What fields are more of an "uphill battle" for DO's?

[cryhavoc]

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I always see this pop up.

Could someone give a list of the "uphill ones" and a list of the ones where there is a relatively equal chance for a DO/MD.

I want to see where the fields I am interested in fall, without revealing which they are so I don't get biased reassurances.

Obviously I'll still go for it if I get into a DO school and it is on the uphill list, but it would be nice to know.

Thanks.

 

[baxt1412]

relatively equal for all if you have good scores. why are there so many threads in the last few days about this?

 

[costales]

Dentistry.

 

[cryhavoc]

relatively equal for all if you have good scores. why are there so many threads in the last few days about this?

Threads inspire other threads.

 

[JimmyB123]

There's a good post by cliquesh which covers this

 

[cryhavoc]

There's a good post by cliquesh which covers this

Link please?

 

[Mad Jack]

Podiatry.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

ENT, Neurosurgery, radiation oncology, plastic surgery, and orthopedic surgery from what I have heard

EDIT: and derm

 

[DrEnderW]

relatively equal for all if you have good scores. why are there so many threads in the last few days about this?

Unfortunately, that is not even remotely close to being true for some specialties.

There are extremely limited AOA derm residencies, many of which do not provide adequate training or funding. There are zero plastics residencies, zero cardiothoracic surgery, zero vascular surgery, and only a few neurosurgery spots with programs closing every year. There are zero rad-onc residencies and an extremely low number of DOs match ACGME (the one that recently did I believe had 2 yrs of full time research with many pubs). There are very limited ENT, optho, and urology spots. The one competitive specialty that is relatively equal for DOs is ortho, as there are approx 100 spots (ratio of applicants to spots is relatively equal, although still lower). Furthermore, many of the most competitive AOA spots essentially require away rotations, limiting your chances at applying broadly. This is less true in the ACGME match.

No one is saying you can't do those things as a DO, but it may require extra work, a fellowship, etc. The opportunities are not equal, however. It is important to note that many fellowships such as GI, cardiology, or oncology are very competitive and it is important to come from a strong university IM program. The same can be said for plastics, peds, surg onc for GS fellowships. It is harder to match as an average DO compared to an average MD at academic university programs (but not at all impossible!).

If you want the above specialties, the most important thing you can do is recognize this discrepancy and come to work day 1. Don't pretend it doesn't exist. You will have to work harder than your DO classmates and your friends at MD programs. That is definition of an uphill battle...

 

[cryhavoc]

^Going off your post, as I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry and oncology, as a DO, I would need to be a very, very good student to have a shot at oncology?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

^Going off your post, as I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry and oncology, as a DO, I would need to be a very, very good student to have a shot at oncology?

You would have a good shot at all of them as a DO.

EM and Psych are their own residencies, whereas heme/onc is a fellowship after IM. Onc will be harder than EM or psych, but still very doable as a DO. The reasoning behind this is as DrEnder suggested which is prestige of academic centers. You have to be competitive to get IM fellowships, a lot of people (MD and DO alike) go for them, but they are still in the realms of possibility for sure.

 

[CharlieKelly]

Looks like Ophtho might be an uphill battle as well

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...matching-ophthalmology.1076064/#post-15952438

 

[DrMaximus]

You would have a good shot at all of them as a DO.

EM and Psych are their own residencies, whereas heme/onc is a fellowship after IM. Onc will be harder than EM or psych, but still very doable as a DO. The reasoning behind this is as DrEnder suggested which is prestige of academic centers. You have to be competitive to get IM fellowships, a lot of people (MD and DO alike) go for them, but they are still in the realms of possibility for sure.

I feel that psych isn't competitive at all in either system.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I feel that psych isn't competitive at all in either system.

Haha good point!

 

[DrEnderW]

^Going off your post, as I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry and oncology, as a DO, I would need to be a very, very good student to have a shot at oncology?

As was said by @Awesome Sauceome, all three of those are completely reasonable.

Psych is not at all competitive and an underrated specialty, IMO. EM is about average and is gaining interest because of the controllable hours. There's are tons and tons of DOs matching every year. Onc is doable as well. I want to reiterate that I don't mean that many specialties are unreasonable, just that some are uphill compared to what you'd experience as an average MD versus an average DO. Again, many DOs match into university IM programs that open up doors for fellowships, it is just something you need to target and plan for. For example, research and doing very well on the USMLE would be a start.

 

[cliquesh]

^Going off your post, as I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry and oncology, as a DO, I would need to be a very, very good student to have a shot at oncology?

Psychiatry and EM are open to DOs.

2/3 of DOs applying for acgme hematology/oncology fellowships match.

https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2014prgstats.html
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2014.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...gram-NRMP-Results-and-Data-SMS-2014-Final.pdf
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomessms2011.pdf

 

[wdoc]

Any of the competitive residencies are an "uphill battle" for MDs and DOs. If you put in hard work during medical school, and score well on your boards, you will have a decent shot at some of the most competitive residencies out there.

 

[cliquesh]

Any of the competitive residencies are an "uphill battle" for MDs and DOs. If you put in hard work during medical school, and score well on your boards, you will have a decent shot at some of the most competitive residencies out there.

Not true.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Not true.

You had a good post about it that explains this. I can't find it though.

 

[Imnotfromjersey]

ENT, Neurosurgery, ophthalmologist, urology, plastic surgery, dermatology, and radiation oncology.

you can still go for: anesthesiology, radiology, and ortho.

 

[NontradCA]

NMM/OMM

 

[IslandStyle808]

Any of the competitive residencies are an "uphill battle" for MDs and DOs. If you put in hard work during medical school, and score well on your boards, you will have a decent shot at some of the most competitive residencies out there.

Not true.

I suggest people read cliquish's posts on this (and even other residents). Has stories that will make you cringe. One's chances go up a considerable amount if one is an MD student.

 

[doctorold]

I suggest people read cliquish's posts on this (and even other residents). Has stories that will make you cringe. One's chances go up a considerable amount if one is an MD student.

Link?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Link?

The easiest comparison would be radiation oncology (ACGME programs only).

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

On page 115 it shows the percentage of programs willing to look at DO students. It shows it at 45% for DO they will look at and 100% for US MDs. This means an applicant has a 2.2 better chance of a program offering even an interview if the student is a US MD. So there is a less than 45% chance that a DO will match into a radiation oncology program.

Of course the other programs such as dermatology, orthopedic surgery, etc. have AOA residencies that gives DO graduates a better shot. However, if one wants a university program, they would need to apply to ACGME residencies (this would be difficult for DO students more so than MD). You are probably asking the question because you know that there are no official statistics to show the difference and you're right. However, it would be interesting to see the difference once the merger occurs and positions are tallied together.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

I hope the merger eliminates some of the DO hate at ACGME residencies... I'm honestly not interested in any of the competitive specialties, my dream is to practice EM at the moment, but it really sucks to feel so limited in options.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I hope the merger eliminates some of the DO hate at ACGME residencies... I'm honestly not interested in any of the competitive specialties, my dream is to practice EM at the moment, but it really sucks to feel so limited in options.

You should look at the above link for the survey. The amount of DOs interviewed has actually gone up! I think by almost 10% since 2012. So the future is looking bright for DOs in EM.

EDIT:

2012: EM 68% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

2014: EM 77% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

You should look at the above link for the survey. The amount of DOs interviewed has actually gone up! I think by almost 10% since 2012. So the future is looking bright for DOs in EM.

EDIT:

2012: EM 68% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

2014: EM 77% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

9% jumped in 2 years! Once 2020 rolls around I imagine that number will be in the 90s.

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

Oh no I know we have a very competitive shot for EM as DO students, I feel very comfortable in that regard, but I still have yet to experience a ton of different specialties, who knows if clinical rotations change my mind. I hate that feeling of being limited, but I'm happy I am so interested in EM because it seems to be a very achievable goal as a DO.

 

[cliquesh]

Oh no I know we have a very competitive shot for EM as DO students, I feel very comfortable in that regard, but I still have yet to experience a ton of different specialties, who knows if clinical rotations change my mind. I hate that feeling of being limited, but I'm happy I am so interested in EM because it seems to be a very achievable goal as a DO.

It's basically just the surgical subspecialties, derm, and rad/onc that problems for DOs. That still gives you a lot of options such as family, IM, anesthesia, Ob/gyn, general surgery, pediatrics, emergency medicine, PM&R, neurology, pathology, psychiatry, radiology, and ortho (AOA).

 

[Dr. Hopeful]

It's basically just the surgical subspecialties, derm, and rad/onc that problems for DOs. That still gives you a lot of options such as family, IM, anesthesia, Ob/gyn, general surgery, pediatrics, emergency medicine, PM&R, neurology, pathology, psychiatry, radiology, and ortho (AOA).

Yeah, and I would have no interest in derm or rad/onc whatsoever. Surgical subspecialties is something that I think would be an incredible occupation, but that's okay. I think I just need to keep reminding myself how fortunate I am to have gotten this far and stop whining. Thanks for the info!

 

[cliquesh]

Yeah, and I would have no interest in derm or rad/onc whatsoever. Surgical subspecialties is something that I think would be an incredible occupation, but that's okay. I think I just need to keep reminding myself how fortunate I am to have gotten this far and stop whining. Thanks for the info!

Word. It's kind of impossible to tell what you'll like until you try it. I thought about being a surgeon for a little bit, but then my clinical rotations destroyed my interest. I thought rad/onc was awesome, though.

 

[Bea5T]

The same ones that are uphill battles for mid to low level MD students

 

[Bea5T]

You should look at the above link for the survey. The amount of DOs interviewed has actually gone up! I think by almost 10% since 2012. So the future is looking bright for DOs in EM.

EDIT:

2012: EM 68% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

2014: EM 77% of programs interview DOs
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

By 2019+(assuming most people are applying this cycle and beyond) things will be equal as MD students have access to AOA programs

 

[Instatewaiter]

The same ones that are uphill battles for mid to low level MD students

Please support your post with some data that it's an uphill battle.

 

[DrEnderW]

The same ones that are uphill battles for mid to low level MD students

🙄

By 2019+(assuming most people are applying this cycle and beyond) things will be equal as MD students have access to AOA programs

What does that have to do with the percentage of programs interviewing DOs for certain specialties?

 

[AlteredScale]

First(Perhaps?) DO at Vanderbilt for Anesthesiology this year from PCOM!

 

[DrMaximus]

First(Perhaps?) DO at Vanderbilt for Anesthesiology this year from PCOM!

I'm doing everything that I can to add to that list.

 

[AlteredScale]

I'm doing everything that I can to add to that list.

Best of luck to you!!