(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[asmallchild]

Hi everyone,
I’ve enjoyed reading through this thread and was hoping I could get some advice for myself. I am not 100% certain, but I’ve recently decided that I would like to pursue dermatology. I have already participated in a 2 week elective course early in my M3 year and am scheduled to do a 4 week at my home institution in July.

Top 40 medical school
Step 1: 250
Step 2: haven’t taken
Class percentile: top 25%
AOA: invited to apply, still waiting to hear back

Clinical Grades: Our school does top 15% H, the next 25% HP
H in neuro, inpatient IM/outpatient IM, OBGYN, Family Med and my elective courses
HP in psych, surgery
P in Peds

Research: Currently have 2 first author pubs (both surgical oncology), 2 submitted second author pubs (1 surg onc and 1 basic science onc). Also have 2 oral presentations, 2 poster presentations, and 4 abstracts (these presentations/abstracts are from the publications above), and one research award given to the top research project at my school. I am currently working on another surgical onc paper that should yield me a 1st or 2nd author pub. Additionally, I recently met with my home department and will be getting involved in a dermatology project in the upcoming months.

Extracurricular- decent volunteering/leadership/involvement within the medical school

I am planning to do a home rotation, a home research rotation, and 2 aways. Given my stats, what are my chances? I understand my scores aren’t extremely high and would like to know which schools (top 10, top 20, etc) are out of reach for me. Thanks!

You should be in good shape. I don't see anything that would prove problematic. I would make sure you have a good answer as to why you transitioned from a career in surgical oncology to one in dermatology.

As good as your stats are, I wouldn't go stratifying programs based on rank. I would apply to as many as you can (ideally all), I would take as many interviews as you can (ideally all but sometimes schedules won't allow for that). And I would rank all of the programs you can truly see yourself at.

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[asmallchild]

Hey everyone,

Been wanting to do derm for a while now, do you think I have a shot?

Currently an M3
School: mid-rank US MD
Step 1: 251
Step 2: have not taken yet
Pre-clinical grades: 3.8 GPA (All honors except for 2 HP)
Clinical grades: 1 H, 3 HP so far
Research: 4 published articles (1 first author), 1 book chapter, a 5-figure research grant (the resulting research will be submitted for publication in a few weeks and I am 1st author), 2 pending case reports, and currently working on another project.
Hopefully will have a total of 9 solid pubs by summer time (all derm-related).

I also have volunteering and extracurriculars.

Same as the poster above. You are in good shape. I would make sure you have a solid plan in terms of rotations for M4. If you can add more research/pubs/connections in between now and then, all the better. And same, apply broadly and I think you'll be in good shape.

 

[FunnyBuddy]

Same as the poster above. You are in good shape. I would make sure you have a solid plan in terms of rotations for M4. If you can add more research/pubs/connections in between now and then, all the better. And same, apply broadly and I think you'll be in good shape.

Thank you so much for the feedback, it's so awesome that you are doing this thread! My plan right now is to do a couple of away rotations during July & August, followed by a rotation with my home program. I also plan to get involved with research during my aways if possible!

Thanks again!

 

[HopeCanyon]

It's not too late at all, your Step 1 is fine. Clinical grades could be better but nothing you can do at this point other than improve on your remaining rotations.

I think if you are interested, it would be worth shadowing as soon as possible. If it's something you still like after shadowing, then yes, I would work immediately to start with some research (introduce yourself to your home department if you have one)

You'll also want to work on away rotations soon as well. I believe there is a system called VSAS in place now so you'll want to talk with your home department, current students interested in derm, and your academic dean to see what the timing is for applying for visiting rotations through VSAS.

If you are a good taker and feel confident you'll improve on your Step 1 score, I would knock out Step 2 CS and CK as soon as you can. Your Step 1 score is good enough where if you don't feel confident, you can certainly delay it as long as your school will allow. There are more programs now requiring Step 2 CK before they'll review your application so you'll need to peruse the list of programs you plan to apply to, see if they require CK, and adjust accordingly.

Good luck!

Oh boy.... after reading the other posts, I'm feeling pretty intimidated. Do I honestly have a shot of matching into a Derm residency if I'm being compared to people with better grades and much more research experience? How worried should I be? Should I be doing anything else? Thank you again!

 

[asmallchild]

Oh boy.... after reading the other posts, I'm feeling pretty intimidated. Do I honestly have a shot of matching into a Derm residency if I'm being compared to people with better grades and much more research experience? How worried should I be? Should I be doing anything else? Thank you again!

While it's human nature to do so, I would urge you not to compare yourself with your classmates or these anonymous posters on SDN.

As you've already mentioned, all it will do is intimidate you.

You need to figure out if you want to do derm. If it is, put your best foot forward and that is all you can do.

You can't go back and change your grades, all you can focus on is honoring what you have left. You can always take time off for a research year if you feel you don't have enough research. If you have a home department and someone you can trust within that department, ask them to give you a realistic appraisal of where you stand. (That being said, if they aren't the chair or the PD, they're still guessing just like the rest of us are)

If you really want to do it, go for it and don't look back

 

[prica]

Hi Everyone!!!

I'm currently an MS3 just finishing my surgery clerkship. I come from a low tier school with very little research activity going on. I've always wanted to consider dermatology as a potential residency, but I've always been scared to seriously consider it. I just wrote to the residency program director at my school to introduce myself, look for advice and potential research opportunities. My home school's dermatology program is extremely competitive, 3 out of the 4 spots are given to candidates who have already completed other residencies (IM, Surgery, etc). I'm an underrepresented minority in medicine, if that is relevant at all.

The following are my stats:

GPA: (3.48 MS1 + 4.00 MS2) = 3.72 (Top 25%). Im expecting a 4.00 in MS3 as well.
Step1: 259 1st try.
Step2 CK & CS: Not yet taken
Research: 3 summers as an undergrad, 1 summer at MS1-MS2. Lots of posters and abstracts, no real publications.
Extracurriculars: Many service experiences, currently in a leadership position in my class board.
AOA: Nominated... members have not been announced yet.

I'm hoping anyone around here could give me advice about my chances. What are some programs I can look into?

 

[asmallchild]

Hi Everyone!!!

I'm currently an MS3 just finishing my surgery clerkship. I come from a low tier school with very little research activity going on. I've always wanted to consider dermatology as a potential residency, but I've always been scared to seriously consider it. I just wrote to the residency program director at my school to introduce myself, look for advice and potential research opportunities. My home school's dermatology program is extremely competitive, 3 out of the 4 spots are given to candidates who have already completed other residencies (IM, Surgery, etc). I'm an underrepresented minority in medicine, if that is relevant at all.

The following are my stats:

GPA: (3.48 MS1 + 4.00 MS2) = 3.72 (Top 25%). Im expecting a 4.00 in MS3 as well.
Step1: 259 1st try.
Step2 CK & CS: Not yet taken
Research: 3 summers as an undergrad, 1 summer at MS1-MS2. Lots of posters and abstracts, no real publications.
Extracurriculars: Many service experiences, currently in a leadership position in my class board.
AOA: Nominated... members have not been announced yet.

I'm hoping anyone around here could give me advice about my chances. What are some programs I can look into?

I think you will be fine. You will definitely want do some derm-specific research as quickly as possible. Getting connected with your home program is always a good idea. I wouldn't eliminate any programs, you'll want to apply to as many as possible.

In terms of your home program, is that a yearly occurrence or something special with the most recent class of accepted residents? I've heard of programs being friendly towards residents who had completed training in other fields but I've never heard of programs that intentionally seek these kinds of trainees out annually??

 

[Dermdreams]

Hi everyone! I’m a third year at a top 5 school. Was very undecided about specialties but now want to do derm after completing a month long derm elective because I loved the mix of diagnosis and procedures possible in derm. Would be happy to go anywhere but am getting concerned as i will have a ton of very competitive classmates applying to derm as well. Let me know if I stand a chance. I’m a URM if that matters. Am going to reach out to profs to find research soon and am definitely taking a research year. Let me know if you think I’d stand a chance.

Step 1: 231
Step 2: not yet (and I’m no good at tests)
No preclin grades or ranking
Clinical grades: honors in surg and IM, pass in neuro and obgyn

Research: one non-derm publication, one non-derm case report

 

[A$AP]

Hi everyone! I’m a third year at a top 5 school. Was very undecided about specialties but now want to do derm after completing a month long derm elective because I loved the mix of diagnosis and procedures possible in derm. Would be happy to go anywhere but am getting concerned as i will have a ton of very competitive classmates applying to derm as well. Let me know if I stand a chance. I’m a URM if that matters. Am going to reach out to profs to find research soon and am definitely taking a research year. Let me know if you think I’d stand a chance.

Step 1: 231
Step 2: not yet (and I’m no good at tests)
No preclin grades or ranking
Clinical grades: honors in surg and IM, pass in neuro and obgyn

Research: one non-derm publication, one non-derm case report

That Step 1 will unfortunately get you screened out at most places. Impossible to match? No. But you'll have to really assess yourself and how much you want it

 

[Dermdreams]

That Step 1 will unfortunately get you screened out at most places. Impossible to match? No. But you'll have to really assess yourself and how much you want it

I definitely want it!! But what do I have to do to make it possible for myself? What is even within my reach?

 

[A$AP]

I definitely want it!! But what do I have to do to make it possible for myself? What is even within my reach?

Your choice to do a research year and the fact that you go to a top 5 school are very good starts to making this a reality. I would try to do as well as you can during your year and get as much backing/recommendation from mentors as possible. Besides that making sure you finish the rest of your med school strong and do well on any aways you may do. It is pretty much an unspoken rule in derm that most programs basically filter out Step 1s <240. Obviously I have no direct proof of this so don't take it as exact, but this is my understanding from everything that I've heard, researched, and info I got straight from the mouths of PDs. I'm an M3 applying to derm too, I go to a mid-tier state school with ~260, near-all honors, AOA, and I am taking a research year as well because I too am concerned about matching anywhere - it's the reality of the most competitive specialty in medicine. If this is what you really want and you can't see yourself in anything else, do your absolute best during the next 2 years and take your shot. But do keep in mind the very real possibility that your step 1 will be a serious issue.

 

[STJim]

Hey all, I’m considering derm and matching seems terrifying. My biggest concern is my lack of research and not being AOA. I am finishing my last rotation in third year but am definitely taking a research year.

Step1: 258
Clinical: 4H, 2HP
Research: 2 Abstracts in another field. Starting research in derm now
AOA: Not sure, but leaning towards no
Extracurriculars: Clinic leader for a while

I know research will be a big thing but I’m starting that now and will hopefully have some things to show for it in the next year. How big of a factor is AOA? Also how much do they factor in step 2?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[asmallchild]

Hey all, I’m considering derm and matching seems terrifying. My biggest concern is my lack of research and not being AOA. I am finishing my last rotation in third year but am definitely taking a research year.

Step1: 258
Clinical: 4H, 2HP
Research: 2 Abstracts in another field. Starting research in derm now
AOA: Not sure, but leaning towards no
Extracurriculars: Clinic leader for a while

I know research will be a big thing but I’m starting that now and will hopefully have some things to show for it in the next year. How big of a factor is AOA? Also how much do they factor in step 2?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

I think you should be in good shape especially with the research year

AOA is a big factor for many programs but I always tell applicants to worry about what they can control and apply broadly.

Step 2 isn't much of a factor but my understanding is that may be changing as some programs will require that you provide your Step 2 scores at the time of application. If you are taking a research year and are a good test taker, you may want to get Step 2 done before you take your time off. If you aren't a great test taker, the research year should provide plenty of time to publish, make connections, and hopefully ace Step 2 as well.

 

[NRAI2001]

I m not sure if this has been addressed... but what about having completed a first residency prior to applying to Derm? Like completing a residency in Peds, IM, or FM?

 

[asmallchild]

I m not sure if this has been addressed... but what about having completed a first residency prior to applying to Derm? Like completing a residency in Peds, IM, or FM?

Yes, in general, it lowers your chances because funding issues come into play. There are some programs that have a history of taking residents who have already completed residencies in another specialty. I would see if you can target one of those, ask to speak to an alumni, and see how to best proceed from there.

 

[soulcity]

Very late interest in Derm (end of M3). Seeing some interesting derm paths in wards piqued my interest in this field. I shadowed dermatologists (general and Mohs) in the community and I loved what I saw. Just not sure whether to pursue this field because of the competitiveness...

Step1 : 247
Pre-Clinical: top 25%
Clinical: H in Surgery and FM. P in IM (I know, it sucks). HP Neuro and Psych. No grades yet for ob or peds
Research: 15 + publications, abstracts, and presentations, but none are derm-related.

Thoughts?

 

[asmallchild]

Very late interest in Derm (end of M3). Seeing some interesting derm paths in wards piqued my interest in this field. I shadowed dermatologists (general and Mohs) in the community and I loved what I saw. Just not sure whether to pursue this field because of the competitiveness...

Step1 : 247
Pre-Clinical: top 25%
Clinical: H in Surgery and FM. P in IM (I know, it sucks). HP Neuro and Psych. No grades yet for ob or peds
Research: 15 + publications, abstracts, and presentations, but none are derm-related.

Thoughts?

Your stats are good enough. I think you'll definitely want to get started right away in terms of introducing yourself to your home department, setting up research projects, setting up away rotations, etc

You always have the option of taking a research year as well (if you are as prolific with derm research as with your prior field, you'll be in good shape!)

 

[soulcity]

Your stats are good enough. I think you'll definitely want to get started right away in terms of introducing yourself to your home department, setting up research projects, setting up away rotations, etc

You always have the option of taking a research year as well (if you are as prolific with derm research as with your prior field, you'll be in good shape!)

I looked at VSAS and it seems that for a lot of programs you can't even apply for aways yet. Am I missing something?

 

[asmallchild]

I looked at VSAS and it seems that for a lot of programs you can't even apply for aways yet. Am I missing something?

That could be the case. I'm dating myself but I applied for derm before VSAS and by the time I had decided to pursue dermatology (around this time), there were few away rotations left in the more competitive cities/locations

Hopefully with everything being routed through VSAS, you'll have more time and find it to be a much more orderly process

 

[ladoctora2]

Third year at mid-tier MD school applying this fall

Step1: 256
Pre-clinical: top quartile
Clinical: not sure, we don't have H/HP/P system, just number grades, probably 2nd quartile
Research: ~25 publications in derm, roughly 12 first author, some are first author in big journals like JAAD, JID, BJD etc
AOA: No, possibly senior AOA but not counting on it
Extracurriculars: couple random volunteer things nothing special

I plan to apply to all programs, have no real ties or preference, and would be grateful for a spot anywhere. I feel my strengths are research, I have an amazing PI with connections, step 1 is solid. I'm a little worried about clinical grades not that mine are poor exactly but how do programs compare a 90 to a HP/H to an A-? It seems so arbitrary. Also I don't really have any firm EC's or leadership roles since starting med school. I chose to delegate my limited extra time to research rather than clubs and stuff. I didn't take a year off.

I'm also not sure where to do aways or how many to do. In all honesty I don't want to do any due to $ and added stress.The majority of 4th years at my school who just matched didn't do an away at the program they matched at and it makes aways feel unnecessary but I'm willing to do whatever it takes. thanks.

 

[A$AP]

Third year at mid-tier MD school applying this fall

Step1: 256
Pre-clinical: top quartile
Clinical: not sure, we don't have H/HP/P system, just number grades, probably 2nd quartile
Research: ~25 publications in derm, roughly 12 first author, some are first author in big journals like JAAD, JID, BJD etc
AOA: No, possibly senior AOA but not counting on it
Extracurriculars: couple random volunteer things nothing special

I plan to apply to all programs, have no real ties or preference, and would be grateful for a spot anywhere. I feel my strengths are research, I have an amazing PI with connections, step 1 is solid. I'm a little worried about clinical grades not that mine are poor exactly but how do programs compare a 90 to a HP/H to an A-? It seems so arbitrary. Also I don't really have any firm EC's or leadership roles since starting med school. I chose to delegate my limited extra time to research rather than clubs and stuff. I didn't take a year off.

I'm also not sure where to do aways or how many to do. In all honesty I don't want to do any due to $ and added stress.The majority of 4th years at my school who just matched didn't do an away at the program they matched at and it makes aways feel unnecessary but I'm willing to do whatever it takes. thanks.

Sounds to me like your a solid candidate, especially thanks to that that research/connected PI. Grades/AOA status may be a minus but looks like you have other things to def keep you in the running.

 

[throwaway0987]

You should be fine. Your Step 1 score should get you past almost all the filters. Seems like you are a strong student clinically. I would agree with trying to add in some derm research during your lighter MS3 and MS4 rotations. And then same advice, apply broadly, take as many interviews as you can, rank all the places you can see yourself (ideally all the places you've interviewed at), and good luck!

Thank you so much for all the advice you give us on this thread! Much appreciated!

I am currently working on derm projects now with the hopes they will come to fruition by the time ERAS opens. Will submitted publications be frowned upon? I am hoping for actual acceptance/ publication but not sure if that is a realistic timeline.

 

[Foot Fetish]

Thank you so much for all the advice you give us on this thread! Much appreciated!

I am currently working on derm projects now with the hopes they will come to fruition by the time ERAS opens. Will submitted publications be frowned upon? I am hoping for actual acceptance/ publication but not sure if that is a realistic timeline.

I don't think they're frowned upon per se. I think they see it as:

Published = accepted for publication >>>>> submitted ~>= in progress > nothing

 

[Asherawh]

If you go to Google and search "Results of the 2016 NRMP Program Director Survey," you'll be able to find the statistics of all the people who matched into any residency.

 

[asmallchild]

School- top 15
Step1- 260+
Third year- overall only 1 honors, rest HP (this is why I'm hesitant, I'm not in the first quartile of students at my school)
Research- Derm basic science grant, 2 basic science derm posters + abstract + poster presentation at JID for same project, 1 submitted first author clinical study to JAAD, 2 posters from undergrad (non derm)
AOA- depends on third year grades so probably not
Letters- one from basic science pi, one from clinical pi, one from away probably (or two)

What do you think? If I do 3 aways + 1 home and do well do you think I have a good chance?

You should be in good shape, looks like the only drawback is your clinal grades (I can commiserate, I had a similar experience in med school)

My only word of caution is to figure out WHY you aren't honoring your clinical rotations. Sometimes it really is bad luck, only the top 1% or 5% or 10% get honors, everyone else has to settle for high pass. Sometimes the student really isn't as good as they think they are. (Mine was a combination of going to a school with a very strict honors policy, only the top 5% qualify and being a quieter student. Sometimes doing good work isn't enough, there's a certain amount of hobnobbing without going overboard that the best students mastered and I never did)

If you aren't as strong clinically, the more aways you do, the worse you may come off.

This will require some honest introspection to figure out where on the spectrum you fall clinically.

There's also a whole bunch of luck in this process. As luck would have it, the program where I ultimately matched was looking for a student who was quiet and would get work done after having bad experiences with on paper superstars who made life difficult for other residents and attendings.

 

[ERDOC555]

I am an IMG pursuing dermatology residency

Step 1: 256
Step 2: 260

Just got the results today.
Is this still possible ? Should I switch to IM?

I graduated at the top of my class with a 4.0 GPA, honors in all clinical rotations and was the valedictorian of my medical class.
I am currently pursuing an observership in the US to gain US LORs and hopefully a research year if possible to get some publications

If you were a USMD you'd be good to go once you got research, however as an IMG this makes matching dermatology near impossible. Less than 10 IMGs matched in total in 2016 for dermatology.

I would stick to IM, preferably one with a derm program at the hospital, and then you could try to backdoor into the derm program there for after you complete your IM residency or at least have them write letters and vouch for you if you applied after completing a strong IM residency.

Bottomlime, no matter how good your scores, no dermatology program is going to consider an IMG who hasn't spent significant time in the US healthcare system already, (i.e. research years, other residencies), it's just too much of a gamble especially when they are overwhelmed with already great USMDs.

 

[MedicalSport]

Thank you so much for your quick response I really appreciate it ! I may have to stick to internal medicine then

IMO, anything in life is possible, if you really really really want it. In this case, you will probably have to commit to 2-3 "research years", and even then it's an uphill battle. The University of Miami is notorious for that. IMGs complete 5-6 years of research and are then accepted to their residency. They tend to prefer Spanish speaking IMGs, but will consider others (some of their recent IMGs are from Iran and former Yugoslavia)

 

[FunnyBuddy]

I am an IMG pursuing dermatology residency

Step 1: 256
Step 2: 260

Just got the results today.
Is this still possible ? Should I switch to IM?

I graduated at the top of my class with a 4.0 GPA, honors in all clinical rotations and was the valedictorian of my medical class.
I am currently pursuing an observership in the US to gain US LORs and hopefully a research year if possible to get some publications

I may not know much since I am still a student, but I would say to still dual-apply. I know some other replies told you that derm is nearly impossible for IMG, but I would still apply to some derm programs along with IM. You never know, you may get a derm interview or two and they may really like you.

 

[ERDOC555]

I may not know much since I am still a student, but I would say to still dual-apply. I know some other replies told you that derm is nearly impossible for IMG, but I would still apply to some derm programs along with IM. You never know, you may get a derm interview or two and they may really like you.

I'm curious to hear what other more experienced members have to say on this? I too am a medical student so some of the nuances of the application process are over my head. I had read on other threads here that applying as a re-applicant could greatly hurt your chances compared to someone who did research years/residency first and took the time to apply once properly. If someone has true aspirations for eventually matching dermatology it might not be worth it to shotgun out applications early on with a lackluster application if it would end up hurting your chances down the road. Hopefully some more experienced members can clarify this.

 

[asmallchild]

I'm curious to hear what other more experienced members have to say on this? I too am a medical student so some of the nuances of the application process are over my head. I had read on other threads here that applying as a re-applicant could greatly hurt your chances compared to someone who did research years/residency first and took the time to apply once properly. If someone has true aspirations for eventually matching dermatology it might not be worth it to shotgun out applications early on with a lackluster application if it would end up hurting your chances down the road. Hopefully some more experienced members can clarify this.

This is correct.

In general, your first time applying is going to be your best shot.

So my recommendation is that if you cannot imagine doing anything other than derm, it would be worth doing a research fellowship before applying.

Now if you are OK using IM as a backup option and don't want to take time off to do derm research, then you can certainly try applying to both at the same time.

 

[Abagnale]

Hello everyone! This thread has been very helpful for me so far. I posted previously, now that I'm in 4th year s/p research year and preparing to apply, my data is more complete, and would love updated advice to gauge my competitiveness for certain programs. I'll be happy to match and be a dermatologist, but I'm ideally shooting for a solid academic derm program as I'm strongly considering being involved in research later in life.

School: Mid-level private school
Step 1: 260s
Step 2: 260s (few points above Step 1)
Step 2CS: Pass 1st try
AOA: Likely will be AOA (depends on 3rd year grades and Step 1)
Pre-clinical: All P at a true P/F school.
Clinical: 6/6 Honors (M3), Honors in IM Sub-I (M4)
Research: 8 completed publications in various fields (including 3 as 1st author, one 1st author derm case-report), 3 derm/onc pubs currently in review (2 as 1st-author), 5-6 will be submitted by application time (4 as 1st author), and 9 total of abstracts/reviews/book chapters/presentations (mix of derm/non-derm).
Letters: Two from basic science/clinical PIs (likely very strong), one from home derm, one from IM (or maybe 1 from upcoming away)
Extras: Two years at free student-run clinic, 1 of those years had a minor leadership role. Some tutoring.

I have two main worries:
1. Was involved in basic science research this year - projects take a while - thus I will have multiple things submitted but not yet accepted by the time I apply.
2. Although I feel like I have strong scores/grades/research/letters(?) I don't really have many extras.

 

[asmallchild]

Hello everyone! This thread has been very helpful for me so far. I posted previously, now that I'm in 4th year s/p research year and preparing to apply, my data is more complete, and would love updated advice to gauge my competitiveness for certain programs. I'll be happy to match and be a dermatologist, but I'm ideally shooting for a solid academic derm program as I'm strongly considering being involved in research later in life.

School: Mid-level private school
Step 1: 260s
Step 2: 260s (few points above Step 1)
Step 2CS: Pass 1st try
AOA: Likely will be AOA (depends on 3rd year grades and Step 1)
Pre-clinical: All P at a true P/F school.
Clinical: 6/6 Honors (M3), Honors in IM Sub-I (M4)
Research: 8 completed publications in various fields (including 3 as 1st author, one 1st author derm case-report), 3 derm/onc pubs currently in review (2 as 1st-author), 5-6 will be submitted by application time (4 as 1st author), and 9 total of abstracts/reviews/book chapters/presentations (mix of derm/non-derm).
Letters: Two from basic science/clinical PIs (likely very strong), one from home derm, one from IM (or maybe 1 from upcoming away)
Extras: Two years at free student-run clinic, 1 of those years had a minor leadership role. Some tutoring.

I have two main worries:
1. Was involved in basic science research this year - projects take a while - thus I will have multiple things submitted but not yet accepted by the time I apply.
2. Although I feel like I have strong scores/grades/research/letters(?) I don't really have many extras.

I think your application is as strong as it can be

1) As long as you can talk intelligently and enthusiastically about the projects, that is the most important part. Having great letters from prominent PIs is also great. Having the publication is just the cherry on top.

2) Not sure what else you need. This isn't the same as applying for medical school where you need extracurricular activities. I would focus on being a strong interviewer and you should be in great shape. Good luck!

 

[Magneto1]

Anybody know if more reserved physician only spots get added to ERAS between now and September? So far there seems to be a lot less (2-3) on there than in previous years (around 10 or so) (based on NRMP match data).

 

[Abagnale]

I think your application is as strong as it can be

1) As long as you can talk intelligently and enthusiastically about the projects, that is the most important part. Having great letters from prominent PIs is also great. Having the publication is just the cherry on top.

2) Not sure what else you need. This isn't the same as applying for medical school where you need extracurricular activities. I would focus on being a strong interviewer and you should be in great shape. Good luck!

Thank you for the quick response. I loved my research and wanted to challenge myself, would definitely enjoy sharing what I learned this year during my interviews. Happy to hear that despite not having all of my papers fully completed my research will be viewed positively!

 

[Solodyn]

Anybody know if more reserved physician only spots get added to ERAS between now and September? So far there seems to be a lot less (2-3) on there than in previous years (around 10 or so) (based on NRMP match data).

I know personally there will be a new derm program that will be added to "R" match

 

[odyssey2]

In a bit of an urgent decision at the moment, any help is very much appreciated!

Top 40 MD school, between 3rd and 4th year, currently taking a year off for research:
Step 1: low 250s
Preclinical: True P/F school, all Ps
Clinical: 4 HPs and 4 Hs at a fairly grade-inflated school, this should put me at roughly the 50th percentile. HPs were in all the "important" rotations.
Research: 2 publications (1 first author), 3 abstracts, and 2 posters in non-derm fields
My question is, is derm really a viable option at this point, especially with my mediocre clinical grades? I'm taking a year off for research so now is the time to commit to derm if I can.

 

[bananasewq]

M3 at a top 50 MD state school in the Midwest without a home derm program. I would have to contact a different campus within the medical college in order to set up research. Didn't really consider derm at all until step 1 score came back.

Step 1: 250
Preclinical: all Passes in a Pass/Fail school
Clinical: Just started rotations
Research: 2 basic science from undergrad (4-5th author). 1 clinical paper from med school (2nd author). 3 basic science abstracts from undergrad. 2 clinical abstracts, both of which presented at a conference, both from med school. This equates to ~8 publications/abstracts/presentations. All in non-derm fields.

Questions I have
Without a home derm program, how can I go about finding research opportunities? How can I venture out/where can I start?
Will I need to take a research year? How many publications/abstracts/presentation thingys do I need to get by the end of M3 year in order to be competitive?
How much of a genuine interest in derm do most applicants have? Or are they really more in it for the lifestyle/somewhat decently interesting pathology?
If I dual apply to radiology and derm with derm pubs, will the more mid-upper tier radiology programs be like wtf this person doesn't actually want radiology?

Thanks everyone!

 

[asmallchild]

M3 at a top 50 MD state school in the Midwest without a home derm program. I would have to contact a different campus within the medical college in order to set up research. Didn't really consider derm at all until step 1 score came back.

Step 1: 250
Preclinical: all Passes in a Pass/Fail school
Clinical: Just started rotations
Research: 2 basic science from undergrad (4-5th author). 1 clinical paper from med school (2nd author). 3 basic science abstracts from undergrad. 2 clinical abstracts, both of which presented at a conference, both from med school. This equates to ~8 publications/abstracts/presentations. All in non-derm fields.

Questions I have
Without a home derm program, how can I go about finding research opportunities? How can I venture out/where can I start?
Will I need to take a research year? How many publications/abstracts/presentation thingys do I need to get by the end of M3 year in order to be competitive?
How much of a genuine interest in derm do most applicants have? Or are they really more in it for the lifestyle/somewhat decently interesting pathology?
If I dual apply to radiology and derm with derm pubs, will the more mid-upper tier radiology programs be like wtf this person doesn't actually want radiology?

Thanks everyone!

- You can ask around programs close to you and see if they have any research projects that you can do primarily via email. For serious research, you'll likely need to take a research year

- You don't need to take a research year. But for someone without a home program, it's your best way to make connections. There's no set # of publications. Obviously the higher the better. You can also have 0 publications but a great connection and that can be your gateway into derm.

- I'm biased as a dermatologist but I would say lots. There's just no other way to go through the often grueling application process. It's not the same as taking q2 call but there's also a lot of reading during derm residency. If you have a superficial interest in the material, it's going to be a miserable 3 years. And for what? There are other fields with lifestyles that can be just as good if not better (maybe not as residents but there's a ton of variety in lifestyle as an attending physican). I don't think it's worth jumping through all the hoops they make you jump through to be a dermatologist if the only carrot at the end of the journey is lifestyle. There are easier ways into other fields with just as good a lifestyle.

- Yes. You can try to spin it by saying you are no longer interested in dermatology but if most of your research / publications / LORs are geared towards dermatology, it will be hard to deny it. I don't know what the landscape is like for radiology but my advice would be to focus your energy and efforts on the field of your choice and not try to straddle the line between two fields. If it's derm, I think that will limit you to applying to mid or lower tier radiology programs. (I don't think a mid-upper tier radiology program would enjoy being told they are your backup choice for specialty, let alone program). If it's radiology, I've never heard of anyone using derm as a backup but that would be an interesting experiment 🙂

 

[asmallchild]

In a bit of an urgent decision at the moment, any help is very much appreciated!

Top 40 MD school, between 3rd and 4th year, currently taking a year off for research:
Step 1: low 250s
Preclinical: True P/F school, all Ps
Clinical: 4 HPs and 4 Hs at a fairly grade-inflated school, this should put me at roughly the 50th percentile. HPs were in all the "important" rotations.
Research: 2 publications (1 first author), 3 abstracts, and 2 posters in non-derm fields
My question is, is derm really a viable option at this point, especially with my mediocre clinical grades? I'm taking a year off for research so now is the time to commit to derm if I can.

Yes but you are taking a risk.

(FWIW, I matched into derm without a research year, from a worse school pedigree, with a similar Step 1 score, and worse clinical grades) So it can be done. The question is do you like derm enough to do the research year and still risk not matching?

For almost any other specialty you wouldn't have that stress. If you have a passion for any other field, it may be worth exploring that option. If it's only derm, I'd put your head down, be as productive as you can during the research year, make as many connections as you can during your research year, and take it from there.

 

[asmallchild]

What is the consensus opinion of programs requirement regarding step 2 CK?
If the answer is depending on step 1, what score on it would you say is when applicants should be comfortable not having step 2 on their applications?

It differs from program to program, I hear more programs are requesting a Step 2 CK by the time you apply. I would check and see if any of those programs are places where you'd like to match. If so, you'll need to take Step 2 CK.

For me, I would say 250+. The average score of a matched candidate this year was 249. If my Step 1 score is 250+, I am in good shape. If my Step 1 score is below 250, then I would buckle down, rock Step 2 CK, and hopefully have a better score to show.

 

[SCCBCCAK]

It differs from program to program, I hear more programs are requesting a Step 2 CK by the time you apply. I would check and see if any of those programs are places where you'd like to match. If so, you'll need to take Step 2 CK.

For me, I would say 250+. The average score of a matched candidate this year was 249. If my Step 1 score is 250+, I am in good shape. If my Step 1 score is below 250, then I would buckle down, rock Step 2 CK, and hopefully have a better score to show.

As usual, thanks for your words! I have read in other (recent) forums that even though programs say they require it, some people still get invited without them. Any thoughts on this?

 

[asmallchild]

As usual, thanks for your words! I have read in other (recent) forums that even though programs say they require it, some people still get invited without them. Any thoughts on this?

I'm sure that happens. If other parts of your application profile are good enough or if you have a connection, it wouldn't surprise me if a program overlooks the supposed Step 2 CK requirement.

 

[dermquestion]

Hi! I'm at the beginning of M3 right now and I was hoping to see if I have a chance at all for derm. I go to a top 40 school with a solid reputation.

I got a 240 on step 1 and have one poster from some non-derm research I did between M1 and M2. No publications yet, unfortunately.

Realistically, what can I do at this point to match derm? Aside from doing very well on rotations and Step 2. Clearly I need some publications as well. With my score, will I have to take a research year? Or do you think derm is out of reach entirely?

Thanks!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi! I'm at the beginning of M3 right now and I was hoping to see if I have a chance at all for derm. I go to a top 40 school with a solid reputation.

I got a 240 on step 1 and have one poster from some non-derm research I did between M1 and M2. No publications yet, unfortunately.

Realistically, what can I do at this point to match derm? Aside from doing very well on rotations and Step 2. Clearly I need some publications as well. With my score, will I have to take a research year? Or do you think derm is out of reach entirely?

Thanks!

Just as you mentioned, try and honor all your rotations, ace Step 2 CK, get involved with derm research, publish if possible, get to know your home department, start looking into potential away rotation sites and apply early for them.

I don't think you need to take a research year if you can manage all the above but taking a research year almost always helps.

Derm is not out of reach but you'll have to put in some work to distinguish yourself from the other applicants. Nothing disqualifies you currently but you'll want more to stand out. Good luck!

 

[srd12]

I am an IMG pursuing dermatology residency

Step 1: 256
Step 2: 260

Just got the results today.
Is this still possible ? Should I switch to IM?

I graduated at the top of my class with a 4.0 GPA, honors in all clinical rotations and was the valedictorian of my medical class.
I am currently pursuing an observership in the US to gain US LORs and hopefully a research year if possible to get some publications

Hello I am an IMG as well and preparing for USMLE now. Can you help me out? I am unable to send a message to you.

 

[srd12]

Hello
I am an IMG and completed my graduation from my home country.
I have started preparing for USMLE and looking to make connections with residents and other medical students who are pursuing or willing to pursue dermatology in future.

I have one research publication.
I was 1st topper of my class all the years. And have honours in 5 subjects out of 14 in my graduation with highest score in 7 subjects.

Can someone outline the steps for me? What should be my score for dermatology?
How to get LOR, observership or externship?
How to get matched into PGY1?
How to get research fellowship?

Waiting for your help guys

 

[ThrowAway14234234]

Current US 4th year. Late in the game switch.

Step 1:265
Step 2: Find out tomorrow
AOA:Yes
3rd year grades: 6H, 1HP
Solid extracurriculars
Not at top 40 school (no home program)
Have research in unrelated field (Presented at national conference, 2 first author items, 1 second author)

Biggest issue would obviously be LOR as I have not done an away rotation and research. There are two dermatologists in our department that would be able to write letters though I don't know the quality of them. And I would scramble for an away rotation during the month of October. If I were to actually do this, I would be submitting on ERAS without having any Derm LOR uploaded, which I don't know how that would look. I've heard that Derm programs don't download apps until November so I was wondering if this is something I could initially get away with / when would I absolutely need them by. For what its worth, my research mentor who I worked with for two years assured me that he wrote a very strong letter and I could potentially use that as a third letter.

I could quickly churn out a case report within the next week or two in Derm.

Just looking for some direction/ someone to call me crazy.

 

[asmallchild]

Current US 4th year. Late in the game switch.

Step 1:265
Step 2: Find out tomorrow
AOA:Yes
3rd year grades: 6H, 1HP
Solid extracurriculars
Not at top 40 school (no home program)
Have research in unrelated field (Presented at national conference, 2 first author items, 1 second author)

Biggest issue would obviously be LOR as I have not done an away rotation and research. There are two dermatologists in our department that would be able to write letters though I don't know the quality of them. And I would scramble for an away rotation during the month of October. If I were to actually do this, I would be submitting on ERAS without having any Derm LOR uploaded, which I don't know how that would look. I've heard that Derm programs don't download apps until November so I was wondering if this is something I could initially get away with / when would I absolutely need them by. For what its worth, my research mentor who I worked with for two years assured me that he wrote a very strong letter and I could potentially use that as a third letter.

I could quickly churn out a case report within the next week or two in Derm.

Just looking for some direction/ someone to call me crazy.

Your stats are good enough where you can give it a shot.

That being said, your first shot will always be your best shot so you have to decide if this is how you want to approach it.

The safer play would be to delay a year, do a research year, and then reapply after having done at least one or multiple away rotations to get meaningful LORs.

On the other hand, if that isn't an option, like I said, your stats are good enough. I would work as quickly as possible to get a derm rotation set up. Derm programs traditionally look at applications later in the cycle so that will give you time to get a LOR. Using your research mentor as a potential 3rd letter is a good backup plan but ideally, you would have 3 strong letters from dermatologists. Churning out some case reports wouldn't hurt either. Good luck!

 

[Dermap2018]

Current applicant

Step 1: 255
Step 2: 266
AOA: not accepted
Rank: 38/192
Grades: honors in IM, OB, Psych, peds
Research: 10 total publications in print, 2 more submitted, 2 are first author case reports, 1 first author systematic review, several coauthor reviews, 1 in JAAD, 10 posters/podium presentations
Extracuriculars: Good volunteering and an officer position
School: Average TX school
Doing 5 aways

 

[asmallchild]

Current applicant

Step 1: 255
Step 2: 266
AOA: not accepted
Rank: 38/192
Grades: honors in IM, OB, Psych, peds
Research: 10 total publications in print, 2 more submitted, 2 are first author case reports, 1 first author systematic review, several coauthor reviews, 1 in JAAD, 10 posters/podium presentations
Extracuriculars: Good volunteering and an officer position
School: Average TX school
Doing 5 aways

You are in good shape. Do you have a home program? Why so many aways? Seems like you are an excellent student clinically but beware of rotator fatigue.

I hated doing derm rotations myself as a student because it's an observational experience. One is OK. Two might be considered the norm now. Three if you lack a home program. It would be a very impressive student who could remain motivated and enthusiastic throughout 5 away rotations so you'll want to make sure you are on top of your game for all of them. If there's any hesitation, I'd scale back as the rest of your application seems strong enough.