(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[Dermap2018]

You are in good shape. Do you have a home program? Why so many aways? Seems like you are an excellent student clinically but beware of rotator fatigue.

I hated doing derm rotations myself as a student because it's an observational experience. One is OK. Two might be considered the norm now. Three if you lack a home program. It would be a very impressive student who could remain motivated and enthusiastic throughout 5 away rotations so you'll want to make sure you are on top of your game for all of them. If there's any hesitation, I'd scale back as the rest of your application seems strong enough.

One of my aways is home program another is where I’ve done significant publishing. Also couples matching. Concerned about not making AOA.

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[username456789]

One of my aways is home program another is where I’ve done significant publishing. Also couples matching. Concerned about not making AOA.

How is one of your aways your home program?

 

[Dermap2018]

How is one of your aways your home program?

I’m doing 5 derm rotations this fall

 

[username456789]

I’m doing 5 derm rotations this fall

......that doesn’t answer my question.

 

[skinlessderm]

Currently an MS3 wanting some feedback. My main concern is my research.

School: mid-rank US MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: N/a
Pre-clinical: Top quartile
Clinical grades: 2 H so far
Research: 1 published case report in unrelated field (first author), 1 published case report in derm (first author), 1 submitted research letter (first author), working on another case report now, No presentations yet, but hoping to present at AAD next year

 

[asmallchild]

Currently an MS3 wanting some feedback. My main concern is my research.

School: mid-rank US MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: N/a
Pre-clinical: Top quartile
Clinical grades: 2 H so far
Research: 1 published case report in unrelated field (first author), 1 published case report in derm (first author), 1 submitted research letter (first author), working on another case report now, No presentations yet, but hoping to present at AAD next year

You should be in good shape. Do you have a home department? It's early enough in 3rd year where hopefully you can latch onto a more substantial project during a lighter clinical rotation.

I haven't found presentations to be as helpful as publications but they certainly don't hurt. Networking at the AAD is probably going to matter more in the long run than your actual presentation.

 

[skinlessderm]

You should be in good shape. Do you have a home department? It's early enough in 3rd year where hopefully you can latch onto a more substantial project during a lighter clinical rotation.

I haven't found presentations to be as helpful as publications but they certainly don't hurt. Networking at the AAD is probably going to matter more in the long run than your actual presentation.

Thanks for the reply! I do have a home department. I'm hoping to find something more substantial this year, but it seems like all of the projects that are available require a huge time commitment. Will it look pretty bad if most of my research is case reports?

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the reply! I do have a home department. I'm hoping to find something more substantial this year, but it seems like all of the projects that are available require a huge time commitment. Will it look pretty bad if most of my research is case reports?

But that's why they're worth it. PDs know how much effort a case report takes. They're typically more impressed if you have a more substantial research project because it means you've taken the time to dedicate yourself towards a more meaningful project. Bad is relative. Just case reports is better than no research at all. But even 1 substantial research project is going to be worth more than 5 case reports (especially if published to throwaway journals)

 

[skinlessderm]

But that's why they're worth it. PDs know how much effort a case report takes. They're typically more impressed if you have a more substantial research project because it means you've taken the time to dedicate yourself towards a more meaningful project. Bad is relative. Just case reports is better than no research at all. But even 1 substantial research project is going to be worth more than 5 case reports (especially if published to throwaway journals)

Thanks asmallchild. I appreciate the feedback. I'm gonna go ahead and talk to my mentor about finding a more substantial project.

 

[asmallchild]

Would a 1st author research letter in JAAD look like a substantial research project? Or are they typically viewed similarly to a case report?

I think it depends on who is making that judgment call. Your co-authors on the paper would probably call it substantial

But yes, in general, it's a quicker type project and I would view it in the same vein as a case report or a case series.

 

[blackblue]

MS3 very interested in derm. Trying to understand if I have a shot.

Step 1: 260
School: Top 3
Grades: Neuro HP, Psych H, OBGYN (remediated) P --- there are details on this in my post history.
Research: 3-4 middle author pubs in a surgical subspecialty, one first author abstract presented, one podium presentation at a national conference (none of these in derm)
Some volunteer work and student leadership

I am not interested in the top academic centers. I have no plans to practice academic medicine. I want to train somewhere reasonable, but I don't care otherwise.
Still think I have a good chance with that ugly "Pass" on my transcript?
Should I do a research year to make sure I match or could I match without one?

Thank you!

I'm not able to see what happened with your OB/Gyn clerkship, but the remediation is more of concern than the "pass". Your Step 1 helps, but depending on what happened for the remediation, it may be an uphill battle to get interviews and matching even if you aren't interested in "top" academic centers. You definitely still have a shot at derm--focus on honoring your clerkships and getting more involved with your derm department to get research projects under your belt will help.

 

[asmallchild]

Here is the context: Got a pass in OBGYN, what now? please let me know what you think if it ends up as remediation in this setting. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I don't think anybody will have a certain answer for you here.

The rest of your stats certainly look good enough that you can match without a research year. A research year never hurts and would increase your chances obviously. You'll need a good explanation either way in case you get asked why you have a pass or a remediation on your transcript.

But the counterpoint is that you are competing with lots of students who have no blemishes or very small blemishes. Some PDs will look at your transcript and decide they don't want to take a risk on a student with a pass or a remediation. Others will see all the other positives (your Step 1, your school pedigree, etc) and ignore that tiny spot.

I don't think it sinks your chances and at this point, nothing you can do but move on and try to honor everything else to prove it was just a one time hiccup. Whether or not you want to risk applying for derm and going unmatched or choose another specialty over this is up to you.

Sorry you are going through this, wishing you the best of luck moving forward

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the response, and for being so active and helpful on this forum in general. I heard today that it won't be a remediation, just a pass. So I still have some hope. I can understand "top" programs not wanting to take a risk on someone with a pass, but outside of the top 10 programs or so ya think I'll be alright huh?

If it's a pass with no flags about remediation, I don't think you'll have a problem.

I would still have a good explanation as to what happened on that rotation and how you've hopefully improved since then so that it will never be a problem again

 

[VulcanRaven]

My situation is unique, so any opinions would be helpful.

I am an ICDP-certified pathology-trained dermatopathologist in my late thirties. Over time, my interest in clinical dermatology has become difficult to ignore. Ideally, I hope to practice clinical dermatology and dermpath concurrently. In preparation I have completed the USMLEs and scored about 265 on all of them. What else do I have to do to have a chance at a dermatology residency in the USA?

 

[asmallchild]

My situation is unique, so any opinions would be helpful.

I am an ICDP-certified pathology-trained dermatopathologist in my late thirties. Over time, my interest in clinical dermatology has become difficult to ignore. Ideally, I hope to practice clinical dermatology and dermpath concurrently. In preparation I have completed the USMLEs and scored about 265 on all of them. What else do I have to do to have a chance at a dermatology residency in the USA?

I would assume the pathway would be the same as an IMG medical student. You may want to check the international medical forums though for more details as that would be a very rare pathway for people to take and be able to comment on in this forum: International Medical Forums | Student Doctor Network

 

[dermie1985]

Definitely disagree. It depends on the exact project, but a research letter is definitely a major step up from a case report or case series. It means actually conducting research, formulating a project idea, doing an IRB, creating an analysis plan, doing the analysis, writing a manuscript. Yes....it’s shorter than a full article....though way more impressive than a case report.

I think it depends on who is making that judgment call. Your co-authors on the paper would probably call it substantial

But yes, in general, it's a quicker type project and I would view it in the same vein as a case report or a case series.

 

[Johnny Utah 93]

Hi, I am a current MS3 with a new interest in derm. I know how competitive derm is so I wanted to see where I stand, and what my options are.

Step 1: 248
School: Mid-Tier Allopathic
Grades: (So Far) H - Surgery, HP - Peds + OB
Research: 1 case report (EM), in progress of another EM pub. (previously was interested in EM)
Some volunteer work and student leadership.

I know my research is a big weak point. Any options (other than research year) such as a prelim year or other options I haven't come across. Thanks in advance!

 

[blackblue]

Hi, I am a current MS3 with a new interest in derm. I know how competitive derm is so I wanted to see where I stand, and what my options are.

Step 1: 248
School: Mid-Tier Allopathic
Grades: (So Far) H - Surgery, HP - Peds + OB
Research: 1 case report (EM), in progress of another EM pub. (previously was interested in EM)
Some volunteer work and student leadership.

I know my research is a big weak point. Any options (other than research year) such as a prelim year or other options I haven't come across. Thanks in advance!

Your Step 1 is average/competitive. The ways to become more competitive are to do well during MS3 and to get more research, so honoring your clerkships and trying to get involved with your derm department will be the best way to go. Similar to many of the posters in this thread, there's nothing stopping you from doing derm, but currently nothing stands out either.

I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence, but a prelim year will not improve your chances while a research year would.

 

[Des777]

Hi, I'm a new M3 who has recently become interested in derm. I'd love to know if it's even a possibility for me.

School: Top 10 US MD
Step 1: 232
Step 2: 250
Grades: Honors in surgery, neuro. High pass in OB, psych, FM. Pass in IM, peds
Research: 1 case report, 1 review article, 5 other basic science/clinical papers (2nd-4th author), 2 national conference presentations. All the research has been in a surgical sub
ECs: class president (if that matters at all...), Gold Humanism Honor Society member

Thank you for the advice!

 

[DermApp2020]

Hi, current MS3 looking at applying next year. Looking for advice on whether I should go for it or take a research year.

School: Mid-tier
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Not yet
Grades: Honors in OB, Peds, and FM. IM pending, should hopefully be honors.
AOA: Don't know yet
Research: 1 first author paper in submission, 2 second author papers about to be submitted. 2 oral presentations, 6 poster presentations. 2 more case reports/posters pending.
ECs: VP of DIG. Had a paid position with a popular Step 1 prep company making review materials.

Probably going to do 3 or 4 rotations in MS4, 1 of them at home. We have a home department, where I'm pretty well-known by faculty and residents (hopefully in a good way). A friend of mine is incoming as a PGY-2 here, and will vouch for me at interview as well. I'm just not sure if I should do a research year or not. Research is hard to come by at my school, and I'll probably only end up with maybe 3 papers in the end, if they get accepted in time.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, I'm a new M3 who has recently become interested in derm. I'd love to know if it's even a possibility for me.

School: Top 10 US MD
Step 1: 232
Step 2: 250
Grades: Honors in surgery, neuro. High pass in OB, psych, FM. Pass in IM, peds
Research: 1 case report, 1 review article, 5 other basic science/clinical papers (2nd-4th author), 2 national conference presentations. All the research has been in a surgical sub
ECs: class president (if that matters at all...), Gold Humanism Honor Society member

Thank you for the advice!

Your Step 1 score might be a problem. I would definitely recommend a research year to boost your chances.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, current MS3 looking at applying next year. Looking for advice on whether I should go for it or take a research year.

School: Mid-tier
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Not yet
Grades: Honors in OB, Peds, and FM. IM pending, should hopefully be honors.
AOA: Don't know yet
Research: 1 first author paper in submission, 2 second author papers about to be submitted. 2 oral presentations, 6 poster presentations. 2 more case reports/posters pending.
ECs: VP of DIG. Had a paid position with a popular Step 1 prep company making review materials.

Probably going to do 3 or 4 rotations in MS4, 1 of them at home. We have a home department, where I'm pretty well-known by faculty and residents (hopefully in a good way). A friend of mine is incoming as a PGY-2 here, and will vouch for me at interview as well. I'm just not sure if I should do a research year or not. Research is hard to come by at my school, and I'll probably only end up with maybe 3 papers in the end, if they get accepted in time.

I think you should be fine either way. If you are interested in research, it can only help. If you don't want to take that time off (or can't take that time off), I think your application should be strong enough where you don't need a research year.

 

[Misdermeanor]

@asmallchild Is it alright if I PM you for some advice?

 

[asmallchild]

@asmallchild Is it alright if I PM you for some advice?

Sure absolutely. If you don't feel comfortable posting publicly, you can always change some of the more private details and try posting here. As time marches on, I find myself further and further removed from the application process and there are others here who may prove more helpful. But you can certainly start with me if you prefer

 

[tubeofbread]

Hi, current grad school phase looking to apply in a couple years.

School: Big name (top 5) MD/PhD, 2 years into PhD
Step 1: 249
Step 2: Not yet
Grades: Likely mix of H and HP
AOA: Don't know yet
Research: 1 first author paper (basic science), 1 mid author (oncology). Just started PhD so this should increase
ECs: Lots of interesting stuff that will be good to talk about, but nothing derm specific.

I know my step one score is a little low and my grades I expect will be good, but not great (HP on surgery, but was right at the line with honors and figure that will be my average), but hope that my school+MD/PhD will help.

I've got a few years of grad school where I should get some solid first author derm basic science pubs out, but was considering taking on additional work for some middle author pubs or some on the side clinical research.

My question is- how much should I try and focus on quantity of pubs (like it seems many derm applicants do) vs just having some really good quality ones from my PhD?

Another question- I've got several years to spend in the derm department doing research- what connections will be most valuable to make so far as LOR and getting administrative support for your app?

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, current grad school phase looking to apply in a couple years.

School: Big name (top 5) MD/PhD, 2 years into PhD
Step 1: 249
Step 2: Not yet
Grades: Likely mix of H and HP
AOA: Don't know yet
Research: 1 first author paper (basic science), 1 mid author (oncology). Just started PhD so this should increase
ECs: Lots of interesting stuff that will be good to talk about, but nothing derm specific.

I know my step one score is a little low and my grades I expect will be good, but not great (HP on surgery, but was right at the line with honors and figure that will be my average), but hope that my school+MD/PhD will help.

I've got a few years of grad school where I should get some solid first author derm basic science pubs out, but was considering taking on additional work for some middle author pubs or some on the side clinical research.

My question is- how much should I try and focus on quantity of pubs (like it seems many derm applicants do) vs just having some really good quality ones from my PhD?

Another question- I've got several years to spend in the derm department doing research- what connections will be most valuable to make so far as LOR and getting administrative support for your app?

I think you'll be absolutely fine (and while I rarely say this, perhaps to the point of having your pick of where you want to go). The combo of your school and the MD/PhD is awesome

I would do both if possible. The big key is always going to be high quality publications from your PhD but since you have more time compared to the average applicant, if you can inflate that publication count with some smaller projects (as long as it doesn't detract from your other work), it will only serve to burnish your CV

The other benefit of having a prolonged period to do research is the ability to hopefully leave a solid impression on everyone. You never know who can end up hurting/helping you. Everyone knows to get on the good side of your department chair / department PD / research PI / etc. Be helpful and present for the residents, some may end up staying as faculty and will have a say on your acceptance. Be nice to the research staff, many are also biding their time and preparing to apply for Derm residency themselves. Be nice to the support staff, nothing is as transparently sickening as the student who kisses up to the department chair and somehow stupidly scoffs at/mistreats the chair's secretary / gatekeeper on the way out.

 

[tubeofbread]

Thank you @asmallchild for the vote of confidence. Appreciate the advice as well and will be certain to try to make a good impression throughout my time in graduate school on everyone in the department.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, I'm also wondering whether someone can help me figure out my chances of matching into Derm!

Stats:
-Top 20 medical school
-260 on Step 1
-270 on Step 2 CK
-Honors in IM, FM, Neuro, OB/Gyn, Psych, and Peds but Pass in surgery (I know this is bad, but there was a contributing factor going on in my life that I think is very understandable)
-Research: 1 pub and 1 poster in another field (not first author), 1 publication (shared first author in second place) in another field, 1 first author presentation at a national meeting, 2 other national meeting presentations (not first author), 4 first author posters from undergrad in basic science, senior thesis from undergrad. Working as a contributing author to several non-derm chapters in a medical textbook; this should be published before apps are submitted. Problem is that nothing is derm-related so far.
-GHHS
-AOA not yet announced (hopefully still a possibility for me)

I am wondering whether I have a chance at applying for dermatology this cycle without taking a research year. I really don't want to do one. But I'm concerned about switching my entire schedule around to make room for derm electives/research if my chances aren't great, as this could jeopardize my chances for other fields.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you

Your stats are good enough that of course you have a chance. You are going to need to get some Derm research under your belt.

It's a tough decision to make. The application process for Derm is sometimes so random that only you can make up your mind. It sometimes means passing on another field you would be equally happy in and would have a better chance of matching. I think your stats are certainly good enough, the question is do you want to do Derm enough or pick another field (where given your academic record, I would assume you would match easily)?

 

[NewYorker100]

@asmallchild thank you so much for your encouragement. I think I do love derm enough to go for this. I was planning on trying to get involved in Derm research at my school over the next few months and will then apply in the fall. So no research year should be ok assuming I do some research with the derm department now, right?

 

[asmallchild]

@asmallchild thank you so much for your encouragement. I think I do love derm enough to go for this. I was planning on trying to get involved in Derm research at my school over the next few months and will then apply in the fall. So no research year should be ok assuming I do some research with the derm department now, right?

I think you should be fine. A research year never hurts but I don't think it is necessary in your case. Of course, my recommendation as always is to get some research with your home department, find a mentor/advisor within the department, and see if he/she agrees since they are likely closer to the application process than I will be. Good luck!

 

[NewYorker100]

Sorry if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this, but is it ok to take Step 2 CS in the beginning of September? Will programs still look at me even if I don't have the results until later? I already took CK; CS is the question.

 

[asmallchild]

Sorry if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this, but is it ok to take Step 2 CS in the beginning of September? Will programs still look at me even if I don't have the results until later? I already took CK; CS is the question.

I would double check with more recent applicants or your dean but as far as I know, most programs don't really look at Step 2 CS

That being said, I seem to remember the recommendation to take it at the end of MS3 or at the very beginning of MS4 since the material there most closely mirrors what you've practiced as a MS3

 

[Bifurcate]

Sorry if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this, but is it ok to take Step 2 CS in the beginning of September? Will programs still look at me even if I don't have the results until later? I already took CK; CS is the question.

No one will care about CS. It is good to have your CK score in before ERAS opens though not necessary. I took my CS in December. CS is really just a graduation requirement; it isn't something programs use to stratify applicants.

 

[asmallchild]

Hey everyone, I'm just starting MS3 and would like some advice on what to focus on moving forward:

School: Mid-tier private school
Step 1: 258
Pre-clinical Grades: School is P/F, unranked, and I have passed everything. Probably second quartile.
Third Year Grades: None so far.
AOA: I will not make AOA due to average pre-clinical grades. I focused largely on step prep rather than class material.
Research: 1 first author research letter accepted to a top journal, 1 second author paper accepted to an average journal. 1 poster presentation at my school's research day. I have both another first and second author paper that have been submitted and waiting to hear back. I'm helping with about four other projects where I will be a mid-author (3rd, 4th). All of this is derm specific research with a very, very well known dermatologist.
ECs: Literally none other than my hobbies.

Thinking of doing 2 away rotations in MS4 and both of our home institution's rotations: a research and clinical rotation. Currently, all of my work has been with the one PI and his research fellows who I seem to have good relationships with. I'm concerned that I have not yet attended or presented at any derm conferences, I also have not really interacted at all with any other faculty members at my home institution. I would like to introduce myself to some of the other faculty members, but I can't really offer any assistance with their research since I'm starting third year and still helping out with a few projects in a minor role with my original PI. I also have about five other classmates that are all interested in derm. Any advice??

I think you are off to a good start. Attending or presenting at derm conferences typically isn't considered necessary at the med student level. Same thing with knowing everyone in your faculty. There'll be plenty of time to do that once you start rotations as an MS4. It would be more important to maintain and improve on your good relationship with your current PI so that he/she will go to bat for you when the time comes.

I think your rotation plan is solid too.

Once you get to the clinical rotations, see if you can work with some other faculty members on shorter clinical projects (e.g. a case report) to further bolster your already solid research background.

Good luck!

 

[Foot Fetish]

MS3 here, planning to apply next year. Here are my stats:

Mid tier school
Step 1: 255-260 range
Step 2: TBD
Pre-clinical grades: Passed everything (True P/F, unranked)
Clinical grades: So far, 3 Honors (including IM), 1 Pass (appeal process in place to get it changed to HP), 2 TBD
Research: So far, 4 first-author articles and 3 posters/oral presentations, all in derm. I have 5 other first-author papers typed up and waiting to be submitted, all in derm as well.
ECs: Leadership role in school's dermatology interest group plus some other minor things. I have a pretty interesting life story that has come up on all my college and med school interviews for what it's worth.

Not planning on doing any away rotations. I think my chances won't really be improved significantly by gaining a boost at 1-2 programs when I will be applying super broadly. Am I wrong for thinking this? I was planning on just doing my home program's derm elective and getting all my letters through them. I would probably go to my home program if accepted there.

Due to my particular life circumstances, a research year may unfortunately be out of the question for me. So, I will likely be applying with the above stats no matter what. WAMC? Thank you!!!

 

[asmallchild]

MS3 here, planning to apply next year. Here are my stats:

Mid tier school
Step 1: 255-260 range
Step 2: TBD
Pre-clinical grades: Passed everything (True P/F, unranked)
Clinical grades: So far, 3 Honors (including IM), 1 Pass (appeal process in place to get it changed to HP), 2 TBD
Research: So far, 4 first-author articles and 3 posters/oral presentations, all in derm. I have 5 other first-author papers typed up and waiting to be submitted, all in derm as well.
ECs: Leadership role in school's dermatology interest group plus some other minor things. I have a pretty interesting life story that has come up on all my college and med school interviews for what it's worth.

Not planning on doing any away rotations. I think my chances won't really be improved significantly by gaining a boost at 1-2 programs when I will be applying super broadly. Am I wrong for thinking this? I was planning on just doing my home program's derm elective and getting all my letters through them. I would probably go to my home program if accepted there.

Due to my particular life circumstances, a research year may unfortunately be out of the question for me. So, I will likely be applying with the above stats no matter what. WAMC? Thank you!!!

Do you have enough for 3 LORs without an away rotation? I'm not the biggest fan of aways but I think it's at least worthwhile to do 1. It'll give you a chance to see how another program is run and what you may be looking for in terms of a residency.

Your stats look good. If a research year is out of the question, you'll want to put your best foot forward with this application. That means honoring the rest of 3rd year, getting more research in, doing at least 1 away rotation to get a letter and make connections, consider doing more aways if you are a strong student clinically, and apply broadly

Good luck!

 

[HopeCanyon]

Hi guys,

I could also use your advice.
I’m in my third year, towards the end of clerkships now, and I want to explore dermatology but I’m worried it’s too late given what I’ve read and how outstanding everyone sounds.

I was thinking of going into primary care during my initial years of medical school but then I had my family medicine rotation and loved the derm that walked in the door the most. I also have a family that’s been pretty hard hit by skin cancer so Its gotten personal now.


I’d like to take a derm elective
In 4th year, but I’m not sure it’s possible for me to consider derm seriously. What do you think?

Here are my stats:

Step 1: 249

Research: 1 summer research experience between MS1 and MS2, mostly clinical research ; 2 abstracts and 2 posters (associated with the said abstracts); and 1 lay article publication based off our research in one of the abstracts.

Volunteerism : had a leadership role at my school and organized several volunteer events

Grades: mix of several HP, 1 honor and 2 passes during the first/second year; third year: I passed in internal med and surgery (ouch! I know); honor in family med and psych. Pending for Neuro, ob (completed but waiting on final grades); pending for peds and anesthesia.

I’m really worried abt grades and reasearch. I’m planning on doing an elective early, and based on that trying to do some research over the summer and/or volunteering for skin checks and other events (volunteer work is pretty important to me) .

Also when do people generally take step 2 Cs and CK if they are applying to derm and when do they do away rotations?


Thank you for your help!

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to give an update. I matched!!!!!!! And I just wanted to let others know that it is still possible to match even if you feel like a bit of an under-dog in this field. That is not to say that it was not hard, but I have to thank some of the good advice and encouragement that I got in this thread. So thank you very much for your encouragmeent and advice!!!!!!!

As an update on what I did I'll say that I followed the moderator's advice to the best of my ability: I worked hard on my last rotations, I hunted down research opportunities and worked hard on those, I took Step 2 CK early, and I connected with my school's program director and residents. I also went on three away rotations and worked hard while there and actually matched to one of the places where I rotated.

I have to say I have a lot of respect for the programs where I interviewed ... I think most of them are really interested in not just "great candidates on paper" but are also looking for people who have an earnest interest in the field and are genuine. Those are the things I tried to focus on, and I think they wouldn't have interviewed me if they also didn't value those things.

Best of luck to you all and stay positive!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to give an update. I matched!!!!!!! And I just wanted to let others know that it is still possible to match even if you feel like a bit of an under-dog in this field. That is not to say that it was not hard, but I have to thank some of the good advice and encouragement that I got in this thread. So thank you very much for your encouragmeent and advice!!!!!!!

As an update on what I did I'll say that I followed the moderator's advice to the best of my ability: I worked hard on my last rotations, I hunted down research opportunities and worked hard on those, I took Step 2 CK early, and I connected with my school's program director and residents. I also went on three away rotations and worked hard while there and actually matched to one of the places where I rotated.

I have to say I have a lot of respect for the programs where I interviewed ... I think most of them are really interested in not just "great candidates on paper" but are also looking for people who have an earnest interest in the field and are genuine. Those are the things I tried to focus on, and I think they wouldn't have interviewed me if they also didn't value those things.

Best of luck to you all and stay positive!

Congrats and thank you for providing an update! Wishing you the best of luck in your career!

 

[skinlessderm]

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to give an update. I matched!!!!!!! And I just wanted to let others know that it is still possible to match even if you feel like a bit of an under-dog in this field. That is not to say that it was not hard, but I have to thank some of the good advice and encouragement that I got in this thread. So thank you very much for your encouragmeent and advice!!!!!!!

As an update on what I did I'll say that I followed the moderator's advice to the best of my ability: I worked hard on my last rotations, I hunted down research opportunities and worked hard on those, I took Step 2 CK early, and I connected with my school's program director and residents. I also went on three away rotations and worked hard while there and actually matched to one of the places where I rotated.

I have to say I have a lot of respect for the programs where I interviewed ... I think most of them are really interested in not just "great candidates on paper" but are also looking for people who have an earnest interest in the field and are genuine. Those are the things I tried to focus on, and I think they wouldn't have interviewed me if they also didn't value those things.

Best of luck to you all and stay positive!

That's wonderful. Thanks for the update. How many interviews did you end up getting?

 

[ehtsuperstar]

MS3 wondering if I should take a research year or go for it.

I'm at a mid-tier school in the South.
Step 1: 253
Step 2: not taken yet
AOA: unknown, depends on third year grades.
Grades: at a honors/ pass school. honors in surgery, OB, Psych. Pass in medicine, family medicine. Unknown grade for peds, neuro.
Research: 3 total publications in print (all first author, derm related), 2 more submitted, a few more pending. 3 poster presentations.

What do you guys advise?

 

[asmallchild]

MS3 wondering if I should take a research year or go for it.

I'm at a mid-tier school in the South.
Step 1: 253
Step 2: not taken yet
AOA: unknown, depends on third year grades.
Grades: at a honors/ pass school. honors in surgery, OB, Psych. Pass in medicine, family medicine. Unknown grade for peds, neuro.
Research: 3 total publications in print (all first author, derm related), 2 more submitted, a few more pending. 3 poster presentations.

What do you guys advise?

I think your stats are good enough. There's always uncertainty in the match process. Do you have a home department? Do you have a lot of applicants from your school your year? Are there a lot of applicants in general during your match year?

If you plan on applying without a research year, it's the same advice I'd give everyone. Get to know your home department well. Honor as much as you can from here on out. Do some more research if you can. Do at least 1-2 aways. Apply broadly.

If you have even an inkling about doing a research year, it never hurts and would bolster your CV further. Good luck!

 

[nvrsaynvr]

MS3 interested in Derm. Unconventional candidate. PhD in infectious disease from a very prestigious school. Worked as a research scientist for several years. >20 publications, many first author. 1 US Govt Patent. Have good grant-writing experience. Have extensive experience in microbiology, immunology, molecular biology and molecular genetics. Also a Hospitalist PA. Tried PA school first because it was short but realized I needed more knowledge for my satisfaction. Did first two years of medical school at Caribbean school because Undergrad was from foreign country. Good MCAT score so transferred as 3rd year into a small US medical school.

Preclinical years: straight As.
Step 1: 256
3rd year: Honors in all except OBGYN and FM (missed by 1 point). Getting great narrative summaries for MSPE.
No home dept in dermatology. Trying to schedule 2 away rotations.
Step 2 in July 2019 but confident of >260 based on test scores.

Wondering if I am too complicated to match in derm. Will be 40 while starting residency.

 

[asmallchild]

MS3 interested in Derm. Unconventional candidate. PhD in infectious disease from a very prestigious school. Worked as a research scientist for several years. >20 publications, many first author. 1 US Govt Patent. Have good grant-writing experience. Have extensive experience in microbiology, immunology, molecular biology and molecular genetics. Also a Hospitalist PA. Tried PA school first because it was short but realized I needed more knowledge for my satisfaction. Did first two years of medical school at Caribbean school because Undergrad was from foreign country. Good MCAT score so transferred as 3rd year into a small US medical school.

Preclinical years: straight As.
Step 1: 256
3rd year: Honors in all except OBGYN and FM (missed by 1 point). Getting great narrative summaries for MSPE.
No home dept in dermatology. Trying to schedule 2 away rotations.
Step 2 in July 2019 but confident of >260 based on test scores.

Wondering if I am too complicated to match in derm. Will be 40 while starting residency.

I think it cuts both ways. There are certainly programs that will want a more conventional candidate (particularly without a previous journey through a Caribbean medical school)

Conversely, you have a very unique history that could be interesting to a lot of derm programs. Your stats are certainly good enough. If you are interested, I would say give it a shot in terms of applying. I wouldn't worry about your age, we had multiple residents at our program with unconventional backgrounds and were older upon starting (previous career as a lawyer, previous career as a doctor in a different specialty in a different country, previous career as a research scientist)

 

[dermhopeful20]

Hi everyone!

MS3 almost MS4 here seeking some advice. Here are my stats:
School: Mid-tier school in the West
Step 1: 250
Step 2: Will take before applying
Third year: 2 Honors in IM and FM. Everything else HP's.
Research: 2 derm related pubs. 3 non-derm related abstracts and posters presented at ASCO. 3 derm pubs in submission.
EC's and Leadership: Almost none

I will also be couple's matching with my significant other who is applying for FM. With that in mind and my lack EC's and leadership, is it even possible that I have a decent chance at matching somewhere? My faculty adviser was very candid with me, which I appreciate, but he told me that I have too many deficits in my application such as my third year grades and lack of EC's/leadership. He also told me that since I am couple's matching and not taking a research year, all of this combined would tank my application and that I should seriously consider applying to less competitive specialties such as IM and FM.

Of course I knew dermatology was very competitive, but it was very disheartening to hear all of this. I really can't see myself interested in any other specialty but I also understand I need to be realistic. Thank you all in advance!!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone!

MS3 almost MS4 here seeking some advice. Here are my stats:
School: Mid-tier school in the West
Step 1: 250
Step 2: Will take before applying
Third year: 2 Honors in IM and FM. Everything else HP's.
Research: 2 derm related pubs. 3 non-derm related abstracts and posters presented at ASCO. 3 derm pubs in submission.
EC's and Leadership: Almost none

I will also be couple's matching with my significant other who is applying for FM. With that in mind and my lack EC's and leadership, is it even possible that I have a decent chance at matching somewhere? My faculty adviser was very candid with me, which I appreciate, but he told me that I have too many deficits in my application such as my third year grades and lack of EC's/leadership. He also told me that since I am couple's matching and not taking a research year, all of this combined would tank my application and that I should seriously consider applying to less competitive specialties such as IM and FM.

Of course I knew dermatology was very competitive, but it was very disheartening to hear all of this. I really can't see myself interested in any other specialty but I also understand I need to be realistic. Thank you all in advance!!

I hope someone else can chime in on this.

Normally, I would say to apply if you want to. Derm programs don't typically factor in ECs or leadership positions unless you have a great story linked to them (even then, you would need to qualify academically to reach the interview stage where that material can shine)

Is your faculty adviser in derm or in the dean's office in the school? If it's the latter, they care more that you match rather than what you match into. If it's the former and it's someone within your home department, then I would heed that warning since they are giving you a veiled message that you are unlikely to match with them.

I think the big problem will be the couples match. If I remember correctly, the advice I got was to apply separately. 3+ years can be a long time to spend apart and for many, it will not be worth it. But if you want the best possible chance of matching derm, couples match is usually problematic unless both applicants are superstars. I'm hoping someone can chime in more on this as I'm not too familiar anymore with how couples matching works and whether the above advice is accurate.

 

[dairyboy1124]

MS3 also wondering if I should take a research year or just go for it.

Top 40 state school in Midwest
Step 1: 251
Step 2 CK: Waiting for score
Third Year: H in Peds, OB, Surgery, IM, and 2 surgical electives. P in FM, Neuro, Psych
AOA: Nominated but not selected
Research: Have 2 mid-author basic science papers from first two years of medical school, a couple research awards for poster presentations, and a first author basic science manuscript almost complete (cardiology related) but not sure when it will get published. No derm research whatsoever.

Have always been a little wishy-washy with what I wanted to pursue and was leaning towards internal medicine or pediatrics, but did a derm elective and it was everything I had been looking for. My home derm program is decent but I haven't really talked to any advisers at my school, and the rest of my 3rd/4th year rotations would require a drastic change. Am willing to take a research year but would obviously rather go straight through. Just looking for a little direction, thank you!

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

MS3 also wondering if I should take a research year or just go for it.

Top 40 state school in Midwest
Step 1: 251
Step 2 CK: Waiting for score
Third Year: H in Peds, OB, Surgery, IM, and 2 surgical electives. P in FM, Neuro, Psych
AOA: Nominated but not selected
Research: Have 2 mid-author basic science papers from first two years of medical school, a couple research awards for poster presentations, and a first author basic science manuscript almost complete (cardiology related) but not sure when it will get published. No derm research whatsoever.

Have always been a little wishy-washy with what I wanted to pursue and was leaning towards internal medicine or pediatrics, but did a derm elective and it was everything I had been looking for. My home derm program is decent but I haven't really talked to any advisers at my school, and the rest of my 3rd/4th year rotations would require a drastic change. Am willing to take a research year but would obviously rather go straight through. Just looking for a little direction, thank you!

Your school reputation, step 1, and clinical grades all are pretty average for derm, which is a good thing. Not having AOA hurts but doesn't disqualify you. No dermatology research whatsoever is what would likely torpedo your application. Average derm matched applicant has 15 publications/Posters/etc, the majority of which if not most of which will be dermatology related. Applying this year, this late, would be super risky.

With a productive research year (several papers, case reports, conferences, AAD, etc) I think you would be a shoe in for dermatology as you'd be around average for matched applicants in terms of step/grades/research, but applying with no dermatology research would not look good and probably not likely to work out. Your best odds are during your first application cycle as a graduating senior, it only gets harder after failing to match once. If you really care about matching into dermatology I think you best chance of success would be taking a research year to flesh out your research/CV and applying when you are competitive to match.

 

[RhesusPuffs]

how important are 4th year grades? for aways/electives, my school does p/f, but theres an option on the evaluation form to mention that this student would have gotten H/HP/P/F if the clerkship was graded in that manner, which might go in MSPE.

 

[asmallchild]

how important are 4th year grades? for aways/electives, my school does p/f, but theres an option on the evaluation form to mention that this student would have gotten H/HP/P/F if the clerkship was graded in that manner, which might go in MSPE.

You will want to honor or pass all your Derm rotations

The other grades aren't as important but you'll still want to ideally get H or HP

A pass with bad comments (or worse, a F) can only hurt you. I wouldn't let yourself go quite that far as an MS4. It wouldn't look good anyway if applying for a competitive prelim or TY program

 

[insocrat]

Hi all, new MS3 also curious about a research year. Attending a mid-tier state school in the midwest. I know it's a long shot to match outside of a particular region in derm, but was also curious on what my chances would be on the west coast/what I could do to improve those chances.

Step 1: 254
Clinical grades/Step 2 CK all TBD

Research: 1 derm poster, 3 derm pubs in submission, one more in the works that could yield multiple abstracts/posters etc. Have not personally attended any conferences yet.

Any advice on how to improve my application in general and what to focus on in the next ~1.5 years would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks!