Western Stats why so low?

[Sharpei5]

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So I just came across this years entering class statistics for admissions at Western University, I have seen similar threads to this in the past but... Why is it that they have lower GPA, GRE averages then all the other schools. Is it because it is expensive? Does it have a bad reputation? Is it because of the PBL system? Do they not care about grades/GRE and only care about diversity( I have heard they like older more experienced applicants, and also they play a message over and over while you are on hold about them being very proud of the fact they are top 10 in accepting Latin Americans into their programs) ? Also I want to know why the overall stats of seemingly went down compared to the stats they had for the class entering in fall 08?
Fall 09
Number of Applications Received
738
Number of Interviews Granted
308
Number of Enrolled Students
105 (anticipated)
Average Overall GPA
3.25
Average Prerequisite GPA
3.37
Average GRE - Verbal
494
Average GRE - Quantitative
634
Average GRE - Analytical Writing
4.00

 

[Shanomong]

.

 

[spyisis]

I believe they're unaccredited as of yet, so you have to take the same exams upon graduation that you'd have to take if you attended a Caribbean school (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I think that dissuades a lot of people from applying who feel they can obtain admission to an accredited school.

You're wrong. They were fully accredited two-three years ago. Its a new school and its a completely different type of curiculum, but its got some very appealing qualities. Its a great place for those people who like to work in groups and really figure things out in a clinical way rather than your typical textbook/lecture course.

However, Pomona is not a nice place to live. Its essentially one big mess of interestates with the school in the middle.

 

[badcats]

However, Pomona is not a nice place to live. Its essentially one big mess of interestates with the school in the middle.

🤣Welcome to southern California. But I do agree Western's campus is in a kinda shady neighborhood. Plus they don't have a ton of their own facilities, which may deter people who are looking to make big academic connections and like that sort of thing. Western does have a Banfield hospital on site and for students to get experience, sends them out with local doctors.

 

[natalieises]

They have lower stats because they don't place as much emphasis on grades, gre etc. They base a lot of the admissions process off of diversity. So even if someone has a 4.0 it doesn't mean they would get in to western. They try to select a class that is the most diverse from those they interview. Also, if you think about the pbl system it would be great to have people from all different background experiences when you are trying to learn together and solve a problem.

spyisis is right about western being accredited. So no worries on extra exams and such.

 

[chris03333]

I have a license to practice in both California and Michigan (Western Charter Class Graduate). I took 2 exams.
1. NAVLE
2. California state boards

Please do not post information you think about a school unless you know what you are talking about.

And if anyone cares, I passed both exams on the first try.😉

 

[cattycat]

I have a license to practice in both California and Michigan (Western Charter Class Graduate). I took 2 exams.
1. NAVLE
2. California state boards

Please do not post information you think about a school unless you know what you are talking about.

And if anyone cares, I passed both exams on the first try.😉

How did you like Western? and Pomona?

 

[natalieises]

The navle is what all vet school grads take right?

 

[Shanomong]

.

 

[DVMDream]

You're wrong. They were fully accredited two-three years ago. Its a new school and its a completely different type of curiculum, but its got some very appealing qualities. Its a great place for those people who like to work in groups and really figure things out in a clinical way rather than your typical textbook/lecture course.

However, Pomona is not a nice place to live. Its essentially one big mess of interestates with the school in the middle.

This is not accurate either. They have a limited accredation status. Taking directly from Western's website:

"The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Council on Education (COE) voted to grant the College Limited Accreditation for a period not to exceed two years."

It also states:

"The Council found the College in full compliance with 8 of 11 Standards and in substantial compliance with Standards 3 (Physical Facilities), 8 (Faculty), and 10 (Research). We have begun to address the deficiencies noted in the report and plan to have addressed most if not all of them in time to report the corrections in our annual report due in January, 2009. The next site visit by the Council is scheduled to occur in 2010."

"The College will seek re-evaluation in March, 2009. Assuming the Council finds our progress adequate after review of our report, it is likely we will achieve Full Accreditation status within one year."

It looks as though they will possibly receive full accreditation sometime in 2010.

Here is a link to the website:
http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/veterinary/accreditation.xml

Hopefully by the time we start vet school, those going to Western will not have to worry about their accreditation status.

 

[LLIPPY]

Its amazing that you have the where with all to check information on westerns accred. Status but yet not look into what "limited" accreditation means. Limited means they are FULLY accredited. The only difference is they need to have a site visit in 2 years rather than 7 years like a "fully" accredited school. It also means that whoever enters a class while on this status will graduate with accredited status no matter what.and if anyone else cares UTK and LSU are both on limited accred. The only difference is they went DOWN to their status and Western has only gone UP. Also, being accredited means you mus meet ATLEAST 80 percent of AVMAs requirements. Sheesh peeps, look things up! And by that I mean to credible sources..seems like some could use a little pbl..

 

[Robert007]

I had better stats then their statistics and I got accepted but I did not go there. I did not think the PBL worked best for me when it comes to learning. It works for some people and not for others. Plus I went to CPP for undergrad which is very very close by so I wanted a change of scenery. So the class statistics may not be the most accurate evaluation of the school.

It is a new school and has a lot going for it, but it needs a couple more years to get things in order like facilities and such and then it will be competitive. A lot of my friends go there. Location is not the best.

All the third year students did their emergency rotation at the hospital I worked at so I got to meet a lot of third year students. I was not too impressed. But its still a good school, do apply there if you want.

 

[GellaBella]

according to AVMA Limited Accreditation means:

Limited Accreditation—An accreditation status granted to a college that has specific deficiencies in one or more Standards that affect student outcomes or safety.

so I wouldn't call that exactly "full accreditation". at least not in my book. sorry

 

[DVMDream]

Its amazing that you have the where with all to check information on westerns accred. Status but yet not look into what "limited" accreditation means. Limited means they are FULLY accredited. The only difference is they need to have a site visit in 2 years rather than 7 years like a "fully" accredited school. It also means that whoever enters a class while on this status will graduate with accredited status no matter what.and if anyone else cares UTK and LSU are both on limited accred. The only difference is they went DOWN to their status and Western has only gone UP. Also, being accredited means you mus meet ATLEAST 80 percent of AVMAs requirements. Sheesh peeps, look things up! And by that I mean to credible sources..seems like some could use a little pbl..

I didn't post the meaning of Limited Accreditation because if you go the the website I listed it has the meaning there. I also looked into what it means at AVMA when I applied for Western because I wanted to know the difference. Read GellaBella's post if you want to know the REAL difference since their IS a difference between Limited and Full. I figured if people were Really wanting to know and understand the differences they could either go to the website I listed or actually look it up.

But for those that are incompetent here is what the website says about Limited Accrediatition: BIG difference if you ask me:

The definition of Limited Accreditation as stated in the COE Policy and Procedures Manual is as follows:

An accreditation status granted to a college that has specific deficiencies in one or more Standards that affect student outcomes or safety. The deficiencies are considered of a nature that they can be corrected in a reasonable length of time that must not exceed two years. Prior to expiration of this prescribed period, the Council may either review the annual report(s), request that an institutional representative appear before the Council, or conduct a comprehensive or focused site visit to determine if the deficiencies have been corrected.


I never said that people graduating a school with Limited Accreditation were have to take extra exams or would be followed by some huge black cloud after they graduate. I simply pointed out that there was a difference between limited and full accreditation. Next time, actually look at the information I have given instead of jumping right in and assuming that I did not do the research.
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[jpeterman13]

...All the third year students did their emergency rotation at the hospital I worked at so I got to meet a lot of third year students. I was not too impressed.

Care to elaborate on that? 😕

 

[Caninerepro]

I don't know a whole lot about Western's accrediitation status, other than I have a professor who is on the board of the AVMA's accreditation commitee, and she gave a speach on the accrditation process just this week, She said that as of this week Western was still on limited status, so they obviously did not pass their last inspection if it was in March of 2009. Also, while she did not say one way or the other, I was left with the impression that full acreditation was not in the near future for Pomona, nor that the graduates were accorded the same priveliges as those from a full accreditation school. She basically put them in the same lump as the new school in Calgary that has yet to graduate their first DVM class. But, do not quote me on anything, I never considered Western becasue of the Banfield tie-in, so I do not know that much about them.

 

[chris03333]

All the third year students did their emergency rotation at the hospital I worked at so I got to meet a lot of third year students. I was not too impressed. But its still a good school, do apply there if you want.

Please elaborate. It will be interesting.

FYI there are multiple emergency hospitals the Western students rotate through in 3rd year, so not all go through the same place. The way you come across, I am pretty darn sure I know exactly what place you are talking about. Ever think that people treated like crap, don't perfrom as well??? (side note I did NOT rotate through this hospital).

Also while you were not impressed, how many other school 3rd year students did you work with in your hospital?

 

[chris03333]

Also, while she did not say one way or the other, I was left with the impression that full acreditation was not in the near future for Pomona, nor that the graduates were accorded the same priveliges as those from a full accreditation school.

This is the wrong "impression". We are treated the same as any other accredited school graduate.

 

[chris03333]

How did you like Western? and Pomona?

I lived in Pomona for 9 years (CPP grad) so I was used to/liked it.

Western was a pain in the ass for the first 2 years (PBL is HARD), yet I assume year 1 and 2 at any school is hard. I think it really shaped my diagnostic skills and took away the fear of the unknown (you NEVER are told what to study, or what you will be tested on).

Years 3 and 4 were awesome. I LOVED my clinical experiences and feel this is one of the strongest aspects of the program.

 

[twelvetigers]

Llippy, pleasekeep us updated on how you're liking it there! I think everyone wonders what PBL is really 'like'' so it would be great if you kept us updated as you work your way through the curriculum. I'm very curious!

 

[LLIPPY]

My point with accred status was that for the student it makes NO difference whatsoever. Again, western hadto work their way UP from provisional to limited and expect to be "fully accredited" yes SOON. The REASON western has not yet been granted full status is because they need to increase falculty - which has been and is continuing to be done, and because they need to increase research, which has and will continue to be done by adding faculty. SO, no extra tests, and doesn't effect us. I feel like at any given time there are 20 diff professors I could go to.

Twelvetigers so far I love it here. PBL is VERY challenging, but it gives you REAL LIFE SKILLS. I don't know many other schools where in your first year you do rotations and have a clinical skills course where you learn how to place catheters, do jug sticks, learn sutures etc in your first year and before you do it on live animals. Western is VERY proud of their reverance for life philosophy and I am too. PBL is FUN, its like meeting with your friends 3 times a week. I don't think I could ever sit in another lecture again! Western teaches you to think, act and be a clinician. Contrary to what a lot of people told me there IS direction. It comes from your case and you have seminars each week confirming what is important. The challenge is knowing how to deep to go and what's expected of you.then again, I have A LOT of courses under my belt. Western has a lot of pre reqs because they expect certain things of you by the time you enter. So I'd keep that in mind. Did you apply? Any other questions feel free to PM me. Ill know better how I feel after I get all my grades back 🙂 haha

 

[DVMDream]

My point with accred status was that for the student it makes NO difference whatsoever. Again, western hadto work their way UP from provisional to limited and expect to be "fully accredited" yes SOON. The REASON western has not yet been granted full status is because they need to increase falculty - which has been and is continuing to be done, and because they need to increase research, which has and will continue to be done by adding faculty. SO, no extra tests, and doesn't effect us. I feel like at any given time there are 20 diff professors I could go to.

Twelvetigers so far I love it here. PBL is VERY challenging, but it gives you REAL LIFE SKILLS. I don't know many other schools where in your first year you do rotations and have a clinical skills course where you learn how to place catheters, do jug sticks, learn sutures etc in your first year and before you do it on live animals. Western is VERY proud of their reverance for life philosophy and I am too. PBL is FUN, its like meeting with your friends 3 times a week. I don't think I could ever sit in another lecture again! Western teaches you to think, act and be a clinician. Contrary to what a lot of people told me there IS direction. It comes from your case and you have seminars each week confirming what is important. The challenge is knowing how to deep to go and what's expected of you.then again, I have A LOT of courses under my belt. Western has a lot of pre reqs because they expect certain things of you by the time you enter. So I'd keep that in mind. Did you apply? Any other questions feel free to PM me. Ill know better how I feel after I get all my grades back 🙂 haha

Ok. I see the point you are making with the accred. It got confusing when you said limited means they are fully accreditated. It seemed kind of contradictory to me since there is limited and full accreditation, but I see what you were saying now. Sorry for the confusion.

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun at Western. I am hoping to get invited for an interview so I can take a tour of the campus. I am slightly concerned about the banfield tie but I think I will get a better idea of what it is like when I get to see the campus. Good Luck with your grades.!! And keep us updated on how the semesters go!!! 🙂

 

[jpeterman13]

... I am slightly concerned about the banfield tie but I think I will get a better idea of what it is like when I get to see the campus...

I know absolutely nothing about Banfield, what is the issue with it? I know that there is one in a Petsmart by me, but I've never gone into it or anything. just curious.

 

[LLIPPY]

Hi DVMdream,

That was my point. And also as an excuse for the way I came off, I replied at 5 am before like my 4th exam in a row 🙂.

As far as banfield I wouldn't worry about it! Its a pretty silly reason not to go to a school in my opinion. They aren't the devil! The vets there are people and the one at school is a REALLY nice new clinic and the techs who work there are awsome and will show you what you need to know. You are in NO way obligated to banfield - we do rotate through but it doesn't make you a part of their team in any way. You don't have to agree with their corporate practices,plenty of people here don't - just be smart enough to believe what you believe and know the difference. No big deal, its provides and amazing opportunity for hands on experience and ill take that any day in my first year! Again, any questions, just PM me!

 

[Addison0]

Nice discussion going on.

 

[chris03333]

and you have seminars each week confirming what is important.

Cool they needed to add something like that! Glad to see it is being done.👍
If PBL seems like meeting with your friends then you have not had the pleasure of being in a group where everyone did not necessarily get along....I had a couple of those (although I got along with everyone, you can feel the tension if your entire group does not get along). I think it is a good thing though because it forces you to work with someone you wouldn't necessarily consider a "friend". That is a life lesson that is priceless (sound like a mastercard commercial huh)

 

[Bill59]

I know absolutely nothing about Banfield, what is the issue with it? I know that there is one in a Petsmart by me, but I've never gone into it or anything. just curious.

Banfield is the largest privately-owned veterinary practice in the US. They operate a number of veterinary hospitals, most of them in Petsmart stores. For some time, they have been pushing for increasing the number of veterinarians because they hire a lot of veterinarians and increasing the supply: demand ratio is in their financial interest.

 

[cerealrhapsody]

Banfield is the largest privately-owned veterinary practice in the US. They operate a number of veterinary hospitals, most of them in Petsmart stores. For some time, they have been pushing for increasing the number of veterinarians because they hire a lot of veterinarians and increasing the supply: demand ratio is in their financial interest.

So they want to increase the number of veterinarians so jobs will be more competitive and they can pay them less? No wonder everyone badmouths Banfield...

 

[ckgilabert]

the issue doctors have with working with banfield....is that they have to follow strict guidelines.

for example: dog has X disease or whatever banfield doctors HAVE to do a specific treatment.

i dont know if im explaining it correctly, but the doctor i worked with said that she liked banfield....but that she had to treat like how they wanted her to treat. so she would put in the dogs weight and diagnoses...and it would tell her what to do. she couldnt deviate from it.

anyway, does that make sense? she felt frustrated at times, but she liked banfield and she also liked the western students she worked with.

i forget why...but the doctor eventually quit at banfield. i think she wanted a raise.

 

[Bill59]

So they want to increase the number of veterinarians so jobs will be more competitive and they can pay them less? No wonder everyone badmouths Banfield...

Yes, but that's no why everyone badmouths Banfield. All practice owners want to hire veterinarians as inexpensively as possible. The reason some veterinarians disagree with Banfield is because they have practice guidelines that include things that some veterinarians feel are not good medicine -- such as vaccinating for everything. And often.

The more positive and optimistic see this as a difference in medical opinion. The more cynical see this as profit driven.

 

[DVMDream]

Hi DVMdream,

That was my point. And also as an excuse for the way I came off, I replied at 5 am before like my 4th exam in a row 🙂.

I can completely understand that. 😛