genitive interest in derm. You don’t want to be the applicant who is perceived as someone who got a 240+ on step and then decided they wanted the derm lifestyle.

Get involved in research. Build out a niche (through research or volunteering) within a space in dermatology to create a convincing story of why dermatology. Research year would seal the deal but could be overkill. Your stats and grades are fine.

 

[asdfgissac]

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[asmallchild]

I sadly had a late M3 epiphany that I want to do dermatology after an amazing shadowing experience. Sadly, it is insanely competitive and my stats are borderline at best but I believe I would regret at the very least not trying. I was able to change my M4 schedule up a bit to get a dermatology rotation coming up. So come September 15th I'll have 1 Derm LOR and 1 IM LOR. I suppose my question is what should I do for my 3rd/4th letters? Should I try to get a shadowing LOR asap? Or could I possibly upload another rotation Derm LOR in November? I'm guessing that would be too late though. Any advice would be appreciated!!

I'm normally not one to push a research year but in this case, I think it would be worthwhile.

With borderline stats and without 3 solid LORs (all in derm, IM letters don't help that much), I think you would be fighting a losing battle. I'm not sure how easy it would be to sign up for away rotations at this time. In an ideal world, you would have an away rotation lined up for August and September so that when you apply, you'll have 3 solid derm LORs.

Do you have a home department? I think it would be worthwhile talking to someone in the department as to the best way to proceed.

 

[asdfgissac]

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[asmallchild]

Thanks for the quick reply! Owing to my current family and debt situation I would be hard pressed to take a year off and at this point my school wouldn't let me unless for a medical leave of absence. But I'll take your advice under serious consideration. Unfortunately my school does not have a home department.

I read that most Derm II's go out in November, to confirm an October 15th-November 15th rotation would be a waste of time, since by the time I'd upload that LOR it wouldn't be looked at?

Would 2 LORs with borderline stats at least give me a puncher's chance at some less prestigious programs?

I realize taking a year off can be difficult depending on your family/debt situation. I didn't realize some schools prohibit this practice as well.

I don't think an October/November rotation would be a waste of time, in your case, I think you need as many away electives as possible and as many derm letters as possible.

2 LORs with borderline stats and no home department is an uphill battle even with a less prestigious program. Your best chance at matching is your first shot. If taking a year off isn't an option and you are OK with matching into a backup specialty, it's worth a shot to apply this cycle (just make sure you have a backup plan that you can live with). If you really have your heart set on derm, I wouldn't chance it with what you have thus far.

Caveat: I am not in academic derm. I would check to see if you can get advice from someone closer to the application process than I am.

 

[asdfgissac]

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[asmallchild]

Thanks for all of your advice! Do you mind if I PM you?

Sure no problem

 

[premed9901]

Hello, thanks for taking your time to answer questions in this forum. This may be a bit premature, but I'm at a bit of a loss about what my next steps for matching derm are in light of step 1 possibly becoming pass/fail.

I am only an M1, but the path to derm is becoming a bit less clear, coming for a low to low-mid tier school (think USNews rank ~70).

Before, it was do well on step, honor rotations, have productive research and you could match without taking a year off (and this is really my biggest issue, seeing as I chose a lower ranked school to save 200k, and taking a year off to do research would more than obliterate that advantage). Now, with step 1 becoming pass/fail I do not know if there will be additional things I have to do, and maybe others will also feel that with step 1 not stratifying people, anyone can get a few derm projects and stand just as good of shot at matching.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[avidrapper]

Step 1 is not becoming pass fail.

Even if it does, class rank matters. Research matters. Away rotations matter.

Most importantly, actually rotating in derm and enjoying it matters.

Do your best to learn these first few years and get involved with your derm department. Things will fall into place but it’s impossible to say what your chances are when there’s no info on the rest of your application yet. Many people match into derm from us md schools from all ranks.

 

[lalapups]

What are my chances?
Mid tier MD school
Step 1: 250; step 2: 275
Top 20% of my class; nominated for AOA but waiting to hear back if selected.
Took a research year, have 8 publications + several posters/ abstracts.

 

[asmallchild]

What are my chances?
Mid tier MD school
Step 1: 250; step 2: 275
Top 20% of my class; nominated for AOA but waiting to hear back if selected.
Took a research year, have 8 publications + several posters/ abstracts.

You should be in good shape, I still recommend applying as broadly as possible and accepting all interview invites as nothing is guaranteed even with your solid foundation

Good luck!

 

[PhillyMed777]

What are my chances?
Mid tier MD school
Step 1: 250; step 2: 275
Top 20% of my class; nominated for AOA but waiting to hear back if selected.
Took a research year, have 8 publications + several posters/ abstracts.

your research year should help quite a bit/help the app stand out

 

[snapitstoby]

Current MS3 at a mid-tier school
Step 1: 247
Clinical grades so far: Surgery high pass, Obgyn honors
2 poster presentations, 3 non-derm middle author publications, handful of other research experiences
Two longitudinal extracurriculars, including leadership
Glanced over AOA requirements the other day and it's looking pretty unlikely for me
Wondering what my chances are (will most likely be taking a research year)

 

[asmallchild]

Current MS3 at a mid-tier school
Step 1: 247
Clinical grades so far: Surgery high pass, Obgyn honors
2 poster presentations, 3 non-derm middle author publications, handful of other research experiences
Two longitudinal extracurriculars, including leadership
Glanced over AOA requirements the other day and it's looking pretty unlikely for me
Wondering what my chances are (will most likely be taking a research year)

The research year is going to help

I always recommend taking the time to research your research year to make sure you are ideally at a place that has a linked derm department and a strong history of matching its research fellows into derm residency positions.

Otherwise the same advice applies: try to honor everything else, try to make connections during your research year, try to publish prolifically during your research year, a research year hopefully also allows you to structure your MS4 year very early in the process so you can fine tune your schedule the way you want it, apply broadly, and ace/enjoy the interview process!

 

[Residente]

A little bit of a strange story here, but here it goes...

PGY-1 in EM
Step 1: 262
Step 2: 248 (not on original derm application)
Clinical grades: 2 H, 2HP, 3P
Pubs: 6 pubs (all derm/mohs), 13 presentations (all derm/mohs)
Non-AOA
Good ECs

Failed to match to derm in M4 year, took a year off doing EM research and re-applied, now in EM PGY-1

Essentially, I look back at when I was applying for derm, doing the aways, and working towards that goal, and that was probably the last time I felt like I was doing what I loved. I don't mean that to sound dramatic, it really was an innate feeling of happiness and fulfillment that permeated my day to day life for those years. Now I just feel like I'm doing something else for the sake of paying off loans at some point, I don't even really enjoy the work I'm doing now.

My honest dream would be to be a dermatologist and possibly fellow in Mohs. I like the patients, I like the medicine, I like the procedures. I feel like I missed the boat and have permanently marred my application. Do you consider two year research fellowship at this time being a viable option with reasonable match rates. My primary reservation is that if I still fail to match again, I'll be left completely empty handed without either residency.

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[asmallchild]

A little bit of a strange story here, but here it goes...

PGY-1 in EM
Step 1: 262
Step 2: 248 (not on original derm application)
Clinical grades: 2 H, 2HP, 3P
Pubs: 6 pubs (all derm/mohs), 13 presentations (all derm/mohs)
Non-AOA
Good ECs

Failed to match to derm in M4 year, took a year off doing EM research and re-applied, now in EM PGY-1

Essentially, I look back at when I was applying for derm, doing the aways, and working towards that goal, and that was probably the last time I felt like I was doing what I loved. I don't mean that to sound dramatic, it really was an innate feeling of happiness and fulfillment that permeated my day to day life for those years. Now I just feel like I'm doing something else for the sake of paying off loans at some point, I don't even really enjoy the work I'm doing now.

My honest dream would be to be a dermatologist and possibly fellow in Mohs. I like the patients, I like the medicine, I like the procedures. I feel like I missed the boat and have permanently marred my application. Do you consider two year research fellowship at this time being a viable option with reasonable match rates. My primary reservation is that if I still fail to match again, I'll be left completely empty handed without either residency.

Any advice would be appreciated!

From a stats viewpoint, it's always an uphill climb as someone who has already graduated but your Step scores, publications, etc should have been good enough. Adding a research year in derm probably gives you a reasonable shot to match.

The tricky thing that I can't speak about is how being a current resident affects your funding and your ability to swap residencies. You would also need to do a PGY-1 year again as I don't think a PGY-1 year in EM would count. I think this is really a case where you will want to speak with your GME office to iron out those details to see if it is even logistically possible to switch / swap before you embark on looking up a research year.

If you are a PGY-1 in EM, I'm assuming you've only been in residency for 3 months? I think it's hard to appropriately gauge whether or not EM if the field for you in that short a time period. If you feel you are truly unhappy in EM, then I would say chase the dream for derm.

In your case, given that you've already matched to a competitive field, I think you do have to think very carefully about the consequences of applying for derm, not matching, and possibly not having a route to continue on in EM.

Wishing you the best of luck and hope you get some more satisfying answers from your GME office

 

[Residente]

I believe the PGY-1 in EM would count as the PGY-1 for dermatology after researching the acgme web sources (here), but regarding the funding, I'm unsure. I have seen previously that EM provides 4 years of funding, but I would have to make sure.

The possibility of losing both options is pretty rough, I will have to think more about it for sure. Maybe this is just a "grass is always greener" reaction given I'm 3 months in to intern year, but I'm not so sure.

 

[Chosey]

I know this is kinda hard for people to say for sure but I just wanted to get an idea of how many of you would keep going if you were in my shoes and how many of you would go for something more realistic.

I'm asking because I know my score is in danger of being filtered out by many schools and that to maximize my chance I would likely have to take a research year. But personally, thats a big decision for me and I d like to know that it's a realistic goal before I decide to postpone graduation and the rest of my life. (like if my maximized chance is 30%, I don't know if that's enough for me to give the extra year) I'm also feeling stuck in that I feel like because I have a bunch of derm specific research, even if I end up deciding to try applying to another specialty, they might think I'm applying to them as back up, and reject me for it. which wouldn't be a totally invalid conclusion since my 1st choice is in fact derm. I'm just also okay with doing something else if my chances are minimal.

So as you can see, I m feeling very stuck/ lost. Please give honest opinion if you can, I would really appreciate the input!!

About me: I am a MS3 who has wanted to do Derm since high school. I like it because theres both a clinical and procedural component. Primarily interested in doing cutaneous surgery because I like the special challenge to get to operate on such an aesthetically important organ.

Here goes my stats (sigh):
Step 1: 232 (I know! not even a surprise, scored around my practice. Was planning on postponing but wavered last min and now I'm regretting it big time).
Quartiles: 3rd (Im in a US MD school ranked around 50), No AOA
Derm specific Research: 11 total.
Started MS1. Currently have about 4 published papers/ presentation (2nd/3rd author, mid tier journals) + 2 published journal Quizzes + 5 book chapters.
Non-Derm research: 4 oncology publications (from before med school)
Extracurricular: I know this is less impactful so roughly about 5 leadership roles (president/ E-board) not Derm specific.
Other factors:
- Has a graduate degree in MPH.
- Not GREAT at making connections and charming people. Im confident in myself but naturally kinda shy.
- I would say I m pretty good at interviews though.
- Can potentially see myself in another procedural field (second choice is surgical oncology) but this is def my 1st choice by far due to previously stated reasons.

 

[asmallchild]

I know this is kinda hard for people to say for sure but I just wanted to get an idea of how many of you would keep going if you were in my shoes and how many of you would go for something more realistic.

I'm asking because I know my score is in danger of being filtered out by many schools and that to maximize my chance I would likely have to take a research year. But personally, thats a big decision for me and I d like to know that it's a realistic goal before I decide to postpone graduation and the rest of my life. (like if my maximized chance is 30%, I don't know if that's enough for me to give the extra year) I'm also feeling stuck in that I feel like because I have a bunch of derm specific research, even if I end up deciding to try applying to another specialty, they might think I'm applying to them as back up, and reject me for it. which wouldn't be a totally invalid conclusion since my 1st choice is in fact derm. I'm just also okay with doing something else if my chances are minimal.

So as you can see, I m feeling very stuck/ lost. Please give honest opinion if you can, I would really appreciate the input!!

About me: I am a MS3 who has wanted to do Derm since high school. I like it because theres both a clinical and procedural component. Primarily interested in doing cutaneous surgery because I like the special challenge to get to operate on such an aesthetically important organ.

Here goes my stats (sigh):
Step 1: 232 (I know! not even a surprise, scored around my practice. Was planning on postponing but wavered last min and now I'm regretting it big time).
Quartiles: 3rd (Im in a US MD school ranked around 50), No AOA
Derm specific Research: 11 total.
Started MS1. Currently have about 4 published papers/ presentation (2nd/3rd author, mid tier journals) + 2 published journal Quizzes + 5 book chapters.
Non-Derm research: 4 oncology publications (from before med school)
Extracurricular: I know this is less impactful so roughly about 5 leadership roles (president/ E-board) not Derm specific.
Other factors:
- Has a graduate degree in MPH.
- Not GREAT at making connections and charming people. Im confident in myself but naturally kinda shy.
- I would say I m pretty good at interviews though.
- Can potentially see myself in another procedural field (second choice is surgical oncology) but this is def my 1st choice by far due to previously stated reasons.

It's going to be an uphill climb with that Step 1 score even with a research year

If you can't see yourself doing anything else, take the leap of faith and do the research year. From your derm research, it seems like you really like the field.

On the other hand, if you can see yourself doing anything else, it's going to be an easier road that trying to apply for derm with a Step 1 score of 232

 

[Chosey]

It's going to be an uphill climb with that Step 1 score even with a research year

If you can't see yourself doing anything else, take the leap of faith and do the research year. From your derm research, it seems like you really like the field.

On the other hand, if you can see yourself doing anything else, it's going to be an easier road that trying to apply for derm with a Step 1 score of 232

Thank you so much for your advice! I do really really like the field! But I do feel kinda wary about my ability to make meaningful connections during the research year due to my personality being shy. Do you think my current derm research would be a negative factor to other specialties? Im worried that they might look down on it thinking I only applied cause i got too low a score for derm (which is kinda true) and hence not consider me. I m worried that i ruined my chances with both derm and non-derm residencies.

Also, would it be unwise to not do the extra year but apply for both derm and a back-up (maybe Gen surgery) and just see how many derm vs. non-derm interviews I get?

 

[asmallchild]

Thank you so much for your advice! I do really really like the field! But I do feel kinda wary about my ability to make meaningful connections during the research year due to my personality being shy. Do you think my current derm research would be a negative factor to other specialties? Im worried that they might look down on it thinking I only applied cause i got too low a score for derm (which is kinda true) and hence not consider me. I m worried that i ruined my chances with both derm and non-derm residencies.

Also, would it be unwise to not do the extra year but apply for both derm and a back-up (maybe Gen surgery) and just see how many derm vs. non-derm interviews I get?

I don't think derm research is going to be a negative factor as long as you can explain why you are shifting your pursuit to a different field (ex. "I didn't think I would be competitive for derm and so I'm now settling for your field instead" would be an example of a bad explanation)

With your stats, I think doing the research year is almost a given. I would not apply for derm without a research year in your shoes.

Many have dual applied, I don't think I would be capable of pulling that off as it would require too many compromises in my "back up" field. (e.g. you wouldn't apply to derm and gen surg at the same hospital so it will limit the types of programs you can apply for in gen surg). I would prefer to put all my energy and focus on applying to one field and positioning myself as best as I could within that field.

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

Thank you so much for your advice! I do really really like the field! But I do feel kinda wary about my ability to make meaningful connections during the research year due to my personality being shy. Do you think my current derm research would be a negative factor to other specialties? Im worried that they might look down on it thinking I only applied cause i got too low a score for derm (which is kinda true) and hence not consider me. I m worried that i ruined my chances with both derm and non-derm residencies.

Also, would it be unwise to not do the extra year but apply for both derm and a back-up (maybe Gen surgery) and just see how many derm vs. non-derm interviews I get?

FYI: you don't have to put your dermatology research on your application if you choose to apply to another specialty. You can just leave it off entirely, and no one will know or care. A 232 put's you at average for essentially all regular specialties and none require any research. You'd match decently well in any other field. While it's awesome that you have done dermatology research, it's not going to hurt your chances in any way if you apply to a different field.

But obviously don't put down 11 derm specific experiences if you are applying IM/FM/OBGYN/Surgery/Psych/Etc, because they will absolutely think you're dual applying even if you aren't. Maybe list all your oncology projects and 1-2 interesting dermatology ones.

Also if you like procedures and clinic, OBGYN is another great option. It's one of the only procedural/surgical fields in medicine that isn't impossible to match into, and has incredible fellowship options.

 

[insocrat]

Taking a research year at a program on the West Coast would certainly boost your chances

Doing away rotations at programs on the West Coast helps too

Unfortunately, the match process is too much of a crapshoot to dictate where you'll end up (unless you are one of those rare superstar applicants). For the most part, I recommend focusing more on matching rather than where you're matching. But if there is a location you really want to be, you'll want to be well connected there and that typically means doing a research year and doing a lot of away rotations in that location (obviously there is a lot of competition for programs along the West Coast)

Hi - just wanted to follow-up on this post:

In your opinion, do you think I would need a research year to match in general (anywhere)?

Step 1 254; Halfway through MS3 with 3/3 honors (FM, IM, Surgery); 2 posters, 4 papers (2 first author)

I have a good relationship with my home program, but obviously don't want to count on just one place where I have a shot at getting an interview before deciding to apply next fall. Thanks!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi - just wanted to follow-up on this post:

In your opinion, do you think I would need a research year to match in general (anywhere)?

Step 1 254; Halfway through MS3 with 3/3 honors (FM, IM, Surgery); 2 posters, 4 papers (2 first author)

I have a good relationship with my home program, but obviously don't want to count on just one place where I have a shot at getting an interview before deciding to apply next fall. Thanks!

I don't think you need a research year if you are just talking about matching in general, your stats are similar if not better than mine were across the board

 

[StephenCurry1]

Step 1: 250+
Step 2: not taken
AOA: likely, but not accepted yet
Grades: 2 honors and 1 pass so far.
Research: 1 derm case report, 2 posters, 2 presentations. Unrelated IM case report, unrelated urology case report, couple ortho abstracts, and two unrelated systematic reviews.
Extracuriculars: minimal volunteering, but looking to find some derm related opportunities. Don't really have leadership on my app either.
School: Average midwest school, no home program
Planning to do 4 aways

I should have one very strong derm LOR and then looking to get 2-3 more LORs during aways.

What are my chances? Will my commitment to derm be questioned because of my various research opportunities? I am not considering a research year. Thank you for your responses in advance.

 

[avidrapper]

Step 1: 250+
Step 2: not taken
AOA: likely, but not accepted yet
Grades: 2 honors and 1 pass so far.
Research: 1 derm case report, 2 posters, 2 presentations. Unrelated IM case report, unrelated urology case report, couple ortho abstracts, and two unrelated systematic reviews.
Extracuriculars: minimal volunteering, but looking to find some derm related opportunities. Don't really have leadership on my app either.
School: Average midwest school, no home program
Planning to do 4 aways

I should have one very strong derm LOR and then looking to get 2-3 more LORs during aways.

What are my chances? Will my commitment to derm be questioned because of my various research opportunities? I am not considering a research year. Thank you for your responses in advance.

Your stats are fine but you need a clear answer to “why derm.” Research years help people develop a clinical niche which they can use to frame an answer to that question on interviews and personal statements.

I don’t think you need a RY but you do need to be able to simply state “why derm” and have some research/projects to back that statement. Otherwise you could be lost in the midst of all the other high scoring candidates.

 

[ChesterHawk]

Hi, I'm new to the student doctor network, but this seems like the right place to ask this question. So, I am just over a year out of graduating an EM residency, and I'm thinking of switching to derm. Before I hear everyone asking why and telling me to give it more time and there are other options (I know all of this, but doing another residency is also an option, so I'm trying to get more information on that). The question is, could I even do it?

- I didn't do great on Step 1 (I can't even remember my score), I did solid on Step 2, Passed step 3 and am Board Certified in EM.
- I was Chief resident at an ER residency in Chicago.
- For the next year I plan on reaching out to a few dermatologist I know, shadowing, getting at least 2 papers, but probably not more than that.
Thoughts on this? I'm not sure if having completed ER looks good, as in I can be a successful choice or more appears that I lack dedication to a field, or would my application be interesting enough so that I could get interviews and then discuss this transition.

Thanks in advance.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, I'm new to the student doctor network, but this seems like the right place to ask this question. So, I am just over a year out of graduating an EM residency, and I'm thinking of switching to derm. Before I hear everyone asking why and telling me to give it more time and there are other options (I know all of this, but doing another residency is also an option, so I'm trying to get more information on that). The question is, could I even do it?

- I didn't do great on Step 1 (I can't even remember my score), I did solid on Step 2, Passed step 3 and am Board Certified in EM.
- I was Chief resident at an ER residency in Chicago.
- For the next year I plan on reaching out to a few dermatologist I know, shadowing, getting at least 2 papers, but probably not more than that.
Thoughts on this? I'm not sure if having completed ER looks good, as in I can be a successful choice or more appears that I lack dedication to a field, or would my application be interesting enough so that I could get interviews and then discuss this transition.

Thanks in advance.

I think you are going to run into 2 issues:
1) funding: having done a residency already, you may want to speak with your GME office to see how that may impact your ability to pursue a 2nd residency

2) competitiveness: if you didn't do great on Step 1, may or may not have funding issues, and are unwilling to take at least 1 year off to do a research fellowship, why would a dermatology program select you over the scores of very well qualified MS4s that wish to pursue derm every year?

As much as I like what I do, if I were board certified in EM, I would likely stick with it particularly if I was not willing to dedicate the time to apply correctly (I would surmise you would need at least one dedicated year for research and even then, that's no guarantee in being able to match)

 

[asmallchild]

Mid-tier MD school in the midwest
Step 1: 251
Clinical grades: 3 H’s, 4 HP’s, 1 P
AOA: highly doubt it
Research: 10 derm pubs (all first author), 2 non-derm pubs (one 2nd author, one 3rd author), 3 derm posters/abstracts at national and regional conferences, 2 non-derm posters/abstracts at regional conferences
Letters: 1 very strong derm LOR, 1 very strong non-derm LOR (from IM rotation), and will seek out 2 more derm LORs during aways

My biggest concern right now is that the majority of my clinical grades are high pass (with 1 grade even being only a pass), rather than honors. I’m definitely not a candidate for AOA because of this. Are my clinical grades and lack of AOA a red flag?

Fortunately, my clinical evals are all very positive and I’m very satisfied with the summative comments that will show up on my MSPE letter. I just couldn’t seem to get as many honors as I wanted. Am I overreacting at my lack of honors and passing grade, or is this a legitimate concern that should push me towards a research year?

Obviously, if I was applying to any other specialty I’d be feeling great right now. However, the feelings I’m having right now are that (1) my step 1 is average for derm, (2) my clinical grades are below average for derm, (3) I will not be AOA, and (4) my research is slightly above average for derm. So overall, I’m basically an average/below average derm candidate.

I’m willing to apply to as many programs as it takes and would honestly love to match anywhere. What do you think my chances are? I appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

I think you summed it up perfectly. FWIW, I had a similar application profile (with even less honors) and was able to match.

I would have also classified myself as a slightly below average derm candidate given my lack of honors and AOA. I also did not have as many publications as you.

I think you certainly have a chance to match. A research year would boost your chances if you can take that year

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the response! I just have some follow up questions.

1. How many derm programs did you apply to? How many do you recommend with my situation (i.e. 60, 70, 80+)? I know I should apply to as many as I can afford, but just curious what the average number of apps are for average applicants these days... what you would estimate?

2. What exactly would a research year accomplish in my case? After thinking about it some more, I realize that I already have strong research with 10 pubs in derm and more to come before I would submit my app this year. Therefore, would more pubs during a research year really benefit me that much? It seems like more pubs would be diminishing returns in my situation. What do you think? Or is taking a research year more than just getting pubs? In other words, is it basically an opportunity to get in with the program you’re doing the research year with?

1) I applied to all of them, I think it was 90+. I'm a little removed from the application process so I'm not sure how common that is anymore

2) It's more than just pubs. It's about making connections and ideally, getting in with the program you're doing research with (ideally a program that has a history of taking its research fellows as residents). Your best chance at matching is always your first chance. If you are dead set on derm, it may be worth it to do the research year so you can put your best foot forward. Conversely, if you have a plan B that you are very comfortable with, it may make more sense then to skip the research year and take your chances (my plan B was a program that had promised me an IM spot which is why I didn't pursue a research year)

 

[deleted941485]

What about someone who completed and is BC in another specialty. Has Derm research pubs and a number of poster presentations? Just needs some mentoring and rotations.

 

[asmallchild]

What about someone who completed and is BC in another specialty. Has Derm research pubs and a number of poster presentations? Just needs some mentoring and rotations.

I usually recommend starting with your GME office. Funding issues may arise for someone who has already completed residency.

 

[kegar99]

Upper-tier MD school in the midwest
Step 1: 258
Pre-clinical: pass/fail, all pass
Clinical: 3 HP so far, hoping to get some honors in remaining rotations but we'll see
Research: 1 first author derm pub, 1 middle author non-derm pub, 2 poster presentations, 3 manuscripts in the process of submitting so hopefully 2-3 more derm publications.

How do my chances look?

 

[asmallchild]

Upper-tier MD school in the midwest
Step 1: 258
Pre-clinical: pass/fail, all pass
Clinical: 3 HP so far, hoping to get some honors in remaining rotations but we'll see
Research: 1 first author derm pub, 1 middle author non-derm pub, 2 poster presentations, 3 manuscripts in the process of submitting so hopefully 2-3 more derm publications.

How do my chances look?

I think you'll be fine (good Step 1 score, good school pedigree, good research, I agree you will want to add some clinical honors). Same advice I would give to everyone else though: I would apply broadly and only rule out programs if you really cannot see yourself there.

 

[kegar99]

I think you'll be fine (good Step 1 score, good school pedigree, good research, I agree you will want to add some clinical honors). Same advice I would give to everyone else though: I would apply broadly and only rule out programs if you really cannot see yourself there.

Great, thank you for taking the time to respond!

 

[Notyouravgeragejoe]

So I’ve been lurking this thread for a while but have been too embarrassed to share my stats because of possible judgment. But here goes. I am a rising M4 with one major red flag that I am afraid will prevent me from matching successfully although I cannot see myself being happy in any other field. However, I would rather match than not match so I am going to be realistic about exploring other options. I have no desire to take a research year.
Failed some M1 classes, had to repeat, will go on MSPE. Very depressed during M1 year/ going through some things but do not feel comfortable divulging too much info about that on my app, as depression could be a red flag in and of itself.
Passed all second year courses
252 S1, haven’t taken S2 yet but plan on taking it before submitting apps
Honors in all rotations thus far
Class ranking at my school is solely based on S1 score and third year clerkship grades
Not eligible for AOA due to repeated coursework
Lots of research experience. Did research fellowship at top 10 derm program summer after 1st year, and continued throughout second and third year, 5 publications from that (1st/2nd author) strong letter from 2 faculty mentors there.
3 case reports
1 research paper in rheumatology
Several poster presentations at various conferences
Lots of unique leadership experiences
Come from very low tier med school, however I’m not too concerned about that because every year we have had 4-5 people match derm
I know I probably have a crap shot of getting in at this point but any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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[asmallchild]

So I’ve been lurking this thread for a while but have been too embarrassed to share my stats because of possible judgment. But here goes. I am a rising M4 with one major red flag that I am afraid will prevent me from matching successfully although I cannot see myself being happy in any other field. However, I would rather match than not match so I am going to be realistic about exploring other options. I have no desire to take a research year.
Failed some M1 classes, had to repeat, will go on MSPE. Very depressed during M1 year/ going through some things but do not feel comfortable divulging too much info about that on my app, as depression could be a red flag in and of itself.
Passed all second year courses
252 S1, haven’t taken S2 yet but plan on taking it before submitting apps
Honors in all rotations thus far
Class ranking at my school is solely based on S1 score and third year clerkship grades
Not eligible for AOA due to repeated coursework
Lots of research experience. Did research fellowship at top 10 derm program summer after 1st year, and continued throughout second and third year, 5 publications from that (1st/2nd author) strong letter from 2 faculty mentors there.
3 case reports
1 research paper in rheumatology
Several poster presentations at various conferences
Lots of unique leadership experiences
Come from very low tier med school, however I’m not too concerned about that because every year we have had 4-5 people match derm
I know I probably have a crap shot of getting in at this point but any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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I think you have a very strong application

Obviously the failure during M1 is going to be the red flag. I agree I would not divulge anything about that on your app. I wouldn't mention depression either.

But I would have a good concise, honest explanation if asked about it (the extrapolation that some PDs will make is if you struggle during derm residency, how is it going to affect your work? What did you learn from your prior experience that you can apply should you run into trouble as a resident?)

In terms of matching vs not matching, that's a personal decision. I think your application is strong enough where I don't think I could counsel you to walk away from derm, especially if you love it. On the other hand, for almost any other field, you would be in. I personally don't think failing a few classes as an M1 is a big deal especially in light of the strong application you've mounted since then, but then again, I'm not the PD of any program

Wishing you the best of luck!

 

[Notyouravgeragejoe]

I think you have a very strong application

Obviously the failure during M1 is going to be the red flag. I agree I would not divulge anything about that on your app. I wouldn't mention depression either.

But I would have a good concise, honest explanation if asked about it (the extrapolation that some PDs will make is if you struggle during derm residency, how is it going to affect your work? What did you learn from your prior experience that you can apply should you run into trouble as a resident?)

In terms of matching vs not matching, that's a personal decision. I think your application is strong enough where I don't think I could counsel you to walk away from derm, especially if you love it. On the other hand, for almost any other field, you would be in. I personally don't think failing a few classes as an M1 is a big deal especially in light of the strong application you've mounted since then, but then again, I'm not the PD of any program

Wishing you the best of luck!

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me! Truly appreciate it!

I also fear with the whole COVID pandemic and away rotations being cancelled, I won’t be able to even build connections as much as I need to before applying in September.


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[StephenCurry1]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if any of you had advice for someone with no home program trying to match into dermatology this year. I have been withdrawn from the three away rotations I had due to COVID19. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if any of you had advice for someone with no home program trying to match into dermatology this year. I have been withdrawn from the three away rotations I had due to COVID19. Any advice would be appreciated!

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone is going to have any solid advice as we are all in unchartered waters here.

I would see if you could contact the away rotation programs directly to see if they are offering or if they know of any programs that are offering away rotations.

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear but you may want to consider taking a research year. Applying into dermatology without a home program and without away rotations is probably a setup for failure unfortunately.

 

[yellowbluegreen]

Hi guys,

4th year DO student here. I was hoping if anyone could provide some advice in regards to my chances for a Derm residency. Given that audition rotations are not possible due to COVID, one of my obstacles is getting LORs. This is my current stat.
Step 1: 244
Step 2: 256
Research: Ton of publications (over 10) and poster presentations but not necessarily in the field of Derm.

Any advice or suggestion would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

 

[kfcman289]

State University in the Midwest. Took a year off for an MPH.
Step 1-- 253
16 publications, 5 of them derm related
Honored half of rotations. Most likely will not make AOA.

Don't have super close connections with the derm faculty, hoping to have more exposure over the next few months as I do home rotations.

General thoughts on where I stand? Middle of the back/ anywhere else? Obviously, nothing is guaranteed when applying to derm.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi guys,

4th year DO student here. I was hoping if anyone could provide some advice in regards to my chances for a Derm residency. Given that audition rotations are not possible due to COVID, one of my obstacles is getting LORs. This is my current stat.
Step 1: 244
Step 2: 256
Research: Ton of publications (over 10) and poster presentations but not necessarily in the field of Derm.

Any advice or suggestion would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Hopefully someone with more recent experience can chime in.

Back when I applied, there was certainly an uphill climb for DOs. I am not sure if that bias exists any longer (isn't everything under the umbrella of the ACGME now for both MDs and DOs?)

 

[asmallchild]

State University in the Midwest. Took a year off for an MPH.
Step 1-- 253
16 publications, 5 of them derm related
Honored half of rotations. Most likely will not make AOA.

Don't have super close connections with the derm faculty, hoping to have more exposure over the next few months as I do home rotations.

General thoughts on where I stand? Middle of the back/ anywhere else? Obviously, nothing is guaranteed when applying to derm.

I think you should be in good shape

I think taking a year off for an MPH is something interesting that you could bring up at your interviews. Your Step 1 score is excellent. You have an impressive number of publications. Just have to finish strong with a home rotation (if available), at least 1 away, get good letters, and interview well.

Advice I give to all applicants: I would make sure you apply broadly and accept the interview for any place you could see yourself at for 3 years of residency.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Hopefully someone with more recent experience can chime in.

Back when I applied, there was certainly an uphill climb for DOs. I am not sure if that bias exists any longer (isn't everything under the umbrella of the ACGME now for both MDs and DOs?)

Bias still exists today. It even exists in places that they have taken DOs previously.
I think it is an uphill battle for this applicant with an otherwise so so application

 

[asmallchild]

Bias still exists today. It even exists in places that they have taken DOs previously.
I think it is an uphill battle for this applicant with an otherwise so so application

Our program took 1 DO and it did not work out. They have not taken a DO since. Fair or not, I agree bias certainly still exists particularly when there is no shortage of qualified applicants in dermatology.

 

[dermapp2023]

MD/PhD wrapping up PhD at Top 20 school
- Step 1: 248
- Honors in all rotations so far. (Haven't done my other half yet)
- 10 pubs including 3 first-author pubs (2 non-derm basic, 1 derm translational)

Mostly wondering whether Step 1 score will close doors at top programs (I know I'm pretty much at the median score) and wondering what I should do about Step 2? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

MD/PhD wrapping up PhD at Top 20 school
- Step 1: 248
- Honors in all rotations so far. (Haven't done my other half yet)
- 10 pubs including 3 first-author pubs (2 non-derm basic, 1 derm translational)

Mostly wondering whether Step 1 score will close doors at top programs (I know I'm pretty much at the median score) and wondering what I should do about Step 2? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

You'll be competitive for any dermatology program in the country. Top 20 med school, MD/PhD, All Honors, and 10 publications, all make you a very enticing applicant. Yes, dermatology cares immensely about Step 1, but at top programs I feel that it is more of a threshold, rather than a deciding factor. Your score is essentially dead average for dermatology which will not get you screened out at any of the programs, likely not even the top ones. It will be the rest of your application that makes/or breaks you for the top programs, and as of now, your CV appears to be rather impressive. I would expect you to certainly match, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was at a very prestigious or top program.