What are considered above average EC?

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selling your soul to americorps for 2 years

played in the NFL for 3 years

Started a computer company, sold for millions
 
Holy FranZ said:
selling your soul to americorps for 2 years

played in the NFL for 3 years

Started a computer company, sold for millions
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How about the Red Cross for the last 6? 😛
 
Just in my opinion:

research with posters (+1), oral presentations or publications (+2)

long-term community service or volunteer commitment, say 4 years and/or 750+ hours

direct patient contact upwards of 500-1000 hours

Idk, lots of other stellar stuff 🙂
 
gumbyj said:
Just in my opinion:

research with posters (+1), oral presentations or publications (+2)

long-term community service or volunteer commitment, say 4 years and/or 750+ hours

direct patient contact upwards of 500-1000 hours

Idk, lots of other stellar stuff 🙂
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😕 I hope that's considered way above average!
 
gumbyj said:
Just in my opinion:

research with posters (+1), oral presentations or publications (+2)

long-term community service or volunteer commitment, say 4 years and/or 750+ hours

direct patient contact upwards of 500-1000 hours

Idk, lots of other stellar stuff 🙂
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That's not above average, that's top 1% of applicant EC's.
The average applicant has around 100 hours volunteering under their belt. The ideal is to have around 200-300 spread between two years and two to three organizations.
 
serenade said:
That's not above average, that's top 1% of applicant EC's.
The average applicant has around 100 hours volunteering under their belt. The ideal is to have around 200-300 spread between two years and two to three organizations.
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This is where I'm hoping my ECs make up for my mediocre gpa. I've got more than that for PT contact (non trad) as well as volunteer! Nothing published though, no time during undergrad
 
drshark said:
I have done 100 hours of voluntary clinical research with direct contact with patients and doctors so far at a top rated hospital, along with 5 years and 400+ hours volunteering at an elementary school, i hold a leadership position at a club at my school, and I am president of an outreach foundation aimed at helping immigrants. along with playing music and doing sports, just wondering is that average or above? My gpa is ehh so I'm hoping my EC might give me a few looks
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This is probably average, but good average. It looks well-balanced, so you'll be fine. 🙂
 
One of the most important things that I learned in the application process was to ignore most of this type of information on SDN. The only people that could give you an accurate idea of the "average" EC load per applicant is an admissions counselor with a few years of experience. This thread is listed under "pre-med". Please realize that 95% of the people who post on this website in the pre-med categories are also pre-med students who have NO CLUE what they are talking about.


It is even worse in the "what are my chances?" category. please, for the sake of your own sanity, take it all with a grain of salt.
 
serenade said:
That's not above average, that's top 1% of applicant EC's.
The average applicant has around 100 hours volunteering under their belt. The ideal is to have around 200-300 spread between two years and two to three organizations.
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Agreed. 100 is about what's thrown around as being average.

My version of the averages in each are:

100 Clinical Volunteering (over a year period)
40 Shadowing Physicians (at least 1 primary care)
1 or 2 research experiences (so like a summer or two)
50 Non-Clinical Volunteering
Some kind of leadership (can include job as manager)

Many people don't even have all these things. People here exaggerate what one needs to get into medical school. Go to the MSAR and see that there's not a single school that has 100% volunteering/research/etc. Most schools have about 85% clinical volunteering with about 65% research/non-clinical.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Agreed. 100 is about what's thrown around as being average.

My version of the averages in each are:

100 Clinical Volunteering (over a year period)
40 Shadowing Physicians (at least 1 primary care)
1 or 2 research experiences (so like a summer or two)
50 Non-Clinical Volunteering
Some kind of leadership (can include job as manager)

Many people don't even have all these things. People here exaggerate what one needs to get into medical school. Go to the MSAR and see that there's not a single school that has 100% volunteering/research/etc. Most schools have about 85% clinical volunteering with about 65% research/non-clinical.
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I think 100 hours of non-clinical and 10 hours of shadowing X 2 doctors is fine. Too much shadowing isn't going to be too helpful.
But yah, honestly EC's are easy to pick up on and can really help your application.
 
serenade said:
That's not above average, that's top 1% of applicant EC's.
The average applicant has around 100 hours volunteering under their belt. The ideal is to have around 200-300 spread between two years and two to three organizations.
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Really? I knew my ECs were above average, but I didn't know they were way above average..

Goro said:
Above avg for me would be Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity. Going on a real medical mission (as opposed to "medical tourism").
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ADCOMs here have said that medical mission trips aren't as spectacular as pre-meds think they are. Also many universities have Habitat for Humanity programs so I don't think they're that special either.


serenade said:
I think 100 hours of non-clinical and 10 hours of shadowing X 2 doctors is fine. Too much shadowing isn't going to be too helpful.
But yah, honestly EC's are easy to pick up on and can really help your application.
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I figured 100+ hours of shadowing was average. If the point of shadowing is to get a good feel for the profession, how can we accomplish that in 10-20 hours? Everything is interesting and fun for the first 10 hours..
 
MedPR said:
I figured 100+ hours of shadowing was average. If the point of shadowing is to get a good feel for the profession, how can we accomplish that in 10-20 hours? Everything is interesting and fun for the first 10 hours..
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Not true! I shadowed a podiatrist 2 times .... oh the things I saw in my 10 hours. Unknowingly ripping hand made antibiotic bead balls out of this guys seemingly closed foot wound... he just laughed as I watched in awe!
 
nicolemsm said:
Not true! I shadowed a podiatrist 2 times .... oh the things I saw in my 10 hours. Unknowingly ripping hand made antibiotic bead balls out of this guys seemingly closed foot wound... he just laughed as I watched in awe!
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Exactly. You saw tons of interesting stuff in 10 hours, but didn't get a feel for the monotony that is the rest of his job. Shadowing for 10 hours to get an idea of the profession is like eating at mcdonalds to get an idea of what beef tastes like.
 
From most places I have heard they emphasize quality over quantity. Hence, a large number of volunteer hrs are more likely to translate into a meaningful experience that you can relate to adcoms, if not its not likely going to help you stand out. If you do have. a shorter term volunteer experience, you need to relate to how. that was meaningful to your development as a future physician.
 
I hope so..I shadowed a primary care physican for like 40 hours and I was done..... She was great and tried to let me see interesting cases but she also had to split my time with a medical school doing his rotations.......... But she did a lot of paperwork......
 
MedPR said:
ADCOMs here have said that medical mission trips aren't as spectacular as pre-meds think they are. Also many universities have Habitat for Humanity programs so I don't think they're that special either.
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Goro is an ADCOM, and I think that's why he specified Medical Mission as opposed to Medical Tourism, which is what most of those 1 or 2 week programs are.
 
Regarding Medical "tourism": what if you did participate in such an exploit, and it influenced you (in a unique/noteworthy way) to pursue subsequent endeavors which have helped to affirm medicine as a fitting career or which strengthen your talents and abilities to contribute to the medical community? I know this is vague, but I would prefer not to divulge too much information on said "medical tourism" in which I participated.
 
MedPR said:
Exactly. You saw tons of interesting stuff in 10 hours, but didn't get a feel for the monotony that is the rest of his job. Shadowing for 10 hours to get an idea of the profession is like eating at mcdonalds to get an idea of what beef tastes like.
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10-20 hours because most doctors don't want you in their business for 100 hours, i.e 2-3 months. Shadowing should be brief and introductory and result in you learning the basic details of the physicians work along with the physician learning a few basic details about you so that he can write you a satisfactory letter. Not to mention plenty of people have trouble finding a doctor to shadow to begin with.
 
serenade said:
10-20 hours because most doctors don't want you in their business for 100 hours, i.e 2-3 months. Shadowing should be brief and introductory and result in you learning the basic details of the physicians work along with the physician learning a few basic details about you so that he can write you a satisfactory letter. Not to mention plenty of people have trouble finding a doctor to shadow to begin with.
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It's about selling yourself. A doctor I wanted to shadow said he could host me for observations for a day or two, and I told him that although I am genuinely interested in his subspecialty, observing for only a few days would not be taken by a medical school admissions committee, as a serious effort to immerse myself in the clinical environment. I explained that I would benefit more from a longitudinal preceptorship on his clinical service - Now I get to shadow them 3 hours a week, every week. Posit your needs in a way that show you are not merely "jumping through a hoop" but rather, trying to gain new windows into the patient-physician relationship and the nature of the job, as well as the intricacies of their specialty/subspecialty. A little persistence can go a long way.
 
StarlingForce1 said:
It's about selling yourself. A doctor I wanted to shadow said he could host me for observations for a day or two, and I told him that although I am genuinely interested in his subspecialty, observing for only a few days would not be taken by a medical school admissions committee, as a serious effort to immerse myself in the clinical environment. I explained that I would benefit more from a longitudinal preceptorship on his clinical service - Now I get to shadow them 3 hours a week, every week. Posit your needs in a way that show you are not merely "jumping through a hoop" but rather, trying to gain new windows into the patient-physician relationship and the nature of the job, as well as the intricacies of their specialty/subspecialty. A little persistence can go a long way.
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Eh, but even then such extensive shadowing is not a requirement even at LizzyM's Ivy League school. Working with patients themselves is a more important thing.
 
serenade said:
Eh, but even then such extensive shadowing is not a requirement even at LizzyM's Ivy League school. Working with patients themselves is a more important thing.
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So, my approach, is, spend a lot of time shadowing a doctor- ask questions, but not the kind you could easily google and answer for yourself. Show the doctor you are shadowing, that you are actively engaged in the intellectual elements, so that they may speak to your clinical potential in a LOR. Also, keep the doctor posted about the other things you are doing to immerse yourself in the medical/clinical environment, like your clinical volunteering, for example. I am certain that having someone who has walked the long path to become a physician, is well poised to identify that you have what it takes to make it not only in medical school, but in medicine. What evidence do they have of this? The mind-probing questions you ask, and your involvement in the community. I did not mean that a lot of shadowing outweighs a lack of demonstrated altruism and service to others, but I think the two, if you have them in spades, are a winning combination.
 
serenade said:
10-20 hours because most doctors don't want you in their business for 100 hours, i.e 2-3 months. Shadowing should be brief and introductory and result in you learning the basic details of the physicians work along with the physician learning a few basic details about you so that he can write you a satisfactory letter. Not to mention plenty of people have trouble finding a doctor to shadow to begin with.
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That's exactly what the physicians I've shadowed expressed. One doctor is a pioneer in his field here in AZ and told me straight up the first time I shadowed (without me asking of course) "I'll write you a great letter, you don't need to shadow me a ton, maybe once a month just so I can get to know you and really write you a nice letter" He appreciated the fact I wanted to shadow him and truly showed initiative and interest (cold call -- really e-mail-- contacting him) but didn't want my shadowing to be a burden or too intrusive.




StarlingForce1 said:
It's about selling yourself. A doctor I wanted to shadow said he could host me for observations for a day or two, and I told him that although I am genuinely interested in his subspecialty, observing for only a few days would not be taken by a medical school admissions committee, as a serious effort to immerse myself in the clinical environment. I explained that I would benefit more from a longitudinal preceptorship on his clinical service - Now I get to shadow them 3 hours a week, every week. Posit your needs in a way that show you are not merely "jumping through a hoop" but rather, trying to gain new windows into the patient-physician relationship and the nature of the job, as well as the intricacies of their specialty/subspecialty. A little persistence can go a long way.
Click to expand...
👍 truth. Same thing in my experience, I persisted and told docs same thing. I'm doing clinical research now with one physician because he sees my true desire and interest for the field.
 
StarlingForce1 said:
Regarding Medical "tourism": what if you did participate in such an exploit, and it influenced you (in a unique/noteworthy way) to pursue subsequent endeavors which have helped to affirm medicine as a fitting career or which strengthen your talents and abilities to contribute to the medical community? I know this is vague, but I would prefer not to divulge too much information on said "medical tourism" in which I participated.
Click to expand...
I think what was meant in the sentence is that it doesn't create an above average EC experience, but it is not meant to imply it will be negative in any way.
 
My EC's are probably thinner than most, but I think a lot of it has to do with how you present it. I don't have a lot of EC's, but the ones I have had are precious to me, and I can genuinely say that they have solidified my desire to become a doctor.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Goro is an ADCOM, and I think that's why he specified Medical Mission as opposed to Medical Tourism, which is what most of those 1 or 2 week programs are.
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Well now I just look silly 😳.

serenade said:
10-20 hours because most doctors don't want you in their business for 100 hours, i.e 2-3 months. Shadowing should be brief and introductory and result in you learning the basic details of the physicians work along with the physician learning a few basic details about you so that he can write you a satisfactory letter. Not to mention plenty of people have trouble finding a doctor to shadow to begin with.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but I wasn't necessarily thinking 100 hours with the same physician, but perhaps 2-3 days with several doctors totaling 100 or so hours.
 
MedPR said:
Really? I knew my ECs were above average, but I didn't know they were way above average..
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Me too 😕

So you are saying I am in the top 1-2% of applicants for ECs... No way.
 
Who here could possibly know what average is? You see so many mcat scores in the 30's on this forum even though that is top percentile. It seems to be average but it is not.
 
chiddler said:
Who here could possibly know what average is? You see so many mcat scores in the 30's on this forum even though that is top percentile. It seems to be average but it is not.
Click to expand...

Isn't 31 the average matriculant score? I think the average of all test takers is something like 25 though.
 
My EC's So far are

5 years with Relay for Life (will be on the counties executive committee next year)
9000 hours of Pt Care as an EMT
about 500 hours stalking the docs at my local ER
and 150 hours spent with the DO who owns the ER group of MDs at my local ER
 
Wagz said:
My EC's So far are

5 years with Relay for Life (will be on the counties executive committee next year)
9000 hours of Pt Care as an EMT
about 500 hours stalking the docs at my local ER
and 150 hours spent with the DO who owns the ER group of MDs at my local ER
Click to expand...

Pretty much the only thing missing is research, otherwise perfect.
 
Ok so i have 2 years research (1 poster in which I'm third author)
Only 120 hours volunteering (80 in OR, 40 in ER got to shadow DO in ER during volunteer shifts)
And some other leadership experience for 1.5 years (board member in an amazing pre-med organization)
Also worked part time throughout college for financial reasons so that's why couldn't do more stuff.

Does this seem ok. Or is it way too thin?

Also I'm Canadian, (did ug in US though), so i know they treat us harder than normal applicant.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 via tapatalk
 
Ravizzle said:
Ok so i have 2 years research (1 poster in which I'm third author)
Only 120 hours volunteering (80 in OR, 40 in ER got to shadow DO in ER during volunteer shifts)
And some other leadership experience for 1.5 years (board member in an amazing pre-med organization)
Also worked part time throughout college for financial reasons so that's why couldn't do more stuff.

Does this seem ok. Or is it way too thin?

Also I'm Canadian, (did ug in US though), so i know they treat us harder than normal applicant.

Sent from my Galaxy S2 via tapatalk
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Looks average, it'll get you through the door.
 
serenade said:
Average applicant for MD's score is a 29 though.
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Really? I'm surprised its that much higher than 25. I guess the people who are getting <25 and below are informed enough to not waste their money on applications.

Wagz said:
My EC's So far are

5 years with Relay for Life (will be on the counties executive committee next year)
9000 hours of Pt Care as an EMT
about 500 hours stalking the docs at my local ER
and 150 hours spent with the DO who owns the ER group of MDs at my local ER
Click to expand...

I think they're great ECs. The only bad thing is that you have only volunteered at one place, though I'm sure only a nit picky person would care about that.
 
Since this has become a "how are my ECs?" thread, I'll post mine for some feedback 🙂

~240 hours research (no pubs, no posters)
~560 hours shadowing (3MD, 2DO. Family, Rheum, Cardiology, Derm/Surgery, EM/IM)
~400 hours clinical volunteering (children's hospital)
~100 hours non-clinical volunteering (public health organization mainly in underserved communities)
~50 hours leadership (clinical and non-clinical)
~16 months full-time clinical work experience (clinical lab)
 
MedPR said:
Since this has become a "how are my ECs?" thread, I'll post mine for some feedback 🙂

~240 hours research (no pubs, no posters)
~560 hours shadowing (3MD, 2DO. Family, Rheum, Cardiology, Derm/Surgery, EM/IM)
~400 hours clinical volunteering (children's hospital)
~100 hours non-clinical volunteering (public health organization mainly in underserved communities)
~50 hours leadership (clinical and non-clinical)
~16 months full-time clinical work experience (clinical lab)
Click to expand...

Your EC's are to be envied, lol.
 
MedPR said:
Since this has become a "how are my ECs?" thread, I'll post mine for some feedback 🙂

~240 hours research (no pubs, no posters)
~560 hours shadowing (3MD, 2DO. Family, Rheum, Cardiology, Derm/Surgery, EM/IM)
~400 hours clinical volunteering (children's hospital)
~100 hours non-clinical volunteering (public health organization mainly in underserved communities)
~50 hours leadership (clinical and non-clinical)
~16 months full-time clinical work experience (clinical lab)
Click to expand...
Way above the average.
 
MedPR said:
Since this has become a "how are my ECs?" thread, I'll post mine for some feedback 🙂

~240 hours research (no pubs, no posters)
~560 hours shadowing (3MD, 2DO. Family, Rheum, Cardiology, Derm/Surgery, EM/IM)
~400 hours clinical volunteering (children's hospital)
~100 hours non-clinical volunteering (public health organization mainly in underserved communities)
~50 hours leadership (clinical and non-clinical)
~16 months full-time clinical work experience (clinical lab)
Click to expand...
these are great. i dont know why your posts always portray you as someone who is very nervous about the whole app. process when both your stats and ECs are above average.
 
StarlingForce1 said:
Your EC's are to be envied, lol.
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TriagePreMed said:
Way above the average.
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drshark said:
MedPR 😳 woah lol umm yea you're so not an under dog haha! You're gonna do great this cycle IMO
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Thanks! It is worth mentioning that I've been out of undergrad for two years now so I've had more time than most of the traditional students. I also don't have a family (children, spouse, etc) that I have to tend to so I also have a little more free time than many of the non-trads.

angldrps said:
these are great. i dont know why your posts always portray you as someone who is very nervous about the whole app. process when both your stats and ECs are above average.
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I tend to be pessimistic :xf:.
 
I guess I'll post my EC's as well, see what peoples thoughts are. Please note that these EC's are a mix of already accomplished and upcoming, but all are likely to be reported on AMCAS when submitting in 1 year from now:

~120 hours volunteering in an Emergency Room
~150 hours volunteering in Urgent Care Center at a cancer hospital
~50 hours shadowing an Academic Cardiologist, 3 hours/wk for one semester
~30 hours shadowing Cardiologist in a community hospital, 3 hours/wk for one summer
~120 hours shadowing Academic Neuropathologist: attended weekly department seminars/case presentations, learned some histopathology analysis, 4 hours/wk for 2 semesters

Started a club in undergrad that was concerned with cardiovascular, renal, and respiratory physiology and translational research in these areas. President of club for one year (senior year) and club is still active.

Teaching Assistant for Cell Bio and Physiology (one semester each)

20 months full time research in Neuroscience (no publications)

Vice-president of a student organization at a medical school (one year at time of submitting AMCAS)

Shadowed several CT surgeons through a shadowing program at my school - 24 hours shadowing for one week.

Graduate Research Assistant (2 semesters upon submitting AMCAS, 15 hours/week)

Let me know what you guys think!

🙂
 
I know DO schools don't focus on research as much as MD schools...but how much does having a second author publication help for DO schools?
 
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