Wash U vs. Yale

[serra lune]

Hi All,
I just joined SDN, and I'm sorry to add yet another School X vs. School Y, but I am pretty much still undecided and would definitely appreciate all of your thoughts.

I grew up in Connecticut and went to school in northern California (where I have been living and working for the past 2 years post-graduation). Pretty much everyone is advising me to pick based on location, but there isn't a clear winner to me in this regard. Since I grew up near New Haven, I don't have any problems with it (as I know, for some people, this is a real negative) and obviously have a bunch of friends and family in the New Haven area and in New York. Comparatively, I also have a bunch of extended family in St. Louis, and I think that St. Louis might be a little nicer to live in for 8+ years (since it's a bigger city with more going on), but it's farther from other cities and friends. I can really see myself being happy in either place.

I am interested in microbiology and immunology, and it is my understanding that both schools are very strong in immunology with Wash U stronger in microbiology. Since I am not set, though, on a particular area of research, I'd like to go to a school that is strong in multiple areas. I like how the MSTP at Wash U is organized, but I also like the flexibility at Yale. I've had nothing but positive experiences at both places during my visits.

Any thoughts? Other factors to consider?
Many thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[jjmack]

If I were you I'd go with Wash U. If you has any questions about St.Louis PM me. I was an undergrad there.

 

[stillsmilin]

im in a quite similar situation and also struggling, PM me if you want.

since all other factors are equal except for the location and structure of the program, you really have to fit your own personality into the picture. would you thrive in a more hands-off or structured program? five years from now, which would suit you better, and for comparison, 12 years from now, which would suit you better for residency? it is very hard, especially when you are dealing with two choices w/strong pros (and perhaps cons) on each side. the best thing is to know that if you applied to mstp, you are motivated and you will do well, it just depends on what type of enviro would motivate you the most and keep you in the program. and the good news is that you dont really have to permanently decide bc this is such a long track that youll always have residency/postdoc for the other place. the answer will just be what's best for you now . . . tough, tough, i know! i cant decide either.

[

 

[Sparky Man]

I would go to WashU. I think the program offers better clinical training and research opportunities. When I visited Yale, I actually found some of the students quite immature, which made me wonder about their curriculum (and how it is supposed to be geared for mature students). But, I am basing this on just a few students I met on interview day. St. Louis doesn't seem to be a wonderful place to live, but I'm sure it's fine. Anyway, I'm heading to WashU. I was waitlisted at Yale, but I promise my opinion is not simply sour grapes!

Sparky

 

[Mr. Tee]

Any other thoughts between these two? I'm thinking about doing cell/mol. biology but my interest in microbiology grows everyday.

 

[hawkeey]

Overall, I think that WashU has a much better program and offers a lot more clinical opportunities. Yale has been declining in recent years and is in the process of trying to pick itself back up.

It's not that far away from Chicago (a short flight / a six hour drive or train ride) either. You can get to Urbana-Champaign which is pretty cool place to hang out occasionally, especially if you have any friends who go to school there.

The only thing that Yale really has going with it is some Ivy League reputation, but that isn't much in itself.

 

[Auscultate]

Overall, I think that WashU has a much better program and offers a lot more clinical opportunities. Yale has been declining in recent years and is in the process of trying to pick itself back up.

The only thing that Yale really has going with it is some Ivy League reputation, but that isn't much in itself.

This is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE...
Yale's MSTP is very highly regarded in the academic medicine community, I would venture to say probably even a little higher than WashU.
To the OP if I were you, I would go with Yale. The fact is coming out of both MSTP programs, you will be well-trained and in a position to get into almost any residency program you want to go to. Yale has one of the very top programs in Immunology, as well as very strong programs in most other areas - you won't have a problem finding a good PI to work with. The Yale system is great (although not for everyone) and I found students at Yale to be some of the most interesting and smart and yet very laid-back. 8 years is a long time and if you have family in Connecticut and new York and are not that sure about being in St. Louis, I would factor that into consideration.
Are you planning on going to the second looks at both places?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Yale's immunology department is one of the best in the country (on par with Harvard's and Stanford's), so I would not dismiss it on research grounds. I've also heard that Yale neurobiology is very strong. On the other hand, I'm not sure about other departments and how they compare to WashU's.

 

[Shatterstar17]

I also have to agree with the dissenters. Even in spite of all of the ways I felt the med school didn't fit with me, and the ways I felt Penn's MSTP was better for me, Yale was always my dark horse because of the superiority of the basic cell biology research that is performed there. It's just world-class and was quite alluring.

 

[vector07]

WashU's microbiology and immunology programs are amazing. I haven't been to Yale, so I can't really speak for it.. but here are some rankings based on impact factor that I found. WashU tops Yale in both categories according to these--in fact, Yale doesn't rank in any of the microbiology rankings.

(however, how much does impact factor really matter? you can't really go wrong here)

These are the most recent references I could find based on citations/IF:
1994-2004 - Microbiology
1998-2003 - Microbiology

'98-'03 Immunology

to throw something more recent in (take it with a grain of salt):
US News - Microbiology
(neither ranked in the top 3 for immunology on US News)

As for administration... again, I can't speak for Yale because I've never been. However, I can't really imagine an MSTP administration that tops Brian & Andrew. They rock.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

WashU's microbiology and immunology programs are amazing. I haven't been to Yale, so I can't really speak for it.. but here are some rankings based on impact factor that I found. WashU tops Yale in both categories according to these--in fact, Yale doesn't rank in any of the microbiology rankings.

(however, how much does impact factor really matter? you can't really go wrong here)

These are the most recent references I could find based on citations/IF:
1994-2004 - Microbiology
1998-2003 - Microbiology

'98-'03 Immunology

to throw something more recent in (take it with a grain of salt):
US News - Microbiology
(neither ranked in the top 3 for immunology on US News)

As for administration... again, I can't speak for Yale because I've never been. However, I can't really imagine an MSTP administration that tops Brian & Andrew. They rock.

Also adding to this response: see grants.nih.gov for funding rankings of medical school departments.

WashU: #13, ~$13.5 million
Yale: #24, ~$12 million

Also, I have no time to go through this, but check the editorial boards of JI & Nature Immunology, and keynote speakers and session leaders at AAI.

 

[QofQuimica]

This decision is purely personal preference. The idea that you wouldn't get as good of an education or have as many opportunities at either of these schools is ludicrous. Tee, go to the second looks if you can and don't sweat about it too much. There is no bad choice here.

 

[SeventhSon]

when I interviewed at yale, I got the same gist that a lot of people are saying... the cell/mol bio were world class, but other areas didn't seem as well developed (particularly, bioinformatics, bioengineering).