MD What can I do to stop cheating in Med school ?

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Yes, in my Med school 80% of students cheat on exams, this is caused by 2 things:
1. The cameras aren't turned on most times ( when they are, no one watches them anyway )
2. The professors who are supervising us during exams close their eyes whenever they see people cheating, so obviously most people cheat.

I will not say which Med school I'm attending, for obvious reasons, so please don't ask.

I want to know this: what can I do to stop this ?

For those wondering why I don't "mind my business":
1. This is my business also.
2. As a student who learns for real, I've had enough of all the arrogant, disrespectful schoolmates who pass their exams by cheating. If these people at least would have a bit of social skills, respect or humanity in themselves, I wouldn't even mind that they cheat on exams, but they don't have these traits, what they have is arrogance and a blatant disrespect toward people in general.
It's a disgrace what's going on here and I just don't think that this is a place for future doctors. Somehow this cheating system has to be eliminated.

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[SunsFun]

Your biggest concern is that 80% of your classmates cheat, but then you say you wouldn't mind it if they had social skills and humanity. What is it that troubles you then? And how do you know that whopping 80% of people in your class cheat?

 

[jk441]

They’ll have a fun time when it comes to taking the boards.

Yes, in my Med school 80% of students cheat on exams, this is caused by 2 things:
1. The cameras aren't turned on most times ( when they are, no one watches them anyway )
2. The professors who are supervising us during exams close their eyes whenever they see people cheating, so obviously most people cheat.

I will not say which Med school I'm attending, for obvious reasons, so please don't ask.

I want to know this: what can I do to stop this ?

For those wondering why I don't "mind my business":
1. This is my business also.
2. As a student who learns for real, I've had enough of all the arrogant, disrespectful schoolmates who pass their exams by cheating. If these people at least would have a bit of social skills, respect or humanity in themselves, I wouldn't even mind that they cheat on exams, but they don't have these traits, what they have is arrogance and a blatant disrespect toward people in general.
It's a disgrace what's going on here and I just don't think that this is a place for future doctors. Somehow this cheating system has to be eliminated.

 

[Cath Up]

Yes, in my Med school 80% of students cheat on exams, this is caused by 2 things:
1. The cameras aren't turned on most times ( when they are, no one watches them anyway )
2. The professors who are supervising us during exams close their eyes whenever they see people cheating, so obviously most people cheat.

I will not say which Med school I'm attending, for obvious reasons, so please don't ask.

I want to know this: what can I do to stop this ?

For those wondering why I don't "mind my business":
1. This is my business also.
2. As a student who learns for real, I've had enough of all the arrogant, disrespectful schoolmates who pass their exams by cheating. If these people at least would have a bit of social skills, respect or humanity in themselves, I wouldn't even mind that they cheat on exams, but they don't have these traits, what they have is arrogance and a blatant disrespect toward people in general.
It's a disgrace what's going on here and I just don't think that this is a place for future doctors. Somehow this cheating system has to be eliminated.

They literally close their eyes?

 

[intubesteak]

I don't even know what to say. This is such a weird thread already.

 

[operaman]

Smells troll like.

But regardless, the boards will be a rude awakening for anyone who cheats.

Though as I think about it, I’m not sure how I would have cheated on my exams in Med school. We covered such huge volumes of info - I remember doing take home open note quizzes and still struggling to find the answers early on when I was still learning something. I can’t imagine the logistics of somehow looking everything up and actually finishing the test on time. We would have 250-350 questions per exam, and usually 80% were obvious and 20% were tougher, half of which were a toss up. So even for me, a baseline high scoring person, I’d have to look up 30-60 answers per test! Now take someone who would otherwise fail and they would theoretically have to look up 100-150 questions or more! I can’t imagine there’s time to do this. Even at 3 minutes per question you’re pushing 6 hours just for the ones you’re cheating on.

While obviously I don’t condone cheating, I’ll bet it doesn’t make that much difference in their final scores.

 

[kb1900]

Uh just wait til step1? if 80% of the class is cheating on every test, I’d imagine a lot have troubles with the boards

 

[funtertaining15]

"If these people at least would have a bit of social skills, respect or humanity in themselves, I wouldn't even mind that they cheat on exams"...
from the words of Ronald Weasley, you "need to sort out your priorities". Also, if professors are truly "closing their eyes" as you say... that's problematic...
All I can say is...bring it up to the dean and/or continue to live an honest life of your own. It will catch up to them eventually.
80% is a lot, goodness...if that's true, that's terrifying.

 

[prettylittlebird]

First of all, this is hilarious because I thought from the thread title that it would be a poster asking how they personally can stop compulsively cheating. Like a "cry for help" type thing Secondly, how would you even know 80% of your classmates are cheating unless you're spending the entire test-taking period eyeballing everyone which is...insane.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

I have a strong hunch that OP is making this whole thing up, as I cannot imagine that this scenario could actually occur. First, all medical schools have an extensive honor code that is very vigorously enforced, and exam taking measure have become very streamlined (computerized, proctored, etc) which make cheating very difficult to carry out successfully. No doubt that some people cheat, but to say that a vast majority of your class are all in on a big scam to cheat on tests sounds highly doubtful.

 

[Jojos]

Not your function to police your university. Let med school and the boards weed them out. If they end up passing through somehow they will **** up somewhere in the near future.

 

[Promethean]

So, I get the sense of professional duty and the wish not to be out-competed by people who aren't playing by the rules.

But like others have said, maybe mind your own business. Keep your own nose clean, do your own work, and if anyone offers to help you cheat, make it clear to them that you aren't interested and move on with your life.

I truly don't care how others get their work done. Like others have said, the boards will sort them out, and so will the wards, for that matter. There is no cheating in real life and your attendings will know the difference. I do run into problems where people will invite me to participate in things that I'm not comfortable with, like exchanging answers for online quizzes or whatever. Even when they are makework nonsense, I really prefer to muddle through them on my own and not have anyone provide shortcuts / question banks / whatever. I also pay for the medical education materials that I use, including paying for my own subscriptions to Sketchy, Pathoma, whatevs. Someone has to pay Online Med Ed so that they can afford to keep making the awesome videos for us all. I could run around tattling on all the people who are pirating the materials, but seriously, who would that help? This isn't kindergarten. These folks aren't missing an opportunity to learn to be better. If they are this amoral now, telling on them isn't going to fix them. It isn't going to weed them out. No one will give you a prize for doing your civic duty.

At some point, you have to draw a line where you decide that you are going to do what is right, even if it means that you shoulder an unfair share of the burden and face greater risks than people who are doing the wrong thing. If doing the right thing were the easier, cheaper, faster thing, then everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be a virtue. You have to decide to do it even though others won't and will get away with it and have some unfair advantages in the short term.

You still win in the long term. Your integrity will shine through, and you will get to be the kind of person who didn't cheat and didn't steal and still got through the super hard med school adventure. They will have to live with being the kind of people whose morals stopped mattering to them when they became a little inconvenient.

 

[prettylittlebird]

So, I get the sense of professional duty and the wish not to be out-competed by people who aren't playing by the rules.

But like others have said, maybe mind your own business. Keep your own nose clean, do your own work, and if anyone offers to help you cheat, make it clear to them that you aren't interested and move on with your life.

I truly don't care how others get their work done. Like others have said, the boards will sort them out, and so will the wards, for that matter. There is no cheating in real life and your attendings will know the difference. I do run into problems where people will invite me to participate in things that I'm not comfortable with, like exchanging answers for online quizzes or whatever. Even when they are makework nonsense, I really prefer to muddle through them on my own and not have anyone provide shortcuts / question banks / whatever. I also pay for the medical education materials that I use, including paying for my own subscriptions to Sketchy, Pathoma, whatevs. Someone has to pay Online Med Ed so that they can afford to keep making the awesome videos for us all. I could run around tattling on all the people who are pirating the materials, but seriously, who would that help? This isn't kindergarten. These folks aren't missing an opportunity to learn to be better. If they are this amoral now, telling on them isn't going to fix them. It isn't going to weed them out. No one will give you a prize for doing your civic duty.

At some point, you have to draw a line where you decide that you are going to do what is right, even if it means that you shoulder an unfair share of the burden and face greater risks than people who are doing the wrong thing. If doing the right thing were the easier, cheaper, faster thing, then everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be a virtue. You have to decide to do it even though others won't and will get away with it and have some unfair advantages in the short term.

You still win in the long term. Your integrity will shine through, and you will get to be the kind of person who didn't cheat and didn't steal and still got through the super hard med school adventure. They will have to live with being the kind of people whose morals stopped mattering to them when they became a little inconvenient.

It's a bit aggressive to call people who share subscription materials "amoral" and lump them into the same category as someone who would cheat on an exam. Some of us simply couldn't afford them otherwise and these types of resources are so important and valuable for doing well in medical school and on boards. Personally I think schools should cover the cost (I know some already do cover subscriptions to Pathoma or Sketchy) and hope that in the future more will.

 

[PlutoBoy]

OP, I faced a similar situation. My dad, who is a very wise man, told me not to worry. They may not fail the test but they will fail at life.

Keep your head up and try to learn as much as you can.

 

[vernhart]

OP, I faced a similar situation. My dad, who is a very wise man, told me not to worry. They may not fail the test but they will fail at life.

Keep your head up and try to learn as much as you can.

life=step 1

This checks out.

 

[Promethean]

It's a bit aggressive to call people who share subscription materials "amoral" and lump them into the same category as someone who would cheat on an exam. Some of us simply couldn't afford them otherwise and these types of resources are so important and valuable for doing well in medical school and on boards. Personally I think schools should cover the cost (I know some already do cover subscriptions to Pathoma or Sketchy) and hope that in the future more will.

You can draw your lines where you like. For me, I see taking things without authorization as theft and consider theft to be on par with cheating.

"Sharing" a subscription isn't like "sharing" an entree in a restaurant. You aren't splitting a finite thing between you. Each person who is in on the "share" is getting the full benefit of access to materials that were priced to be made available to an individual. They each put in a fraction of the cost and get the whole thing.

Just as each person who participates in "sharing" the work of doing a quiz, but all get the whole grade. It isn't really that different. They might not have all been able to do well if they didn't pool their efforts. To me, it is equally shaky ground, from an ethical standpoint, to use the excuse "but if I didn't break the rules, I wouldn't have won." Whether you frame it as "I wouldn't have had time to get a good grade if I hadn't cheated" or "I wouldn't have been able to afford it if I didn't find a way to take it without paying what the owner asked for it." Thinking that the school should buy it for you doesn't make it more okay to not pay for what you use.

The resources are valuable. They are very helpful. The people who make them put their time and energy and resources into creating them. Deciding that the price that they ask is too much and that this gives you the right to break their terms of service and split an account with 2 or 3 or 10 other people means that you are freeloading on the backs of all the people who do pay full price. Just like all the people who cheat are getting away with grades that they didn't earn at the expense of those who played by the rules.

I'm sorry that you don't see the moral equivalency there. Like, I mean, I am sorry for you, because that will hurt you in life, maybe in ways that you won't be able to perceive. You never really get away with cutting corners on integrity, even when you think that you have.

 

[Chibucks15]

I'm sorry that you don't see the moral equivalency there. Like, I mean, I am sorry for you, because that will hurt you in life, maybe in ways that you won't be able to perceive. You never really get away with cutting corners on integrity, even when you think that you have.

Okay I don't think people splitting sketchy accounts and stuff like that are really gonna "hurt you in life"...that seems a little extreme. I agree with the 'cheaters never prosper' message and people who actively try to cheat on exams and other stuff should be punished but calling all the students trying to scrape by in medical school with ridiculous tuition rates, etc amoral and that you feel sorry for them comes off as more than a bit pretentious. I'm not saying I split or anything like that but still. We're all putting in the work required at least...

 

[MD-2021]

Yes, in my Med school 80% of students cheat on exams, this is caused by 2 things:
1. The cameras aren't turned on most times ( when they are, no one watches them anyway )
2. The professors who are supervising us during exams close their eyes whenever they see people cheating, so obviously most people cheat.

I will not say which Med school I'm attending, for obvious reasons, so please don't ask.

I want to know this: what can I do to stop this ?

For those wondering why I don't "mind my business":
1. This is my business also.
2. As a student who learns for real, I've had enough of all the arrogant, disrespectful schoolmates who pass their exams by cheating. If these people at least would have a bit of social skills, respect or humanity in themselves, I wouldn't even mind that they cheat on exams, but they don't have these traits, what they have is arrogance and a blatant disrespect toward people in general.
It's a disgrace what's going on here and I just don't think that this is a place for future doctors. Somehow this cheating system has to be eliminated.

Honestly even if this is true, it's still not your job to police them. The USMLE and clinical years will weed them out, and if they still remain they're qualified to be doctors.

 

[Small Cell Carcinoma]

Honestly even if this is true, it's still not your job to police them. The USMLE and clinical years will weed them out, and if they still remain they're qualified to be doctors.

Yeah to OP, if this is true, definitely do not rat them out. The only think worse than actively cheating yourself, is being the mole who turns in your classmates.

 

[prettylittlebird]

You can draw your lines where you like. For me, I see taking things without authorization as theft and consider theft to be on par with cheating.

"Sharing" a subscription isn't like "sharing" an entree in a restaurant. You aren't splitting a finite thing between you. Each person who is in on the "share" is getting the full benefit of access to materials that were priced to be made available to an individual. They each put in a fraction of the cost and get the whole thing.

Just as each person who participates in "sharing" the work of doing a quiz, but all get the whole grade. It isn't really that different. They might not have all been able to do well if they didn't pool their efforts. To me, it is equally shaky ground, from an ethical standpoint, to use the excuse "but if I didn't break the rules, I wouldn't have won." Whether you frame it as "I wouldn't have had time to get a good grade if I hadn't cheated" or "I wouldn't have been able to afford it if I didn't find a way to take it without paying what the owner asked for it." Thinking that the school should buy it for you doesn't make it more okay to not pay for what you use.

The resources are valuable. They are very helpful. The people who make them put their time and energy and resources into creating them. Deciding that the price that they ask is too much and that this gives you the right to break their terms of service and split an account with 2 or 3 or 10 other people means that you are freeloading on the backs of all the people who do pay full price. Just like all the people who cheat are getting away with grades that they didn't earn at the expense of those who played by the rules.

I'm sorry that you don't see the moral equivalency there. Like, I mean, I am sorry for you, because that will hurt you in life, maybe in ways that you won't be able to perceive. You never really get away with cutting corners on integrity, even when you think that you have.

Oh my goodness please spare me the comically dire (not to mention condescending) words of foreboding. Your holier than thou attitude is very telling.

 

[prettylittlebird]

Also, since this seems to be a common theme y'all are echoing let me explain something about life - cheaters are not always caught, some DO prosper, and life isn't fair. If you are justifying your anger or your own "moral" actions with the idea that those who act differently from you will be punished then you will be very disappointed. Instead, focus on your own life and morals because they're what matter to you. This has been a PSA.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

1.Your biggest concern is that 80% of your classmates cheat, but then you say you wouldn't mind it if they had social skills and humanity. What is it that troubles you then?
2. And how do you know that whopping 80% of people in your class cheat?

1. Sorry, but what you ask makes no sense whatsoever. You say that you see nothing troubling in the fact that 80% cheat ?

2. Because I see ?
Listen, this is how an exam goes: we start writing...15 minutes pass and one of the professors already warns one of our classmates that "if you move your head once again, you will leave the classroom.." - everyone knows this is not going to happen, so these types of "warnings" are repeated several times during an exam without anyone actually leaving the classroom.
Sometimes between two questions that I'm writing, I take a few seconds to think, and during that time no matter where I look at, someone is always cheating, some people are always collaborating, they don't even do it in a subtle way now, but they do it in a way that anyone could spot them, because they know that they won't be kicked out.
I'm not spying on anyone, it's simply enough to take my eyes off my paper for a few seconds just to look at the walls, and I can see it, because it's that obvious and because there's so many people who do it.

 

[theonlytycrane]

carrib students be like

 

[lovehate]

.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Alright, I see most of you are against me in this case.

It seems weird however that the only problem you've got with my approach is that "don't be a mole!!!" - Really ? So based on that logic, if a professor would make a change it would be alright, if the dean would make a change it'd be alright, if anyone at all would make a change it'd be alright, but if I'd do it, then it wouldn't be alright, because I would be a mole ?
Am I crossing an ethical line by turning in people who are crossing an ethical line ?
That's an interesting mentality you all have.

As for those who said that this question is fake: sorry to disappoint you, but it's not. To your surprise, there are Medical schools outside US that do not "have an extensive honor code that is very vigorously enforced" like someone wrote - our school is one of those.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Your holier than thou attitude is very telling.

Please tell me what is this attitude telling you.

You know that usually in life I mind my own business ?
Even more: I went to another school before I joined Med school. People there also cheated. I didn't mind it at all, because the stakes were lower. It was a field in which people didn't get killed by people who don't do their job well.
But in Medicine people do get killed and they get killed, because even those people get their diplomas who aren't truly earning it, but they just get lucky.
You were also the one who wrote that "in life not everything is fair" - Well in Medicine it should be, you know ?

Please tell me, by all means, if my logic is flawed, but so far it seems to me that you're using cliches to defend a cheating mentality.

 

[libertyyne]

Your biggest concern is that 80% of your classmates cheat, but then you say you wouldn't mind it if they had social skills and humanity. What is it that troubles you then? And how do you know that whopping 80% of people in your class cheat?

They checked the cheating box during the census, duh.

 

[deleted480308]

It's a bit aggressive to call people who share subscription materials "amoral" and lump them into the same category as someone who would cheat on an exam. Some of us simply couldn't afford them otherwise and these types of resources are so important and valuable for doing well in medical school and on boards. Personally I think schools should cover the cost (I know some already do cover subscriptions to Pathoma or Sketchy) and hope that in the future more will.

You are correct that theft is not exactly the same as cheating

Okay I don't think people splitting sketchy accounts and stuff like that are really gonna "hurt you in life"...that seems a little extreme. I agree with the 'cheaters never prosper' message and people who actively try to cheat on exams and other stuff should be punished but calling all the students trying to scrape by in medical school with ridiculous tuition rates, etc amoral and that you feel sorry for them comes off as more than a bit pretentious. I'm not saying I split or anything like that but still. We're all putting in the work required at least...

No. Putting in the work required would include paying for the resources one uses

 

[libertyyne]

OP are you at an American school?

 

[DrYoda]

you have cameras watching you during exams?

Also, people don't get killed if you can't draw the krebs cycle.

 

[MD-2021]

OP are you at an American school?

According to him, he is not

Alright, I see most of you are against me in this case.

It seems weird however that the only problem you've got with my approach is that "don't be a mole!!!" - Really ? So based on that logic, if a professor would make a change it would be alright, if the dean would make a change it'd be alright, if anyone at all would make a change it'd be alright, but if I'd do it, then it wouldn't be alright, because I would be a mole ?
Am I crossing an ethical line by turning in people who are crossing an ethical line ?
That's an interesting mentality you all have.

As for those who said that this question is fake: sorry to disappoint you, but it's not. To your surprise, there are Medical schools outside US that do not "have an extensive honor code that is very vigorously enforced" like someone wrote - our school is one of those.

I was very suspect that this would be the case. There is no way that something like this could happen at a US MD school. Even so, I don't expect that anything positive will come of you reporting this. It appears that the administration already KNOWS that cheating is rampant, and refuses to address it. All you're doing is painting a target on your back. I sympathize with you, but I don't think reporting this is is in your best interest. You're in a dicey situation as it is, as a student at a foreign medical school you have much less certainty of educational rights.

 

[libertyyne]

OP , unfortunately many of us won't be Able to provide you with good advice because cheating is not tolerated at many us schools. I am unsure what country and what culture you go to school at, but in some countries cheating and bribes are a way of life. The only way you can get through this is just focusing on yourself.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

you have cameras watching you during exams?

Also, people don't get killed if you can't draw the krebs cycle.

Interesting.
I've been reading on other threads and everyone seemed to agree that cheating is not conditional.
Now suddenly cheating is alright, as long as students make their own opinions about what's important and what is not.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

According to him, he is not

I was very suspect that this would be the case. There is no way that something like this could happen at a US MD school. Even so, I don't expect that anything positive will come of you reporting this. It appears that the administration already KNOWS that cheating is rampant, and refuses to address it. All you're doing is painting a target on your back. I sympathize with you, but I don't think reporting this is is in your best interest. You're in a dicey situation as it is, as a student at a foreign medical school you have much less certainty of educational rights.

Thanks for giving a logical answer and for actually taking this thread seriously.

 

[kb1900]

Interesting.
I've been reading on other threads and everyone seemed to agree that cheating is not conditional.
Now suddenly cheating is alright, as long as students make their own opinions about what's important and what is not.

Lol he’s saying cheating doesn’t kill people. He’s not saying cheating is ok.

The reason is that we have board exams before you can practice to demonstrate minimum competency.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Lol he’s saying cheating doesn’t kill people. He’s not saying cheating is ok.

The reason is that we have board exams before you can practice to demonstrate minimum competency.

That's because you assume that board exams in the US are the same as board exams in my country. They are not.

Also, you don't take into consideration that tuition-free places are taken away by those who cheat and pass exams from people who study and fail the exams.
I had classmates the last year who studied for real and they lost their places, now they have to pay only because someone who cheated got ahead of them. Some cheaters even get scholarships, while other people who study for real do not get scholarships, although they would need it a lot more.

I pay for my tuition anyway, but there were people who had to quit Med school because they didn't have the money to pay for it, and this would be fair, if the people who got their places would have earned it, but they haven't - they simply cheated and they got better grades and they got the places of other people.

So I do think that some of you have a very simplistic view on this and don't analyze the problem from all the angles.

My intention wasn't to turn people in and to be a mole, as some of you called me, but to make a change not just for this generation, but for the generations to come.
I don't think that this is how a Medical school should be and I don't think that future doctors should succumb to cheating only because "they can't draw the Krebs cycle because it's not so important" and other excuses.
Today it's the Krebs cycle, tomorrow it's going to be something important. Cheating is about the attitude, not about the subject.
Whatever. Peace.

 

[Chibucks15]

You are correct that theft is not exactly the same as cheating

No. Putting in the work required would include paying for the resources one uses

Personally I do not equate putting in the work with paying an arm and a leg for everything. I get where you're coming from but with how expensive everything is I'm more inclined to let people who split slide (cuz they're still learning the material) rather than someone copying answers and not putting in the work. But that's just me

 

[deleted480308]

Personally I do not equate putting in the work with paying an arm and a leg for everything. I get where you're coming from but with how expensive everything is I'm more inclined to let people who split slide (cuz they're still learning the material) rather than someone copying answers and not putting in the work. But that's just me

Then “just you” is fine with theft. Theft and cheating are very different but neither is ok

 

[Chibucks15]

Then “just you” is fine with theft. Theft and cheating are very different but neither is ok

I guess it just isn't too high on the priority list. I'm the worst aren't I?

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Then “just you” is fine with theft. Theft and cheating are very different but neither is ok

If a students gives to the rest free material, is it a theft or is it a gift ?

 

[kb1900]

That's because you assume that board exams in the US are the same as board exams in my country. They are not.

Also, you don't take into consideration that tuition-free places are taken away by those who cheat and pass exams from people who study and fail the exams.
I had classmates the last year who studied for real and they lost their places, now they have to pay only because someone who cheated got ahead of them. Some cheaters even get scholarships, while other people who study for real do not get scholarships, although they would need it a lot more.

I pay for my tuition anyway, but there were people who had to quit Med school because they didn't have the money to pay for it, and this would be fair, if the people who got their places would have earned it, but they haven't - they simply cheated and they got better grades and they got the places of other people.

So I do think that some of you have a very simplistic view on this and don't analyze the problem from all the angles.

My intention wasn't to turn people in and to be a mole, as some of you called me, but to make a change not just for this generation, but for the generations to come.
I don't think that this is how a Medical school should be and I don't think that future doctors should succumb to cheating only because "they can't draw the Krebs cycle because it's not so important" and other excuses.
Today it's the Krebs cycle, tomorrow it's going to be something important. Cheating is about the attitude, not about the subject.
Whatever. Peace.

Don’t know why you’re quoting me. I was just clarifying his/her post since you straw-manned it hard. I don’t even share the same view as them

 

[Mad Jack]

Oh my goodness please spare me the comically dire (not to mention condescending) words of foreboding. Your holier than thou attitude is very telling.

God forbid some of us have ethical principles

 

[DrYoda]

Interesting.
I've been reading on other threads and everyone seemed to agree that cheating is not conditional.
Now suddenly cheating is alright, as long as students make their own opinions about what's important and what is not.

As has already been said, I'm not condoning cheating; I'm simply saying your people dying excuse is nonsense.

 

[Osminog]

The test material is the property of the institution, and cheating is the misuse of this property. It is wrong to borrow someone else's property and then break the agreed-upon conditions under which it was loaned to you.

(As an aside, the karma arguments ("Just wait 'til they get their board scores!") are silly. We don't know what the board exams are like in OP's country, and we don't know if cheating actually serves as a disadvantage when it comes to board prep; maybe cheating allows OP's classmates to have more time to study for the boards.)

OP, if your medical school grades will likely have a direct effect on your career outcome, then you should report this issue; perhaps send an anonymous email to several deans at the institution.

If, however, your medical school grades won't affect your career outcome, then ignore the situation and focus on your own progress.

Then “just you” is fine with theft. Theft and cheating are very different but neither is ok

Cheating doesn't usually consist of theft, but it certainly can, e.g., if someone takes a page from the exam home with him after the exam, or steals a document from a professor's office.

 

[Promethean]

God forbid some of us have ethical principles

I didn't even see a point in answering back. I read that noise as evidence of a bruised conscience and an attempt to soothe it with cognitive dissonance.

 

[Donald Juan]

If you are in a country that doesn't take boards and doesn't have any standards for MD, what do you expect us to say? What your describing doesn't really happen in the US, at least not to the extent of 80% of the class heavily and blatantly cheating on regular exams. Sorry your country doesn't hold physicians to a higher standard.

 

[takeurmeds02]

I would be pissed too but at the end of the day, it really isn't your business to police your classmates unless they are actively causing harm and impacting patient care or blatantly breaking the law in a way that would impact you.

I think people have to realize that the world just isn't a fair place no matter how you feel it should be. Policing other people just isn't sustainable for your own mental wellness.

If you feel that strongly, go generally address it with administration but I wouldn't blow the whistle on specific individuals, especially when you claim 80% are cheating. Best way to make a bunch of enemies at one time.

 

[SunsFun]

I didn't even see a point in answering back. I read that noise as evidence of a bruised conscience and an attempt to soothe it with cognitive dissonance.

Presence of cognitive dissonance would require implicitly assuming that intellectual property should be treated similarly to tangible assets. I don't want to open this can of worms in a discussion that pertains mostly to blatant cheating. But, it's not a slam dunk argument for either side.

 

[MD-2021]

That's because you assume that board exams in the US are the same as board exams in my country. They are not.

Also, you don't take into consideration that tuition-free places are taken away by those who cheat and pass exams from people who study and fail the exams.
I had classmates the last year who studied for real and they lost their places, now they have to pay only because someone who cheated got ahead of them. Some cheaters even get scholarships, while other people who study for real do not get scholarships, although they would need it a lot more.

I pay for my tuition anyway, but there were people who had to quit Med school because they didn't have the money to pay for it, and this would be fair, if the people who got their places would have earned it, but they haven't - they simply cheated and they got better grades and they got the places of other people.

So I do think that some of you have a very simplistic view on this and don't analyze the problem from all the angles.

My intention wasn't to turn people in and to be a mole, as some of you called me, but to make a change not just for this generation, but for the generations to come.
I don't think that this is how a Medical school should be and I don't think that future doctors should succumb to cheating only because "they can't draw the Krebs cycle because it's not so important" and other excuses.
Today it's the Krebs cycle, tomorrow it's going to be something important. Cheating is about the attitude, not about the subject.
Whatever. Peace.

Yeah, I get what you're talking about. I've seen this situation in my home country as well. However, I still don't think you have the power to change this incredibly corrupt system. Much easier for the schools to just kick you out, and if they're as corrupt as you say they are, they just might do that.

 

[MaxilloMandibuleros]

Don’t know why you’re quoting me. I was just clarifying his/her post since you straw-manned it hard. I don’t even share the same view as them

Alright, sorry for quoting you ( if this is such a big deal ).
I don't consider that I straw-manned anything.