WesternU CVM Vs UC Davis SVM

[Savethewhales]

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Or maybe instead we could be talking about why one program might be personally more well suited for someone. for instance...nyanko likes research. I'm sure there are things we can learn from each others programs that will be helpful because we very well could be working together someday. I think perhaps starting off with one thing verses another automatically prompts people to start stacking up things on each side. positive positive...what do I like about davis....um your anatomy room and large big new microscopes! And dont get me wrong...there are things I dont like about western too. I doubt there are many people 100% satisfied with everything at their school


OR maybe this is a great place to clear up misconceptions about both schools for the c/o 2016 applicants. For instance westerns relationship to banfield, or questions/concerns about each schools curriculum.

 

[nyanko]

.

 

[tuwest2011]

Uhh you seem confused lol😳

 

[scb44f]

I have to be honest it seems like Davis SVM is just taking very key components from Westerns program and trying not to give credit. I saw the video link and I felt like it was a form of copying with the intent to discredit the latest veterinary program using the method. In addition not once did she give credit to Westerns system for being innovative and remarkable in veterinary education which to me seemed like a snub !

Why do they owe it to Western though? It's not Western's technique. There are multiple medical/veterinary schools that use PBL, either entirely or in part, so why does one school need credit over the others? I don't think it's a matter of "taking" parts of that educational style; it's the idea that these methods have been tried and shown to be successful elsewhere, and the school is interested in trying it on their own turf. Unless I'm missing something, there's no reason to feel that credit is due.

 

[tuwest2011]

Why do they owe it to Western though? It's not Western's technique. There are multiple medical/veterinary schools that use PBL, either entirely or in part, so why does one school need credit over the others? I don't think it's a matter of "taking" parts of that educational style; it's the idea that these methods have been tried and shown to be successful elsewhere, and the school is interested in trying it on their own turf. Unless I'm missing something, there's no reason to feel that credit is due.

Well for one all the people and programs and prospective students veterinary leaders and etc who said it would not work ! Then they prove to be wrong and now want to model the very same program thats why! 😀

 

[quantized]

I have to be honest it seems like Davis SVM is just taking very key components from Westerns program and trying not to give credit. I saw the video link and I felt like it was a form of copying with the intent to discredit the latest veterinary program using the method. In addition not once did she give credit to Westerns system for being innovative and remarkable in veterinary education which to me seemed like a snub !

 

[twelvetigers]

Jeez, you guys. Chill a bit. No reason this should be school vs. school.

 

[Savethewhales]

TT your shiba avatar is kinda perfect for this convo lol

 

[nyanko]

.

 

[tuwest2011]

I don't have a problem with any schools.

Except those jerkoffs who rejected me, they suck.

I did not get rejected but if I did I woulda have to open my own vet skoo! lol And this is all in good fun trust me i love and respect davis SVM and I am excited to be close enough to even experience a Davis grad abilities one day !!

 

[scb44f]

Well for one all the people and programs and prospective students veterinary leaders and etc who said it would not work ! Then they prove to be wrong and now want to model the very same program thats why! 😀

So it doesn't matter that, for instance, Mizzou's med school implemented PBL 5 years before Western's DVM program existed? While the details you learn in medical vs. veterinary school is different, you learn the a lot of the same general stuff. I understand that some people thought it wouldn't work, but to me that doesn't mean Western deserves credit for trying it out first in the veterinary world when it's not drastically different from what others had been doing for years.

I'm not trying to belittle Western, but I don't think it's an issue that Davis didn't mention Western when it's just a method of teaching. They're schools. That's what schools do, try new things to advance the quality of graduates they release into the real world.

 

[tuwest2011]

So it doesn't matter that, for instance, Mizzou's med school implemented PBL 5 years before Western's DVM program existed? While the details you learn in medical vs. veterinary school is different, you learn the a lot of the same general stuff. I understand that some people thought it wouldn't work, but to me that doesn't mean Western deserves credit for trying it out first in the veterinary world when it's not drastically different from what others had been doing for years.

I'm not trying to belittle Western, but I don't think it's an issue that Davis didn't mention Western when it's just a method of teaching. They're schools. That's what schools do, try new things to advance the quality of graduates they release into the real world.

If that helps you davis and other schools who try to implement it and reword it sleep at night then so be it! I know it is what it is and I have followed Westerns progress with this system since it started so I will continue to be there male cheerleader lol😀

 

[scb44f]

Okay then... imagine I just posted the same faces as nyanko and quantized. I fail to see where this thread came from or where it's going...

 

[tuwest2011]

Okay then... imagine I just posted the same faces as nyanko and quantized. I fail to see where this thread came from or where it's going...

As I could understand that considering your chozzing to attend Mizzoui this thread is to compare and contranst Davis and Western so I can see how your having a hard time grasping its purpose .🙂

 

[scb44f]

As I could understand that considering your chozzing to attend Mizzoui this thread is to compare and contranst Davis and Western so I can see how your having a hard time grasping its purpose .🙂

I just didn't understand your thought process behind the whole giving credit to Western thing, and I don't think it's necessary to compare two schools outside of making a decision about applications/acceptances. Anyway, carry on... This will be a good thread for anyone considering these schools in the future.

 

[PearlDVM]

western is not the only school to use pbl. also - uc davis is simply trying something new because they are trying to improve the program. If they are inspired in any way by other programs, and making changes for the better because of it - good for them. you can't expect one school to actively solicit for another school when describing their program. perhaps that is why you felt they didn't give western their dues for any similarities? (tho, I would like to point out that i know VERY little about our new curriculum).

I am a little bit taken aback at the turn this discussion has taken, even tho i kind of understand why it did. I feel insulted as a UC Davis student, and also confused by Western students' responses. We are ALL going to be vets soon enough. we are ALL on the same side here, peeps. I just think that we have GOT to trust that each school, regardless of the program, will adequately prepare us for our future profession. I was accepted to western last year, and waitlisted at Davis. I chose to turn down western, and try again for davis. it was a PERSONAL decision. I liked the UC davis curriculum style better, and loved norcal. I would be curious about western's passing rate as well, but only because i'm curious. There wouldn't be a judgement passed about the quality of the program based on that. god knows there were classes that were close for me. It's just a question. Also - I think what happened here is that people's comments were a little strongly worded and taken that way. not hard to do in an on-line forum.

I just wanted to take a moment and remind people that we are all colleagues. and if you don't see it that way now - recognize that you will have to see it that way in four years!!!! 😉

 

[PearlDVM]

haha - i walked away for about an hour, and then returned to see i hadnt submitted my post and just pressed submitt, only to discover how much had happened since then... so the above may seem a bit outdated. this thread moves fast!

 

[PearlDVM]

Okay then... imagine I just posted the same faces as nyanko and quantized. I fail to see where this thread came from or where it's going...

OMG!!!! the worm! i <3 her! the labyrinth is def in my top 5 movies. (my first dog was named bowie). anways . . . continue normal thread topic.

 

[tuwest2011]

I have been saying this all along and I think the passion behind this thread can be forgiven. Carry on😀

 

[scb44f]

OMG!!!! the worm! i <3 her! the labyrinth is def in my top 5 movies. (my first dog was named bowie). anways . . . continue normal thread topic.

😀 I have seen it way more times than any normal person should, to be honest.

Haha anyway, we should probably go back to the original topic now.

 

[moosenanny]

I get what you are saying moosenanny....BUT please understand...it was presented to me by my student mentor and the person I felt was chosen to represent Davis in a way much different then you guys are portaying it. It was presented that it was sort of known but professors are changing what they do because they dont like it and it was a hush hush student thing. I had a few hours to get an impression of the school and my mentor was not really into it. Perhaps next year you guys should consider being mentors so you can share what you love about the school. All I got to experience was the representative presented to me by the school.

Nyanko is right, we were all mentors. I'm sorry that you have the wrong impression of our test files - probably a combination of your mentor over-emphasizing it, plus perhaps your own misinterpretations. Anyone can be a mentor (there is no training involved) and each person is assigned one or two interviewees. Yes, some mentors may be better/more dedicated than others . . . but your education is on YOU and shouldn't depend on anyone else (although I guess that's the "Western Way" according to others posting). You could have asked more about this before jumping to conclusions and letting it influence where you get your veterinary education! When I was mistaken about Western's stats I promptly apologized - but it seems you want to cling to your misinformation and blame someone else for it, when you should suck it up and say you were misinformed and are only now getting the right information.

 

[TomTheK9Fixr]

Threads like this make SDN really annoying.

 

[tuwest2011]

Is it possible that Save the whales had an opinion of a college where is the harm in that? I feel if that were the case then everyone who doubted Western or did not apply for the lack of should also be questioned? I think save the whales made a good choice and she based it off of her personal experience and she clarified that! I am not running to her rescue but it's like you guys are beating a dead horse? I sometimes question how could you live in Cali and not even aply to Western futhermore how can you live in Cali and decline an interview at Western before your acceptance to another program when you paid the VMCAS fee? Then you want to ridicule certain aspects of the program it doenst sit to well with me i am just saying!

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

I was actually a bit dissapointed when I opened this thread - I was looking forward to a really good discussion on the pros and cons of each school. However, to have a discussion, students from both schools have to admit pros and cons without taking it personnally - instead (I admit to skimming the thread) it's a bunch of potshots......

2 points - 1. I think it's very important to know the dropout rate (for whatever reason) of a school. It can be an indicator of a lot of different things, and something to take into consideration. It shouldn't be a taboo subject. 2. I used old tests as an UG (most of which were freely given by the professors) as one study tool among MANY while studying for exams. You tend to be able to reguritate and apply information in a way similar to how you learned and studied it. Thus, it was helpful to know whether it was multiple choice (Avian Biology), or if it was going to be a blank page that says "digest a carb in a cow" (animal biochem). In both cases, I learned the material - but you have to prove you learned the material, and thus need to make sure you will be able to convey that understanding to the professor in whatever mode they have chosen.

Now for the point of the post - what i see as the pros and cons of the 2 schools and why I applied to UC Davis over Western. (Just opinions people, preception is not necessarily reality, but my PERCEPTION of the school is what caused me to decide whether or not to attend).

Pros of Davis
*Situated in a more ag area (good for a food science vet)
*Name recognition througout the country outside of the vet community (I travel to work and Davis is known everywhere I've gone).
*I think their curriculum change is in the right direction
*More opportunity for me, as I plan to NOT be a "clinician type" vet.
*Already have a support system at Davis.
*Most vets I've worked with are UC Davis grads and have expressed a preference for hiring UC Davis grads......it might give me an advantage in the job market after school, assuming all other things equal (which they often aren't...)
*Huge network of campuses, undergrands etc.
*Research and non-clinician practice and exposure.

Cons of Davis
*I'm not a fan of the town
*Seriously guys - the website sucks and is hard to navigate - when was the last time it was updated? It looks almost the same as it did almost a decade ago.
*New curriculum that I get to be the guina pig for.....
*Beauracy up the yin yang and the ever present question of state funding....
*Feel like I've been there my entire life.

Pros of Western
*going somewhere new!!!!!!! It would be nice to see a different campus and get to know a neew area.
*an emphasis on business sense and the economics of being a practicing vet.
*It looks new and shiny 🙂 I'm easily impressed.....
*A professional school.

Cons of Western
*location - I'm not a city girl and socal would drive me nuts
*cost
*Extra prerequites such as economics that I never had time to take.
*Doesn't have the same name recognition as Davis
*Heavy empahsis on the PBL system with little to no traditional classroom time. i think I would have a hard time adjusting. Davis seems to lean a bit more towards the classroom (new curriculum). I may not adjust to rotations as quickly (see above comment about how info is learned and thus is available to easily apply), but I'd rather set myself up for success in the beginning in a way using a method I KNOW I can be succesfful at, and try a bit harder down the road. PBL would obviously be a pro for someone else - just depends.

 

[tuwest2011]

I was actually a bit dissapointed when I opened this thread - I was looking forward to a really good discussion on the pros and cons of each school. However, to have a discussion, students from both schools have to admit pros and cons without taking it personnally - instead (I admit to skimming the thread) it's a bunch of potshots......

2 points - 1. I think it's very important to know the dropout rate (for whatever reason) of a school. It can be an indicator of a lot of different things, and something to take into consideration. It shouldn't be a taboo subject. 2. I used old tests as an UG (most of which were freely given by the professors) as one study tool among MANY while studying for exams. You tend to be able to reguritate and apply information in a way similar to how you learned and studied it. Thus, it was helpful to know whether it was multiple choice (Avian Biology), or if it was going to be a blank page that says "digest a carb in a cow" (animal biochem). In both cases, I learned the material - but you have to prove you learned the material, and thus need to make sure you will be able to convey that understanding to the professor in whatever mode they have chosen.

Now for the point of the post - what i see as the pros and cons of the 2 schools and why I applied to UC Davis over Western. (Just opinions people, preception is not necessarily reality, but my PERCEPTION of the school is what caused me to decide whether or not to attend).

Pros of Davis
*Situated in a more ag area (good for a food science vet)
*Name recognition througout the country outside of the vet community (I travel to work and Davis is known everywhere I've gone).
*I think their curriculum change is in the right direction
*More opportunity for me, as I plan to NOT be a "clinician type" vet.
*Already have a support system at Davis.
*Most vets I've worked with are UC Davis grads and have expressed a preference for hiring UC Davis grads......it might give me an advantage in the job market after school, assuming all other things equal (which they often aren't...)
*Huge network of campuses, undergrands etc.
*Research and non-clinician practice and exposure.

Cons of Davis
*I'm not a fan of the town
*Seriously guys - the website sucks and is hard to navigate - when was the last time it was updated? It looks almost the same as it did almost a decade ago.
*New curriculum that I get to be the guina pig for.....
*Beauracy up the yin yang and the ever present question of state funding....
*Feel like I've been there my entire life.

Pros of Western
*going somewhere new!!!!!!! It would be nice to see a different campus and get to know a neew area.
*an emphasis on business sense and the economics of being a practicing vet.
*It looks new and shiny 🙂 I'm easily impressed.....
*A professional school.

Cons of Western
*location - I'm not a city girl and socal would drive me nuts
*cost
*Extra prerequites such as economics that I never had time to take.
*Doesn't have the same name recognition as Davis
*Heavy empahsis on the PBL system with little to no traditional classroom time. i think I would have a hard time adjusting. Davis seems to lean a bit more towards the classroom (new curriculum). I may not adjust to rotations as quickly (see above comment about how info is learned and thus is available to easily apply), but I'd rather set myself up for success in the beginning in a way using a method I KNOW I can be succesfful at, and try a bit harder down the road. PBL would obviously be a pro for someone else - just depends.

Ok that Pre Req has been removed for almost over 3 years lol and those are the only pros you can come up with lol J/k

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

I had to make my prereq decisions 5 or 6 years ago, so that's entirely possible (re: the econ requirement removed). I'm just lucky that Davis didn't increase their physics or ochem requirement to a year and require a lab for physcis. Otherwise I WOULD be faced with having to go back for prerequites before applying!

tuwest2011 - I've heard a lot about your views on the pros on western and the cons of Davis - what, in your opinion are the cons of western and the pros of Davis?

 

[LuckyChobi]

I was actually a bit dissapointed when I opened this thread - I was looking forward to a really good discussion on the pros and cons of each school. However, to have a discussion, students from both schools have to admit pros and cons without taking it personnally - instead (I admit to skimming the thread) it's a bunch of potshots......

2 points - 1. I think it's very important to know the dropout rate (for whatever reason) of a school. It can be an indicator of a lot of different things, and something to take into consideration. It shouldn't be a taboo subject. 2. I used old tests as an UG (most of which were freely given by the professors) as one study tool among MANY while studying for exams. You tend to be able to reguritate and apply information in a way similar to how you learned and studied it. Thus, it was helpful to know whether it was multiple choice (Avian Biology), or if it was going to be a blank page that says "digest a carb in a cow" (animal biochem). In both cases, I learned the material - but you have to prove you learned the material, and thus need to make sure you will be able to convey that understanding to the professor in whatever mode they have chosen.

Now for the point of the post - what i see as the pros and cons of the 2 schools and why I applied to UC Davis over Western. (Just opinions people, preception is not necessarily reality, but my PERCEPTION of the school is what caused me to decide whether or not to attend).

Pros of Davis
*Situated in a more ag area (good for a food science vet)
*Name recognition througout the country outside of the vet community (I travel to work and Davis is known everywhere I've gone).
*I think their curriculum change is in the right direction
*More opportunity for me, as I plan to NOT be a "clinician type" vet.
*Already have a support system at Davis.
*Most vets I've worked with are UC Davis grads and have expressed a preference for hiring UC Davis grads......it might give me an advantage in the job market after school, assuming all other things equal (which they often aren't...)
*Huge network of campuses, undergrands etc.
*Research and non-clinician practice and exposure.

Cons of Davis
*I'm not a fan of the town
*Seriously guys - the website sucks and is hard to navigate - when was the last time it was updated? It looks almost the same as it did almost a decade ago.
*New curriculum that I get to be the guina pig for.....
*Beauracy up the yin yang and the ever present question of state funding....
*Feel like I've been there my entire life.

Pros of Western
*going somewhere new!!!!!!! It would be nice to see a different campus and get to know a neew area.
*an emphasis on business sense and the economics of being a practicing vet.
*It looks new and shiny 🙂 I'm easily impressed.....
*A professional school.

Cons of Western
*location - I'm not a city girl and socal would drive me nuts
*cost
*Extra prerequites such as economics that I never had time to take.
*Doesn't have the same name recognition as Davis
*Heavy empahsis on the PBL system with little to no traditional classroom time. i think I would have a hard time adjusting. Davis seems to lean a bit more towards the classroom (new curriculum). I may not adjust to rotations as quickly (see above comment about how info is learned and thus is available to easily apply), but I'd rather set myself up for success in the beginning in a way using a method I KNOW I can be succesfful at, and try a bit harder down the road. PBL would obviously be a pro for someone else - just depends.

Really LIKE this approach🙂 👍

Actually I am debating between Western and CO state. It has been a very difficult choice and I haven't made my decision yet. Probably I should visit CO state first and lay out MY own list of pros and cons of schools. Thanks!!

 

[tuwest2011]

I had to make my prereq decisions 5 or 6 years ago, so that's entirely possible (re: the econ requirement removed). I'm just lucky that Davis didn't increase their physics or ochem requirement to a year and require a lab for physcis. Otherwise I WOULD be faced with having to go back for prerequites before applying!

tuwest2011 - I've heard a lot about your views on the pros on western and the cons of Davis - what, in your opinion are the cons of western and the pros of Davis?

Well Western has none just joking uhhmm seriously though I thought I was being subjective but ummm...
Davis :
Pros:
Established program
Renowed DVMs produced
Awesome program for research veterinarians
Great VMOP program for under rep minorities
Teaching hopsitals
Stong component for producing prodcution veterinarians

Western
Cons
Too much independence in 1st yr
geesh this hard
PBL does not go in to as much detail of basic sciences like a traditional program
Learining issues are not always clearly defined I mean the depth of info to be viewed.
Worried about how pathology radiology could be covered , but rumor has it Radiology is directed
hmmmmm no affilaition to teaching hospital unless requested by student in fourth yr!
Ok im done because I just love love love my Western lol

 

[tuwest2011]

Really LIKE this approach🙂 👍

Actually I am debating between Western and CO state. It has been a very difficult choice and I haven't made my decision yet. Probably I should visit CO state first and lay out MY own list of pros and cons of schools. Thanks!!

o no you dont little missy lol I thought we talked about this lol!😀😀

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

Oh I should mention that a huge pro for Davis for me was their MPVM program! I'm seriously considering doing a dual degree. I'd rather do this than a residency at this point.

If someone asked me what the differences were between the two schools in a nutshell, I'd probably compare it to the differences between the CSU system and the UC system for undergrads. Both quality educations that (IMO) prepare a person very differently in the subject matter. Each is tailored to a different kind of student and different personality. In some cases, chosing the right school would be the difference between enjoying and being sucessful in school.....and not.

Edit: LuckyChobi - thanks for the compliment! I'm very list oriented so it feels like I simply cannot think if I cannot write a list associated with something!

 

[LuckyChobi]

o no you dont little missy lol I thought we talked about this lol!😀😀

How did you find out it was me lol
hey even if I choose CO state can I still visit? Western 2015ers are awesome.

 

[tuwest2011]

How did you find out it was me lol
hey even if I choose CO state can I still visit? Western 2015ers are awesome.

sure lol even though I be the most upset lol but aye your right my future classmates have expressed awesomeness and unity! I know whereever you choose you'll do fine and Ill have to start a Western VS. CSU thread just kidding lol but good luck and hit me up you know where to find me !

 

[LuckyChobi]

Oh I should mention that a huge pro for Davis for me was their MPVM program! I'm seriously considering doing a dual degree. I'd rather do this than a residency at this point.

If someone asked me what the differences were between the two schools in a nutshell, I'd probably compare it to the differences between the CSU system and the UC system for undergrads. Both quality educations that (IMO) prepare a person very differently in the subject matter. Each is tailored to a different kind of student and different personality. In some cases, chosing the right school would be the difference between enjoying and being sucessful in school.....and not.

Edit: LuckyChobi - thanks for the compliment! I'm very list oriented so it feels like I simply cannot think if I cannot write a list associated with something!

I went to UCSD (VERY research oriented) for my undergrad and I thought Davis would be a good fit for me....but Davis told me to go away lol. (I will still love Davis though)
CSU offered me a position in Vet Prep program and I will be able to pay in-state tuition which will save me whole lot of money.

 

[primatevetjess]

Yes, we are all colleagues. Which is why I was frustrated that the thread was just basically a couple of Western students bashing Davis and then Davis students trying to defend ourselves and our school. Lame.

Anyway, in order to actually contribute to the discussion, here are my reasons for not applying to Western:

• I am really good at traditional classroom learning. I knew that I could be successful at it and didn't want to try a vastly different learning style going into veterinary school.
• When I was applying a few years ago, it was still under limited accreditation and the reputation was still being built
• I'm interested in lab animal medicine, and was under the impression that it's not the best school for that - there are TONS of research animals and opportunities to get experience with them here at Davis
• And while this is superficial - I lived in SoCal for 6 years before applying to vet school and was just ready to leave - I hate it

All that being said, I have a couple of very close friends at Western and have absolutely nothing against the school or its students. I worked with two vets from Western's first graduating class and they were both fantastic clinicians. It just wasn't for me, the same way that Davis isn't for others. You can have school pride without bashing another school.

 

[tuwest2011]

Yes, we are all colleagues. Which is why I was frustrated that the thread was just basically a couple of Western students bashing Davis and then Davis students trying to defend ourselves and our school. Lame.

Anyway, in order to actually contribute to the discussion, here are my reasons for not applying to Western:

• I am really good at traditional classroom learning. I knew that I could be successful at it and didn't want to try a vastly different learning style going into veterinary school.
• When I was applying a few years ago, it was still under limited accreditation and the reputation was still being built
• I'm interested in lab animal medicine, and was under the impression that it's not the best school for that - there are TONS of research animals and opportunities to get experience with them here at Davis
• And while this is superficial - I lived in SoCal for 6 years before applying to vet school and was just ready to leave - I hate it

All that being said, I have a couple of very close friends at Western and have absolutely nothing against the school or its students. I worked with two vets from Western's first graduating class and they were both fantastic clinicians. It just wasn't for me, the same way that Davis isn't for others. You can have school pride without bashing another school.

you may want to reread the thread

 

[primatevetjess]

you may want to reread the thread

Thanks, I did. A couple of people mentioned being uncomfortable or concerned about Banfield's role, which is a personal choice and Savethewhales did a good job explaining it. I also see moosenanny asking for clarification of a rumor and then apologizing. Those don't really compare to calling us all cheaters and saying we stole Western's entire curriculum without giving credit.

I still think this thread can be really useful for future students deciding between the two schools, so let's keep it where it's been for the last several posts - discussing our own personal choices regarding two great vet schools in the same state (how lucky are we in that?).

 

[tuwest2011]

Thanks, I did. A couple of people mentioned being uncomfortable or concerned about Banfield's role, which is a personal choice and Savethewhales did a good job explaining it. I also see moosenanny asking for clarification of a rumor and then apologizing. Those don't really compare to calling us all cheaters and saying we stole Western's entire curriculum without giving credit.

I still think this thread can be really useful for future students deciding between the two schools, so let's keep it where it's been for the last several posts - discussing our own personal choices regarding two great vet schools in the same state (how lucky are we in that?).

i can only imagine that when we get into some good ole solid practicing

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

I went to UCSD (VERY research oriented) for my undergrad and I thought Davis would be a good fit for me....but Davis told me to go away lol. (I will still love Davis though)
CSU offered me a position in Vet Prep program and I will be able to pay in-state tuition which will save me whole lot of money.

I should clarify that when I said "CSU system", I was talking about the Californai state university systems, NOT colorado! Very confusing.....

It was fun for me (UC grad) to compare with my collegue (California state grad) our exact same majors and what a HUGE difference there is between them. I think in general UC's prepare for grad schools and research better, and she agreed. BUT, she was much better prepared to go into the working world with some very hands on skills that I had to scramble my first year to get. While researching the two SVM schools (western and davis), I got the same impression, although the dichonomy between them is less pronounced than the difference between a UC and Cal state - BUT it's there nevertheless and one approach will work much better for some students, and not others.

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

i can only imagine that when we get into some good ole solid practicing

I think this is where maybe part of the confusion comes in. I for one have absolutely no intention of practicing. You apparently do. Would western prepare you as well for the career that I have in mind for myself? Probably not. There are many different types of vets and the trick is to chose schools that compliment both the end career (not necessarily a clinician type), and the students learning style.

On a side note, if you take the statistics from the medical school side of PBL, PBL learners may have an advantage early on in rotations, but by the end, the advantage seems to even out between students of all programs. So the assertion that PBL makes for better vets, is in my opinion, up for debate. I think what we CAN conclude is that the 2 styles of learning are very different, as as a prospective student to either of these schools, you will be well served taking some time to think about WHAT WILL BE THE BEST LEARNING STYLE FOR YOU. If you learn well with the PBL style, you may indeed be a better vet than youwould have in a traditional learning style, BUT another student may be a better vet under the traditional system because the PBL doesn't connect for them. However it is impossible to say that PBL>traditional for all students.

 

[primatevetjess]

i can only imagine that when we get into some good ole solid practicing

Keep taking shots at me, that's fine. It leads to more discussion, so I'm all for it. I, like AHorseOffCourse, don't plan on practicing. But I will say that >100 Davis grads a year do plan on practicing and go on to be very good, successful clinicians. As do the other schools that don't use a PBL learning style. I stand by my assertion that it's more about individual learning style than quality of veterinarian that the program produces.

 

[scb44f]

If you learn well with the PBL style, you may indeed be a better vet than youwould have in a traditional learning style, BUT another student may be a better vet under the traditional system because the PBL doesn't connect for them. However it is impossible to say that PBL>traditional for all students.

Yes! This is a really important thing to think about when you apply anywhere. My SO is in a full PBL med school. He has said many times before that he is really glad to go there because, while he can learn in a traditional setting, he is fantastic in a group-based setting. Personally, while I could learn in a PBL setting, I feel that I do really well in a traditional setting.

I noticed that it was mentioned that PBL doesn't go into the basic sciences as much. The thing is, when you are working on a case, you have to learn the basic sciences in your research before you can even think of teaching your objectives to the rest of your group. You're not spoon-fed information, and that's the point. You're seeing a real application of the material so that you do learn the basics. It should also be noted that you aren't just thrown into a room for PBL and left to figure it out on your own. You do get some direction from the tutor/advisor/whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, I'd really like to see more constructive and objective statements about these schools.

 

[PearlDVM]

I stand by my assertion that it's more about individual learning style than quality of veterinarian that the program produces.

👍

 

[that redhead]

Tuwest, you seem to be annoying and goading on purpose. Threads like this aren't actually "fun", depsite what you may think. I think we've all acknowledged that Western and Davis are good schools in different ways. I'm glad you have school pride but it's becoming obnoxious and giving a lot of people a negative vibe about Western.

 

[gsi924]

as a potential western student with a degree from UCD this thread is really starting to irritate me...

there is no single best way to go about educating vet students, even professors at western said in the long run everyone is about on par with each other no matter if you went through a traditional lecture or PBL curriculum.

i do not see the point in this thread because the thread creator did not even apply to davis or even have seen it, i have never seen or applied to about 25 of the vet schools in the US and do not have the audacity to start creating threads and saying my school is better then yours because of A, B, and C.

every vet school has its random rumors (true or not), pros, and cons and most of the time it is due to personal preference (for pros and cons)

ok that was my last crack before being productive

Davis Pros:
-Hands down amazing school, great professors, great resources, very conducive for research (i.e. collaborate with med school, giant ag and bio sci college)
-very new lecture and lab buildings
-amazing teaching hospital

Davis cons:
-CA state funding
-Class size is too big for my personal taste
-went to davis as undergrade, worked for the vet school for 2 years, as much as i love the city of davis and the school, i need change (but its okay davis rejected me so they fulfilled my wish of change)

Western Pros:
-location, i am from socal, i love it, even the traffic and all the bad things associated with it, plus there is no other vet school that can provide the great weather socal can (sorry florida i do not like the humidity)
-new facilities
-since there is no teaching hospital you are forced to go out to other sites/clinics, so you are more general practice ready and you have the chance to network with out even really trying (double edged sword)
-4th year flexibility (double edged sword though)
-PBL, i dont love lectures

Western cons:
-price, i can go oos for cheaper and may do that
-no teaching hospital (its really hard to decide where you may want to live your third year since you might be driving all over the place in 60 mile radius) i am not one for commuting.
-too much flexibility in your fourth year i like a little more structure to make sure im seeing everything i need to see
-strictly PBL, it sounds great but too much of it might take too much effort to get used to it and adjust.

as of right now i am technically going to western, i am waitlisted at one more school. and honestly i may take my waitlist school because it seems to be the middle ground of my pros/cons list and its where my gut is telling me to go...

for the sakes of this thread leave the blind accusations out and keep productive because davis versus western is an interesting topic, but then again its apples versus oranges.

 

[tuwest2011]

like i said before i stand by my program and its mission. the nerve for some folks to come on this thread and share the opinions of there thread and if you get a negative impression because of my opinions o please spare me I have not said anything negative about davis let alone some students from davis attacking some of the other sdners if you can take it then dont dish it out. also you dont have to entertain this thread as everyone love healthy debeates .

 

[teatime]

I can understand how getting a negative impression of a school based on something that hits home for you (for savethewhales it was the text box info) can make a huge impact on your decision. That's fine. But just anecdotally, I had a serious of miscommunications and misgivings about Illinois, and I STILL was willing to weigh it against Ohio, make another trip out there, just to be 100% sure I was making the right decision (this was before I heard back from Davis).

Me personally, I had a great 3rd year mentor, but even if I hadn't, it wouldn't have affected my decision to attend Davis. You have to weigh all factors, make a pros/cons list, whatever. It's been my top choice for many reasons and in addition, I think it just doesn't make sense (for me) to spend an additional 10,000 a year to go to Western. And that school is closer to where I grew up, friends, family, etc. But to each his own...

 

[TrocarKarin]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, since it seems like it has a lot more snarking then useful info, but I figured I would try to clear up some misconceptions, since skimming the thread I didn't see any posts by actual Western students.

We don't have access to previous tests. However, each week on blackboard, we have a "formative quiz" which is optional, and doesn't count towards our grade. It helps to see what types of questions are asked, and if something's asked on the quiz that you didn't cover during the week, you know to look into it over the weekend. There are usually 10-20 questions on the midterms and finals that are taken from the formative quizzes word-for-word.

I don't know where TuWest got the idea that we don't cover the basic sciences as in-depth as other schools, but the majority of what we've covered this year has been basic sciences. Yes, we mix in some clinical stuff, but it's the underlying sciences that we're tested on. I'd say that each test covers about 30% anatomy, 30% pathology, 20% physiology, and the other 20% is a mix of the other sciences.

Pathology and radiology are both self-directed and taught. We're expected to read about path, and then we have lectures every couple weeks where the pathologists cover cases, and help answer any questions we might have. Radiology is snuck into the cases, and some of it we're expected to figure out on our own, then we have radiology lectures every block, and we're given DVDs with really helpful radiology info and case studies. 4th year, we have the option of doing a radiology/ultrasonography rotation that's supposed to be pretty amazing.

I can't even begin to compare and contrast the two schools, as I didn't even look into applying to Davis, since requiring a full year of organic chemistry was the first criteria I used to weed out schools. However, the vet I worked for before getting into school was an '84 Davis grad, and she absolutely loved it.

For Western, here's a couple of the pros and cons that I can think of:

Pros:
The subjects get integrated together, and you tend to learn by systems, instead of having subjects seperated out and taught separately.
Not having to sit through lectures is wonderful.
You get to be a part of something new and exciting.
There are days when you don't have to be to class until 1pm. As a night owl, I appreciate the chance to sleep in.
As long as you cover the basics, you can dive deeper into subjects that really interest you.
With the exception of some of the master's students on campus, pretty much any student you bump into will be a doctor of something. No undergrads to deal with.
The faculty is seriously amazing.

Cons:
Some subjects suck to teach to yourself. I really wish somebody would go through histo for us. I've resorted to youtube videos.
IPE - we have to take this "interprofessional education" class, where we have to basically "PBL" a case with students from all the other medical professionals. It's a huge waste of time.
You change PBL groups every 8 weeks. Sometimes you get an awesome one, and sometimes you get a dud. There's nothing you can do except for just toughing it out.
The first test is insanely stressful, because you don't know what to expect. Once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad.
It's expensive. The types of jobs I'll be willing to accept after I graduate will probably be influenced by my debt.

 

[AHorseOffCourse]

I can't even begin to compare and contrast the two schools, as I didn't even look into applying to Davis, since requiring a full year of organic chemistry was the first criteria I used to weed out schools. However, the vet I worked for before getting into school was an '84 Davis grad, and she absolutely loved it.

GREAT post! On the quote above, were you excluding schools that required a full year of ochem, or were you only considering schools with a requirement of a full year of ochem? I know that one of the reasons Davis was on my list was because it didn't require a full year - I have 1 semester+1 quarter, which doesn't quite equal a full year.

I LOL'ed at your utube comment for histo! Sometime you'll have to share your favorite videos!

 

[TrocarKarin]

I thought Davis did require a full year. I guess I don't really remember why I didn't consider applying there if that isn't the case. Maybe it's their abysmal OOS acceptance rate?

I pretty much rely on the washingtondeceit youtube channel, but there are some other good videos I don't have bookmarked.

 

[tuwest2011]

I wasn't going to post in this thread, since it seems like it has a lot more snarking then useful info, but I figured I would try to clear up some misconceptions, since skimming the thread I didn't see any posts by actual Western students.

We don't have access to previous tests. However, each week on blackboard, we have a "formative quiz" which is optional, and doesn't count towards our grade. It helps to see what types of questions are asked, and if something's asked on the quiz that you didn't cover during the week, you know to look into it over the weekend. There are usually 10-20 questions on the midterms and finals that are taken from the formative quizzes word-for-word.

I don't know where TuWest got the idea that we don't cover the basic sciences as in-depth as other schools, but the majority of what we've covered this year has been basic sciences. Yes, we mix in some clinical stuff, but it's the underlying sciences that we're tested on. I'd say that each test covers about 30% anatomy, 30% pathology, 20% physiology, and the other 20% is a mix of the other sciences.

Pathology and radiology are both self-directed and taught. We're expected to read about path, and then we have lectures every couple weeks where the pathologists cover cases, and help answer any questions we might have. Radiology is snuck into the cases, and some of it we're expected to figure out on our own, then we have radiology lectures every block, and we're given DVDs with really helpful radiology info and case studies. 4th year, we have the option of doing a radiology/ultrasonography rotation that's supposed to be pretty amazing.

I can't even begin to compare and contrast the two schools, as I didn't even look into applying to Davis, since requiring a full year of organic chemistry was the first criteria I used to weed out schools. However, the vet I worked for before getting into school was an '84 Davis grad, and she absolutely loved it.

For Western, here's a couple of the pros and cons that I can think of:

Pros:
The subjects get integrated together, and you tend to learn by systems, instead of having subjects seperated out and taught separately.
Not having to sit through lectures is wonderful.
You get to be a part of something new and exciting.
There are days when you don't have to be to class until 1pm. As a night owl, I appreciate the chance to sleep in.
As long as you cover the basics, you can dive deeper into subjects that really interest you.
With the exception of some of the master's students on campus, pretty much any student you bump into will be a doctor of something. No undergrads to deal with.
The faculty is seriously amazing.

Cons:
Some subjects suck to teach to yourself. I really wish somebody would go through histo for us. I've resorted to youtube videos.
IPE - we have to take this "interprofessional education" class, where we have to basically "PBL" a case with students from all the other medical professionals. It's a huge waste of time.
You change PBL groups every 8 weeks. Sometimes you get an awesome one, and sometimes you get a dud. There's nothing you can do except for just toughing it out.
The first test is insanely stressful, because you don't know what to expect. Once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad.
It's expensive. The types of jobs I'll be willing to accept after I graduate will probably be influenced by my debt.

Uhmm well I got it from other students @ Western who said that PBL VS Traditional does not go as deep into VBS and I think I could agree with that considering there are no lectures: For example one of my friends who is a 2nd yr @ Western told me personally when she had an immuno case she learned all t he receptor and signals involved and was not tested on any of it . So inturn she started sticking to the learning issues which were not ALWAYS as indepth . She is WCVM 2013 😳