what is your opinion?

[cluelessdr]

I recently got accepted to one of the most expensive dental schools in the nation (MDW-AZ). I was applying for the HPSP, but was disqualified because I have myopia. I am getting surgery to correct my vision and have a shot at the scholarship again, but I do not know if I should take another gap year and hope to get into cheaper dental school? If I take another gap year I will study for the DAT again and continue working as a DA. Of course I am not guaranteed this HPSP scholarship, but I dont want to go to Midwestern and end up not getting this scholarship and being in over 500k debt. I am lost and confused and every time I talk to a dentist they always say "go to the cheapest school." I am young (23 years old) so I dont really mind taking a gap year, but I just want to hear your thoughts, because most of you are either in dental school or are practicing. Thank you for your time and hope to get good advice from this post.

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[TanMan]

I recently got accepted to one of the most expensive dental schools in the nation (MDW-AZ). I was applying for the HPSP, but was disqualified because I have myopia. I am getting surgery to correct my vision and have a shot at the scholarship again, but I do not know if I should take another gap year and hope to get into cheaper dental school? If I take another gap year I will study for the DAT again and continue working as a DA. Of course I am not guaranteed this HPSP scholarship, but I dont want to go to Midwestern and end up not getting this scholarship and being in over 500k debt. I am lost and confused and every time I talk to a dentist they always say "go to the cheapest school." I am young (23 years old) so I dont really mind taking a gap year, but I just want to hear your thoughts, because most of you are either in dental school or are practicing. Thank you for your time and hope to get good advice from this post.

What is the price of a year of your life (during your prime years)? The opportunity costs are too high for the gap year and I'd look at it from this perspective: What is the value of the HPSP? Is the value of 4 years of HPSP > value of working 5 years in private practice - 500k+ debt? + 1 extra year of your prime youth. This is where many people would argue the value of debt free HPSP v. private practice earning potential. I think 5 years PP (average 5 year income, not starting, not the peak) - 500k+ debt will still be higher than 4 years HPSP (0 debt, low pay, I assume) if you are willing to work anywhere there is money to be made. If you live to be 50, you are sacrificing 2% of your life waiting.

 

[knewstance]

No guarantee you get in next year (either again to MWU or any other school) considering you have to list schools you've previously applied to and the outcome. I understand schools can see this as though you are not truly dedicated to becoming a dentist since you turned down an opportunity.

Also, two points, speaking of opportunity cost... 1)You will not make more than a first-year dentist during your gap year=1 year lost wages. 2)Dental schools (all of them) and interest rates get more expensive every year. Wait longer and you will have even more debt than you if you had just started now.

So maybe you save $100,000 maybe $200,000 by going to another school (assuming you do get in) you will have lost that much or more by waiting another year.

PS: If you really want to be a dentist, take the plunge now and go to school.

PSS: Have you tried asking for any type of scholarship? Do a little reading on how to the schools for money/discounts.

 

[deleted678432]

If you live to be 50, you are sacrificing 2% of your life waiting.

Optimistic prognosis doc.

 

[2TH MVR]

I agree with all of the above with a caveat. If your lifelong goal is to become a dentist ... then go to MWU. Become a dentist and plan on working hard to pay off your debt. Realize that most financial types will tell you this is not wise. There are other occupations that don't require so much school debt.
I don't see the point in waiting and possibly getting accepted to a cheaper school. No offense, but if MWU was your only acceptance .... well .....

A little off topic.
Lost opportunity costs? Not sure I've ever agreed with this concept. Not to sound poetic ... but life is a journey. Not a pre-planned agenda. No one knows when you'll be 6 feet under. If you worry about lost future financial opportunity costs .... well you just lost the opportunity to do something possibly wonderful and life changing. Just like those parents pushing their kids to graduate sooner. Why? So they can enter the workforce and lose a year to being a kid? Trust me. Entering the workforce can wait. You have the rest of your life for that fun.
If there is one thing I've learned in 56 years. Time moves on and there is no predicting the future.

-Forrest Gump

 

[Wingie]

Which one will you regret less? Are you going to regret having to repay more than half a million in loans?
Are you comfortable with the possibility of not getting in next cycle?
I don't think the opportunity cost of a year is a significant issue. Many people take gap years, do post bacs, masters, switch careers. Some retire at 40. Others are still working at 80.

 

[princeafrica]

PSS: Have you tried asking for any time of scholarship? Do a little reading on how to the schools for money/discounts.

When I interviewed at MWU, they kept reiterating that they don’t give out scholarship nor grants to any accepted students. They did say that after your first semester there are a few small scholarship that you can apply for but the whole school is gunning for those.

But OP, I would say you should go. There’s gonna be a red flag on your application next year when you list that you were accepted in the past but decided not to go. I don’t think cost of school will be the good enough answer for them to overlook that imo.

 

[TanMan]

Optimistic prognosis doc.

Assuming the worst and quality of life drops post-50. If I live my life like I'm going to die at 50, I learn to appreciate life a lot more during my more youthful times. You can never get your youth back.

I agree with all of the above with a caveat. If your lifelong goal is to become a dentist ... then go to MWU. Become a dentist and plan on working hard to pay off your debt. Realize that most financial types will tell you this is not wise. There are other occupations that don't require so much school debt.
I don't see the point in waiting and possibly getting accepted to a cheaper school. No offense, but if MWU was your only acceptance .... well .....

A little off topic.
Lost opportunity costs? Not sure I've ever agreed with this concept. Not to sound poetic ... but life is a journey. Not a pre-planned agenda. No one knows when you'll be 6 feet under. If you worry about lost future financial opportunity costs .... well you just lost the opportunity to do something possibly wonderful and life changing. Just like those parents pushing their kids to graduate sooner. Why? So they can enter the workforce and lose a year to being a kid? Trust me. Entering the workforce can wait. You have the rest of your life for that fun.
If there is one thing I've learned in 56 years. Time moves on and there is no predicting the future.

-Forrest Gump

I think this depends on what you're going to do during that gap year. Do you really have something meaningful to do during that year besides getting a headstart on your professional life. I regret starting out heading towards pharmacy then realizing how unprofitable and mindnumbingly boring the profession can be (I blame my youthful, impressionable self), then having to do a quick turnaround to apply to dentistry. Do I think it was a waste of time? Definitely, since that put me behind in terms of retirement. Maybe that extra year made me into a better person, if I were to rationalize it that way, but that year cost me a lot in terms of time and money.

Parents pushing their kids to graduate sooner is a different ballpark. Most of the time, those kids are deficient in demonstrating initiative because helicopter mom and dad was always there to push them. Entering the workforce, being an 8-5 employee earning 100k/year sounds appealing for most people, but even with that income, you're still a slave for 30+ years. I can sortof sympathize the frustration that this generation has, when they have been raised in an "everybody's a winner, here's a participation trophy" environment. You may not be able to predict the future and life may go on without you, but that doesn't mean that people should accept their fate. Anyway, point of this tangent is something I've always emphasized... you need money to live. If you made enough money that you don't have to worry about money anymore, then you are truly free to pursue whatever you want, without restriction. You are no longer a slave to wages and money. Now if SHTF, you should have probably invested in guns, ammo, water filtration, survival gear, off-grid electricity generation, etc...I got a midlife crisis SUV a few days ago, and that's the beauty of having financial freedom. You can do whatever the hell you want without really batting an eye or worrying that you're draining your savings.

 

[2TH MVR]

I got a midlife crisis SUV

Never heard of a midlife crisis SUV, but this would do.

 

[Cold Front]

I am young (23 years old) so I dont really mind taking a gap year, but I just want to hear your thoughts, because most of you are either in dental school or are practicing. Thank you for your time and hope to get good advice from this post.

The benefits of a gap year:

- You learn and develop more social skills. Most early 20’s dental students are practically high schoolers, immature and have low social skills (in my experience).

- You get to live and enjoy 1 year in your 20’s without a major stress. Life expectancy in the US is mid to late 70’s.

- You can apply to a cheaper school by applying very early in the application cycle. After going through the process once before, you can plan better and increase your odds.

- You will be starting dental school more relaxed after the gap year.



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[charlestweed]

OP, how do you plan to support yourself during the the gap year? Getting a part time job? It can't be fun spending a gap year without $$$. I remember when I had to wait 3 long summer months before starting dental school....it was boring. To kill time, I got a F/T busboy job at Disneyland.

My parents didn't push me to finish school on time but I could see the disappointment in their eyes when I told them that my GPA wasn't good enough for med school. I felt very bad because my parents had worked so hard so we could have a brighter future than theirs. When I told my dad that I switched to dentistry, he became so excited. My dad even took time off from work to drive me to all the local dental school (UCSF, LLU, USC) interviews. I am very lucky to have 2 very amazing parents.

Another reason I hate having a gap year is the loss of focus on reapplying. When I didn't get into ortho after the first cycle, I decided to do a year of GPR because I was afraid that making too money from working in a private practice would cause me to lose the focus on reapplying for ortho. Being in an academic environment also made things easier (easier to obtain the LORs, transcripts etc) for me to reapply. Another reason for doing GPR was endo was my backup option in case I didn't get accepted to ortho.

I know it's a tough decision for you to make since $500k debt is not a small amount. It's easier for me to say not to take a gap because I didn't have to take out that much student loan. Good luck with your decision!

 

[Dental2347]

You should list pro's and con's of both ways and then decide which is more appropriate for you.

 

[TanMan]

Never heard of a midlife crisis SUV, but this would do.

View attachment 247932

Close enough. I got a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Maybe I should post a pic just to irritate @Shunwei, .

Assuming the worst and quality of life drops post-50. If I live my life like I'm going to die at 50, I learn to appreciate life a lot more during my more youthful times. You can never get your youth back.

I think this depends on what you're going to do during that gap year. Do you really have something meaningful to do during that year besides getting a headstart on your professional life. I regret starting out heading towards pharmacy then realizing how unprofitable and mindnumbingly boring the profession can be (I blame my youthful, impressionable self), then having to do a quick turnaround to apply to dentistry. Do I think it was a waste of time? Definitely, since that put me behind in terms of retirement. Maybe that extra year made me into a better person, if I were to rationalize it that way, but that year cost me a lot in terms of time and money.

Parents pushing their kids to graduate sooner is a different ballpark. Most of the time, those kids are deficient in demonstrating initiative because helicopter mom and dad was always there to push them. Entering the workforce, being an 8-5 employee earning 100k/year sounds appealing for most people, but even with that income, you're still a slave for 30+ years. I can sortof sympathize the frustration that this generation has, when they have been raised in an "everybody's a winner, here's a participation trophy" environment. You may not be able to predict the future and life may go on without you, but that doesn't mean that people should accept their fate. Anyway, point of this tangent is something I've always emphasized... you need money to live. If you made enough money that you don't have to worry about money anymore, then you are truly free to pursue whatever you want, without restriction. You are no longer a slave to wages and money. Now if SHTF, you should have probably invested in guns, ammo, water filtration, survival gear, off-grid electricity generation, etc...I got a midlife crisis SUV a few days ago, and that's the beauty of having financial freedom. You can do whatever the hell you want without really batting an eye or worrying that you're draining your savings.

Oddly enough, I'm quoting myself because I wanted to expand on something that came to me. Just as people have criticized me of setting the expectations of future colleagues too high, I would like to say that we may be setting the bar too low as well. When has the standard of success in our profession become debt = 0? Although 0 net worth (assuming no assets, all debts paid) is better than negative net worth, isn't it depressing that the standard of success has become debt = 0? Think about that when it comes to your mindset as a professional. There's that saying, don't forget to look up, instead of down at the ground (or something to that extent) - I don't know who said this, but I remember something to that extent. If you set your standards so low, you can't help but only think within your bubble OR people set their expectations so low, that no matter the outcome, they can't be disappointed.

 

[TanMan]

Never heard of a midlife crisis SUV, but this would do.

View attachment 247932

Excuse the vehicle, rain and dusty storms today. To reemphasize the point, work hard and make money sooner!

 

[2TH MVR]

Excuse the vehicle, rain and dusty storms today. To reemphasize the point, work hard and make money sooner!

View attachment 249001 View attachment 249002

Very nice.

 

[wengerout]

You should go to school.

 

[questionasker1071]

You could definitely get the three year scholarship to a branch while you’re in school and not have to sacrifice the extra year but only have a 3 year repayment. Pay is 90k avg after you grad for GP. I’m doing the 4 year navy at Utah.

 

[ESPN907]

You could definitely get the three year scholarship to a branch while you’re in school and not have to sacrifice the extra year but only have a 3 year repayment. Pay is 90k avg after you grad for GP. I’m doing the 4 year navy at Utah.

This^ go to school, apply for the 3 year scholarship, if you’re really worried apply to the 3 year NHSC as well.

 

[questionasker1071]

This^ go to school, apply for the 3 year scholarship, if you’re really worried apply to the 3 year NHSC as well.

There’s almost no chance you don’t get the three year for at least one of those. Army gives out a ton of them and if you have 20 dat you’re guaranteed entry pretty much.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

There’s almost no chance you don’t get the three year for at least one of those.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Last I heard, the Navy's HPSP acceptance rate was around 50%. Also, big cuts are slated for military medicine. (Downsizing) When the cuts are made, the Navy Dental Corps will be around 140% manned. Essentially they need to get people out. One of the biggest ways this will happen is cutting the number of HPSP slots. Will they have fewer applicants all of a sudden? No. So, the HPSP will become that much more competitive. The other proposed mechanisms to thin the Dental Corps I heard floated by a Navy big wig are reduced specialty training opportunities and the elimination of retention bonuses.

Big Hoss

 

[questionasker1071]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Last I heard, the Navy's HPSP acceptance rate was around 50%. Also, big cuts are slated for military medicine. (Downsizing) When the cuts are made, the Navy Dental Corps will be around 140% manned. Essentially they need to get people out. One of the biggest ways this will happen is cutting the number of HPSP slots. Will they have fewer applicants all of a sudden? No. So, the HPSP will become that much more competitive. The other proposed mechanisms to thin the Dental Corps I heard floated by a Navy big wig are reduced specialty training opportunities and the elimination of retention bonuses.

Big Hoss

This applies to all branches. The AF eliminated Hpsp spots my recruiter told me. My phone interviewer for the navy said they were only downsizing the entire dental Corp by 10% though. I’m not sure how they will
Downsize but I heard that meant they will
Actually be understaffed and result in more deployment opportunity.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

This applies to all branches. The AF eliminated Hpsp spots my recruiter told me. My phone interviewer for the navy said they were only downsizing the entire dental Corp by 10% though. I’m not sure how they will
Downsize but I heard that meant they will
Actually be understaffed and result in more deployment opportunity.

The Dental Corps was already over-manned from a numbers perspective. This just makes it even worse. The military will not be "understaffed," as the plan going forward with the Defense Health Agency takeover seems to be to send service members, and especially their families, to civilian providers where available. And...that 10% total force reduction translates into a 40% reduction in areas like San Diego. They can't cut dentists assigned overseas, to ships, or with the Marines, so the cuts are concentrated non-operational stateside. Given this, you are correct that you'll likely see more "deployment opportunity." This is what military medicine should be, as a military healthcare officer you should expect to be treated like your line officer counterparts. You've got plenty of people with 10+ years of service who've never deployed once. If that's the case, why does the military need them when patients can be seen out in town? Big changes are coming to military healthcare, and no one is certain what exactly the future holds.

Big Hoss