Want To Do Better On The Pcat???

[drhemi70]

All,
A few months back I posted a question to some of the people on this board. It was titled, "what are some of you doing?". I have now come back after a couple of months and look at a few posts and see that the advice I had placed here is now gone, but is still needed. I will attempt to replace that advice now.

Here we go:
Why do some of you plan on taking the pcat 2 or 3 times? Do you like wasting money? There are plenty of materials out there for you to get an idea of what you need to do for preparing for this test. Harcourt even offers some practice tests. I know they may be a little out of date, and not have every type of question that will be on the test, but they will give you an idea of what will be there. Here's the kicker they cost 15 bucks to take and there are a ton of practice test in the back of those prep books, they will also give you an idea of what the real thing is like. So why are some of you people planning on dropping 300 bucks to figure out what the test is like?

Here is a second piece of advice for all of you who put off studying, figuring that you will be okay, because you are the star. Why not find out. Take a practice test under test conditions and see what you get. Did you do well? Then fine don't worry about studying. Suck it up on a few sections? Study those sections. Did terrible on the whole thing? Better get on the ball. Oh here is the other thing....do this about 2-3 months before the test. That way you will be able to have the time to study if you need it, and time to goof off and relax if you don't.
If english is a second language for you, you need to work harder. Not only do you have to know the material on the test but you need to understand all the weird crap about the english language that the rest of us native speakers take for granted. Examples you ask? Okay here(hear) is one---Their, there, they're. We all know they have slightly different meanings, but if you misread them in a passage it can change the entire meaning of the passage.
I followed this method and figured I needed to study for a few months for ~3-5 hours a week. This worked well and I recieved 92% for composite, on my first test.
Well I'm off to study for my pharmacy classes hope that you will be doing the same soon.
DR

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[blueclassring]

i don't think the practice test is a good gauge of the actual pcat. the pcat was much harder than the practice test because it is essentially an endurance race. the questions are not difficult but you have to think very quickly because of the time limit you have for each section. the hardest section for me was reading comprehension, not because the passages were difficult but because there were so many. i advise everyone to use kaplan's to study, and supplement it with sat biology guides if needed.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I don't know that there's any harm in taking the test more than once if someone needs to and can afford it.

I used a variety of study guides and found that none of them approximated the real PCAT very well. Even Harcourt's practice tests are different because they are computer-based.

In the real PCAT, time is a huge factor. Being able to answer the questions in the time allowed is very important - almost as important as content knowledge itself. I think it's very, very difficult to reproduce this environment outside of the exam. Also, let's not discount the effect of test anxiety.

Some people are going to do very well, no matter what.
Some people are never going to do well, no matter what.

For everyone else, it's not my place to criticize their plan of action, be that self-directed study, taking a prep course, being willing to retake, whatever.

I took the test in June, studying as much as I could fit into my schedule beforehand. I planned to retake if I did not get >90th percentile.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Any standardized test IS an endurance race, and getting yourself used to taking a test under as close to actual conditions as possible is important. I think that Harcourt should sell copies of old tests so people can study from them. The computer practice test they have is a waste because its so short and because they compute your percent score based on a straight scale, not the actual scale they use on the actual test.

However, I do think that the people that just want to take the test once cold to see what its like are wasting their money. Even if you get an acceptable score, wouldnt you want to put in a little work and do as well as you can? IMO doing well your first time will always look better than taking it a zillion times to get an acceptable score.

If you can get a 99% without studying, more power to you. But if you complain that you cant get above a 70%, but arent willing to put out any effort I dont want to hear it.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Any standardized test IS an endurance race, and getting yourself used to taking a test under as close to actual conditions as possible is important. I think that Harcourt should sell copies of old tests so people can study from them. The computer practice test they have is a waste because its so short and because they compute your percent score based on a straight scale, not the actual scale they use on the actual test.

However, I do think that the people that just want to take the test once cold to see what its like are wasting their money. Even if you get an acceptable score, wouldnt you want to put in a little work and do as well as you can? IMO doing well your first time will always look better than taking it a zillion times to get an acceptable score.

If you can get a 99% without studying, more power to you. But if you complain that you cant get above a 70%, but arent willing to put out any effort I dont want to hear it.

I'd be surprised if someone could get 99 without any study at all. I also don't think it's useful to take the test more than twice, three times MAX.

Not everyone is going to be able to be a pharmacist. We tell people that they can be whatever they want to be in life, but that's misleading.

When I was a child, I wanted to be an astronaut. However, I have such severe motion sickness that I have vomited in the IMAX and passed out on the swings at the fair. Therefore, it is impossible for me to become an astronaut. People have different strengths. I could not write a poem if you put a gun to my head. My little sister is terrible at math but writes wonderful poetry and short stories.

My point is, I don't agree with the OP that one should never take a test like the PCAT more than one time. Stuff happens - take it over if you need to. I'm not saying throw away money and take it a billion times. If someone is consistently scoring poorly, and it isn't an issue of inadequate study, they may want to consider whether they are really cut out for a science and math-intensive career.

 

[drhemi70]

All4mydaughter,
Where in my post does it say only take the test once? My point is that why do people plan(notice I say plan) on taking this test two or three times. I see posts on here all the time where people are saying they are signed up for the next two or three pcat exams. Why? Because they are planning on taking the test more than once, which means they plan on doing poorly on at least one. Why would you do this? Why not sign up for one exam and then put in the work to get the score you want? Why would you want to take a test just to see what is like? This is a waste of time and money in my mind. Test conditions are not difficult to replicate. The pcat info book tells you the exact time limits for each section and prep books tell you generally what is going to be on it. Now all you have to do is have the motivation to sit down for six hours and follow those test conditions.

This is one of the most important tests in you life of becoming and being a pharmacist. The others being the act/sat, Pcat, the naplex, and then the law exam for you state. I want others to understand that it is not a difficult exam if you prep.

Here are a couple more issues I have with test takers.
Do you have all the prereqs done for the test? Why would you expect to do well if you have only had gen chem and gen bio? There are questions on this test from orgo, ecology, calc, phys, and anatomy. If you haven't had these classes and you still want to take this test then you should plan on studing your buns off in those areas.
Last rant I promise. If you score a 7% overall on this exam what are you doing? Did you answer only 10 of the questions on a section? If you have this problem then you need to do some serious evaluation of your motivations. Don't come on this forum and ask for help, because you need to go back and review all the classes you have ever taken, especially if you are claiming a high GPA in those classes. I think you could probably mark all c's on the test and score higher than this.
If you think this test is difficult wait until you get to school. 19 credit hours are common with chapters being covered every day in class, and unlike undergrad you have to read the chapters because the lectures are general and the acctual questions come from the text. If you think the test is an endurance race what do you think 3 or 4 years of school are going to be like?

Basically it all breaks down to perspective and motivation. I want to be a pharmacist so that I can have a comfortable life and provide well for my family. Helping people is there also, but I can promise you that when I look at my son's face I know I need to do well so that he can have the oppertunities that I have.
DR

 

[All4MyDaughter]

All4mydaughter,
Basically it all breaks down to perspective and motivation. I want to be a pharmacist so that I can have a comfortable life and provide well for my family. Helping people is there also, but I can promise you that when I look at my son's face I know I need to do well so that he can have the oppertunities that I have.
DR

Your motivations sound very similar to mine, hence my SDN user name. How old is your son? My daughter is now 20 months.

 

[drhemi70]

bump

 

[TennisBoy78]

Pharmacy school is not comprised of taking standardized tests, because if it was, I would not be cut out for it. I promise to God that I have a 3.8 GPA in my classes, but taking standardized tests is very frustrating. Unlike classes that have a syllabus that designate which chapters are assigned, grading policies, etc., this stupid PCAT just tells you that you will be tested on general bio, chem, calculus, etc, but does not tell you what specifically to study nor do they disclose their grading policies thoroughly (what good is a percentile or raw score if no one knows how many they get right).

This test is the only hurdle in my venture into Pharmacy School. Because I don't do well on the PCAT, does this mean that I'm not cut out for pharmacy school? BOLOGNA. One, there are schools that don't even require this stupid test. Two, there are no standardized tests in pharmacy school until you take the NAPLEX. The difference between the NAPLEX and this PCAT is that the NAPLEX, although much more difficult than the PCAT, is applicable to pharmacy. For instance, ask any pharmacist how to do a limit problem or specific bio or chem twister problem on the PCAT, and they wouldn't remember how to do it. But nearly all of the questions on the NAPLEX are applicable to pharmacy, and it is a PASS/FAIL test rather than a let's guess what my score percentile should be test.

My PCAT score is not the greatest, but respectable. My point is that this PCAT test does nothing more than tell schools who can score great on standardized tests. When I got into college many years ago, there was a couple of people who got 1500's on their SATs but were lazy students otherwise. My high school applauded their efforts by putting their names in the paper, giving them trophies, etc. Well, when they got to college, they both dropped out. Either they were bored, or not committed. Were they smarter than me? YES. Were they better students (more motivated)? Probably not, because I graduated at the top of my class. Did doing well on the SAT translate to their success in college? NO

So my point is that someone should not blame their efforts if they cannot crack this exam. There are many schools that do not have a PCAT requirement, so these people can still become just as good of a pharmacist as anyone else.

 

[GRslp]

Nice post TB. Well said and absolutely correct IMO. I'm having the same difficulty as you. Let's hope we kick the PCAT's ass!

Pharmacy school is not comprised of taking standardized tests, because if it was, I would not be cut out for it. I promise to God that I have a 3.8 GPA in my classes, but taking standardized tests is very frustrating. Unlike classes that have a syllabus that designate which chapters are assigned, grading policies, etc., this stupid PCAT just tells you that you will be tested on general bio, chem, calculus, etc, but does not tell you what specifically to study nor do they disclose their grading policies thoroughly (what good is a percentile or raw score if no one knows how many they get right).

This test is the only hurdle in my venture into Pharmacy School. Because I don't do well on the PCAT, does this mean that I'm not cut out for pharmacy school? BOLOGNA. One, there are schools that don't even require this stupid test. Two, there are no standardized tests in pharmacy school until you take the NAPLEX. The difference between the NAPLEX and this PCAT is that the NAPLEX, although much more difficult than the PCAT, is applicable to pharmacy. For instance, ask any pharmacist how to do a limit problem or specific bio or chem twister problem on the PCAT, and they wouldn't remember how to do it. But nearly all of the questions on the NAPLEX are applicable to pharmacy, and it is a PASS/FAIL test rather than a let's guess what my score percentile should be test.

My PCAT score is not the greatest, but respectable. My point is that this PCAT test does nothing more than tell schools who can score great on standardized tests. When I got into college many years ago, there was a couple of people who got 1500's on their SATs but were lazy students otherwise. My high school applauded their efforts by putting their names in the paper, giving them trophies, etc. Well, when they got to college, they both dropped out. Either they were bored, or not committed. Were they smarter than me? YES. Were they better students (more motivated)? Probably not, because I graduated at the top of my class. Did doing well on the SAT translate to their success in college? NO

So my point is that someone should not blame their efforts if they cannot crack this exam. There are many schools that do not have a PCAT requirement, so these people can still become just as good of a pharmacist as anyone else.

 

[drhemi70]

Tennis,
You seem to misunderstand the purpose of this test. You state it is not like a class situation where you have a syllabus which tells you what will be covered. You also state the grading is unclear. Let me explain some things.
This is a test of your knowledge and your ability to quickly reason through some problems. It is not a test over a specific chapter. The grading is quite easy to understand. A 80% overall means that you performed better than 80% of test takers and scored worse than 20% of test takers. These percentages are based on first time test takers for a specific period of time. The nice (or terrible)thing is it doesn't matter how many you get right or wrong you are being compared to first time test takers and how many they got right and wrong. Therefore there is kind of a built in curve to the test. For example let's say harcourt puts some immpossible calc question that would take any normal person 5 min. to work through. You and I guess and get it wrong, and so does another 95% of the test takers. Guess what this means. 5% of people are going to get a plus one on the question while 95% will get a plus zero. This means on this question you are in the 95%tile. IF YOU GET THIS RIGHT YOU BUMP YOUR SCORE IN THAT SECTION A BUNCH, because you are better than 95% of the test takers.

Yes there are some schools that don't require the pcat. But here is the key to getting into pharmacy school now. Some do, and you need to have as many options available to you as possible because pharmacy school is competitive and only getting more so.

One other piece of info for you. This test IS NOT a test to see how good of a test taker you are. IT IS a test of your general knowledge in seven areas. If you have a good grasp on those areas you should do well, just because you have a 3.8 doesn't mean you retained all that info for the classes you took three years ago. It had been seven years since I had taken gen chem when I took the test. I had forgotten a ton of stuff, so to bone up for the test I retook gen chem at a community college to refresh my memory and scored in the 95% in chem.

A question for you, I saw that you posted something about retaking the test. How many practice tests did you take under real test conditions before taking the acctual PCAT? I found once I had done this I relaxed quite a bit about the real test. Saturation training helped me quite a bit I took two of the kaplan test in one day back to back so I had to concentrate for 12 hours straight. After that 6 hours was cake.

good luck with your apps and hope this helps.
DR

 

[TennisBoy78]

Tennis,
You seem to misunderstand the purpose of this test. You state it is not like a class situation where you have a syllabus which tells you what will be covered. You also state the grading is unclear. Let me explain some things.
This is a test of your knowledge and your ability to quickly reason through some problems. It is not a test over a specific chapter. The grading is quite easy to understand. A 80% overall means that you performed better than 80% of test takers and scored worse than 20% of test takers. These percentages are based on first time test takers for a specific period of time. The nice (or terrible)thing is it doesn't matter how many you get right or wrong you are being compared to first time test takers and how many they got right and wrong. Therefore there is kind of a built in curve to the test. For example let's say harcourt puts some immpossible calc question that would take any normal person 5 min. to work through. You and I guess and get it wrong, and so does another 95% of the test takers. Guess what this means. 5% of people are going to get a plus one on the question while 95% will get a plus zero. This means on this question you are in the 95%tile. IF YOU GET THIS RIGHT YOU BUMP YOUR SCORE IN THAT SECTION A BUNCH, because you are better than 95% of the test takers.

Yes there are some schools that don't require the pcat. But here is the key to getting into pharmacy school now. Some do, and you need to have as many options available to you as possible because pharmacy school is competitive and only getting more so.

One other piece of info for you. This test IS NOT a test to see how good of a test taker you are. IT IS a test of your general knowledge in seven areas. If you have a good grasp on those areas you should do well, just because you have a 3.8 doesn't mean you retained all that info for the classes you took three years ago. It had been seven years since I had taken gen chem when I took the test. I had forgotten a ton of stuff, so to bone up for the test I retook gen chem at a community college to refresh my memory and scored in the 95% in chem.

A question for you, I saw that you posted something about retaking the test. How many practice tests did you take under real test conditions before taking the acctual PCAT? I found once I had done this I relaxed quite a bit about the real test. Saturation training helped me quite a bit I took two of the kaplan test in one day back to back so I had to concentrate for 12 hours straight. After that 6 hours was cake.

good luck with your apps and hope this helps.
DR

I understand everything that you have stated, and I disagree with nothing. My take home message above was that the PCAT test is not a proper indicator of success in pharmacy school. Is it important to get the best score possible? Absolutely.

In answer to your question, I have studied my weak spots but there are inherent traps I come to that seem unavoidable regardless of how often I take the exam. The biggest one is that some calculation problems (in quantitative or chemistry) take too long to do, so even if I knew how to do it, it would hinder my ability to get others right.

 

[ForcedEntry]

Ok, so I am a new user, June PCAT taker whom recently discovered SDN. For the most part I have found this resource very helpful. Then I get to this thread...

Six weeks ago I was in OChem lecture while the professor explains stereochemistry, chiral carbons, 2S/3R, etc., and a fellow aspiring PharmD student a few rows down raises her hand, "Where do we find the atomic weight?" Hello! Are you freaking kidding me? Why didn't you take your PCAT the same day as I? Heck, to help solidify my place in the next batch of first year PharmD students I would have paid for you to take the test, invariably polluting the pool and making myself shine! Oh wait, my point...

1. Do they place impossible, or more appropriately, time consuming questions on the test. Of course. Not only is this test an intellectual barrage, it tests your time management skills and ability to handle stress. Who wants a pharmacists that cracks under pressure?

2. Mr. 4.0 walks in to take the test and blows it out his rear. Did he really learn anything in those classes he aced, or is he just a good test taker? A 2.5 GPA student will score higher everytime when compared to Mr. Cram-n-Scam.

3. I am so sick of hearing people whine, "...but I am not a good test taker..." and in the same breath claim a high GPA. Hello? If you couldn't take a test, you wouldn't have the GPA. This puts you in the Cram-n-Scam category.

4. The question of whether or not to take the test multiple times is more than "how bad do you want it?" You should not take this exam cold the first time. You should not plan on taking it more than once. You only have ONE chance to get the script right. ONE! Furthermore, let's say you did study your booty off and just have cranial flatulence; it happens. In this hypothetical situation you score a 69 composite. Is it good enough...most likely not. So you retake the test, and oops grandma died. This time you scored a 71. Guess what...you are locked into a low score. Colleges can see all of the scores even though they say they only consider the highest...right. So you take it a third time and you get an 86. Woohooo! But was it a fluke? I think you should take it just once more to show me your true ability.

5. Most importantly, as someone pointed out earlier, not everyone is cutout for every profession. Some just need a broad slap in the face to actually wake up. I hate to be so blunt, but my friends don't call me "House" for nothing. My little friend I spoke of in the beginning of this thread...a beautiful box of rocks. She is book smart, but can't mentally jump a dime. She has no clue and is going to continue her quest to be a pharmacist.

Me on the otherhand, I am Mr. Cram-n-Scam 4.0. Waiting for the scores is killing me. Did I actually learn something? Was the sleepless nights with Barron, Kaplan, and Hartcourt worth it? Two more weeks. Then it's beautiful babies all day.

If I get in, I will buy the first round.

Peace.

 

[janeno]

Let me sure my opinions

My arguments AGAINST Pcat are
1)I do believe that some people are bad test takers especially under timed conditions... I am not claiming that I am this way... For one person it might take a minute to answer this particular math question, for another just 5 seconds... Does this mean that the second person is smarter than the first one? NO... Does it mean the second one has better knowledge than the first one? NO! The only thing it means that the second can comprehend information in much shorter time than the first one... However, this does not necessarily mean that the first one will be worse pharmacist...Many times if you work in a hurry you make more mistakes (at least for some people). And if pharmacist makes a mistake, someone can die....

2) Some schools put a lot of emphasis on PCAT score... For example, I know one pharmacy school that puts more emphasis on PCAT than on your GPA? Do I think it is fair ? No... How can someone just base admission on one test instead of your cummulative grades throughout your college career... I have a very good GPA plus a hard major, and trust me I had to work hard to get it... So does this mean if my June PCAT score is not good, i am pretty much screwed of getting into a decent school? Yes...Well that is unfair just because of one test I will not be able to a good pharm school...

3) People who have English as a second language are at disadvantage. English is not my first language; however, I have been in the US for awhile. I have heard the argument that we have to study twice as hard as other students to get a good PCAT score... Well, that is unfair ... So while most test takers can solely devote their time to math, bio, and chem, i have to cram words for analogies...(By the way, I do understand that you need decent communication skills to be a pharmacist. i beleive my communciation are great; nobody ever had a problem understanding me)... So for this june test, I already know that i failed analogy section because no matter how much i study these words i still do not know whole dictionary and will not as extent vocabulary as a native speaker.... Thus, my score will not be as good as if English would have been my first language...

Now my arguments for PCAT:
1) Pharmacy schools do need to have some standardized test to compare applicants abilities... However, I think it should have a little bit more different content than PCAT... Plus, schools should be giving less consideration to this one test and more considerations to other parts of application... such as your GPA, the level of your classes, your major, your pharmacy experience, your involvement in a community, etc...

I do not believe that good scores on PCAT translate into being a good pharmacist... As mentioned above, most pharmacist do not even remember general bio or chem content...

 

[ForcedEntry]

So should the PCAT be offered in multiple languages to even the playing field even though the coursework and potential career will undoubtedly be conducted primarily in English, that is of course unless you are practicing pharmacy in say Miami or Southern California?

 

[janeno]

So should the PCAT be offered in multiple languages to even the playing field even though the coursework and potential career will undoubtedly be conducted primarily in English, that is of course unless you are practicing pharmacy in say Miami or Southern California?

No... I am not saying this... I think having English knowledge is necessary to be a good pharmacist... Having an essay and reading parts on the test is essential... You need to be able to read well in order to comprehend textbook information in pharmacy school and you should be able to write well because it measures your ability to form coherent sentences... However, I am reallty against Verbal ability part on the test... Can you please explain to me how skills needed for verbal ability (analogies and sentence completions) applies to pharmacy school or being a pharmacist?

 

[ForcedEntry]

No... I am not saying this... I think having English knowledge is necessary to be a good pharmacist... Having an essay and reading parts on the test is essential... You need to be able to read well in order to comprehend textbook information in pharmacy school and you should be able to write well because it measures your ability to form coherent sentences... However, I am reallty against Verbal ability part on the test... Can you please explain to me how skills needed for verbal ability (analogies and sentence completions) applies to pharmacy school or being a pharmacist?

Re-read your post...you answered your own question.

But just to clarify, graduate level coursework is not comprised of single syllable words. The analogy section, in part, tests your deductive powers based on word roots you should know. This test section is applicable to all sciences. If I use the prefixes "hepa" or "hemo" you should think liver and blood immediately. It may be hard to see the connection unless you consider roots from the verbal section. For instance, "con" or "func" are two simple roots used in hundreds if not thousands of words. Now throw them into "incongruity" or "perfunctory"...hmmm. We spend so much time learning the "new" language when we take on a science course, but lack in our basic spoken language. Sentence completion is another deductive test measure and goes hand in hand with reading comprehension. If you don't know how to use the language properly, how can you comprehend it correctly? Furthermore, writing well and writing effectively are two different things. You must be able to speak to your audience. In a retail position this may not be as critical, but in a research or hospital setting, you may need to eloquate yourself at a higher level. For this, I have a fervid opinion that verbal ability, as anquishing as it may be, is directly linked to professionalism regardless of your career choice.

 

[doublehh03]

the PCAT, like any other standardized test, tests your skills under pressure and see if you can apply your knowledge fast enough to solve problems.

if you dont think timed conditions, which i think is "pressure", is good, then you're not set for any "health" profession b/c sometiems you have to make decisions on the moment.

to the poster above, if a person answers a problem in 10 secs compared to one that takes 5 mins to answer, the person answers in 10s is obviously smarter and able to comprehend the problem and apply it faster.

again, this test is used to see if your GPA indicates your level. some schools are easy to get As (community colleges for instance) and thus even if you have a 4.0, u might not get a 90+ on the PCAT.

however, a guy w/ a 3.2 that goes to a "tough" school can get 90+ on the PCAT.

adcoms use the PCAT to also see this difference.

the PCAT i think is VERY similar to tests that ppl take in college (it's not a lot of critical thinking like the MCAT). therefore, for ppl to say under timed conditions and all that, suck it up and deal with it.

yes, doin well on the PCAT doesn't mean you're gonna be a great pharmacist, like doin well on teh MCAT doesn't mean you're gonna be a great doctor. but it ensures the pharmacy shcools that you're capable of handling the workload b/c these tests often predicts how well you do in pharm school.

 

[evilolive]

however, a guy w/ a 3.2 that goes to a "tough" school can get 90+ on the PCAT.

*chuckles* that's me.

 

[acetyl]

Then it's beautiful babies all day.

LOL


I have a decent GPA, better than average standardize tester, and scored 87. This was probably in line with what I should have gotten, given my grades. However, I studied for a solid 6 weeks, under timed conditions. Unless you are like "House" up there who was given a crazy IQ, then you have to study under timed conditions because you will inevitably run into questions on the real test that you don't know how to start, while time is tick tick ticking away. Practicing under these conditions makes it easier to deal with these situations.

It's also yet another weed out mechanism that older health professionals have deemed important. That is, the ability to think and answer quickly. So my advice is to do EVERYTHING that you can, see where you are, then reevaluate your situation.

 

[aboveliquidice]

In relation to the comments about answering a question in 5 min vs. 10 sec. Yeah - that is a no brainer. Nothing should take you 5 minutes on the PCAT. In fact, the PCAT punishes you for it. Each question in a section is weighted equally. You get +1 for answering a hard question correctly, likewise you get +1 for answering an easy question the same. The test actually punishes you for taking longer to answer any question - regardless if its difficult. The person who answered a question in 10 seconds probably read the question, eliminated half the answers immediately, and took an educated guess between the remaining. It was a good stratedgy, as he now has 4 min 50 sec to read the next question. The PCAT is a thinking man's test, if you get bogged down, your in trouble.

Skip or guess the hard ones, mark them quickly, and move on.

~above~

 

[TennisBoy78]

Originally Posted by janeno
No... I am not saying this... I think having English knowledge is necessary to be a good pharmacist... Having an essay and reading parts on the test is essential... You need to be able to read well in order to comprehend textbook information in pharmacy school and you should be able to write well because it measures your ability to form coherent sentences... However, I am reallty against Verbal ability part on the test... Can you please explain to me how skills needed for verbal ability (analogies and sentence completions) applies to pharmacy school or being a pharmacist?

Re-read your post...you answered your own question.

But just to clarify, graduate level coursework is not comprised of single syllable words. The analogy section, in part, tests your deductive powers based on word roots you should know. This test section is applicable to all sciences. If I use the prefixes "hepa" or "hemo" you should think liver and blood immediately. It may be hard to see the connection unless you consider roots from the verbal section. For instance, "con" or "func" are two simple roots used in hundreds if not thousands of words. Now throw them into "incongruity" or "perfunctory"...hmmm. We spend so much time learning the "new" language when we take on a science course, but lack in our basic spoken language. Sentence completion is another deductive test measure and goes hand in hand with reading comprehension. If you don't know how to use the language properly, how can you comprehend it correctly? Furthermore, writing well and writing effectively are two different things. You must be able to speak to your audience. In a retail position this may not be as critical, but in a research or hospital setting, you may need to eloquate yourself at a higher level. For this, I have a fervid opinion that verbal ability, as anquishing as it may be, is directly linked to professionalism regardless of your career choice.

Hate to get in the middle here, but I think that analogies have as much to do with pharmacy school as the most ridiculous calculus problems - DITEM SQUAT. Also, I hate to say something prejudicial, but as a natural born citizen of the USA, I think for the most part it is fair to say that more Americans born and raised here suffer in math more than they do in English. For us, the analogy portion is a piece of cake. However, the converse is true for foreigners.

Something else: I hate the PCAT in general, but I think that verbal sections put foreigners in check just as much as (tough) math related questions put naturally born Americans. If someone is to excel at the ENTIRE PCAT, then you know that person (1) is smart and (2) can creatively articulate the English language.

Note: Although these comments are very blunt, the fact of the matter is that deep down everyone knows these facts exist.

 

[drugdoc]

I second that.

 

[aboveliquidice]

I second that.

Turns out you have to be smart to matriculate at a pharmacy school... crazy

Too true - I know I am smarter than the average joe - but then I also attend a CC. Inevitably, you wonder whether or not you can hack it with the regular 4 yr students... I begin at UF in the Fall - so I guess I get to find out soon...

Best of luck to all who took the June PCAT - scores should be arriving sometime in the following week.

~above~

 

[ForcedEntry]

Turns out you have to be smart to matriculate at a pharmacy school... crazy

Too true - I know I am smarter than the average joe - but then I also attend a CC. Inevitably, you wonder whether or not you can hack it with the regular 4 yr students... I begin at UF in the Fall - so I guess I get to find out soon...

Best of luck to all who took the June PCAT - scores should be arriving sometime in the following week.

~above~

I abhore statements alluding to community college being "less". The class sizes at a CC are better and you have more access to the teachers. The information is still the same.

 

[evilolive]

I abhore statements alluding to community college being "less". The class sizes at a CC are better and you have more access to the teachers. The information is still the same.

However, you must admit that there is a certain distinction that CC classes cannot cross. On average community college courses are easier because the student quality is lower.

 

[twester]

However, you must admit that there is a certain distinction that CC classes cannot cross. On average community college courses are easier because the student quality is lower.

Your opinion. Everybody's got one.

All schools differ from each other in one or more areas. Some schools are better in some academic areas than others, some have more rigorous admittance standards than others. The only blanket statements that can be made is that community colleges confer associates degrees and teach lower division classes; 4-year colleges confer bachelors degrees but not graduate degrees and universities confer bachelors and graduate degrees.

 

[doublehh03]

Your opinion. Everybody's got one.

All schools differ from each other in one or more areas. Some schools are better in some academic areas than others, some have more rigorous admittance standards than others. The only blanket statements that can be made is that community colleges confer associates degrees and teach lower division classes; 4-year colleges confer bachelors degrees but not graduate degrees and universities confer bachelors and graduate degrees.

no the general consensus is that CC is easier. if u notice, MANY ppl who transfer to 4-yr colleges from CC have VERY high GPAs but they don't maintain it at the 4-yr colleges, like most ppl i know.

the quality of students is lower generally, but that doesn't mean there aren't smart people at CC goin b/c of financial reasons. but generally, that's why the "elite" schools don't care for CC, like UCSD and UCSF goin to now. they prefer u take most of the pre-reqs at a 4-yr college.

 

[PCATtaker]

no the general consensus is that CC is easier. if u notice, MANY ppl who transfer to 4-yr colleges from CC have VERY high GPAs but they don't maintain it at the 4-yr colleges, like most ppl i know.

the quality of students is lower generally, but that doesn't mean there aren't smart people at CC goin b/c of financial reasons. but generally, that's why the "elite" schools don't care for CC, like UCSD and UCSF goin to now. they prefer u take most of the pre-reqs at a 4-yr college.

QFT.

 

[acetyl]

I agree that CC are easier. At least in my state. The classes are smaller, but the work load is also easier. People tend to have higher grades but are they are also not as respected as people that take the harder science classses at the university.

 

[drugdoc]

What does QFC mean?

 

[TennisBoy78]

What does QFC mean?

He said "QFT" and I think it was a defensive response like "Quit F***ing Talking."

We are going off the subject with community colleges, but I have been to both, but to community colleges YEARS AFTER graduating with my 4 year degree (for financial reasons). Bottom line: Classes at community college or university could be just as easy or hard regardless of where you take them. It is dependent on the teacher really. True, I would agree that the average university student is more serious and is a better student generally, but the poor students at community college are simply there to test out the waters, and most of them eventually drop out anyway.

I got good grades at both the university and community college, but because of my situation (read above), I learned better study habits at the university. Furthermore, all of my friends at the community college have also matriculated from a 4 year program as well.

I'm not trying to say that community colleges are worthless because they do serve a purpose. University studies enrich the student body more (in my opinion) because there are a lot more academics to pursue and you feel like a community more (school pride).

Definitely as a admissions officer (if I was), I would give credence to the university student. Why? Anyone can go to community college, but in order to attend a nice university, you have to show that you've meet some set requirements. Honestly, the only way a community college student can stand out is if he/she gets all A's (one or two B's ok) but if identical records were placed before me, I would choose the university student anyday.

BTW, I know that my decision to attend community college for my science prereqs (I have a bachelors in economics) hinders my chances at more competitive schools, so the schools that I am applying to are less competitive. If you are a community college student, I would suggest that you specifically call each school you are interested in and ask them (in a heart to heart talk) if your community college classes hurt your chances. Period.

 

[dstormz]

As long as you can perform well on the PCAT, who cares!!!

From a person who graduated from a CC with a 3.45, and is now struggling to get my bio degree. sigh

 

[SCCpharm]

QFT means Quoted for Truth

 

[aboveliquidice]

I have to agree with tennisboy... I go to a CC - and I can tell you that my honors (president's list 6 semesters, Phi Theta Kappa, Honors program) are due to the rest of the student body. A big fish surrounded by little fish is impressive - a big fish surrounded by a whole lot of big fish is less so. I am transferring to UF this Fall to finish my prereqs (microbio and Org II). University students are simply more proven. I didn't compete to start my CC - but having competed to start UF - I think my prospects are looking better... Being a legit applicant goes a long way.

now how this relates to doing better on the PCAT... I have no clue

 

[ForcedEntry]

With all of this supposition University students should do better on the PCAT when compared to CC students. According to these opinions, if you want to better on the PCAT you need to go to a 4-year for the pre-reqs. However, I would contend that CC students have less "extracurricular" distractions allowing them more opportunity to focus. Whether they do or not is not directly attributable to the educational institution. Additionally, the median age for CC students is higher than University students. <sarcas-O-meter enabled> Mommy and daddy can't buy you experience

Anywho...warm fuzzies to all.

 

[skeksis]

To further spike the sarcas-O-meter, we all know that all science and math textbooks have a special community college edition printed, without all that useless Einstein theory stuff or all that hydrogen bonding or orbital theory junk, and whatever other stupid stuff those big university people learn, and the teachers are all learning the stuff at the same time the students do. If the local university people cannot hack it, they come to my community college to retake the class, at which point they generally try to get me to carry them through the simplified version. Nahhhh, say I, and they proceed to earn a low "C". On a serious note, I guess maybe it is based on the student body, as has been said, since there aren't as many hoops to jump through to attend. Garbage in, garbage out, right? It is not the text or the professors. Nevertheless, I think many university students should take some courses on how to quell haughtiness and myopia, because, contrary to popular belief, there is much to be learned in either setting, and the info is the same. By the way, there were graduating pharmacists this past spring - I bet some of them had their prerequisites at a cc.

 

[TennisBoy78]

To further spike the sarcas-O-meter, we all know that all science and math textbooks have a special community college edition printed, without all that useless Einstein theory stuff or all that hydrogen bonding or orbital theory junk, and whatever other stupid stuff those big university people learn, and the teachers are all learning the stuff at the same time the students do. If the local university people cannot hack it, they come to my community college to retake the class, at which point they generally try to get me to carry them through the simplified version. Nahhhh, say I, and they proceed to earn a low "C". On a serious note, I guess maybe it is based on the student body, as has been said, since there aren't as many hoops to jump through to attend. Garbage in, garbage out, right? It is not the text or the professors. Nevertheless, I think many university students should take some courses on how to quell haughtiness and myopia, because, contrary to popular belief, there is much to be learned in either setting, and the info is the same. By the way, there were graduating pharmacists this past spring - I bet some of them had their prerequisites at a cc.

I take classes at Northern VA CC, do I know you? What classes did you complete this spring?

Yeah, we get some students from Mason and the District that have difficulties passing their tougher classes. I don't know how I would do if I were to take some of these courses at the University but a lot is dependent on the professor, regardless if a class is at University or Community College. Thank god for RateMyProfessors.com - When I was doing undergraduate years ago, I did not know of this site, but I still did fine for the most part.

My argument is that because anyone can go to a CC and because in order to go to University you must have fulfilled a set number of requirements, a University student (if identical records) would be a better bet. This is not to say that CC is worthless, but the OVERALL student body at CC is less smart. How do you stand out if you go to CC - Get all A's like its going out of style - If you are doing average or below average, it is just too hard to get into Professional School.

 

[ForcedEntry]

My argument is that because anyone can go to a CC and because in order to go to University you must have fulfilled a set number of requirements, a University student (if identical records) would be a better bet. This is not to say that CC is worthless, but the OVERALL student body at CC is less smart. How do you stand out if you go to CC - Get all A's like its going out of style - If you are doing average or below average, it is just too hard to get into Professional School.

Please explain how a student paying 3-4 times less for the same general class is "less smart"

 

[skeksis]

I take classes at Northern VA CC, do I know you? What classes did you complete this spring?

Yeah, we get some students from Mason and the District that have difficulties passing their tougher classes. I don't know how I would do if I were to take some of these courses at the University but a lot is dependent on the professor, regardless if a class is at University or Community College. Thank god for RateMyProfessors.com - When I was doing undergraduate years ago, I did not know of this site, but I still did fine for the most part.

My argument is that because anyone can go to a CC and because in order to go to University you must have fulfilled a set number of requirements, a University student (if identical records) would be a better bet. This is not to say that CC is worthless, but the OVERALL student body at CC is less smart. How do you stand out if you go to CC - Get all A's like its going out of style - If you are doing average or below average, it is just too hard to get into Professional School.

I went to Central VA Community College. This spring, I took 19 credits: Gen. Chem II, Organic Chem II, Physics II, Biology II, and Statistics. While I got all A's (which is not something I'll ever brag about), it was all about time management - it was not easy. I also had roughly the same schedule for last fall, except with the replacement of Statistics with Survey of the New Testament. Yeah, it made me stand out a bit when I was in contention for pharmacy school. Nobody who interviewed me asked why I went to a cc (financial reasons - I was also accepted at the more expensive Lynchburg College where I could have earned a B.S. in Biomedical Science, but have never gone there). I am sure there are exceptional and awful professors at every school. I've had my share of each, but in the end I believe, at least for myself, that it is up to me to make my A. I think most students who are in the boat of just doing average or below, wherever they may be, probably don't have a serious drive to attend a professional school anyway (because they really should know what it takes to get into one), and they will be weeded out as such.