What are my chances for ENT residency?

[ribbit247]

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Hi guys, since residency applications are coming up i'm thinking of ENT but I have very little confidence that I will get it. Any advice on improving my applications would be appreciated! Here are my stats:

Step 1: 239
Clerkship Grades: 2 honors, 2 near honors
Research: 7 publications (2 ENT related), will probably take up a few more ENT projects
LOR: Will most likely get some strong letters since I did well on my ENT rotation.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Did @failedatlife level up?

 

[Redpancreas]

Try. It’s not a hopeless cause.

 

[TypeADissection]

Apply everywhere. Consider doing an away. There's a chance. Cheers.

 

[operaman]

What clerkships were H and which HP?

Author position on papers?

How well known are your letter writers?

You’ve got a decent shot depending on your answers to the above. Your step is a tad low but not by much.

 

[Osteoth]

What clerkships were H and which HP?

Author position on papers?

How well known are your letter writers?

You’ve got a decent shot depending on your answers to the above. Your step is a tad low but not by much.

Seriously why are you so worried? Yeah your step's a little low but everything else seems alright assuming you grab a few more pubs before applications are in.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Seriously why are you so worried? Yeah your step's a little low but everything else seems alright assuming you grab a few more pubs before applications are in.

OP has7 pubs and 2 ENT related isnt that enough to show interest in the field and productivity ? How much is enough for these types of fields(I know more is better but their must bee a limit where that part of the app is covered)

 

[Osteoth]

OP has7 pubs and 2 ENT related isnt that enough to show interest in the field and productivity ? How much is enough for these types of fields(I know more is better but their must bee a limit where that part of the app is covered)

Mean number of abstracts, posters & presentations for ENT matched applicants was 8.4 in 2016. In my mind for every relatively weaker part of your application you need to compensate with a strong showing in another part. Considering that the three main parts of the application as far as I am aware are grades, research & letters, OP needs to dominate research & letters if grades are not at an adequate letter.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Mean number of abstracts, posters & presentations for ENT matched applicants was 8.4 in 2016. In my mind for every relatively weaker part of your application you need to compensate with a strong showing in another part. Considering that the three main parts of the application as far as I am aware are grades, research & letters, OP needs to dominate research & letters if grades are not at an adequate letter.

Fair enough. But I would assume 7 pubs would be alot more impressive than people with poster & presentations making up that 8.4 . So 7 pubs is already ahead of the game.

 

[DNC127]

Mean number of abstracts, posters & presentations for ENT matched applicants was 8.4 in 2016. In my mind for every relatively weaker part of your application you need to compensate with a strong showing in another part. Considering that the three main parts of the application as far as I am aware are grades, research & letters, OP needs to dominate research & letters if grades are not at an adequate letter.

8 pubs/presentations/posters really isn't that much when they all get lumped into the same category. 2-3 solid projects could conceivably get you there because they likely got presented at one or two places, and got you the pub. With 7 pubs, I would bet OP is close to 15 research experiences in this category if they are playing the game right.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Hi guys, since residency applications are coming up i'm thinking of ENT but I have very little confidence that I will get it. Any advice on improving my applications would be appreciated! Here are my stats:

Step 1: 239
Clerkship Grades: 2 honors, 2 near honors
Research: 7 publications (2 ENT related), will probably take up a few more ENT projects
LOR: Will most likely get some strong letters since I did well on my ENT rotation.

OP how the hell did you find time to pump out 7 pubs ?

 

[Chelsea FC]

8 pubs/presentations/posters really isn't that much when they all get lumped into the same category. 2-3 solid projects could conceivably get you there because they likely got presented at one or two places, and got you the pub. With 7 pubs, I would bet OP is close to 15 research experiences in this category if they are playing the game right.

dont most places restrict you from showing the same research at multiple conferences?

 

[Osteoth]

OP how the hell did you find time to pump out 7 pubs ?

Honestly its really not that bad if you time it right. Every specialty has their specialty national meeting once a year, in which every attending worth his salt wants to get out at least a couple abstracts, if not a big paper. So every attending in your department is going to need help data mining/writing papers 3-6 months before the meeting. If you work out a quid-pro where you mine one of their papers in exchange for a few abstract nominations as 3rd author or something you can get a bunch of pubs in a hurry.

dont most places restrict you from showing the same research at multiple conferences?

Yes but you just need to show the new work is a little bit different from the old in order to qualify. Aka you did a new analysis or included a few more variables.

 

[nymedstudent874]

Hi guys, since residency applications are coming up i'm thinking of ENT but I have very little confidence that I will get it. Any advice on improving my applications would be appreciated! Here are my stats:

Step 1: 239
Clerkship Grades: 2 honors, 2 near honors
Research: 7 publications (2 ENT related), will probably take up a few more ENT projects
LOR: Will most likely get some strong letters since I did well on my ENT rotation.

Impossible to say for sure until you talk to your chairman but I think you do have a shot considering ENT popularity is at an all time low. A few years ago there were ~550 applicants while this past cycle only had ~350. Do well on your aways and statistically you have a shot


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[treebeardette]

Some of the advice on this thread is why ENT has a record low number of applicants and didn't match 12 spots this year. It is not as dire as people think. ENT cares a lot about fit and hard work, so you can definitely make it with a 239 especially if your goal is just to match, not necessarily at Harvard. Check out the Otomatch Chitchat sheet for self-reported results from this year's applicants. There's a fair number of low 230's who got interviews and some reported matching (not everyone has come back to fill it out)

I think you actually have a decent shot. Sounds like you have a home program based on the OP, which is a huge advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong. They are everything to you if you're really thinking ENT. The first thing you need to do is sit down with your ENT mentor and discuss this. Your best shot of matching is at home, and you need people in your corner to talk at the ranking meeting and to pick up the phone for you when you apply.

My thoughts on your app:
- Your research is good, not great. Better if they're pubs not just posters they look a little better (they do take the time to look through your app and quality>quantity). Picking up a couple more projects sounds good if that's feasible for you.
- You should do 2 aways. Do them at places where you have a reasonable shot, but can still give you a good letter. It goes without saying that you need to rock these.
- Apply to 80-100 well-selected programs.
- Take step 2CK this summer and post a score at least in the 240s for ERAS. Do not allow your score to drop.
- Build those relationships with your department.
- Consider applying to a backup specialty and then just having a preference for ENT interviews.
- Grades - honor everything. Honoring surgery and medicine matter more than OB and fam med.

Feel free to PM me if you want. I matched ENT this year.

 

[ribbit247]

What clerkships were H and which HP?

Author position on papers?

How well known are your letter writers?

You’ve got a decent shot depending on your answers to the above. Your step is a tad low but not by much.

I got H in IM and Family, NH in Surgery and Psych

I'm first author for an ENT publication, 2nd author in a facial plastics pub, and 2+ author in the other pubs, I also have another facial plastics manuscirpt that I'm submitting soon in which I am a second author, and I have an IM research project which will be published in the summer in which I am 2nd or 3rd author (not confirmed). I have also done several posters that haven't been published in IM and Plastics.

My plan is to take on a few more ENT projects, soon and get a poster or publication done as soon as I can.

In total I have about 12 pub/posters/abstracts so far, tyring to add more.

 

[ribbit247]

OP how the hell did you find time to pump out 7 pubs ?

First two years were Pass/fail at my school, so made use of the extra time haha

 

[ribbit247]

Impossible to say for sure until you talk to your chairman but I think you do have a shot considering ENT popularity is at an all time low. A few years ago there were ~550 applicants while this past cycle only had ~350. Do well on your aways and statistically you have a shot

That's what I thought too, but those that do apply have 245+ step 1 score. But I have a asked fore a meeting with the PD at my home institution, so we'll see.

 

[ribbit247]

Some of the advice on this thread is why ENT has a record low number of applicants and didn't match 12 spots this year. It is not as dire as people think. ENT cares a lot about fit and hard work, so you can definitely make it with a 239 especially if your goal is just to match, not necessarily at Harvard. Check out the Otomatch Chitchat sheet for self-reported results from this year's applicants. There's a fair number of low 230's who got interviews and some reported matching (not everyone has come back to fill it out)

I think you actually have a decent shot. Sounds like you have a home program based on the OP, which is a huge advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong. They are everything to you if you're really thinking ENT. The first thing you need to do is sit down with your ENT mentor and discuss this. Your best shot of matching is at home, and you need people in your corner to talk at the ranking meeting and to pick up the phone for you when you apply.

My thoughts on your app:
- Your research is good, not great. Better if they're pubs not just posters they look a little better (they do take the time to look through your app and quality>quantity). Picking up a couple more projects sounds good if that's feasible for you.
- You should do 2 aways. Do them at places where you have a reasonable shot, but can still give you a good letter. It goes without saying that you need to rock these.
- Apply to 80-100 well-selected programs.
- Take step 2CK this summer and post a score at least in the 240s for ERAS. Do not allow your score to drop.
- Build those relationships with your department.
- Consider applying to a backup specialty and then just having a preference for ENT interviews.
- Grades - honor everything. Honoring surgery and medicine matter more than OB and fam med.

Feel free to PM me if you want. I matched ENT this year.

Thanks for the advice!

I do have a home based program which is why I'm seriously considering it. Definitely not aiming for top progams, but I still want to go somehwere decent if that's possible. I'm aiming for 255/260 on Step 2 this summer, I have already started to study.
But definitly trying to do electives and what not with my department.
Would a Step 2 score of 255+ make up for the low step 1?

 

[operaman]

I got H in IM and Family, NH in Surgery and Psych

I'm first author for an ENT publication, 2nd author in a facial plastics pub, and 2+ author in the other pubs, I also have another facial plastics manuscirpt that I'm submitting soon in which I am a second author, and I have an IM research project which will be published in the summer in which I am 2nd or 3rd author (not confirmed). I have also done several posters that haven't been published in IM and Plastics.

My plan is to take on a few more ENT projects, soon and get a poster or publication done as soon as I can.

In total I have about 12 pub/posters/abstracts so far, tyring to add more.

Ok you're in pretty good shape actually! I don't know what "near-honors" is so I'm interpreting that as a HP. Hopefully your surgery comments are good; that's a tough clerkship so as long as your comments are strong and maybe you just barely missed the honors cutoff, not too big a deal. You will also hopefully finish strong with more honors in OBGYN and Peds.

Your research is solid but keep pushing to get more stuff submitted so it beefs up the CV.

I don't think your step 1 score is that bad, though it may cost you a small handful of interviews. Honestly, your letters and research will be a much more powerful driver of how well you do. Remember that there's no difference statistically between a 239 and a 250 (according to the NBME publications you can find on their website). Obviously people react to those scores differently, but in the end I think we all know they aren't all that different.

A strong performance on Step 2 would certainly be a plus. You are aided in this by the fact that the 3-digit scales for steps 1 and 2ck are completely unrelated, but few people know this. If you score in the exact same percentile as you did on step 1, you would get ~255 on step 2ck. With a little extra effort you should be able to nudge that into the 260s which would have some nice curb appeal.

 

[treebeardette]

Agree with @operaman above, except that I'm slightly less optimistic about the possibility of getting a 260+ on Step 2. In general people do better on Step 2, but that's a pretty big leap unless there were special circumstances for step 1.

I'm aiming for 255/260 on Step 2 this summer, I have already started to study.
But definitly trying to do electives and what not with my department.
Would a Step 2 score of 255+ make up for the low step 1?

I don't know about making up for step 1, but it would certainly help. Unfortunately, ENT is still very focused on Step 1>Step 2, and seems to be behind the trend compared to other specialties in that regard (at least in my experience). You will likely get filtered out of top programs like Mass Eye and Ear, but I think most programs truly do review holistically and will give you a chance. You have strong research and your grades are ok. I think you will do well if you apply broadly and do well on your aways. Put a lot of effort into networking if you haven't already.

 

[ribbit247]

Agree with @operaman above, except that I'm slightly less optimistic about the possibility of getting a 260+ on Step 2. In general people do better on Step 2, but that's a pretty big leap unless there were special circumstances for step 1.



I don't know about making up for step 1, but it would certainly help. Unfortunately, ENT is still very focused on Step 1>Step 2, and seems to be behind the trend compared to other specialties in that regard (at least in my experience). You will likely get filtered out of top programs like Mass Eye and Ear, but I think most programs truly do review holistically and will give you a chance. You have strong research and your grades are ok. I think you will do well if you apply broadly and do well on your aways. Put a lot of effort into networking if you haven't already.

Yes definitely not aiming for Mass, or any of the top programs.

By networking, is it basically just get to know the department really well? Or is it to know people who are prominent in the ENT field who can speak on your behalf?

 

[ribbit247]

Also, I much as I love ENT, I am being realistic and I do have a back up. And I plan on dual applying with IM. I know its not a surgery field, but I just did not enjoy my general surgery rotation, and I just can't imagine by self doing 5 years of it. And I really enjoyed my IM rotation.
Would that hurt my chances? If someone asks me what I will do if I don't get ENT, and I don't say anything related to surgery, will they think I'm not serious enough, or interesed enough in ENT? And I know some people take a year off and do research and try again but I actually can't do that because of financial reasons. So if I say I would do IM if I don't get ENT will that put me at a disadvantage?

 

[treebeardette]

Also, I much as I love ENT, I am being realistic and I do have a back up. And I plan on dual applying with IM. I know its not a surgery field, but I just did not enjoy my general surgery rotation, and I just can't imagine by self doing 5 years of it. And I really enjoyed my IM rotation.
Would that hurt my chances? If someone asks me what I will do if I don't get ENT, and I don't say anything related to surgery, will they think I'm not serious enough, or interesed enough in ENT? And I know some people take a year off and do research and try again but I actually can't do that because of financial reasons. So if I say I would do IM if I don't get ENT will that put me at a disadvantage?

I was never asked what I would do if not ENT on an interview. They understand it's competitive and I can't imagine anyone on the ENT side holding it against you if you dual apply. They know you're dedicated from your other activities, they would just see it as you being realistic and pragmatic. They know they're your first choice. IM on the other hand... they will know and nobody likes to be sloppy seconds. I also hated my gen surg rotation, so I guess my answer would have been peds or anesthesia (which is a common backup for ENT), but I didn't dual apply so it wasn't a strong consideration for me. I don't think your feelings are abnormal. We are the most mediciney of the surgical subspecialties, so it's not unreasonable for you to prefer IM over gen surg. For the record, you're not obligated to tell anyone that you're dual applying, especially if you keep the two applications very separate and only apply to IM programs that are not at the same institution as your ENT apps.

By networking, is it basically just get to know the department really well? Or is it to know people who are prominent in the ENT field who can speak on your behalf?

Both, but especially the latter. Try to get in with at least 1 or 2 of the big names in your department. Your PD is a good start, but usually they're younger and maybe not that prominent (depends on the program). This is a small field that relies on word of mouth. The older, more established faculty will know people everywhere, and they all talk to each other. Often at an interview, they would bring up having spoken to my chair about me (my chair was my mentor), or they would ask me who I knew, or they would straight up list off some of the older well-known faculty and ask who could vouch for me.

 

[operaman]

Also, I much as I love ENT, I am being realistic and I do have a back up. And I plan on dual applying with IM. I know its not a surgery field, but I just did not enjoy my general surgery rotation, and I just can't imagine by self doing 5 years of it. And I really enjoyed my IM rotation.
Would that hurt my chances? If someone asks me what I will do if I don't get ENT, and I don't say anything related to surgery, will they think I'm not serious enough, or interesed enough in ENT? And I know some people take a year off and do research and try again but I actually can't do that because of financial reasons. So if I say I would do IM if I don't get ENT will that put me at a disadvantage?

Yes. Don’t tell anyone that’s your backup. Don’t mention disliking general surgery either as that can be misinterpreted. ENT is very OR heavy in training and the busy head and neck services can feel a lot like general surgery, so I would personally ding someone for that.

I think the only safe answers for your backup plan would be doing a prelim and reapplying or taking a research year. Then another surgical field or anesthesia as alternative field.

 

[treebeardette]

Don’t mention disliking general surgery either as that can be misinterpreted. ENT is very OR heavy in training and the busy head and neck services can feel a lot like general surgery, so I would personally ding someone for that.

I would argue it depends on why you hated gen surg. For me, it wasn't the OR that was the turnoff, it was the personalities. Obviously if you can live through your subI and still love ENT, then you can probably handle a 14 hour Head and Neck OR extravaganza. At least in my experience, ENTs and general surgeons are completely different cultures and temperaments, a lot of applicants (including myself) HATED our general surgery experiences.

But I agree with the sentiment of not just coming out and saying you hated general surgery without context. That's actually good advice across the board. As a good med student, you still love everything, even if you hated it.

 

[ribbit247]

I was never asked what I would do if not ENT on an interview. They understand it's competitive and I can't imagine anyone on the ENT side holding it against you if you dual apply. They know you're dedicated from your other activities, they would just see it as you being realistic and pragmatic. They know they're your first choice. IM on the other hand... they will know and nobody likes to be sloppy seconds. I also hated my gen surg rotation, so I guess my answer would have been peds or anesthesia (which is a common backup for ENT), but I didn't dual apply so it wasn't a strong consideration for me. I don't think your feelings are abnormal. We are the most mediciney of the surgical subspecialties, so it's not unreasonable for you to prefer IM over gen surg. For the record, you're not obligated to tell anyone that you're dual applying, especially if you keep the two applications very separate and only apply to IM programs that are not at the same institution as your ENT apps.


Both, but especially the latter. Try to get in with at least 1 or 2 of the big names in your department. Your PD is a good start, but usually they're younger and maybe not that prominent (depends on the program). This is a small field that relies on word of mouth. The older, more established faculty will know people everywhere, and they all talk to each other. Often at an interview, they would bring up having spoken to my chair about me (my chair was my mentor), or they would ask me who I knew, or they would straight up list off some of the older well-known faculty and ask who could vouch for me.

Wow I did not know that they might ask that. Definitely need to start working with the faculty then. I actually got along really well with the microvascualr surgeons at my department, but they are kind of young, only been there for 5 years or so. They hang out with the residents a lot and are really fun. So I want to do some electives with them. But there are a few older, more established surgeons that I have never worked with. So just do several electives to cover all of them I guess.

I actually really like the IM progam at my school. So if I apply to IM and ENT at my school, they will definitely talk huh? That's unfortunate. But I have more options with IM so that shouldn't be a big problem.

 

[ribbit247]

Yes. Don’t tell anyone that’s your backup. Don’t mention disliking general surgery either as that can be misinterpreted. ENT is very OR heavy in training and the busy head and neck services can feel a lot like general surgery, so I would personally ding someone for that.

I think the only safe answers for your backup plan would be doing a prelim and reapplying or taking a research year. Then another surgical field or anesthesia as alternative field.

My sentiments about Gen Surg are similar to treebeardette's. I actually liked the cases. I just didn't get along with any of the residents, except for one. One resident actually said how much she hated gen surg, and really discouraged me from going into gen surg unless I hate everything else. That's where I was coming from.

As for saying IM as a back up, I actually still want to do procedures if I go into IM, so I would have to specialize into GI or cards (GI for me). I enjoyed my IM exprience but I realized I really love procedures and working with my hands (hence why I chose s urgery first), so is it bad to say I would go into IM and specialize into a procedural field or just stick with saying that I would do a prelim year?

 

[treebeardette]

I actually really like the IM progam at my school. So if I apply to IM and ENT at my school, they will definitely talk huh? That's unfortunate. But I have more options with IM so that shouldn't be a big problem.

Depends if they're buddies. If you want to be absolutely safe in dual applying, yes, there's a possibility of them talking. But in reality, IM and ENT aren't comparing applicants much, so I doubt it would come up. They're not spending their precious free time cross-referencing lists. But it's possible they find out. Probably not a major issue either way.

 

[operaman]

I would argue it depends on why you hated gen surg. For me, it wasn't the OR that was the turnoff, it was the personalities. Obviously if you can live through your subI and still love ENT, then you can probably handle a 14 hour Head and Neck experience. At least in my experience, ENTs and general surgeons are completely different cultures and temperaments, a lot of applicants (including myself) HATED our general surgery experiences.

But I agree with the sentiment of not just coming out and saying you hated general surgery without context. That's actually good advice across the board. As a good med student, you still love everything, even if you hated it.

Exactly. No i agree on the personality difference. The way I put it when asked was something like “I really liked general surgery, the big cases, the critical care component, but I just felt like I didn’t quite fit as well as I did on ent.”

I think we all know the gen surf experience can vary significantly between programs - even between services in a program! There’s risk in someone misconstruing the reasons for not liking it which is why I erred on the side of pointing out the good parts of each field. I felt it went without saying that I didn’t like another field enough to make it my top choice for a career.

 

[treebeardette]

Exactly. No i agree on the personality difference. The way I put it when asked was something like “I really liked general surgery, the big cases, the critical care component, but I just felt like I didn’t quite fit as well as I did on ent.”

I think we all know the gen surf experience can vary significantly between programs - even between services in a program! There’s risk in someone misconstruing the reasons for not liking it which is why I erred on the side of pointing out the good parts of each field. I felt it went without saying that I didn’t like another field enough to make it my top choice for a career.

This is key diplomatic interviewing strategy here.

 

[ribbit247]

This is key diplomatic interviewing strategy here.

Definitely agree!

 

[mymembernames]

friend matched with a 230 this year

 

[W19]

Thanks for the advice!

I do have a home based program which is why I'm seriously considering it. Definitely not aiming for top progams, but I still want to go somehwere decent if that's possible. I'm aiming for 255/260 on Step 2 this summer, I have already started to study.
But definitly trying to do electives and what not with my department.
Would a Step 2 score of 255+ make up for the low step 1?

Your step1 still keeps you in the game even if it's not 248-250, which is the average step1 for ENT these days... 255 step2 is average for ENT, so it won't make up for a low(er) step1 score... I would say 265+ might somewhat make up for your lower step1.

 

[ribbit247]

When I go talk to the program director at my home instituation, should I say the I'll also be applying for IM? Or should I say, I'll apply for prelim positions and reapply? I want to be honest since it's not technically an interview, but I also don't want to decrease my chances of getting into the program, because every interaction counts.

 

[treebeardette]

When I go talk to the program director at my home instituation, should I say the I'll also be applying for IM? Or should I say, I'll apply for prelim positions and reapply? I want to be honest since it's not technically an interview, but I also don't want to decrease my chances of getting into the program, because every interaction counts.

Why would you even bring this up? I don't think this question is as common as you think it is. You're also not really interviewing, you're introducing yourself and asking for advice and opportunities to get involved (although you should look put together and be on your best behavior obviously). At most, they might ask you what other specialties you've considered in order to genuinely gauge your interest, but not necessarily your backup plans. Here's how these discussions went with my mentor when I was in your shoes:
Mentor: "Have you thought about any other specialties you might be interested in?"
Me: Meh, gen surg wasn't the right fit, I need the OR, and other surgical subspecialties are gross. Maybe peds. Kids were cute. But I would specialize anyways so I could just do peds ENT, so really ENT is the only thing for me.

Saying you'll apply prelim and reapply doesn't make much sense at this point in the game. That would mean you're planning on not matching the first time, which is weird. I guess if someone is mean enough to push you about a backup, just hedge and waffle a lot. You don't need to come out and say, why yes! I can't wait to dual apply IM!
You: "I'm a little worried I might not be competitive enough for ENT. If after my best effort that's still the case, I think my backup would be internal medicine with the intention of entering a procedure heavy specialty like cards or GI. I thought about gen surg, but I don't think it's a good fit because...blah blah....but really I want to go all in for ENT because this is my life dream."

 

[Iris42]

Hi, I'm a MS2 thinking about ENT. How common/necessary is it to take a year off for research to match ENT?

 

[treebeardette]

Hi, I'm a MS2 thinking about ENT. How common/necessary is it to take a year off for research to match ENT?

It's not uncommon, but it's not usually necessary. I don't remember that many people on the interview trail who did true research years. A decent number did a second degree (MS, MBA, MPH, etc). A few reasons to consider a research year:
1) Beef up an otherwise unsatisfactory app. Really low step 1, zero research otherwise, that sort of thing.
2) You just want to. You like your current project and you just need another year to do something really cool.
3) You didn't realize ENT until late and it was too short of notice to comfortably switch gears.

Research is important and strong research can help make up for an otherwise lackluster app. But an unproductive research year may be worse than no research year at all, so buyer beware! You need to work if you're going to do a research year and pump out some first author pubs.

 

[libertyyne]

can someone tell me what has been happening to ENT this year? Weird, seems like there was little interest amongst AMGs. Are there compensation changes or oversaturation on the horizon?

 

[treebeardette]

can someone tell me what has been happening to ENT this year? Weird, seems like there was little interest amongst AMGs. Are there compensation changes or oversaturation on the horizon?

The million dollar question. There are people actually publishing articles on this and nobody really knows. To my knowledge, nothing like you suggested. ENT has been really good at controlling the number of residency spots so we don't over-saturate the market (reportedly only expanded by two spots this year in the whole country). The reigning theory is too many decent/lower tier applicants are scared away by advisors crying doom + too many hoops to jump through (the extra essays and the ORTA, which were instituted in the 2016-2017 cycle, but made optional in the 2017-2018 cycle because of the low number of applicants).

The general consensus is that people expect the pendulum to swing back. We used to have an abysmal match rate -> people stopped applying -> match rate gets better -> more people apply...

I'm not 100% satisfied with this answer though. Our competitiveness is in line with urology and ortho. I don't know.

 

[ribbit247]

The million dollar question. There are people actually publishing articles on this and nobody really knows. To my knowledge, nothing like you suggested. ENT has been really good at controlling the number of residency spots so we don't over-saturate the market (reportedly only expanded by two spots this year in the whole country). The reigning theory is too many decent/lower tier applicants are scared away by advisors crying doom + too many hoops to jump through (the extra essays and the ORTA, which were instituted in the 2016-2017 cycle, but made optional in the 2017-2018 cycle because of the low number of applicants).

The general consensus is that people expect the pendulum to swing back. We used to have an abysmal match rate -> people stopped applying -> match rate gets better -> more people apply...

I'm not 100% satisfied with this answer though. Our competitiveness is in line with urology and ortho. I don't know.

I was definitely wondering this too. ENT seems like one of the best surgical specialties in terms of lifestyle and compensation. But this year's match only 30 or so people did not match, out of 333. But from the match statistics on otomatch show that the 70-80% of people have step 1 of 245+. I agree with you in terms of less people are applying if they are below average. Because I know of at least 2 students who were set on ENT in the beginning have now changed to something else because they had scores similar to mine.

I just hope it doesn't have to do with job prospects or anything like that.

 

[ribbit247]

Why would you even bring this up? I don't think this question is as common as you think it is. You're also not really interviewing, you're introducing yourself and asking for advice and opportunities to get involved (although you should look put together and be on your best behavior obviously). At most, they might ask you what other specialties you've considered in order to genuinely gauge your interest, but not necessarily your backup plans. Here's how these discussions went with my mentor when I was in your shoes:
Mentor: "Have you thought about any other specialties you might be interested in?"
Me: Meh, gen surg wasn't the right fit, I need the OR, and other surgical subspecialties are gross. Maybe peds. Kids were cute. But I would specialize anyways so I could just do peds ENT, so really ENT is the only thing for me.

Saying you'll apply prelim and reapply doesn't make much sense at this point in the game. That would mean you're planning on not matching the first time, which is weird. I guess if someone is mean enough to push you about a backup, just hedge and waffle a lot. You don't need to come out and say, why yes! I can't wait to dual apply IM!
You: "I'm a little worried I might not be competitive enough for ENT. If after my best effort that's still the case, I think my backup would be internal medicine with the intention of entering a procedure heavy specialty like cards or GI. I thought about gen surg, but I don't think it's a good fit because...blah blah....but really I want to go all in for ENT because this is my life dream."

Thanks for this advice!!

 

[treebeardette]

I was definitely wondering this too. ENT seems like one of the best surgical specialties in terms of lifestyle and compensation.

And it's just the best. I 😍 ears.

 

[Iris42]

Do you have to do the extra essays and the ORTA to have a solid shot ?
I don't mid writing the extra essay for a couple of my top choices, but the phone interview kinda worries me!

 

[treebeardette]

Do you have to do the extra essays and the ORTA to have a solid shot ?
I don't mid writing the extra essay for a couple of my top choices, but the phone interview kinda worries me!

A lot of people didn't write the essays. It's really just an extra paragraph at the end of the personal statement with a couple of things about why you applied to each program. I don't believe in optional, so I did them. As with anything, some programs care about the paragraph, others do not at all. Maybe 3? required it this year.

The ORTA is actually really easy. As of right now, they don't know how to interpret it, so they're just collecting data. It's an hour and a half of behavioral questions, and it's super awkward. But as of right now, nobody sees your score, so there's no pressure. They appreciate you doing it so they can continue to validate it.

 

[Psai]

Not falling for this again.

 

[Preston Garvey]

A lot of people didn't write the essays. It's really just an extra paragraph at the end of the personal statement with a couple of things about why you applied to each program. I don't believe in optional, so I did them. As with anything, some programs care about the paragraph, others do not at all. Maybe 3? required it this year.

 

[treebeardette]

View attachment 230884

🙄 I take it you're not trying to match a surgical sub this year or you wouldn't find my statement all that surprising. I wasn't going to let a paragraph that takes 30 seconds to write be the difference between me matching and not matching.

My middle name is "hoop jumper."

 

[medstud268]

A lot of good advice on this thread. Also just matched this year, so ymmv, but I agree with a lot of what was said. I think step 1 is overblown; if you look at the otomatch google sheet, people with 240 steps did just as good if not better than many people with 250 or 260. The letters you have, the quality of your home program, and I would say the quality of your medical school play a large factor as well. Do not discount the value of aways either. I have a well recognized home program, but many of the top 10 programs I was shut out of. Howvever, the ones that I did get were those that were either regional or that I did an away at. People care a lot more about if you fit with them than if you went to x brand name school or got a 270+ on step 1. Also, I am not sure how necessary it is to apply to a back up. We had a student in my class with similar grades to yours who had less research and ended up getting >15 interviews and matching. But, if you want to be safe, by all means its good to do so. Finally, about the grades in surgery. It was something I was worried about when I was applying because I also did not honor surgery, however, it never came up once on interviews. It also didn't prevent me from getting my #1 choice, so I wouldn't worry if I were you. Just continue to do the best you can on the rest of 3rd year, take step 2 early and crush it, do a few aways and work hard, and you have a good shot of matching.

 

[ribbit247]

A lot of good advice on this thread. Also just matched this year, so ymmv, but I agree with a lot of what was said. I think step 1 is overblown; if you look at the otomatch google sheet, people with 240 steps did just as good if not better than many people with 250 or 260. The letters you have, the quality of your home program, and I would say the quality of your medical school play a large factor as well. Do not discount the value of aways either. I have a well recognized home program, but many of the top 10 programs I was shut out of. Howvever, the ones that I did get were those that were either regional or that I did an away at. People care a lot more about if you fit with them than if you went to x brand name school or got a 270+ on step 1. Also, I am not sure how necessary it is to apply to a back up. We had a student in my class with similar grades to yours who had less research and ended up getting >15 interviews and matching. But, if you want to be safe, by all means its good to do so. Finally, about the grades in surgery. It was something I was worried about when I was applying because I also did not honor surgery, however, it never came up once on interviews. It also didn't prevent me from getting my #1 choice, so I wouldn't worry if I were you. Just continue to do the best you can on the rest of 3rd year, take step 2 early and crush it, do a few aways and work hard, and you have a good shot of matching.

This is very encouraging to hear! For surgery, it was a little disappointing that I got near honors (high Pass), but I came to find out, that out of about 120 students, only 10 or so got either near honors or honors so far, the rest were passes. It's not the best but i'm still head of a majority of people in my class, so it felt reassuring. I'm on peds right now, and I don't think I'm going to get Honors in this because my attending has a reputation of giving very low evals to everyone, but oh well, you win some and lose some.

I do want to ask about research. I only have 1 ENT specific first author publication. But I have 2 facial plastics publication/poster, I chose this project because I really liked the PI and I told him I want to do ENT so he gave me something that is both ENT and plastics. I'm assuming that Programs don't really care which field you do research (majority should be in the field you are applying for of course), but will they see this as still ENT related or no?