What do aspiring and current M.Ds think of D.Os now?

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VanEman said:
We are actually in violent agreement. The best indictor of success in medical school is science grades. Why do we make people spend so much money and time on a test that is a poor predictor, at best, of success as a doctor. Other smarter foreign countries do without it quite successfully (look at Europe! and Australia!) and we could as well. Differentiating among our physicians based on who scored at the 85% or 60% on a test that the rest of the world successfully does without is silly. Essays don't predict success, interviews don't predict success, clinical work doesn't predict success---why do we bother with them---they waste money and time. If medical schools really cared about science, they would be scientific about how they admit students and they are not. They let emotion and tradition rule the day, and throw meaningless hurdles in the way of qualified applicants.
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Cause they want less gynecologists filming their patients and less anesthesiologists groping their patients while they're out.

In other words, fewer lunatics/wierdos.
 
DermViser said:
Hard to tell based on things you've said in prior posts when it comes to defending the D.O. degree to the hilt.
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Yea you're right defending DOs means I can't joke. Noted I will never kid around with you again. I will leave the jokes to you smarter and funnier MDs. I'll jet return to my family medicine residency in iowa. Hopefully I will be able to afford to feed my family tonight.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Yea you're right defending DOs means I can't joke. Noted I will never kid around with you again. I will leave the jokes to you smarter and funnier MDs. I'll jet return to my family medicine residency in iowa. Hopefully I will be able to afford to feed my family tonight.
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I was more talking about defending the DO degree in terms of quality of education in terms of quality of MS-3 clerkships, in terms of the match as far as which candidate is more favored (for good reason, IMHO), etc. which other people have taken the time to carefully and slowly explain to you. It's one thing to not like those realities, but you go one step further and choose not to acknowledge them. That's perfectly fine, but what's sad is that someone reading what you say might actually believe it and make matriculation decisions based on that.
 
DermViser said:
I was more talking about defending the DO degree in terms of quality of education in terms of quality of MS-3 clerkships, in terms of the match as far as which candidate is more favored (for good reason, IMHO), etc. which other people have taken the time to carefully and slowly explain to you. It's one thing to not like those realities, but you go one step further and choose not to acknowledge them. That's perfectly fine, but what's sad is that someone reading what you say might actually believe it and make matriculation decisions based on that.
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You're completely right. Why are even DOs licensed? Its not like they go to real med school. I didn't even know DOs went on rotations. Do they just bust out some crayons and color? Its time for america to join the rest of world and ban DOs from praticing. Once again america is behind the eight ball. China would never allow these sub par physicians to pratice.

On a side note why are all MDs just so friggen perfect. All residency programs are just so flawless.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
You're completely right. Why are even DOs licensed? Its not like they go to real med school. I didn't even know DOs went on rotations. Do they just bust out some crayons and color? Its time for america to join the rest of world and ban DOs from praticing. Once again america I'd behind the eight ball. China would never allow these sub par physicians to pratice.

On a side note why are all MDs just so friggen perfect. All residency programs are just so flawless.
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No one said D.O.s shouldn't be licensed. I realize that making up the other side's position is convenient for you rather than to address their actual points. I have even said that in terms of being a physician, D.O. and M.D. are treated equivalently in terms of obtaining a physician state medical license and practicing.

The actual issue is what is behind the piece of paper and student loan dollars, and how residency program directors (which people on SDN will care about since many people are considering certain specialties before applying for medical school) evaluate different residency candidates. Even in the MD world, different medical schools are seen differently by PDs (esp. ones who have been doing it for a long time) as they know which med schools put out stellar candidates, which ones put out average to mediocre candidates. And this is not something that can be whittled down to a sole metric of a Step score. No one said the residency selection process is perfect either. However, it's the best that we have as the selection of applicants is by human beings and not by supercomputers.

It's not fair, but life is not fair.
 
DermViser said:
No one said D.O.s shouldn't be licensed. I realize that making up the other side's position is convenient for you rather than to address their actual points. I have even said that in terms of being a physician, D.O. and M.D. are treated equivalently in terms of obtaining a physician state medical license and practicing.

The actual issue is what is behind the piece of paper and student loan dollars, and how residency program directors (which people on SDN will care about since many people are considering certain specialties before applying for medical school) evaluate different residency candidates. Even in the MD world, different medical schools are seen differently by PDs (esp. ones who have been doing it for a long time) as they know which med schools put out stellar candidates, which ones put out average to mediocre candidates. And this is not something that can be whittled down to a sole metric of a Step score. No one said the residency selection process is perfect either. However, it's the best that we have as the selection of applicants is by human beings and not by supercomputers.

It's not fair, but life is not fair.
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Agreed. You are such a good person. Warning everyone about the subpar quality of DO schools. You know I'm so silly. I went and asked DO doctors about the quality of DO schools education. I instead should have asked you person who has never attended a DO school. Every DO school is obviously terrible and every MD school is obviously amazing.



Serious part of the post
If anyone wants to actually know the quality of education and rotations that a do school provides ask someone who actually know what they are talking about not this guy who hasn't attended a DO school.

For example ask

@Goro
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Agreed. You are such a good person. Warning everyone about the subpar quality of DO schools. You know I'm so silly. I went and asked DO doctors about the quality of DO schools education. I instead should have asked you person who has never attended a DO school. Every DO school is obviously terrible and every MD school is obviously amazing.

Serious part of the post
If anyone wants to actually know the quality of education and rotations that a do school provides ask someone who actually know what they are talking about not this guy who hasn't attended a DO school.

For example ask

@Goro
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You can continue to deny facts all you want. If DO schools chose rotations in academic medical centers it would be different. Instead (on average) they choose rotations at hospitals in the community, many of them private, in which their role is much more of shadowing. So then don't be surprised when ACGME program directors who work at academic medical centers don't want people who've done their rotations and been evaluated in places that are in the community.

It doesn't mean a DO won't be chosen, but allopathic PDs will try to go with the MD student as medical schools rotations occur at academic medical centers,
 
DermViser said:
You can continue to deny facts all you want. If DO schools chose rotations in academic medical centers it would be different. Instead (on average) they choose rotations at hospitals in the community, many of them private, in which their role is much more of shadowing. So then don't be surprised when ACGME program directors who work at academic medical centers don't want people who've done their rotations and been evaluated in places that are in the community.

It doesn't mean a DO won't be chosen, but allopathic PDs will try to go with the MD student as medical schools rotations occur at academic medical centers,
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You are so knowledgeable about DO rotations. WOW. How many DO rotations have you gone on? Zero? Hmmm thats weird.

I know why don't we ask someone like GORO or a DO student or DO resident or DO doctor as I have done?

No? You don't want to do that? Hmm that's weird. It seems like only one of us is actually curious about learning the truth.
 
DermViser said:
You can continue to deny facts all you want. If DO schools chose rotations in academic medical centers it would be different. Instead (on average) they choose rotations at hospitals in the community, many of them private, in which their role is much more of shadowing. So then don't be surprised when ACGME program directors who work at academic medical centers don't want people who've done their rotations and been evaluated in places that are in the community.

It doesn't mean a DO won't be chosen, but allopathic PDs will try to go with the MD student as medical schools rotations occur at academic medical centers,
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Look, we get your point...as does anyone else who spends time on SDN. No need to rub it in. Keep in mind that even after the residency merger, the osteopathic ortho, derm, surgery, radiology etc. residencies will have a OMM requirement, making it very difficult for MD grads to access those residencies. I hope you feel better about your life with your superior MD. Also, a significant proportion of MD physicians practicing in America do community rotations...I'm referring to your Caribbean MD brothers. Yes, they are your MD brothers after all and American patients won't distinguish their MD from yours LOL. Saint Georges University is the largest producer of MD physicians in America....take that and rewind it back!
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
You are so knowledgeable about DO rotations. WOW. How many DO rotations have you gone on? Zero? Hmmm thats weird.

I know why don't we ask someone like GORO or a DO student or DO resident or DO doctor as I have done?

No? You don't want to do that? Hmm that's weird. It seems like only one of us is actually curious about learning the truth.
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So in order for me to know about DO rotations, I have to actually do those rotations? Funny bc I thought DO education was = to MD education. You can't have it both ways. I can't just ask a DO student/resident themselves (which I have)? Funny that you assumed that I didn't ask or wasn't curious to know.

Yet, when you look at the ERAS listing of DO residencies it actually confirms what I say on average. The residency programs are at community-based hospitals, not academic medical centers with an attached medical school.
 
DermViser said:
You can continue to deny facts all you want. If DO schools chose rotations in academic medical centers it would be different. Instead (on average) they choose rotations at hospitals in the community, many of them private, in which their role is much more of shadowing. So then don't be surprised when ACGME program directors who work at academic medical centers don't want people who've done their rotations and been evaluated in places that are in the community.

It doesn't mean a DO won't be chosen, but allopathic PDs will try to go with the MD student as medical schools rotations occur at academic medical centers,
Click to expand...

DermViser claims to be a practicing physician, but from all of his posts it seems like he is a mid level (NP/PA) who was rescued by a MD while getting raped by a DO lol. Don't take it personal buddy he was just trying to incorporate OMT into the practice lol. Thus why he spends half his time promoting these mid level professions while holding deep disrespect for a medical doctor just because of the 2 letters behind their name.
 
SkipJunior said:
Look, we get your point...as does anyone else who spends time on SDN. No need to rub it in. Keep in mind that even after the residency merger, the osteopathic ortho, derm, surgery, radiology etc. residencies will have a OMM requirement, making it very difficult for MD grads to access those residencies. I hope you feel better about your pathetic life with your superior MD. Also, a significant proportion of MD physicians practicing in America do community rotations...I'm referring to your Caribbean MD brothers. Yes, they are your MD brothers after all and American patients won't distinguish their MD from yours LOL. Saint Georges University is the largest producer of MD physicians in America....take that and rewind it back!
Click to expand...
I'd be extremely surprised if post-merger requirements favored DOs in any way. Honestly to me it looks like the AOA blinked and gave away the farm.

And really, the best way to "defend" DO (not that it needs defending) isn't to bring it down to the level of the Carib. You're just asking for parallels to be drawn.

ASD2019 said:
DermViser claims to be a practicing physician, but from all of his posts it seems like he is a mid level (NP/PA) who was rescued by a MD while getting raped by a DO lol. Don't take it personal buddy he was just trying to incorporate OMT into the practice lol. Thus why he spends half his time promoting these mid level professions while holding deep disrespect for a medical doctor just because of the 2 letters behind their name.
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rape jokes, real classy. thread lock in 3..2..1..
 
SkipJunior said:
Look, we get your point...as does anyone else who spends time on SDN. No need to rub it in. Keep in mind that even after the residency merger, the osteopathic ortho, derm, surgery, radiology etc. residencies will have a OMM requirement, making it very difficult for MD grads to access those residencies. I hope you feel better about your pathetic life with your superior MD. Also, a significant proportion of MD physicians practicing in America do community rotations...I'm referring to your Caribbean MD brothers. Yes, they are your MD brothers after all and American patients won't distinguish their MD from yours LOL. Saint Georges University is the largest producer of MD physicians in America....take that and rewind it back!
Click to expand...
The OMM requirement will likely be AFTER they match, not before. I'm not rubbing it in. DoctorSynthesis refuses to actually acknowledge it and has the threshold that unless you're a DO student/resident/attending, then you have no right to comment on the quality of its education. That's quite ridiculous bc esp. with the ACGME merger, MDs will have the right to comment on the quality of those residencies, hence the fear that many of them will be shut down due to not meeting standards.

GuyWhoDoesStuff, SouthernIM, DarknightX, etc. have told him the actual realities as they are quite ahead in the timeline of medical education as DoctorSynthesis and instead he refuses to even acknowledge it as a possibility.

Largest producer of MDs in America? Yeah, that might be the case considering they take 700 in their initial class. Allopathic medical schools in the U.S. aren't allowed to do that.
 
ASD2019 said:
DermViser claims to be a practicing physician, but from all of his posts it seems like he is a mid level (NP/PA) who was rescued by a MD while getting raped by a DO lol. Don't take it personal buddy he was just trying to incorporate OMT into the practice lol. Thus why he spends half his time promoting these mid level professions while holding deep disrespect for a medical doctor just because of the 2 letters behind their name.
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Dead. :laugh:

DermViser said:
So in order for me to know about DO rotations, I have to actually do those rotations? Funny bc I thought DO education was = to MD education. You can't have it both ways. I can't just ask a DO student/resident themselves (which I have)? Funny that you assumed that I didn't ask or wasn't curious to know.

Yet, when you look at the ERAS listing of DO residencies it actually confirms what I say on average. The residency programs are at community-based hospitals, not academic medical centers with an attached medical school.
Click to expand...

So if we say our education is equal to yours we have to let you say that it isn't?

BTW half of my medical schools (school I got into I'm pre med) go acgme.

@Goro

Do your students receive a high quality education/rotations or do your students merely shadow as derm viser is suggesting.
 
I'm fairly sure DermViser is just a troll who's pretending to be a physician when he's actually a PA/NP. You ain't that smart lol. Stop blatantly supporting your profession. Why so much hatred against DOs? Is it because you realize you are well beneath them?

Whether this thread gets locked or not, I'm positive that sooner or later, the loser beta troll DermViser will be banned lol. Hey Dermviser, you lowly assistant, get me my tea LOLOLOLOL.
 
RogueUnicorn said:
I'd be extremely surprised if post-merger requirements favored DOs in any way. Honestly to me it looks like the AOA blinked and gave away the farm.

And really, the best way to "defend" DO (not that it needs defending) isn't to bring it down to the level of the Carib. You're just asking for parallels to be drawn.
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It won't - hence a certain poster here saying that it's "D.O. Discrimination".

The ACGME apparently told the AOA that there is no way they could guarantee that esp. at institutions at the top that they would consider D.O. applicants on par with MD applicants. Hence the AOA reneged - and then got a huge backlash from their D.O. medical students, esp. when the ACGME released a letter detailing exactly what happened and that the AOA backed out of the deal thus backing them into a corner.
 
RogueUnicorn said:
I'd be extremely surprised if post-merger requirements favored DOs in any way. Honestly to me it looks like the AOA blinked and gave away the farm.

And really, the best way to "defend" DO (not that it needs defending) isn't to bring it down to the level of the Carib. You're just asking for parallels to be drawn.


rape jokes, real classy. thread lock in 3..2..1..
Click to expand...

Please lock it down . pleaseeeeee
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
BTW half of my medical schools (school I got into I'm pre med) go acgme.
Click to expand...

Mainly bc there aren't enough AOA positions alone to cover DO students. If DOs did only the AOA match, a huge percentage of your class would be unmatched due to the lack of spots.
 
SkipJunior said:
I'm fairly sure DermViser is just a troll who's pretending to be a physician when he's actually a PA/NP. You ain't that smart lol. Stop blatantly supporting your profession. Why so much hatred against DOs? Is it because you realize you are well beneath them?

Whether this thread gets locked or not, I'm positive that sooner or later, the loser beta troll DermViser will be banned lol. Hey Dermviser, you lowly assistant, get me my tea LOLOLOLOL.
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big talk for a guy who manages blood banks...
 
SkipJunior said:
I'm fairly sure DermViser is just a troll who's pretending to be a physician when he's actually a PA/NP. You ain't that smart lol. Stop blatantly supporting your profession. Why so much hatred against DOs? Is it because you realize you are well beneath them?

Whether this thread gets locked or not, I'm positive that sooner or later, the loser beta troll DermViser will be banned lol. Hey Dermviser, you lowly assistant, get me my tea LOLOLOLOL.
Click to expand...
It's interesting that you would say this as you are currently on Probationary Status esp. as a Caribbean grad yourself currently who is looking for other options. No one here is trolling.

And the rape comment above is quite below the par, when there are actual REAL victims - in which rape truly destroys their lives.
 
DermViser said:
Mainly bc there aren't enough AOA positions alone to cover DO students. If DOs did only the AOA match, a huge percentage of your class would be unmatched due to the lack of spots.
Click to expand...

There is not enough spots because they know a good portion will go acgme.
 
DermViser said:
It's interesting that you would say this as you are currently on Probationary Status esp. as a Caribbean grad yourself currently who is looking for other options. No one here is trolling.

And the rape comment above is quite below the par, when there are actual REAL victims - in which rape truly destroys their lives.
Click to expand...

So you believe that rape is a huge problem yet you don't believe in the war on women nor recognize the extra societal struggles women go through?

Interesting.
 
DermViser said:
It's interesting that you would say this as you are currently on Probationary Status esp. as a Caribbean grad yourself currently who is looking for other options. No one here is trolling.

And the rape comment above is quite below the par, when there are actual REAL victims - in which rape truly destroys their lives.
Click to expand...

stop pretending to be caring of rape victims....you have been viciously and unnecessarily putting down DOs throughout this thread. You are the classic definition of a bully and a troll. You have no sympathy from us.
 
johnamo said:
Just saying... my DO school (enrollment ~300) has 46 affiliated programs and 2200+ AOA slots. This includes every specialty imaginable... and we match plenty of students in ACGME positions as well. DO is not a death sentence.
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No one said it was. But there are not enough D.O. residency slots for all D.O. students. And many of the ACGME slots that D.O. students do obtain are in non-competitive specialties. Many of the ACGME slots in competitive specialties are effectively closed off to D.O. students and those premeds who are deciding between the MD vs. DO route should know that reality, whether it's right or wrong.
 
RogueUnicorn said:
no not really, even DoctorSynthesis is more my peer than you probably ever be
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say that to the American patient who will only see MD behind my name LOL. See why your superior MD logic fails?
 
SkipJunior said:
say that to the American patient who will only see MD behind my name LOL. See why your superior MD logic fails?
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good thing i never subscribed to that logic and i challenge you to prove that i did.

and bro, what patient.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
So you believe that rape is a huge problem yet you don't believe in the war on women nor recognize the extra societal struggles go through?

Interesting.
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No, I don't think a campaign meme of "War on Women" used for political gain to win elections is on par with the seriousness of rape. Nice non sequitur though.
 
DermViser said:
No, I don't think a campaign meme of "War on Women" used for political gain to win elections is on par with the seriousness of rape. Nice non sequitur though.
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Unprocessed rape kits is part of the war on women. The point isnt to win elections it is to help women achieve equality (pay for example).
 
SkipJunior said:
say that to the American patient who will only see MD behind my name LOL. See why your superior MD logic fails?
Click to expand...
How will an American patient see the MD behind your name, if you're not practicing?
 
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