Wayne State University part 01

[AStudent]

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I haven't heard anything concrete, just a bunch of rumors. I'm a 4th year at Wayne, so it won't affect my clinical rotations, but if I choose to do residency at the DMC, it may directly impact me. From what I understand, if no agreement is reached by March 15, then the two groups will go their separate ways. Also, the DMC will lose ACGME accredidation, so all of it's residency programs will have to be cancelled, and the residents will be sent to other programs. The DMC has already lost it's ortho residency, and from what I hear, will lose Level 1 trauma status for DRH as a result. When I was at Henry Ford for a rotation, some of the doctors over there said that they were hearing talk about how the higher administrators at Henry Ford would love to be the primary affiliation of WSU, should the partnership between WSU and the DMC end. It would mean more money in research grants for the hospital, which would attract better faculty, and the status of HFH would change from a community hospital to a University Hospital. Again, this is all hear-say. Overall, I would say that WSU could survive without the DMC because so many other hospitals are willing to take more WSU students (and don't forget, the VA and Karmanos aren't techinically part of the DMC, so those hospitals are still fair game for rotations), but the DMC will be finished if it loses WSU affiliation. I think that Children's Hospital and Huron Valley would be able to break off and become profitable free-standing institutions, but I'm not sure about the rest.

It's just a bunch of posturing by both parties. WSU needs a place to send 300 students per year and DMC needs the cheap labor, research money, and accreditation that being a university hospital brings. There will almost surely be some sort of agreement reached rather soon....there are just hold outs to see which side can still retain its pride (although I think that DMC has FAR more to lose than WSU).

 

[oldjeeps]

DMC needs the cheap labor,

Which is all that we as med students are. Although the argument could be made that we actually slow things down as the Attendings are teaching us; but who else would do all the scut work that med students usually end up doing?

there are just hold outs to see which side can still retain its pride (although I think that DMC has FAR more to lose than WSU).

And the sooner those hospital administrators remember this, the better it will be.

 

[deowolf04]

And the sooner those hospital administrators remember this, the better it will be.

Wait, I'm confused. You're actually EXPECTING an administration that has an impact on us to realize something important?!?

 

[kyle_fater]

Which is all that we as med students are. Although the argument could be made that we actually slow things down as the Attendings are teaching us; but who else would do all the scut work that med students usually end up doing?



And the sooner those hospital administrators remember this, the better it will be.

From doing my rotations at Sinai Grace and Harper, the Attendings dont complain about the students slowing them down at all. In fact I've seen med students speak up and correct residents or even when a question was posted during a pathology review meeting, no resident would speak up and talk, but a 3rd year Med student knocked everyone's socks of with the answer she gave- which was totally correct. So you guys provide more knowledge and help than you think and are never slowing things down.

As was posted above the DMC has a LOT to lose here. And they know that HF sits right around the corner licking its lips at this opportunity to jump on their mistake of letting this go. I do think this is just a hold out and will be resolved. And if this affiliation is ended dont be suprised if you see Beaumont jump at the chance to offer affiliation. The money that WSU brings to the table for research and reputation is astronomical! People may say Beaumont doesn't have enough hospitals to rotate through, but with the money that would be generated from reasearch and the liking another institution could be built. However I think its safe to say HF would be the front runner.

Also what is the latest word on the affiliation between Karmano's and the DMC? Wasn't there talk of separation there too?

Bottom line is we do provide cheap labor for these places and a lot of money in research. I think worst case senario, if this does fall through with DMC, we could see multiple hospitals the Detroit area (Oakwood Heath System, Beaumont, HF, etc.) all come together and provide help...nobody wants to see the WSU medical school have problems because they produce some of the best, if not THE BEST, doctors in the state of Michigan.

 

[AStudent]

From doing my rotations at Sinai Grace and Harper, the Attendings dont complain about the students slowing them down at all. In fact I've seen med students speak up and correct residents or even when a question was posted during a pathology review meeting, no resident would speak up and talk, but a 3rd year Med student knocked everyone's socks of with the answer she gave- which was totally correct. So you guys provide more knowledge and help than you think and are never slowing things down.

As was posted above the DMC has a LOT to lose here. And they know that HF sits right around the corner licking its lips at this opportunity to jump on their mistake of letting this go. I do think this is just a hold out and will be resolved. And if this affiliation is ended dont be suprised if you see Beaumont jump at the chance to offer affiliation. The money that WSU brings to the table for research and reputation is astronomical! People may say Beaumont doesn't have enough hospitals to rotate through, but with the money that would be generated from reasearch and the liking another institution could be built. However I think its safe to say HF would be the front runner.

Also what is the latest word on the affiliation between Karmano's and the DMC? Wasn't there talk of separation there too?

Bottom line is we do provide cheap labor for these places and a lot of money in research. I think worst case senario, if this does fall through with DMC, we could see multiple hospitals the Detroit area (Oakwood Heath System, Beaumont, HF, etc.) all come together and provide help...nobody wants to see the WSU medical school have problems because they produce some of the best, if not THE BEST, doctors in the state of Michigan.

WSU does produce the most competent physicians in the state, that's why I chose to come here. Although I can't say that I'm married to the DMC. I have been over to Beaumont and Henry Ford and i was very impressed with their facilities. I wouldn't mind doing a rotation or two up at HF or Beaumont, might help my residency match to get in there.

 

[fun8stuff]

so... kind of off topic... but i was wondering if somebody could comment on their summer clinical externship experience. i know there were a couple m2's that participated in them. i am trying to decide between research and the doing an externship. i think i would enjoy both. what do you guys think?

 

[mendel121]

WSU does produce the most competent physicians in the state, that's why I chose to come here. Although I can't say that I'm married to the DMC. I have been over to Beaumont and Henry Ford and i was very impressed with their facilities. I wouldn't mind doing a rotation or two up at HF or Beaumont, might help my residency match to get in there.

Ya know, I'm not sure if the clinical abilities of Wayne grads comes from working at the DMC or just from the general attitude that Wayne students tend to have that makes us get in there and be active. I have limited exprerience with UM med students, and UM students tend to be - well, prissy (oldjeeps - my statement about whiny med students applies about 10^6 times more at UM in my experience 🙂 ) - and Wayne students are more down to earth IMO

 

[ddmo]

so... kind of off topic... but i was wondering if somebody could comment on their summer clinical externship experience. i know there were a couple m2's that participated in them. i am trying to decide between research and the doing an externship. i think i would enjoy both. what do you guys think?

Apply to the Henry Ford program. It's pretty selective (~1/4 get accepted), but it's the best. You get paid about $2100 for 6 wks, as much clinical experience and research as you want. I did the surgery path and it was sweet because I've essentially already done a 6 week surgery rotation. For the first 3 weeks there are no other med students on the services, so I got to scrub in on any cases I wanted and was first assistant in at least a couple surgeries. Opened, closed, amputated, you name it I was in there doing it. I also did some neurosurgery research on top of that, which was cool.

 

[ddmo]

It would be sweet if WSU switched affiliations and joined HF.

 

[.edu-MD]

Also what is the latest word on the affiliation between Karmano's and the DMC? Wasn't there talk of separation there too?

I think the talking happened quite a while ago. They're already separate as of a couple of months ago.

 

[kyle_fater]

Ya know, I'm not sure if the clinical abilities of Wayne grads comes from working at the DMC or just from the general attitude that Wayne students tend to have that makes us get in there and be active. I have limited exprerience with UM med students, and UM students tend to be - well, prissy (oldjeeps - my statement about whiny med students applies about 10^6 times more at UM in my experience 🙂 ) - and Wayne students are more down to earth IMO

Unfortunately I'd have to say that the DMC is most likely what produces such great doctors from WSU. Not to take anything away from the students, but the rare and complex cases that present at the DMC are what make all of us good at what we do. The exposure to these cases/specimens is priceless. Unfortunately if the DMC starts losing its afilliations with places such at Karmano's, WSU, etc. they are going to lose their doctors as well. I know one doctor already left a few years ago - he was the only surgeon to do the mesothelioma cases and now he's gone.

With that said, I think that even if WSU "moved" to HF or Beaumont we would be fine! The cases might not be as rare as those presenting at the DMC, but we'd be learning from some of the BEST doctors around!

 

[kyle_fater]

Hey on a off note, does anyone know of a good vascular surgeon at either U of M or Beaumont? A family member of mine has 80% occlusion of the left carotid and needs someone good. Any suggestions?

 

[mendel121]

Unfortunately I'd have to say that the DMC is most likely what produces such great doctors from WSU. Not to take anything away from the students, but the rare and complex cases that present at the DMC are what make all of us good at what we do. The exposure to these cases/specimens is priceless. Unfortunately if the DMC starts losing its afilliations with places such at Karmano's, WSU, etc. they are going to lose their doctors as well. I know one doctor already left a few years ago - he was the only surgeon to do the mesothelioma cases and now he's gone.

With that said, I think that even if WSU "moved" to HF or Beaumont we would be fine! The cases might not be as rare as those presenting at the DMC, but we'd be learning from some of the BEST doctors around!

That may be, but I really think that the abilities that Wayne grads have after med school has more to do with actually doing things as an MS3/MS4 rather than hanging out it the corner and watching. IMO it's probably not the complex and rare cases that make you a good (relative to other interns) doctor out of med school, but the ability to deal with the common cases that everyone sees everyday. It would be neat to see the rare stuff, but it's just that - rare

 

[kyle_fater]

That may be, but I really think that the abilities that Wayne grads have after med school has more to do with actually doing things as an MS3/MS4 rather than hanging out it the corner and watching. IMO it's probably not the complex and rare cases that make you a good (relative to other interns) doctor out of med school, but the ability to deal with the common cases that everyone sees everyday. It would be neat to see the rare stuff, but it's just that - rare

You are right. I think my post was a little foggy as to what I really meant - sorry about that. What I was trying to say is that I think the DMC is crucial to WSU's production of GREAT doctors because 1) as you said they do become competent in the handling of simple/ common cases (and as you said, this is the key to practicing medicine right here!) 2) These rare cases that do arise give the students that additional edge over the other future doctors who are holding up the walls at places like U of M.

Hands down I think WSU is arguably the BEST med school in Michigan...its just too bad we can't move it to somewhere warm and sunny haha. And unfortunately I dont think I have the grades to get in at WSU so for me it will most likely be the DO route - which I dont think is a bad thing.

 

[oldjeeps]

And unfortunately I dont think I have the grades to get in at WSU so for me it will most likely be the DO route - which I dont think is a bad thing.

Once upon a time that might have been true. If you look at any DO school you'll find that their admissions process is just as competitive, if not more so than many MD schools.

Any advisor that tries to tell you otherwise is full of it.

 

[fun8stuff]

Once upon a time that might have been true. If you look at any DO school you'll find that their admissions process is just as competitive, if not more so than many MD schools.

Any advisor that tries to tell you otherwise is full of it.

i will have to respectively disagree.... only because 3 or 4 people i went to undergrad with got into a few different osteopathic schools with mcats 20-24 and GPAs of 2.9-3.3. They weren't even waitlisted, but were accepted right away. After a couple of them told me this, I became interested and did some research. Between them, they had like 3 allopathic interviews,1 waitlist, and ?0-1? acceptances. With this said, they all had excellent clinical & volunteer experience.

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/t...y_to_School/Research/PM_admiss_osteopath.html
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-med/brief/glanc_04145_brief.php
http://www.eckerd.edu/academics/nas/premed/MCAT_GPA_List.htm
http://www.cnsm.csulb.edu/depts/sas/files/cc_counselor_workshop2005.pdf
http://www.kcom.edu/faculty/chamberlain/ranmcat.htm


I have nothing against DOs and I believe it is an excellent option. I'm not sure I would view it as an absolutely easier route, as they tend to look for other characteristics in their applicants.... things like compassion, determination, empathy, certain communication skills and other factors that they deem more important than test-taking ability (And cannot be measured by). They do the same work as a MD so their really is no difference in the long run.... except that they may employ an extra tool to help patients... OMM (however, i have heard only like 20% use this skill).

edit: i stated "3 or 4" because i am not sure if the one person the waitlist was offerred a position at the MD school she was waitlisted at. I have not heard from her sine graduation....

 

[kyle_fater]

i will have to respectively disagree.... only because 3 or 4 people i went to undergrad with got into a few different osteopathic schools with mcats 20-24 and GPAs of 2.9-3.3. They weren't even waitlisted, but were accepted right away. After a couple of them told me this, I became interested and did some research. Between them, they had like 3 allopathic interviews,1 waitlist, and 0 acceptances. With this said, they all had excellent clinical & volunteer experience.

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/t...y_to_School/Research/PM_admiss_osteopath.html
http://www.eckerd.edu/academics/nas/premed/MCAT_GPA_List.htm
http://www.cnsm.csulb.edu/depts/sas/files/cc_counselor_workshop2005.pdf

I have nothing against DOs and I believe it is an excellent option. I'm not sure I would view it as an absolutely easier route, as they tend to look for other characteristics in their applicants.... things like compassion, determination, empathy, certain communication skills and other factors that they deem more important than test-taking ability (And cannot be measured by). They do the same work as a MD so their really is no difference in the long run.... except that they may employ an extra tool to help patients... OMM (however, i have heard only like 20% use this skill).

You're extremely right with all you just posted. One MAJOR difference is the configuration of the GPA too. MD programs look at ALL your grades to configure a overall and science GPA. DO programs take only the BEST grade from these classes and use that to build your GPAs. They do require that you list whether or not you retook a class or not and if so how many times, but they do give you this option. Hence my use of the word "easier".

 

[AStudent]

You're extremely right with all you just posted. One MAJOR difference is the configuration of the GPA too. MD programs look at ALL your grades to configure a overall and science GPA. DO programs take only the BEST grade from these classes and use that to build your GPAs. They do require that you list whether or not you retook a class or not and if so how many times, but they do give you this option. Hence my use of the word "easier".

What DO schools lack in "GPA" they make up for elsewhere. At MSUCOM you are required to have X hours of community service to even get an interview. For a student 20-30 getting into a DO school right out of undergrad will probably be harder than a comparably ranked MD school because you're competing with a large number of non traditional applicants and people who may have spent spring break in China learning acupuncture from a Zen master, not something the typical undergrad prepares for. There is alot more that goes into a DOs application than a MDs because you really have to have an understanding of osteopathic medicine and you must demonstrate (through past ECs) that you want to pursue holistic medicine in addition to whatever grades and test scores you have.

 

[ddmo]

Hey on a off note, does anyone know of a good vascular surgeon at either U of M or Beaumont? A family member of mine has 80% occlusion of the left carotid and needs someone good. Any suggestions?

I recommend Dr. Alexander Shepard at HF. He was trained at Hopkins and is on just about all the Top Docs type lists. He is meticulous to the max. I was in on a femoral endardectomy with him and he doesn't cut any corners and has a real attention to detail. If I needed vascular surgery he would be my man.

http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=38441&action=detail&ref=1336
http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=46335&action=detail&ref=85

Appointments: 313-916-3033

 

[kyle_fater]

What DO schools lack in "GPA" they make up for elsewhere. At MSUCOM you are required to have X hours of community service to even get an interview. For a student 20-30 getting into a DO school right out of undergrad will probably be harder than a comparably ranked MD school because you're competing with a large number of non traditional applicants and people who may have spent spring break in China learning acupuncture from a Zen master, not something the typical undergrad prepares for. There is alot more that goes into a DOs application than a MDs because you really have to have an understanding of osteopathic medicine and you must demonstrate (through past ECs) that you want to pursue holistic medicine in addition to whatever grades and test scores you have.

Hey I know what you mean by needing other areas to make up for the GPA. Remember I'm going to have a year of experience as a Pathologist Assistant and I'm sure I'll do some community service activities out there as well. Plus student organizations. I'm not ruling out the MD programs yet, because I've got a 3.03 right now but that doesn't include last semester's grade and I've still go this semester and spring/summer. So I might be alright with a good MCAT. Speaking of, do you mind me asking how you scored on yours? I know you did a lot of stuff at U of M with research and publications too. Maybe you could tell me how I could find those to read over them. I'd be interested in seeing what you did.

 

[AStudent]

Hey I know what you mean by needing other areas to make up for the GPA. Remember I'm going to have a year of experience as a Pathologist Assistant and I'm sure I'll do some community service activities out there as well. Plus student organizations. I'm not ruling out the MD programs yet, because I've got a 3.03 right now but that doesn't include last semester's grade and I've still go this semester and spring/summer. So I might be alright with a good MCAT. Speaking of, do you mind me asking how you scored on yours? I know you did a lot of stuff at U of M with research and publications too. Maybe you could tell me how I could find those to read over them. I'd be interested in seeing what you did.

IM me Fater.

ABone734

BTW, I never published. Because I was only in A2 for 8 weeks per summer I never really got a chance to get anything moving (an IRB request can take up to a year to get through). I was more of a technican working with the multimillion dollar instruments. But I got a chance to be friendly with alot of the higher ups which got me solid LORs for when I did apply.

 

[oldjeeps]

Only because it has been awhile since I have been accused of being a royal a$$...

Does anyone else see a bit of an inconsistency in these couple of posts?

Unfortunately I'd have to say that the DMC is most likely what produces such great doctors from WSU. Not to take anything away from the students, but the rare and complex cases that present at the DMC are what make all of us good at what we do.

Hey on a off note, does anyone know of a good vascular surgeon at either U of M or Beaumont? A family member of mine has 80% occlusion of the left carotid and needs someone good. Any suggestions?

Where's the request for a referal to a DMC surgeon???

 

[oldjeeps]

i will have to respectively disagree.... only because 3 or 4 people i went to undergrad with got into a few different osteopathic schools with mcats 20-24 and GPAs of 2.9-3.3. They weren't even waitlisted, but were accepted right away. After a couple of them told me this, I became interested and did some research. Between them, they had like 3 allopathic interviews,1 waitlist, and ?0-1? acceptances. With this said, they all had excellent clinical & volunteer experience.

http://www.kaptest.com/repository/t...y_to_School/Research/PM_admiss_osteopath.html
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-med/brief/glanc_04145_brief.php
http://www.eckerd.edu/academics/nas/premed/MCAT_GPA_List.htm
http://www.cnsm.csulb.edu/depts/sas/files/cc_counselor_workshop2005.pdf
http://www.kcom.edu/faculty/chamberlain/ranmcat.htm


I have nothing against DOs and I believe it is an excellent option. I'm not sure I would view it as an absolutely easier route, as they tend to look for other characteristics in their applicants.... things like compassion, determination, empathy, certain communication skills and other factors that they deem more important than test-taking ability (And cannot be measured by). They do the same work as a MD so their really is no difference in the long run.... except that they may employ an extra tool to help patients... OMM (however, i have heard only like 20% use this skill).

edit: i stated "3 or 4" because i am not sure if the one person the waitlist was offerred a position at the MD school she was waitlisted at. I have not heard from her sine graduation....

I certainly can’t argue with those sources. Only question I have is how current are those statistics?
If they are current then all if have to say is; WTF, where was all that love from the DO admission offices while I was working the application circuit? Comparing my numbers to the ones mentioned in those links I should have at least been rolling in the interview invitations, if not in acceptances.

 

[Flobber]

Any other M2's getting really sick of listening to Sillix insult us and talk about smoking diabetics needing to "put a gun to their head" as she gasps for air and delivers her lectures sitting because she's morbidly obese??

 

[kyle_fater]

Only because it has been awhile since I have been accused of being a royal a$$...

Does anyone else see a bit of an inconsistency in these couple of posts?





Where's the request for a referal to a DMC surgeon???

Hey buddy stuff it! I asked for a referal to a Beaumont or U of M doctor because thats what HE, my grandpa, wants! HE feels more at ease going there because HE thinks thats where he'll get the best treatment. So ask before you go off assuming again.

And just because its Beamount or U of M doesn't mean that WSU grads aren't working there! Seeking a referal for another hospital is not a bash on the WSU program. Personally I could care less about the DMC. As long as WSU is getting quality instructors and producing good doctors thats all that matters. So like I said stuff it and stop trying to make something of nothing.

 

[kyle_fater]

I certainly can’t argue with those sources. Only question I have is how current are those statistics?
If they are current then all if have to say is; WTF, where was all that love from the DO admission offices while I was working the application circuit? Comparing my numbers to the ones mentioned in those links I should have at least been rolling in the interview invitations, if not in acceptances.

You probablly didn't get any interviews because they dont care for accepting arroagant jerks!

 

[ddmo]

Would the two of you cut it out with this petty bickering.

 

[Shangal]

ddmo, mind your own business. I mean you bother me when you talk about your surgery experience, and when everyone on this forum keeps on making a big deal out of these negotiations we are having with the DMC that pissing me off but do you see me saying anything, let people be. I am kind of liking Kyle too, I just don't see why he joined this forum though, its just a bunch of second years whining about med school but I guess its always fun to know someone who is in love with your professors daughter

Man, I am in an agressive mood. This kidney business is killing me, but it's always fun to know how exactly how we'll die when we get acute renal failure in the next couple decades

 

[katrinadams9]

Any other M2's getting really sick of listening to Sillix insult us and talk about smoking diabetics needing to "put a gun to their head" as she gasps for air and delivers her lectures sitting because she's morbidly obese??

I found that to be rather hilarious. Can you imagine her telling her patients that they need to lose weight to get their HTN and diabetes under control??? Whatever happened to the "doctor, heal thyself" crap? Theoretically, she could have metabolic syndrome or some other kind of problem that makes her that way, but I'm thinking chances of that are minimal. She needs to stop "eating the whole damn cow" as she put it.

I was actually rather offended at her comment about the gun to the head. That kind of humor should be saved for the bar or late-night comedy, not the classroom!!!

 

[fun8stuff]

I certainly can’t argue with those sources. Only question I have is how current are those statistics?
If they are current then all if have to say is; WTF, where was all that love from the DO admission offices while I was working the application circuit? Comparing my numbers to the ones mentioned in those links I should have at least been rolling in the interview invitations, if not in acceptances.

they are not that old. one of them had a date of 2002. but, as i said... i think they look for other "things" besides stats... and it may not be easy to get these other "things". so who knows. I also know of someone who was waitlisted/rejected from wayne 2 years in a row after an interview (rejected from other places too). He had 32 MCAT & 3.9gpa. So some times... i think there is some randomness depending on who interviews you. He is now at wayne.

 

[Flobber]

I found that to be rather hilarious. Can you imagine her telling her patients that they need to lose weight to get their HTN and diabetes under control??? Whatever happened to the "doctor, heal thyself" crap? Theoretically, she could have metabolic syndrome or some other kind of problem that makes her that way, but I'm thinking chances of that are minimal. She needs to stop "eating the whole damn cow" as she put it.

I was actually rather offended at her comment about the gun to the head. That kind of humor should be saved for the bar or late-night comedy, not the classroom!!!

Yeah, that comment and also the continuous "you guys need to chill out" and "don't freak"... who even says chill out or freak anymore? She was too fat and lazy to get the proper notes put into our packet and then she insinuates that us "up-tight" med students can't handle it. Something about this woman is really rubbing me the wrong way...

 

[fun8stuff]

ddmo, mind your own business. I mean you bother me when you talk about your surgery experience, and when everyone on this forum keeps on making a big deal out of these negotiations we are having with the DMC that pissing me off but do you see me saying anything, let people be. I am kind of liking Kyle too, I just don't see why he joined this forum though, its just a bunch of second years whining about med school but I guess its always fun to know someone who is in love with your professors daughter

Man, I am in an agressive mood. This kidney business is killing me, but it's always fun to know how exactly how we'll die when we get acute renal failure in the next couple decades

you guys seem on edge... and i think kyle is just trying to provoke old jeeps... perhaps i should have asked ddmoo about his surgical experience via PM? although, i kind of wanted to hear what everyone else did too....

 

[fun8stuff]

She was too fat and lazy to get the proper notes put into our packet

hahaha

 

[Shangal]

I wasn't serious about ddmo bragging about his surgery accomplishments, I don't know why I typed that, I guess I was trying to make a point but none was made. But I sent it anyways just because I didn't post anything on this forum for a while so I felt obligated.

But about the summer internship. Its a fun experience if you have a cool person to work for. I heard some people just showed up for 4 hours a day, others for something like 8 hours a day, but everyone enjoyed it. Plus you get to present your stuff on january after christmas break so thats fun too. Just don't expect to get published, but sometimes it works out and you get something that is significant, so just hope for the best.

 

[deowolf04]

you guys seem on edge.

Understatement of the year, genius.

 

[deowolf04]

You probablly didn't get any interviews because they dont care for accepting arroagant jerks!

Is the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[katrinadams9]

you guys seem on edge... and i think kyle is just trying to provoke old jeeps... perhaps i should have asked ddmoo about his surgical experience via PM? although, i kind of wanted to hear what everyone else did too....

I did the St. John's externship program last summer. I rotated through emergency medicine, internal medicine, cardiology, and hematology/oncology. While the program isn't as hands on as what ddmo described at HF, it was nice to spend a week in each specialty and just get a taste for them. I liked St. Johns very much because they really bent over backwards to make sure you had a good experience. We even got free parking and free food (the cafeteria food there was actually good, so I'd get there early and eat breakfast, as well as lunch... but that's just me and I'm cheap).

Basically with the St. John's program, you can do as few or as many weeks as you want (although they recommend not more than 6). You only get a $100 weekly stipend, but it's not like you're really doing work. Basically you're getting paid to shadow.

If you're looking to see what different medical specialties are all about and still want to have a lot of spare time to have fun (which I highly recommend), then you should at least check this program out.

 

[kyle_fater]

Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Hey listen, I'm definitely not trying to provoke anything here and I'm not as far from arrogant as they come. I really dont know what this person's deal is with me or why he/she is even bringing stuff up that isn't even important. So what if I asked about doctors at an unaffiliated institution. Thats where the patient wants to go, so does it really matter? Yet this person feels he/she needs to take my previous statement about how I feel that WSU doctors are the best in Michgan and say i'm contradicting myself. If I were the patient and asking for myself, then yes I'd be making a contradiction, but since its not me and I cannot force someone to go to the hospital I want them to go to, its not a contradiction. Really its all stupid crap that he/she keep bringing up.

And for the person who posted about renal disorder/path etc....yeah i feel you on that cause I just had my test on Renal Path and its interesting to learn about, but wow there is too much that can go wrong!

 

[ddmo]

I wasn't serious about ddmo bragging about his surgery accomplishments, I don't know why I typed that, I guess I was trying to make a point but none was made. But I sent it anyways just because I didn't post anything on this forum for a while so I felt obligated.

That's right. Don't make me start throwing elbows.

 

[oldjeeps]

they are not that old. one of them had a date of 2002. but, as i said... i think they look for other "things" besides stats... and it may not be easy to get these other "things". so who knows. I also know of someone who was waitlisted/rejected from wayne 2 years in a row after an interview (rejected from other places too). He had 32 MCAT & 3.9gpa. So some times... i think there is some randomness depending on who interviews you. He is now at wayne.

That pretty much sums up my attitude toward the whole application process.

 

[oldjeeps]

I did the St. John's externship program last summer. I rotated through emergency medicine, internal medicine, cardiology, and hematology/oncology. While the program isn't as hands on as what ddmo described at HF, it was nice to spend a week in each specialty and just get a taste for them. I liked St. Johns very much because they really bent over backwards to make sure you had a good experience. We even got free parking and free food (the cafeteria food there was actually good, so I'd get there early and eat breakfast, as well as lunch... but that's just me and I'm cheap).

Basically with the St. John's program, you can do as few or as many weeks as you want (although they recommend not more than 6). You only get a $100 weekly stipend, but it's not like you're really doing work. Basically you're getting paid to shadow.

If you're looking to see what different medical specialties are all about and still want to have a lot of spare time to have fun (which I highly recommend), then you should at least check this program out.

I also did the St. John's externship and had a pretty good experience.
Only thing that I would add is that some of the rotations are better than others (depending on your interests), so I would suggest talking with some of the people who did it last year to get their impressions. Also, speak with Anne (the coordinator), she has a pretty good idea of which of the rotations are the best.

 

[fun8stuff]

I also did the St. John's externship and had a pretty good experience.
Only thing that I would add is that some of the rotations are better than others (depending on your interests), so I would suggest talking with some of the people who did it last year to get their impressions. Also, speak with Anne (the coordinator), she has a pretty good idea of which of the rotations are the best.

well i am applying to a bunch. i'm trying to figure out the application process right now for st. john. It has 4 spaces to write down specialities and dates, but in another place it says pick as many specialities as you want. How many do I pick? What do I put down for dates? I tried emailing them last week and haven't gotten response.

This is what the part I am talking about looks like:

MEDICAL STUDENT APPLICATION

Please check one: Rotation(s) requested:

___ Senior Elective/Rotation 1. __________Date(s)_______________
___ Third Year Rotation 2.___________Date(s)_______________
___ Physical Diagnosis 3.___________Date(s)_______________
_X_ First Year Summer Program 4.___________Date(s)_______________

 

[fun8stuff]

Hematology/Oncology
Emergency Medicine
Gastroenterology
Enddocrinology
Rheumatology
Nephrology
Critical Care Medicine
Neurology
Infectious Disease
allergy/immunology
nephrology
nuclear medicine
family practice
pediatrics
ob/gyn
gen surgery
vascular surgery
internal medicine


can u recommend any of these? i have little idea what my interests are. probably not surgery... although i think it would be fun, i would like a better lifestyle. i think i also want to specialize. i probably have most experince with heme/onc (Which i like). other than that, i have no idea.

 

[oldjeeps]

well i am applying to a bunch. i'm trying to figure out the application process right now for st. john. It has 4 spaces to write down specialities and dates, but in another place it says pick as many specialities as you want. How many do I pick? What do I put down for dates? I tried emailing them last week and haven't gotten response.

This is what the part I am talking about looks like:

MEDICAL STUDENT APPLICATION

Please check one: Rotation(s) requested:

___ Senior Elective/Rotation 1. __________Date(s)_______________
___ Third Year Rotation 2.___________Date(s)_______________
___ Physical Diagnosis 3.___________Date(s)_______________
_X_ First Year Summer Program 4.___________Date(s)_______________

I seem to remember asking them a similar question last year and got the following as an answer:
I use the same application for all rotations, as it's easier for me.
For the Summer Program we do not need to worry about the dates, etc.
You may sign up for many rotations, not limited to four.
For dates, I hope to get a general idea of the timeframe you expect to be here; a block of time will suffice. Give me a list of rotations that interest you.

Either call or e-mail Anne (she is usually pretty good about answering her e-mail) with your questions – as said previously she is very helpful and does what she can to ensure that you have a good experience.

 

[fun8stuff]

I seem to remember asking them a similar question last year and got the following as an answer:
I use the same application for all rotations, as it's easier for me.
For the Summer Program we do not need to worry about the dates, etc.
You may sign up for many rotations, not limited to four.
For dates, I hope to get a general idea of the timeframe you expect to be here; a block of time will suffice. Give me a list of rotations that interest you.

Either call or e-mail Anne (she is usually pretty good about answering her e-mail) with your questions – as said previously she is very helpful and does what she can to ensure that you have a good experience.

thanks.

 

[katrinadams9]

Studying sucks!!!!!

Anyone else getting sick of the kidneys???

(This is just my 10 min. study break... I'm really not slacking the weekend before a test, honest!)

 

[lj1230]

I am sick of the kidney too! I can't wait for monday afternoon!

 

[MD'05]

Anyone know why Dr. Ginsburg is no longer assistant dean? I know he had some heart problems a few years back. I hope he is doing ok. He could be mean, but I think he meant well.

 

[katrinadams9]

Who else here thinks that derm is really gross? I don't have any idea why a gunner would want to go into derm... this stuff is so gross. Makes me queasy and itchy at the same time!!! 😱

 

[JonD-08]

Who else here thinks that derm is really gross? I don't have any idea why a gunner would want to go into derm... this stuff is so gross. Makes me queasy and itchy at the same time!!! 😱

It is both disgusting and boring. Which I'd guess are the same reasons for the supposed suicide rate among dentists...