What are considered above average EC?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
400 Hrs ED Volunteering (EMT-B)
50 Hrs Misc. Volunteering (marathons, habitat for humanity)
2 years full time resarch. (1 but hopefully 2 publications, the second being first author)
2 years full time cardiographic technician/supervisor (patient and physician contact)
NO SHADOWING, but close family friend DO graduate from my in-state, regionally biased school writing me a letter

is the lack of shadowing a killer? I'm still working on getting at least some experience to hopefully have some by the time (fingers crossed) i am granted an interview somewhere.

Nah, I don't it is. Your research and technician experience carry more weight than shadowing would in my opinion. One of the reasons I am shadowing DOs is I am hoping that it will give me an edge over other Canadians applying because there are so few DOs in my region. Have you tried asking your family friend if you can shadow them?
 
my friend had absolutely no research and minimal volunteering, like maybe 50 hours or less total lol and she still got in after applying late, she had an MD gpa though. Your ECs look great to me, and yes i'd count that as leadership.

Thanks for the response drshark, appreaciate it. 👍
 
Nah, I don't it is. Your research and technician experience carry more weight than shadowing would in my opinion. One of the reasons I am shadowing DOs is I am hoping that it will give me an edge over other Canadians applying because there are so few DOs in my region. Have you tried asking your family friend if you can shadow them?

I can but she is almost 2 hours away which, I mean yes, it is possible, but having worked alongside physicians I would like something closer as I already have a pretty good idea of what a gp and cardiologist day to day is.
 
I think my ECs are above average, but not 1%

-Total of 10k clinical/field medical hours in the Navy
-500 volunteer clinic hours in war torn country
-Red Cross instructor for 2 years
-200 hours homeless rehabilitation center
-700 Shadowing hours
-1000 hours Leadership experience in war
 
Some kind of leadership (can include job as manager)


This begs the question: how much falls under the umbrella of leadership? Can I double running a study under leadership? Or being a research assistant at a hospital who gets to order around RNs (within the parameters of the study protocol, of course)?

Otherwise, I have no leadership. Although, I'm sure there are applicants with similar ECs who could/would/will cleverly spin such a situation to appear to include leadership.
 
I am hoping start my own small business would count as leadership
 
Not 1%? Pretty damn close lol. Research would put you there

Maybe. UG research seems to be more of a check mark in my opinion. I would think 1% of ECs would be something like being a CEO of a multi-million $ company or being a NP/PA.
 
This begs the question: how much falls under the umbrella of leadership? Can I double running a study under leadership? Or being a research assistant at a hospital who gets to order around RNs (within the parameters of the study protocol, of course)?

Otherwise, I have no leadership. Although, I'm sure there are applicants with similar ECs who could/would/will cleverly spin such a situation to appear to include leadership.
Can't double dip.
 
Can't double dip.

AACOMAS doesn't make you list them as Volunteer/Leadership/Teaching categories. If you talk about your experience, how can't you double dip into leadership with significant commitments?
 
Can't double dip.

Damn.

AACOMAS doesn't make you list them as Volunteer/Leadership/Teaching categories. If you talk about your experience, how can't you double dip into leadership with significant commitments?

Damn recanted. I like this idea. But still, I can't imagine they're not specifically looking for something more along the lines of being president of a club or heading up a community project. I guess I'll just start a club... a club for those who lack leadership experience.
 
Damn recanted. I like this idea. But still, I can't imagine they're not specifically looking for something more along the lines of being president of a club or heading up a community project. I guess I'll just start a club... a club for those who lack leadership experience.

I think the idea people have about leadership is wrong. It isn't about being president, owner, or boss of someone or something. The schools are looking for those that demonstrate an ability to lead. If you're Financial Secretary of a club, you're still gaining leadership experience.

When I look at my leadership experiences, they were things I was very passionate about. I was very dedicated and involved, and that eventually turned into "leadership" positions.

Lieutenant Firefighter/Rescuer/EMT (5 years of being heavily involved in emergency services)
Fire Board Director (Elected Position, gained support because of the success I had in committees I was involved in (or chaired))
Admin for a Top 15 forum (Took years of dedication and spearheading new operation procedures for the website, as well as being involved in the community it serves[sports related])

None of those "leadership opportunities" really came easy. And as you can see it is nearly impossible for me to not "double dip" with these experiences alone.
 
Last edited:
I think the idea people have about leadership is wrong. It isn't about being president, owner, or boss of someone or something. The schools are looking for those that demonstrate an ability to lead. If you're Financial Secretary of a club, you're still gaining leadership experience.

When I look at my leadership experiences, they were things I was very passionate about. I was very dedicated and involved, and that eventually turned into "leadership" positions.

Lieutenant Firefighter/Rescuer/EMT (5 years of being heavily involved in emergency services)
Fire Board Director (Elected Position, gained support because of the success I had in committees I was involved in (or chaired))
Admin for a Top 15 forum (Took years of dedication and spearheading new operation procedures for the website, as well as being involved in the community it serves[sports related])

None of those "leadership opportunities" really came easy. And as you can see it is nearly impossible for me to "double dip" with these experiences alone.


+1. My "leadership" include being a small group leader in a few volunteer projects and a trainer in another volunteer area.
 
Agreed. 100 is about what's thrown around as being average.

My version of the averages in each are:

100 Clinical Volunteering (over a year period)
40 Shadowing Physicians (at least 1 primary care)
1 or 2 research experiences (so like a summer or two)
50 Non-Clinical Volunteering
Some kind of leadership (can include job as manager)

Many people don't even have all these things. People here exaggerate what one needs to get into medical school. Go to the MSAR and see that there's not a single school that has 100% volunteering/research/etc. Most schools have about 85% clinical volunteering with about 65% research/non-clinical.

I have a few questions.
By end of this summer, I will have 300 hours of clinical volunteering (40 hours at an office, 120 hours at a hospital, and 130-140 hours as an EMT/paramedic on site assistant). I did the 40 hours right before college started (after senior year summer) and the other ~250 hours this summer due to time. I go to a quarter system school and have only had time to continuously do research for 1.5 years. Is it bad that I did all my volunteering technically within two summers? (I did volunteering at the office that whole summer, 3 months. I did volunteering at the hospital in one month. I did volunteering on the EMT/paramedic trucks for two months)

I have 60 hours of shadowing with an internist. 40 hours with a cardiologist. Plan on getting another 50 with 1 or 2 DOs.

Non clinical volunteering, I'm part of a program where I will have 20 hours by graduation (science fairs teaching kids about cool experiments). What would you recommend doing for non clinical volunteering?

I sadly do not have any leadership and I don't see myself getting one to be honest. I'm just far too busy this year (junior year). I am leaning towards taking a gap year.
Current stats: 3.3cgpa/3.4sgpa/MCAT (to be taken spring this year).

My ECs specifically:

Summer before freshman year - 60 hours of shadowing, 40 hours of volunteering (mostly filing, helping with organizing patient charts at an office).
Freshman year- joined research 2nd half of the year.
Freshman year summer- 40 hours of shadowing (I took it very light, I just wanted to chill with high school friends that summer. To come to think of it, that probably wasn't the smartest choice in terms of strengthening my app for med school)
Sophomore year- got inducted into a national honors fraternity, became more active in research and more active in a club that I joined (American Chemistry Society).
Sophomore year summer- 120 hours of a hospital for a month (I wasn't getting great exposure so I stopped. Also the doctor I previously shadowed the summer before knew of the program and said it's not worth staying at for more than a month), I worked on a paramedic/EMT truck for 130 hours (still in progress, I start school late September, starting to do this 18 hours a week instead of my previous 9 hours a week. Done with a lot of my summer obligations, so I can focus more on my volunteering).
Junior year plan- I plan on getting 2-3 publications, my PI has talked to me and said the project I will be working on is a topic he hopes to write a lot of papers on. His policy is as long as you helped at some point in the paper even if it is not by much, your name will be included (almost everyone gets at least 2+ publications in his lab by graduation). I do plan to stay involved with American Chemical Society and join pre-SOMA. Since pre-SOMA isn't huge at my school, I may try to see if there are leadership positions available. I will be freed up spring semester (after many many difficult courses next two terms). After my winter semester, its mostly all electives besides biochem for my last year and a half.
Junior year summer- plan is to do research at an HIV lab at a near by university back home. I have a friend who did it last year and said he could contact the PI if I'm still interested by next summer.
Senior year plan- I do plan on finding a volunteering position to do for the 9 months while I'm on campus. I do plan on going abroad on a medical mission. Was planning to this year but personal issues came up and I had to withdraw my application.
Gap year- I am taking one for sure. I feel I can strengthen my ECs a lot more senior year and during the year inbetween.

I've talked to a lot of high school friends who are pre-med and it is shocking to see a lot of them haven't even done any research/volunteering yet. I feel my ECs are average and I want to make them better so I can become a stronger applicant for osteopathic schools and the few allopathic state schools I plan to apply to (my sGPA for MD is low though 3.1-3.2, hopefully I can bring it to a 3.3-3.4 by graduation).
 
Last edited:
I have a few questions.
By end of this summer, I will have 300 hours of clinical volunteering (40 hours at an office, 120 hours at a hospital, and 130-140 hours as an EMT/paramedic on site assistant). I did the 40 hours right before college started (after senior year summer) and the other ~250 hours this summer due to time. I go to a quarter system school and have only had time to continuously do research for 1.5 years. Is it bad that I did all my volunteering technically within two summers? (I did volunteering at the office that whole summer, 3 months. I did volunteering at the hospital in one month. I did volunteering on the EMT/paramedic trucks for two months)

I have 60 hours of shadowing with an internist. 40 hours with a cardiologist. Plan on getting another 50 with 1 or 2 DOs.

Non clinical volunteering, I'm part of a program where I will have 20 hours by graduation (science fairs teaching kids about cool experiments). What would you recommend doing for non clinical volunteering?

I sadly do not have any leadership and I don't see myself getting one to be honest. I'm just far too busy this year (junior year). I am leaning towards taking a gap year.
Current stats: 3.3cgpa/3.4sgpa/MCAT (to be taken spring this year).

My ECs specifically:

Summer before freshman year - 60 hours of shadowing, 40 hours of volunteering (mostly filing, helping with organizing patient charts at an office).
Freshman year- joined research 2nd half of the year.
Freshman year summer- 40 hours of shadowing (I took it very light, I just wanted to chill with high school friends that summer. To come to think of it, that probably wasn't the smartest choice in terms of strengthening my app for med school)
Sophomore year- got inducted into a national honors fraternity, became more active in research and more active in a club that I joined (American Chemistry Society).
Sophomore year summer- 120 hours of a hospital for a month (I wasn't getting great exposure so I stopped. Also the doctor I previously shadowed the summer before knew of the program and said it's not worth staying at for more than a month), I worked on a paramedic/EMT truck for 130 hours (still in progress, I start school late September, starting to do this 18 hours a week instead of my previous 9 hours a week. Done with a lot of my summer obligations, so I can focus more on my volunteering).
Junior year plan- I plan on getting 2-3 publications, my PI has talked to me and said the project I will be working on is a topic he hopes to write a lot of papers on. His policy is as long as you helped at some point in the paper even if it is not by much, your name will be included (almost everyone gets at least 2+ publications in his lab by graduation). I do plan to stay involved with American Chemical Society and join pre-SOMA. Since pre-SOMA isn't huge at my school, I may try to see if there are leadership positions available. I will be freed up spring semester (after many many difficult courses next two terms). After my winter semester, its mostly all electives besides biochem for my last year and a half.
Junior year summer- plan is to do research at an HIV lab at a near by university back home. I have a friend who did it last year and said he could contact the PI if I'm still interested by next summer.
Senior year plan- I do plan on finding a volunteering position to do for the 9 months while I'm on campus. I do plan on going abroad on a medical mission. Was planning to this year but personal issues came up and I had to withdraw my application.
Gap year- I am taking one for sure. I feel I can strengthen my ECs a lot more senior year and during the year inbetween.

I've talked to a lot of high school friends who are pre-med and it is shocking to see a lot of them haven't even done any research/volunteering yet. I feel my ECs are average and I want to make them better so I can become a stronger applicant for osteopathic schools and the few allopathic state schools I plan to apply to (my sGPA for MD is low though 3.1-3.2, hopefully I can bring it to a 3.3-3.4 by graduation).

I would say don't worry about the medical mission unless its longer than a couple of weeks. Its surprisingly common and doesn't have much of an impact with the admissions committee (there was a forum about it somewhere around here). Especially don't do it if its going to cost you a lot of money.

And if you do go on one for a week don't begin your personal statement with "As I traveled down the dirt road in the village holding the child's hand I knew then that medicine was my calling". Apparently admissions people detest that (just going off of what I have read)
 
I would say don't worry about the medical mission unless its longer than a couple of weeks. Its surprisingly common and doesn't have much of an impact with the admissions committee (there was a forum about it somewhere around here). Especially don't do it if its going to cost you a lot of money.

And if you do go on one for a week don't begin your personal statement with "As I traveled down the dirt road in the village holding the child's hand I knew then that medicine was my calling". Apparently admissions people detest that (just going off of what I have read)

Thanks for the insight. I believe the one at my school is less than two weeks and quite expensive 👍. How would you say my ECs are looking so far? Any advice would be appreciated. I do plan on finding a volunteer at school that I can volunteer 3-4 hours a week for my last two years of college (hopefully I can find on in walking distance or a 5 minute train ride from my university). This summer I've added on shadowing a DO cardiologist for 20-40 hours along (this is also close to the office I used to file/fax/do errands for, I might contact them again to see if I can work for two-three weeks again). This along with about ~75 more hours as an EMT/paramedic on site assistant (which will add up to the 130 hours I expect by the end of this summer).
 
Top